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jack1212

Confused on the Thirty Day Deadline issue?

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Let me first say how much I appreciate this board. It has splendid information available. However, I can not seem to find an answer to a question I have. I understand the thirty days to respond to the initial contact from the collection agency. But, I only learned of the attempt to collect when I pulled up my credit report to check on my FICO score. I did that yesterday only to learn the score dropped from 786 to 706. I emmediatly called the collection agency and was told they attempted to contact me in April with no reponse. I moved from Florida to Tennessee the previous February. But, all my mail was forwarded. I dispute the agencies claim that I owe them any money at all. . So, doesn't the agency have to prove that they in deed attempted to contact me? The consumer rights law says that I have 30 days to respond from the date they made contact. However< they did not make contact with me, I made contact with them. Help please.

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is to clear up all confusion on the "30 Day Timeframe" that is often Misunderstood here. If it did not answer your question, ask away.

 

First read the FDCPA closely.

 

FDCPA:

When you get the FIRST dunning letter from a CA, YOU as a consumer, have 30 days to dispute it with the CA.

 

Does the CA have 30 Days to respond to my DV request?

 

There is NO DEADLINE for them to respond under the FDCPA. They are under NO 30 day deadline.

However, If your DV is timely, they MUST cease all collection activity until they send you DV. They can legally wait 7 days or 7 months.

 

What does timely mean?

It means that you request DV from the CA within 30 days of you getting the First dunning letter.

 

What if the date of the letter only gives me less than 30 days?

The Consumers 30 day clock starts when you receive the letter. The date on it is irrelevant. (Keep the envelope, as the postmark date may back you up)

 

What if I Got slack and missed the 30 days?

All is not lost. You can DV ANYTIME. However, outside the 30 days, they do not have to respond, nor cease collections. (I have DV'd several past the 30 days and found that 98% still send something).

 

Are the 30 Days "Calendar Days or Business Days?"

Calendar days. Including weekends and Holidays.

 

Why do some Sample Letters say that the CA Must respond in 30 days?

I have no idea. There is nothing in the FDCPA to support that. I wish that letter would be deleted from all internets.

 

My Best Method:

Send a DV within 1-2 days of getting the First dunning letter, CMRR. Once they get it, they Can't legally report if they haven't already. I have beaten many CA'S to the reports so to speak.

 

But CRA's have 30 days to complete an Investigation, Right?

Correct. Unless you send them new information, it will extend their time to 45 days. Also if you dispute based on the yearly free reports, they may extend it to 45 days. So never send in anything extra until the dispute is complete, or you will have to wait another 15 days.

 

What about a FCRA 623 Dispute with a Data Furnisher?

Yes, under that, a DF must respond within 30 days. However you must be SPECIFIC as to what you are disputing. (Lates, Dates, amount, etc)

 

Whats a Data Furnisher?

ANYONE who reports a TL to a CRA.

 

OC's, CA's and if you work for the cast of Jersey Shore, and they report you to the CRA's each month, they are DF's.

 

Hope that clears up some confusion. If not, ask away. :wave:

 

Not to start a fire ut i have to disagree with some off the items u listed..

 

 

7. Proof of debts – Debt collectors are required by federal law to send "verification and validation" of a debt when the alleged debtor in writing disputes the debt within 30 days of a debt collector's first contact. The debt collector must send supporting documentation proving a debt is owed and until they send proof of debt they may not communicate or attempt to collect the alleged debt. It is important the alleged debtor request validation and verification within 30 days of a debt collector's first contact and that the dispute letter be certified return receipt requested, to establish a paper trail.

That statement came from Morgan and Morgan website, and they are a BIG FIRM here in FL http://www.forthepeo..._harassment.htm

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You can still dispute it. They may not be telling the truth when they say they tried to contact you, but a judge would take their word over yours 99% of the time.

 

If you dispute within the first 30 days, they have to stop collection activity until they do validate. If you dispute after the 30 days, they do not have to stop collection activity. There is no time limit for them to validate, but if they don't, you have something to work with if they sue you.

 

If the debt isn't yours or you aren't sure, send the validation letter now.

 

Sometimes collectors register here and post their version of the laws. Listen to the old-timers here. :)

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I know it's been a few months since the last post, but I really need some clarification on one point. If I send a CA a DV letter after 30 days from the FIRST dunning letter you guys say that the CA can still resume debt collection activities. Does this mean that if I attempt the 1-2 punch, and dispute with the CRA's, that they can communicate/ verify with the bureaus before sending me validation WITHOUT committing a violation? Thanks everyone for the awesome discussion post btw!

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ok i disputed my equifax report and they verified everything but it took longer than 30 days so how do i proceed i have a very good understanding of the reporting system because i am a finance mgr at a car dealer but im new to the credit repair scene and is it possible to remove inquires

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Question - if the CAs do not have to respond or stop collections, what point is there in sending a DV after the 30 days?

Won't the bureau tell me that they are not removing it because, although invalidated, the collection agency is not obligated to validate since its past 30 days, hence the debt might still be real regardless of if I received validation or not?

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I did not get a dunning notice. I got a credit alert that the collection is there as of today. When I called the CA they said they only had an old address. I sent DV today.

 

Would this be considered timely?

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Question - if the CAs do not have to respond or stop collections, what point is there in sending a DV after the 30 days?

Won't the bureau tell me that they are not removing it because, although invalidated, the collection agency is not obligated to validate since its past 30 days, hence the debt might still be real regardless of if I received validation or not?

 

 

Yes, I'm interested to find an answer to this too. What's the point of a DV if pretty much all my collections are waay past the 30 days?

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Paper trail.

 

I'm confused - sorry I'm a newbie. I'm assuming you mean a paper trail is needed in case you go to court - but if they haven't committed a violation what's the point of having a paper trail?

Not to be argumentative, I am going to keep a paper trail, I'm just trying to understand the logic. I guess you hope that they violate in some other way eventually...

Edited by ltfb

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Am new to this forum and have been reading a lot of posts and am still confused. If the CA sends you a dunning letter, what proof is there that you got it if it isn't sent registered mail? Many people have been talking about a paper trail in case of a lawsuit, but is it just accepted as fact the date that's on the dunning letter? What's to prevent a CA from changing a date on a letter if it's to their advantage and keeps you from getting into the 30-day period, and therefore they don't have to provide validation of debt or cease collections activity? Also, is there no protection in the laws for those people who might not have received the letter, for whatever reason (moved, wrong address, or mail not delivered), or if the only way you become aware of the collection activity is through seeing it on your credit report, which might be well past the 30 days?

Thanks for your help.

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What if the letter went to a three year old address and I didn't actually receive until 3 months later (because I know the current owner, but only recently saw him to receive the letter) Does my 30 day limit start from that date? I send them a DV letter informing them I haven't been at the address they've been contacting me for three years.

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I want to Bump this thread -- I too have been doing a TON of reading lately and perhaps am starting to get things mixed up. I would also like to have some clarification to the question below and quote below --

 

 

I have moved (6) times in the past 4 years, different states in most cases for work. Midland is reporting, and has been on my report since 2011, but I have not recieved a dunning letter (that I am aware of) -- they did call me once and I answered, I cannot confrim weather or not they actually validated my identity, but I still do not remember any mention of having 30-days to dispute.

 

 

I just sent a DV letter to Midland -- (it was recieved this week, waiting to get the green card back) -- I assume they will not respond or reply with some sub-par bs, and I will end up sending a follow up letter and then ultimately disputing with all three CRA's if I do not recieve proper validation. Based on the 30-day rule, will the CRA's kick out my dispute, if it gets to that level regardless of recieving validation or not??

 

 

I have never recieved anything standard mail or Certified Mail from Midland (that I am aware of)

 

 

Am new to this forum and have been reading a lot of posts and am still confused. If the CA sends you a dunning letter, what proof is there that you got it if it isn't sent registered mail? Many people have been talking about a paper trail in case of a lawsuit, but is it just accepted as fact the date that's on the dunning letter? What's to prevent a CA from changing a date on a letter if it's to their advantage and keeps you from getting into the 30-day period, and therefore they don't have to provide validation of debt or cease collections activity? Also, is there no protection in the laws for those people who might not have received the letter, for whatever reason (moved, wrong address, or mail not delivered), or if the only way you become aware of the collection activity is through seeing it on your credit report, which might be well past the 30 days?

Thanks for your help.

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is there a benefit to waiting until the end of the 30 day perioid to request validation/verification? can they sue during the 30 days? can they continue collection efforts until they receive validation request?

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I don't know if this helps but I spoke to an attorney in CA who works in this area; he said that parking a collection account on the credit report does not constitute "first contact", so there is a variation of a DV letter that states "while examining my credit report at [agency], I discovered [account] was listed as a negative item". In this case as long as the dunning letter was not sent certified mail (they never want to pay for that it's mass mail), you are claiming the 30 days starts at your discovery of the item on your credit, they are likely to buy that, if you ignored their initial contact and waited awhile.

 

I know in my case I didn't even care or check credit for over a year and there were collection accounts on there that never interacted with me, until I actually applied for a card and triggered them to start collection activity. However these were first buyers of the accounts so my risk is higher, I'm going with the ignore them and let them sell it strategy until I feel confident the current "owner" can have no claim to proof that they own it.

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I had a $270 negative account on my credit report from VA RU CREDIT CORPORATION (a collection agency)for missing my ConEdison electric bill when I moved.

The collection was there for about a year and a half.

I recently got a letter from I.C. SYSTEM, INC. (another collection agency) with the following message:

October 2, 2012

 

RE: Con Edison

Principal Due: $270.84

$.00 has been paid since placement

Dear Tampico:

 

Your delinquent account has been turned over to this collection agency.

 

You are hereby notified that I.C. System will forward the account information to the national credit reporting agencies in your creditors name if you fail to fulfill the terms of your credit obligations. Of course, you will have the right then, as you do now, to inspect your credit file in accordance with federal law. I.C. System will not submit the account information to the national credit repoting agencies until the expiration of the time period described in the notice below.

 

Tear off bottom portion of this letter and return it with your payment.

 

If you would like to make a payment arrangement, or settle your account for 50% of the balance, please call us at 866/389-2027. If you choose to settle your account for 50% of the balance, Con Edison will update your credit record that you paid the account in full.

 

We are a debt collector attempting to collect a debt and any imformation obtained will be used for that purpose.

 

Sincerely,

 

Beth Brown

Manager

 

NOTICE

Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume this debt is valid. Etc..etc..

Needless to say, I went ahead and checked all 3 of my credit reports (via Citi Identity Monitor) and the negative mark is GONE from all three bureaus! There is NOTHING under "Collection Items".

My goal here is to put this behind me and making sure it NEVER comes back to haunt me. Even if it means paying the whole thing in full.

I've had an, otherwise, impeccable Credit report and score since the beginning and I'm on top of my game always paying on time etc.

Can someone please advise me as to how to proceed?

Do I contact the CA by phone?

If I pay them can they still report me negatively?

Should I pay in full and not try to negotiate a lower price?

Can I demand a letter from them promising not to report me?

What's the best form of payment when paying a CA?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me here.

 

 

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Here's my situation:

 

My husband dug in his heels with the insurance company in Nov. of 08. The insurance was in my name so it is reported as a joint account. It was turned over to a CA in another state in Feb. 09. We paid it in full 4/09. I have none of the paperwork anymore. We are at the same address as we were then. I sent a DV letter to the CRAs certified on 11/19/12. TU removed the CA account, EX says it will not remove, have not heard from EQ. It is now the 21st(end of the world as we know it-HA), past the 30 day mark . The suggestion I received from Credit Boards is to now send a DV to the CA. If they reconfirm it will it show up on the TU acct. again? What are the odds that they will actually remove it completely? It is the one collection on my account.

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I had a $270 negative account on my credit report from VA RU CREDIT CORPORATION (a collection agency)for missing my ConEdison electric bill when I moved.

The collection was there for about a year and a half.

I recently got a letter from I.C. SYSTEM, INC. (another collection agency) with the following message:

October 2, 2012

 

RE: Con Edison

Principal Due: $270.84

$.00 has been paid since placement

Dear Tampico:

 

Your delinquent account has been turned over to this collection agency.

 

You are hereby notified that I.C. System will forward the account information to the national credit reporting agencies in your creditors name if you fail to fulfill the terms of your credit obligations. Of course, you will have the right then, as you do now, to inspect your credit file in accordance with federal law. I.C. System will not submit the account information to the national credit repoting agencies until the expiration of the time period described in the notice below.

 

Tear off bottom portion of this letter and return it with your payment.

 

If you would like to make a payment arrangement, or settle your account for 50% of the balance, please call us at 866/389-2027. If you choose to settle your account for 50% of the balance, Con Edison will update your credit record that you paid the account in full.

 

We are a debt collector attempting to collect a debt and any imformation obtained will be used for that purpose.

 

Sincerely,

 

Beth Brown

Manager

 

NOTICE

Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume this debt is valid. Etc..etc..

Needless to say, I went ahead and checked all 3 of my credit reports (via Citi Identity Monitor) and the negative mark is GONE from all three bureaus! There is NOTHING under "Collection Items".

My goal here is to put this behind me and making sure it NEVER comes back to haunt me. Even if it means paying the whole thing in full.

I've had an, otherwise, impeccable Credit report and score since the beginning and I'm on top of my game always paying on time etc.

Can someone please advise me as to how to proceed?

Do I contact the CA by phone?

If I pay them can they still report me negatively?

Should I pay in full and not try to negotiate a lower price?

Can I demand a letter from them promising not to report me?

What's the best form of payment when paying a CA?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me here.

 

 

 

Not sure what I missed, I deleted the advice.

Edited by Just J

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I had a $270 negative account on my credit report from VA RU CREDIT CORPORATION (a collection agency)for missing my ConEdison electric bill when I moved.

The collection was there for about a year and a half.

I recently got a letter from I.C. SYSTEM, INC. (another collection agency) with the following message:

October 2, 2012

 

RE: Con Edison

Principal Due: $270.84

$.00 has been paid since placement

Dear Tampico:

 

Your delinquent account has been turned over to this collection agency.

 

You are hereby notified that I.C. System will forward the account information to the national credit reporting agencies in your creditors name if you fail to fulfill the terms of your credit obligations. Of course, you will have the right then, as you do now, to inspect your credit file in accordance with federal law. I.C. System will not submit the account information to the national credit repoting agencies until the expiration of the time period described in the notice below.

 

Tear off bottom portion of this letter and return it with your payment.

 

If you would like to make a payment arrangement, or settle your account for 50% of the balance, please call us at 866/389-2027. If you choose to settle your account for 50% of the balance, Con Edison will update your credit record that you paid the account in full.

 

We are a debt collector attempting to collect a debt and any imformation obtained will be used for that purpose.

 

Sincerely,

 

Beth Brown

Manager

 

NOTICE

Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume this debt is valid. Etc..etc..

Needless to say, I went ahead and checked all 3 of my credit reports (via Citi Identity Monitor) and the negative mark is GONE from all three bureaus! There is NOTHING under "Collection Items".

My goal here is to put this behind me and making sure it NEVER comes back to haunt me. Even if it means paying the whole thing in full.

I've had an, otherwise, impeccable Credit report and score since the beginning and I'm on top of my game always paying on time etc.

Can someone please advise me as to how to proceed?

Do I contact the CA by phone?

If I pay them can they still report me negatively?

Should I pay in full and not try to negotiate a lower price?

Can I demand a letter from them promising not to report me?

What's the best form of payment when paying a CA?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me here.

 

 

 

Sorry so late, (I just joined CB today!) hopefully, you resolved the debt, the letter you received is telling me that the OC just placed the debt with the third party CA. That being said, the first thing a third party CA will do once the account is uploaded to their collection software, is to send out an initial letter to the debtor. By law this notification must go out once an account is initially placed. During this time frame the CA will basically present an opportunity to pay the debt before any credit reporting and often times.. phone calls take place. SO, if you are looking to avoid this hitting your cbr, simply pay the debt in full with the CA before any credit reporting takes place, should you find yourself fortunate enough and can afford to do so. As far as the settlement offer, they offer a caveat of showing that the debt is paid in full, of course, it is way better to to not show the delinquency occurred at all, as you know.

 

 

 

SO, if you are looking to avoid this hitting your cbr, simply pay the debt in full with the CA before any credit reporting takes place,

 

You need to go back and read the very first post in this thread, before giving out that advice.

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TY for deleting. LOL, only problem is I read your advice before you deleted.

 

You still need to go back and read the very first post in this thread.

 

Happy New Year, may your stay with us be long and prosperous.

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TY for deleting. LOL, only problem is I read your advice before you deleted.

 

You still need to go back and read the very first post in this thread.

 

Happy New Year, may your stay with us be long and prosperous.

 

You insisted, so of course I took your advice.. I think I'm missing what you are trying to point out for me.... I read what I "think" is the first post, that says: "Let me first say how much I appreciate this board. It has splendid information available. However, I can not seem to find an answer to a question I have. I understand the thirty days to respond to the initial contact from the collection agency. But, I only learned of the attempt to collect when I pulled up my credit report to check on my FICO score. I did that yesterday only to learn the score dropped from 786 to 706. I emmediatly called the collection agency and was told they attempted to contact me in April with no reponse. I moved from Florida to Tennessee the previous February. But, all my mail was forwarded. I dispute the agencies claim that I owe them any money at all. . So, doesn't the agency have to prove that they in deed attempted to contact me? The consumer rights law says that I have 30 days to respond from the date they made contact. However< they did not make contact with me, I made contact with them. Help please. "<br style="color: rgb(31, 63, 93); font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242);">

I didn't find this specifically relevant, as the post I was responding too, is a question "at it's root" about resolving the debt by potentially paying it before the validation period runs out....

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First post states this among other things.

 

My Best Method:

Send a DV within 1-2 days of getting the First dunning letter, CMRR. Once they get it, they Can’t legally report if they haven’t already. I have beaten many CA’S to the reports so to speak.

 

 

You said this

 

SO, if you are looking to avoid this hitting your cbr, simply pay the debt in full with the CA before any credit reporting takes place,

 

Quite the contrary bit of advice you gave, which you later edited. I disagree with your stated advice, hence my request to read the first post in the thread.

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First post states this among other things.

 

My Best Method:

Send a DV within 1-2 days of getting the First dunning letter, CMRR. Once they get it, they Can't legally report if they haven't already. I have beaten many CA'S to the reports so to speak.

 

 

You said this

 

SO, if you are looking to avoid this hitting your cbr, simply pay the debt in full with the CA before any credit reporting takes place,

 

Quite the contrary bit of advice you gave, which you later edited. I disagree with your stated advice, hence my request to read the first post in the thread.

 

That's cool, 1. I'm not familiar with that method. 2. didn't know that was the post you were referring too. oh, and 3. I edited it, because you suggested it wasn't the best advice. I hope I make it past day 1 on the boards, lol.

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Be careful advising people when to pay, and whom to pay. Some CA's - you pay them, they aren't legally authorized to collect that debt, it's already been shuffled off to another debt buyer, and none of them have any kind of proof that would hold up under closer scrutiny.

 

If you've been posting on myFICO forums, you'll find a few major difference here. They have to say a lot of things because they have customers who say those things, like sure, pay it and then it won't hurt you any more, your credit will get better. That's baloney.

 

There are only few special circumstances where you would pay immediately, and those circumstance happen very rarely.

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Be careful advising people when to pay, and whom to pay. Some CA's - you pay them, they aren't legally authorized to collect that debt, it's already been shuffled off to another debt buyer, and none of them have any kind of proof that would hold up under closer scrutiny.

 

If you've been posting on myFICO forums, you'll find a few major difference here. They have to say a lot of things because they have customers who say those things, like sure, pay it and then it won't hurt you any more, your credit will get better. That's baloney.

 

There are only few special circumstances where you would pay immediately, and those circumstance happen very rarely.

 

 

 

Thank you Breeze. I was a debt collector for several years (I know, I know, tomatoes) I actually would see it all the time, where we send out the initial letter once we get the account, before we put the account on the auto-dialer, we will not report it in the first 30 days(if we receive the bif within that time, we would not report it at all. The agency would give us a few reasons as to why not, 1st being is the debtor may honestly, not be aware that the debt is outstanding (especially in the case of medical debts) and once they receive the notice they will just "float" the payment in via mail in or call in and pay it off. No need to damage cbr's of Americans because they forgot, didn't fully understand what their insurance covered, changed addresses, etc. They took care of it immediately, everyone is good to go. The 2nd reason, is because as you know, most collectors get paid an hourly wage plus commissions on whatever they collect over their individual monthly quota, if the account is assigned to that collector and they get a "float in" payment, that pushes them to earn more commissions, without having to actually "talk off" that account. So the dirty CA one may work for, will not put the accounts into anybody's assigned "que" until after this 30 day period goes by, so they can keep all the "float in money" from the letter responses and post those funds to "the house" essentially bypassing the collector getting "easy float in money". Other agency's hold for 60 days from the date of placement, others wait 0 days and report asap, so it certainly varies. I'm certainly not saying this is a better method that you guys may use or has been developed that you can get things done without paying before reporting occurs (by all means keep up the good work).. I was just sharing what I experienced and know to be fact from personal experience. Thanks to anyone who is reading this really long post, I believe it is very important to achieve clarification in our correspondence. No bad blood. :)

 

 

Oh and yes, PLENTY of Truth to what you properly stated, in regards to CA's prompting payment when they don't have the debt to service any longer, what they do is, get the funds collected, then contact the original OC and "TRY really hard" to get the OC to "pull" the account back from the other agency that just got it, and fight to get credit for collecting that account. What they are supposed to do, is direct the customer to the OC to take care of the debt with them, or get referred to where the debt is currently placed, but they are not to attempt to collect as they no longer have the debt. So True. Insofar as credit reporting, we ALL know having a debt reported as paid in full, is not awesome at all.

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