Proceed with AMEX Financial Review?

[zorbachs]

Hi all, I need some unbiased advice before proceeding here.

 

I recently opened a blue cash and used it regularly. I received a targeted 100,000 Platinum signup bonus offer a week or so ago and decided, given I had a trip out of the country coming up, to take advantage of it. I received it in the mail yesterday and was called yesterday afternoon by AMEX.

 

A little about me: I am a graduating law student about to take the bar in July. For the last 3 years, I have been a student and worked during the summers. To live on, I draw $40,000 a year from my family trust fund worth over $1 million. When I signed up for the blue and Plat cards, the applications asked me to list the income I had access to, so I listed it around $20K a year and my assets as over $500,000. I start work as an associate attorney in the late summer, but until then, I will not be making any income from work.

 

Today, I spoke with AMEX and they told me I was chosen for a financial review to see if I can keep up with my spending. I spend no more than $300/month on my BC card and have no balance and pay in full monthly. The woman told me that AMEX considers my income only on my tax returns and requested them from 2013 and 2012. She seemed uninterested in the income I drew from my trust nor the other earner in my household that pays the bills. We did not file jointly.

 

I have 5 days to send in a 4056T form. The rep "promised" me that if it appeared that my account would be closed, she would tell me so I could do it ahead of time, but I'm not sure I trust her. She said they "rarely" close accounts, but they do adjust CL. My CL is only $3K on the card now. I already cancelled my Platinum card - I don't feel like paying $450 for a card they will surely question my expenses, but I am not sure what to do about the BC card.

 

My plan is, if I comply, to send the release in with a letter and copy of my trust account even though the rep said it didn't matter how much money I had in that. It can't hurt my cause. But part of me is simply ticked off and finished with AMEX. I fear that even if I pass this, I will face it again down the road.

 

Should I proceed? OR just cancel all my cards and, if I decide I want an AMEX down the road, reapply when I have 1-2 years of income on my tax return? I want to avoid my credit report getting dinged by having a "closed by issuer" on it when I was in good standing the duration of the account.

[BobWang]

Ironically, my answer in the Master Thread is #1040

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=462984&do=findComment&comment=5026587

[shifter]

Closed by issuer is overrated. Just go with it. It may not cause you any issues at all.

[zorbachs]

Closed by issuer is overrated. Just go with it. It may not cause you any issues at all.

I guess not. I have been told multiple things. I just don't want to have that on my credit report if I can avoid it. I have no idea my score, but I assume it's over 700 given I have been approved for this card and other Amex's in the past.

 

I suppose I am always going to be under the gun. If I fail FR, am I blacklisted from AMEX? Or will I just be subject to FR next time I apply?

[moosetracks]

No you are not on their BL, they just might require proof of income up front before they open any new accounts

[zorbachs]

No you are not on their BL, they just might require proof of income up front before they open any new accounts

 

Ok. I am fine with that. I am also fine providing them with all sources of my income now, but they aren't interested. Someone suggested I call the executive reconsideration line....but I haven't heard that these FRs are easily avoided.

[BobWang]

You could read the Master Thread

[Tyra]

 

Closed by issuer is overrated. Just go with it. It may not cause you any issues at all.

I guess not. I have been told multiple things. I just don't want to have that on my credit report if I can avoid it. I have no idea my score, but I assume it's over 700 given I have been approved for this card and other Amex's in the past.

 

I suppose I am always going to be under the gun. If I fail FR, am I blacklisted from AMEX? Or will I just be subject to FR next time I apply?

 

No blacklist. Does not affect your FICO either. You might as well play along with them.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Tyra

[zorbachs]

I'm going to fax the 4506T and the trust account information in tomorrow along with a letter. They may not read the letter or trust account printout, but it can't hurt to *try* to show them I do have enough income to cover my bills.

[stroked89coupe]

Let us know how it turns out for you.

[Shawnee]

It's really up to you. With those limits I doubt they would shut them down on you provided you do have income. Also, in the past even when AMEX has shut down accounts after FR some have reported they were noted closed by consumer. Every case is different though, when they pulled it on me I had many other accounts and chose not to give them access to my IRS transcripts.

[zorbachs]

It's really up to you. With those limits I doubt they would shut them down on you provided you do have income. Also, in the past even when AMEX has shut down accounts after FR some have reported they were noted closed by consumer. Every case is different though, when they pulled it on me I had many other accounts and chose not to give them access to my IRS transcripts.

 

I don't think I have any reported income over like $5K last year (from my summer internship and some stock trades). In 2012 it was even less because I worked pro bono assisting the poor with legal issues all summer. The trust just cuts me a check for $20,000 each semester and I use it to pay the tuition and other expenses.

 

I am going to include my trust and two bank accounts with my name on them. One bank account has over $70,000 in it; the other is pretty low and money is transferred into it to pay bills each month. AMEX didn't ask for these, but I am sending them anyway just because it cannot hurt. They can choose to ignore them. I doubt the rep I spoke to will be the one doing the full investigation.

 

It's really up to you. With those limits I doubt they would shut them down on you provided you do have income. Also, in the past even when AMEX has shut down accounts after FR some have reported they were noted closed by consumer. Every case is different though, when they pulled it on me I had many other accounts and chose not to give them access to my IRS transcripts.

 

I don't think I have any reported income over like $5K last year (from my summer internship and some stock trades). In 2012 it was even less because I worked pro bono assisting the poor with legal issues all summer. In retrospect, I guess I should've reported the $40,000 as income on my returns, but I never had an issue with credit card companies before. The trust just cuts me a check and I deposit it and use it to write tuition bills, expenses for other things, etc.

 

I am going to include my trust and two bank accounts with my name on them. One bank account has over $70,000 in it; the other is pretty low and money is transferred into it to pay bills each month. AMEX didn't ask for these, but I am sending them anyway just because it cannot hurt. They can choose to ignore them. I doubt the rep I spoke to will be the one doing the full investigation.

 

Edited May 8, 2014 by zorbachs

[encoder]

I think the process of getting a mortgage has numbed me to any sense of financial privacy. I, personally, don't care. I gave WF a 4506 for my mortgage, along with bank statements and pay stubs going back several months.

 

One advantage for using credit exclusively when possible: Even though I had to hand-over unredacted bank statements, all they see is, like:

 

1/1/14... Chase.... -$2000

1/2/14... Amex... -$4000

1/2/14... Citi... -$1000

etc

 

Versus the debit-card users who would be handing over everything.

[Shawnee]

If I'm not mistaken they're looking for income, at least that's what they were after during the big wave of FRs in 2005/6. I've been out of the loop for several years and their FR policies may well have changed. One thing is certain though, if you don't give them access with the 4506T they will shut the accounts down.

[Shawnee]

I think the process of getting a mortgage has numbed me to any sense of financial privacy. I, personally, don't care. I gave WF a 4506 for my mortgage, along with bank statements and pay stubs going back several months.

 

One advantage for using credit exclusively when possible: Even though I had to hand-over unredacted bank statements, all they see is, like:

 

1/1/14... Chase.... -$2000

1/2/14... Amex... -$4000

1/2/14... Citi... -$1000

etc

 

Versus the debit-card users who would be handing over everything.

The 4506T on a mortgage or other high value/risk account is common and accepted, last year I had to submit one for a card processing account. Wanting one for cards with total limits of well under $10k is a bit intrusive IMO.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Shawnee

[zorbachs]

I will give them access to my 4506T, I really don't care. I was honest when I told the rep it would show very little reported income as I have been in school for 3 years, and honest when I included part of the trust income I used for school as part of it. I wasn't trying to fool anyone, but I do have the ability to pay my bills.

 

I just think all of this over a card with a 3K CL with less than $400/per month spending is a bit much. Unless I am just not profitable and they want to get rid of me.

[cashnocredit]

I will give them access to my 4506T, I really don't care. I was honest when I told the rep it would show very little reported income as I have been in school for 3 years, and honest when I included part of the trust income I used for school as part of it. I wasn't trying to fool anyone, but I do have the ability to pay my bills.

 

I just think all of this over a card with a 3K CL with less than $400/per month spending is a bit much. Unless I am just not profitable and they want to get rid of me.

 

More likely than not declaring over 500k assets with a low income and low spending may trigger some sort of flag. It's an unusual combination and Amex looks for things that don't match. I would send them a copy of your trust statement just to prove your app was honest. Also, technically the CARD act requires creditors to consider both income and assets though it doesn't specify how these are weighted. You are just starting off and they would be nuts to close your accounts though you are unusual enough that it might require human intervention by someone with a clue. Since you have an account, that is possible.

Edited May 8, 2014 by cashnocredit

[moadikum]

I had a Blue Cash Card in the mid 2000s while a student, accruing student loans, with very little income (student jobs). I'm quite sure you'll make it through a financial review with a large trust to your name.

 

Man, I wish I had a trust...

[zorbachs]

In the event they DO close my account, would it be wise to apply for a Chase card now or just wait and see what the outcome is? Will this fiasco really hurt my credit score? I've heard great things about Chase, even that they are better than AMEX these days.

[moadikum]

In the event they DO close my account, would it be wise to apply for a Chase card now or just wait and see what the outcome is? Will this fiasco really hurt my credit score? I've heard great things about Chase, even that they are better than AMEX these days.

I'd apply for a Chase Freedom now - honestly, screw Amex if they're that sensitive to your income ($40k/year with a $3k limit is not extravagant by any means, and if they cancel your card, I'd be amazed). You'll probably find the Chase Freedom is more beneficial (the rotating categories, in my opinion, are the best).

[H4LO]

In the event they DO close my account, would it be wise to apply for a Chase card now or just wait and see what the outcome is? Will this fiasco really hurt my credit score? I've heard great things about Chase, even that they are better than AMEX these days.

 

Let's be honest here. Do you MS at all?

[cashnocredit]

 

In the event they DO close my account, would it be wise to apply for a Chase card now or just wait and see what the outcome is? Will this fiasco really hurt my credit score? I've heard great things about Chase, even that they are better than AMEX these days.

 

Let's be honest here. Do you MS at all?

 

 

His spend is $300/mo. Not a characteristic of M$.

[BobWang]

That'd be more like Manufactured SAVING for many.

[H4LO]

 

 

In the event they DO close my account, would it be wise to apply for a Chase card now or just wait and see what the outcome is? Will this fiasco really hurt my credit score? I've heard great things about Chase, even that they are better than AMEX these days.

 

Let's be honest here. Do you MS at all?

 

 

His spend is $300/mo. Not a characteristic of M$.

 

 

If not, I was to recommend the FIA AMEX.

Pretty good overall card.

[zorbachs]

I applied and was approved for the Freedom Chase tonight. They asked for TOTAL INCOME and specified that if you were supported by someone else or other sources, their income applied too. So I was golden there.

 

I have that in the event AMEX reduces my limit to something absurdly low or cancels my account altogether. I really have nothing to lose by complying now.

 

And if MS = manufactured spending, no, I'm a pretty frugal person when it comes to spending. I also heard some card companies don't like that, so I have never done anything like that before.