Tax lien filed in 2005, paid in 2010, killing me on CBCInnovis CR for mortgage

[leavingbrooklyn]

Hi everyone... first post so let me know if I miss any important details and thanks in advance.

 

I'm in the process of applying for a mortgage with my wife for our first home. Her scores are good (787/792/794) but our joint application was denied because of my score as reported by CBC Innovis. They pegged me at:

 

BEACON 5.0 SCORE +652 EFX01

CLASSIC 04 SCORE +688 TRU01

FAIR ISAAC SCORE 2 +661 XPN01

 

By contrast myFICO yields:

 

Experian 709

Equifax 705

Transunion 704

 

We are moving to the San Francisco Bay Area (so expensive...) and are looking to qualify for mortgage above the conforming limits. The first lender we've spoken to used CBC and told us I would need a 700 to be approved.

 

The major difference between the reports I can pull and the CBC report is a tax lien filed by the District of Columbia in 2005 (for the 1999 tax year). I had moved around a lot in the mid-2000s and didn't get the notice for this lien until 2010, when I paid it in full (around $3000). That lien doesn't show up in any of the reports I pull (from myFICO or from the the CRA websites). However, I have a copy of the CBC report, and it does show up there, with a LACT date of 01/2010.

 

I guess that leaves me with two main questions:

 

1. Is there anything I can (realistically) do to convince CBC and/or the lender to discount this particular event?

2. Will other lenders use a report similar to the CBC report, such that no mortgage lender will view me as having a 700+ score?

 

Any help on either of these questions very much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[cv91915]

I'm interested in your thread, so I'm going to follow it.

 

CBC acts as a CRA under the FCRA, so they have a department that handles consumer disputes (and answers questions about the reports they sell to lenders): http://www.cbcinnovis.com/consumer_relations.html

 

Which bureau is reporting the public record?

 

Is the PR listed as a negative factor on your score disclosure? If so, the score for which bureau(s)?

[leavingbrooklyn]

I'm interested in your thread, so I'm going to follow it.

 

CBC acts as a CRA under the FCRA, so they have a department that handles consumer disputes (and answers questions about the reports they sell to lenders): http://www.cbcinnovis.com/consumer_relations.html

 

Which bureau is reporting the public record?

 

Is the PR listed as a negative factor on your score disclosure? If so, the score for which bureau(s)?

 

All three bureaus are reporting the PR. TU and EXP report it as "TAX LIEN RELEASED FILED−03/05 LACT−01/10" and EFX says, "LIEN RELEASED FILED−03/05 LACT−01/10"

 

All three bureaus also list it as a negative factor: "DEROGATORY PUBLIC RECORD OR COLLECTION FILED"

[Occam]

Full Factual report?

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=473838

 

And here's a different view from MarvBear:

 

MarvBear

Administrator

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:15 PM

To just answer the original poster's question regarding a Full Factual Credit Report...............

A Full Factual Credit Report is a manually produced credit report from at least two (2) of the major credit reporting entities. All of the information contained in the report/file is manually verified, including tradeline information, line by line. Generally they take around 3 + days to produce and are quite expensive to produce and prepare. You don't need a special boutique credit agency to prepare one, they are available via Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion, if the data subscriber wants to pay the price.

Information that has been deleted from your credit report/file, will not be present on a Full Factual Credit Report.
Information that has naturally aged off of your credit report/file, will not be present on a Full Factual Credit Report.

I generally personally use the term "credit report" and "credit file" interchangeably to mean the same thing, when in technical fact they do not. I view that as a whole separate discussion,

MarvBear
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Edited July 10, 2014 by Occam

[leavingbrooklyn]

 

Full Factual report?

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=473838

 

 

 

Interesting. But at the same time I have to wonder: Would you really need something like a Full Factual to uncover this? Why doesn't this show up on the reports I pull from myFICO and the CRAs? After all, the Last Activity (payment in 2010) is a lot less than seven years old.

[leavingbrooklyn]

After spending a bit more time with my reports this afternoon, I have to revise my original post: The PRs do in fact show up on the reports from myFICO. They just don't seem to have the same impact on the myFICO score as they do on the scores coming from CBC. I don't know the ins and outs of how the scoring models work, but I wasn't expecting to see someone like CBC report such a drastically different set of numbers from what I get from myFICO.

 

Maybe it comes down to this question: Are all lenders evaluating me for a jumbo mortgage going to get a report with this low score? Or do I just need to find a lender who is going to get a report that more closely matches the myFICO scores?

[cv91915]

The FICO scores from myFICO.com and those used for mortgage lending are different score models.

 

CBC has nothing to do with your score... the three bureaus provide the data, FICO scores the data and CBC just packages it all up and sends it off to the mortgage lender. I say "just," but there is a fair amount of work involved in merging all of that info so it's easily readably by a human.

Edited July 10, 2014 by cv91915

[cashnocredit]

After spending a bit more time with my reports this afternoon, I have to revise my original post: The PRs do in fact show up on the reports from myFICO. They just don't seem to have the same impact on the myFICO score as they do on the scores coming from CBC. I don't know the ins and outs of how the scoring models work, but I wasn't expecting to see someone like CBC report such a drastically different set of numbers from what I get from myFICO.

 

Maybe it comes down to this question: Are all lenders evaluating me for a jumbo mortgage going to get a report with this low score? Or do I just need to find a lender who is going to get a report that more closely matches the myFICO scores?

 

Is the CBC score FICO? You mention "scores." did CBC provide 3 scores? If so they provided a consolidated, 3 CRA report with standard FICO 04 scores and should be close to My FICO though those are now FICO08 type scores. What exactly were the CBC scores?

 

Duh, I see he listed both sets in the OP. Must be model differences.

Edited July 10, 2014 by cashnocredit

[cashnocredit]

The FICO scores from myFICO.com and those used for mortgage lending are different score models.

 

CBC has nothing to do with your score... the three bureaus provide the data, FICO scores the data and CBC just packages it all up and sends it off to the mortgage lender.

 

 

The FICO scores from myFICO.com and those used for mortgage lending are different score models.

 

CBC has nothing to do with your score... the three bureaus provide the data, FICO scores the data and CBC just packages it all up and sends it off to the mortgage lender.

 

I thought mortgage scores used standard FICO scores? Doesn't MyFico also use standard scores, not credit card enhanced scores? Models could, and probably are, different. Mortage underwriters typically still use 04 FICOs.

 

EQ used to provide Beacon 5.0 FICO scores until the "upgraded"

Edited July 10, 2014 by cashnocredit

[MarvBear]

Evidently you reside in an area where your equifax file is owned by CBC which is a regional credit reporting agency that owns the rights to your equifax file. The information should still be consistent with their parent

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[cv91915]

 

The FICO scores from myFICO.com and those used for mortgage lending are different score models.

 

CBC has nothing to do with your score... the three bureaus provide the data, FICO scores the data and CBC just packages it all up and sends it off to the mortgage lender.

 

I thought mortgage scores used standard FICO scores? Doesn't MyFico also use standard scores, not credit card enhanced scores? Models could, and probably are, different. Mortage underwriters typically still use 04 FICOs.

 

 

When we applied for the mortgage we closed three weeks ago I was expecting to see at least one of my scores over 800.

 

From the credit score disclosures earlier in the process:

 

772 Source: Equifax BEACON 5.0 Date: 05/22/2014

775 Source: TransUnion FICO Classic 04 Date: 05/22/2014

786 Source: Experian FICO-II Date: 05/22/2014

I started a thread but there wasn't much discussion. http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=529152

 

 

 

 

[moosetracks]

I would file IRS form 12277 and get the lien withdrawn, once off all your reports have them re score them.

[cv91915]

 

 

The FICO scores from myFICO.com and those used for mortgage lending are different score models.

 

CBC has nothing to do with your score... the three bureaus provide the data, FICO scores the data and CBC just packages it all up and sends it off to the mortgage lender.

 

I thought mortgage scores used standard FICO scores? Doesn't MyFico also use standard scores, not credit card enhanced scores? Models could, and probably are, different. Mortage underwriters typically still use 04 FICOs.

 

 

When we applied for the mortgage we closed three weeks ago I was expecting to see at least one of my scores over 800.

 

From the credit score disclosures earlier in the process:

 

772 Source: Equifax BEACON 5.0 Date: 05/22/2014

775 Source: TransUnion FICO Classic 04 Date: 05/22/2014

786 Source: Experian FICO-II Date: 05/22/2014

I started a thread but there wasn't much discussion. http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=529152

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2014 by cv91915

[leavingbrooklyn]

I would file IRS form 12277 and get the lien withdrawn, once off all your reports have them re score them.

 

Isn't that just for federal tax liens? This one is from the District of Columbia. I haven't found any good info on removing liens from state/city taxes.

[cashnocredit]

 

I would file IRS form 12277 and get the lien withdrawn, once off all your reports have them re score them.

 

Isn't that just for federal tax liens? This one is from the District of Columbia. I haven't found any good info on removing liens from state/city taxes.

 

 

Yes, sadly it's federal only.

[moosetracks]

 

 

I would file IRS form 12277 and get the lien withdrawn, once off all your reports have them re score them.

 

Isn't that just for federal tax liens? This one is from the District of Columbia. I haven't found any good info on removing liens from state/city taxes.

 

 

Yes, sadly it's federal only.

 

 

Ahh ok, DC filed it, when I saw DC I just assumed the feds. I would still check with DC authorities to see if there is a way to get it withdrawn.

[leavingbrooklyn]

Just an update here for future readers. What I didn't know when I posted this (but what's become clear with further research) is that mortgage underwriters often use very different scoring models (as suggested above) from other creditors. I don't have the expertise to go into the nuances of how/why these models are different, but it gets to the crux of my question about why CBCInnovis returned such a different result from myFICO. As for the tax lien, going back through my records I discovered a discrepancy with the public records. While DC shows a LACT date of 2010, it turns out that I actually paid in full in 2007. I'm currently disputing with the CRAs (I'm 99% certain that the DC government will not be able to effectively update their records and notify the CRAs).

[shifter]

why CBCInnovis returned such a different result from myFICO

as we said, MF is FICO 08 and mortgages use FICO 04.

[cv91915]

Just an update here for future readers. What I didn't know when I posted this (but what's become clear with further research) is that mortgage underwriters often use very different scoring models (as suggested above) from other creditors. I don't have the expertise to go into the nuances of how/why these models are different, but it gets to the crux of my question about why CBCInnovis returned such a different result from myFICO. As for the tax lien, going back through my records I discovered a discrepancy with the public records. While DC shows a LACT date of 2010, it turns out that I actually paid in full in 2007. I'm currently disputing with the CRAs (I'm 99% certain that the DC government will not be able to effectively update their records and notify the CRAs).

 

Thanks for the update. Good luck with your dispute and your mortgage pursuit.

[cashnocredit]

Just an update here for future readers. What I didn't know when I posted this (but what's become clear with further research) is that mortgage underwriters often use very different scoring models (as suggested above) from other creditors. I don't have the expertise to go into the nuances of how/why these models are different, but it gets to the crux of my question about why CBCInnovis returned such a different result from myFICO. As for the tax lien, going back through my records I discovered a discrepancy with the public records. While DC shows a LACT date of 2010, it turns out that I actually paid in full in 2007. I'm currently disputing with the CRAs (I'm 99% certain that the DC government will not be able to effectively update their records and notify the CRAs).

PR's are not handled the same way as collection accounts.. DC doesn't update CRA records. It's the CRA's primary responsibility to verify public records.