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Proceed with AMEX Financial Review?


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Deductions aren't generally an issue as they know they are paper losses.

 

I have no idea where that number comes from. I don't think I can deduct my tuition payments, so either I am reading it wrong and it is being counted as income or it's a loss. It just says "net capital gain/loss....-38,116" which is about what I paid in tuition last year. I don't know where else that number could've come from, but I don't understand why it has been taken as a loss. Of course, I don't know where the short term gains of roughly $15,000 came from either.

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Deductions aren't generally an issue as they know they are paper losses.

 

I have no idea where that number comes from. I don't think I can deduct my tuition payments, so either I am reading it wrong and it is being counted as income or it's a loss. It just says "net capital gain/loss....-38,116" which is about what I paid in tuition last year. I don't know where else that number could've come from, but I don't understand why it has been taken as a loss. Of course, I don't know where the short term gains of roughly $15,000 came from either.

 

 

Net capital loss is just the difference between the gains and losses produced during that year as a result of equity sales in that year. Basically, it means your portfolio lost money apart from funds withdrawn which are a separate item. You could also have unrealized capital gains (or losses) from equities that were held but not sold during the year. These could be either plus or minus and could well exceed the realized losses. Probably a good idea to go over the meaning of the various amounts on your portfolio statements with your family CPA. It's important in the longer run that you wrap your head around this.

 

Also, most law programs cover at least a bit of accounting and finance so studying in your own holdings will help when you take those courses.

 

BTW, the most important number to Amex is the net current cash value of the portfolio. Capital losses and gains will vary each year in either direction though up over the long run.

Edited by cashnocredit
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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

 

At this point... do you care? I feel for you, I wouldnt go through half of that to maintain a credit product that makes money for someone else.

 

This is akin to Target wanting to know if your actually middle class or higher before you enter their store.

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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

 

At this point... do you care? I feel for you, I wouldnt go through half of that to maintain a credit product that makes money for someone else.

 

This is akin to Target wanting to know if your actually middle class or higher before you enter their store.

 

 

I mean, I'd hate to have multiple accounts closed after just a month of being open for no reason outside of AMEX deciding that they only want to see my taxable income, which was never specified on the application. Otherwise, no, I already have a Chase card on its way so I can begin a relationship with them.

 

I just don't want to do a lot of damage to my credit score over something this silly. But I guess in the long run, it won't have that big of an impact, and only 1 line of credit will be closed as the rest are charge cards.

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Amex still has this status symbol allure to them. I'm over it... a card is a card.. no matter what name is on it

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

I suppose so but these days at most places you would use your card no one sees it. About the only type of place I can think of where your card is seen is restauraunts which are also hotspots for having your card info stolen.

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Amex still has this status symbol allure to them. I'm over it... a card is a card.. no matter what name is on it

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

I suppose so but these days at most places you would use your card no one sees it. About the only type of place I can think of where your card is seen is restauraunts which are also hotspots for having your card info stolen.

 

 

 

Agreed, I forget who it was.. but someone on here had a "prestige" (black card or the like) type card.. he said he stopped using it after the numbers where lifted off it for the 4th time!

 

I felt the same way about amex, until I had it.. I never use it.

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It's not so much that I even care about AMEX as a prestige symbol. I've had a card with them since I was in high school and I mainly want to avoid having these accounts closed so early into using them. I even told the rep I'd be fine with a massive credit reduction over outright closure.

 

I wish I had also sent in a 1041 for my trust fund, but I don't think they'd even accept that or go through the process of viewing it.

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It's call skimming and it has gotten very sophisicated. The new skimming devices are tiny and easily hidden. I think most people here keep a close eye on their accounts but most people only look at their statements and the scammers can do a tremendous amount of damage within a billing cycle.

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It's not so much that I even care about AMEX as a prestige symbol. I've had a card with them since I was in high school and I mainly want to avoid having these accounts closed so early into using them. I even told the rep I'd be fine with a massive credit reduction over outright closure.

 

I wish I had also sent in a 1041 for my trust fund, but I don't think they'd even accept that or go through the process of viewing it.

 

I wouldn't worry about it much, with your current limit I don't think they will do much more than verify things. As I recall once you send in the info they complete these in a short amount of time.

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It's not so much that I even care about AMEX as a prestige symbol. I've had a card with them since I was in high school and I mainly want to avoid having these accounts closed so early into using them. I even told the rep I'd be fine with a massive credit reduction over outright closure.

 

I wish I had also sent in a 1041 for my trust fund, but I don't think they'd even accept that or go through the process of viewing it.

 

I wouldn't worry about it much, with your current limit I don't think they will do much more than verify things. As I recall once you send in the info they complete these in a short amount of time.

 

 

She told me she'd probably be back in touch this weekend.

 

I'm not too worried. I just wish I knew how to read my returns. I reported like something like $15K of income because I really didn't know, and my returns list $12K or so of ST capital gains but a net loss of $38,000. I just don't want them to accuse me of lying on my application. I'm probably worrying more than I should as it is.

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I think the overall moral of this story is - always be in charge of your own finances, even while you're in school. I've always filed my own taxes - can tell you exactly how much I owe, how much I'll get back, etc.

 

Relying on third-parties for tax/financial assistance leads to issues like this. I'm sure you can't wait to get out of college, and cut those strings.

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I think the overall moral of this story is - always be in charge of your own finances, even while you're in school. I've always filed my own taxes - can tell you exactly how much I owe, how much I'll get back, etc.

 

Relying on third-parties for tax/financial assistance leads to issues like this. I'm sure you can't wait to get out of college, and cut those strings.

 

The problem is, I have accounts all over the place where parents are custodians. I used to have a separate college account with over $250K in it, but we lost a lot of it during the financial crisis of 2008, so my trust left to me by my grandmother has paid for it since. I really have little idea about where all the money comes from, but just that it's there, and even less about how it is reported on my taxes. I am ready to start working this fall and make my own money and me in control of all my finances, absolutely.

 

Of course, I never expected to have to jump through this many hoops for a credit card company. I just thought if you paid your bills on time and in full, you'd never be given any trouble.

Edited by zorbachs
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I think the overall moral of this story is - always be in charge of your own finances, even while you're in school. I've always filed my own taxes - can tell you exactly how much I owe, how much I'll get back, etc.

 

Relying on third-parties for tax/financial assistance leads to issues like this. I'm sure you can't wait to get out of college, and cut those strings.

 

The problem is, I have accounts all over the place where parents are custodians. I used to have a separate college account with over $250K in it, but we lost a lot of it during the financial crisis of 2008, so my trust left to me by my grandmother has paid for it since. I really have little idea about where all the money comes from, but just that it's there, and even less about how it is reported on my taxes. I am ready to start working this fall and make my own money and me in control of all my finances, absolutely.

 

Of course, I never expected to have to jump through this many hoops for a credit card company. I just thought if you paid your bills on time and in full, you'd never be given any trouble.

 

The reality is that you're in a gloriously stable financial position - and if they don't realize that - well - that's their loss.

 

Goodluck with school. I hope you become one of the 'good lawyers' :-)

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Certainly. I am lucky to have made it through school debt free. I'll work as hard as I can to use my education to the fullest. Don't worry, I'll be a 'good lawyer.' :D

 

And if they do cut me loose, it's fine. Chase will certainly do business with me. The world will keep on turning.

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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

That's odd. The equities market has been a rocket since 2009. There's a reason for everything. You should get the detailed end of year statements and transaction records and go through them. Having a capital loss every year is weird outside of things like real property depreciation but even that isn't called a capital loss. Withdrawals aren't capital losses. You are also limited to around 3k/y in deducting capital losses but you can carry them forward against future gains.

 

Something odd here.

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Of course, I never expected to have to jump through this many hoops for a credit card company. I just thought if you paid your bills on time and in full, you'd never be given any trouble.

 

 

Not after the 2008 financial crisis!

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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

That's odd. The equities market has been a rocket since 2009. There's a reason for everything. You should get the detailed end of year statements and transaction records and go through them. Having a capital loss every year is weird outside of things like real property depreciation but even that isn't called a capital loss. Withdrawals aren't capital losses. You are also limited to around 3k/y in deducting capital losses but you can carry them forward against future gains.

 

Something odd here.

 

 

The net losses each year range from -43K in 2011 to -27K in 2010. I know my trust has appreciated each year because I get the statement each month. It has stayed nearly the same despite the $40K worth I withdraw from it each year.

 

I have no idea what to make of the capital gains section of my returns, where the $15K of ST gains comes from or where the losses come from, but I am just assuming it's from tuition payments. No idea where else it could come from, and I know my trust isn't depreciating like that every year. I didn't make nearly that in wages to be able to lose that much a year!

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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

 

At this point... do you care? I feel for you, I wouldnt go through half of that to maintain a credit product that makes money for someone else.

 

This is akin to Target wanting to know if your actually middle class or higher before you enter their store.

I completely agree with you. I am in with Amex and I'm excited about it. But I've already accepted that if they come at me with their tax transcript request, I'll reply with a written no and a closure of the accounts. Not jumping through hoops for a credit card. Mortgage? Yes. Car? Maybe. Credit card? No.
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I took financial accounting in college and corporate, federal income, partnership and advanced federal income in law school. We never learned how to read a basic tax return. I understand the terms, but I have no idea where the numbers come from, as I only have direct involvement in a small portfolio I invested my summer earnings years ago.

 

Depending on what AMEX actually looks at, some forms on the IRS website showed my trust along with my personal returns, but it wasn't on the 1040. It just showed the net capital gains/losses, I guess from the trust, because I don't know of any other accounts I have where I could have $38k of losses or gains. I seemed to have a net loss every year dating back to 2009 about equal to my tuition and living expenses payments during undergrad and then law school. Then I would have deductions that brought my adjusted income to a very low number. I did send the trust statement with the cash value to AMEX, but again, I have no idea if they will even look at it or consider it.

 

My point is, I have no clue what AMEX will do with those numbers.

 

At this point... do you care? I feel for you, I wouldnt go through half of that to maintain a credit product that makes money for someone else.

 

This is akin to Target wanting to know if your actually middle class or higher before you enter their store.

I completely agree with you. I am in with Amex and I'm excited about it. But I've already accepted that if they come at me with their tax transcript request, I'll reply with a written no and a closure of the accounts. Not jumping through hoops for a credit card. Mortgage? Yes. Car? Maybe. Credit card? No.

 

 

Same here. The more and more customers they lose to 4506-T's, maybe they will think harder about that as a strategy.

 

But as long as they have this silly prestige misnomer about them.. people will still try and bend over backwards for their product.

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The more and more customers they lose to 4506-T's, maybe they will think harder about that as a strategy.

it's part of their risk mitigation, which is some of the most complex in the industry.

 

would you rather deal with Chase that blindly closes peoples' accounts based on employee Google searches

 

or Amex that has a very complex, but predictable process of analyzing risk?

 

to each his own.

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The more and more customers they lose to 4506-T's, maybe they will think harder about that as a strategy.

it's part of their risk mitigation, which is some of the most complex in the industry.

 

would you rather deal with Chase that blindly closes peoples' accounts based on employee Google searches

 

or Amex that has a very complex, but predictable process of analyzing risk?

 

to each his own.

I get where your coming from. Some are ok with it. Some aren't.

I'm not much of a chase fan either.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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I'm fine with AMEX asking for income. I just feel their method is inaccurate and doesn't show the true paying power of an individual if you base it off a year or two year old tax returns. A lot can change in a year or two. Someone may have made $100,000 2 years ago and is unemployed now, yet they'd be cleared, while someone else may be making $100,000 and gainfully employed now, but was in school 2 years ago and had no income, and they would lose their card.

 

If they considered other investments, accounts, bank statements and the like, it would make more sense.

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Since I have both Amex and Chase cards and haven't had any sort of issue with ether of them I suspect these things are anomalies and not something most people see. My income varies all over the damned place since I'm retired and the only completely predictable part year to year is Social Security.

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