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New IRS Policy 04/02/2011

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So you're saying that taxes are not uncollectible after 10 years of them becoming past due, but only 10 years after the LIEN is filed? I was told that the lien would not expire until (10 or 15 years) but the taxes themselves become uncollectible after 10 years have passed. In my case the taxes were from 2003, and the lien was filed in 2008. If that's the case, then the 10 year rule would really never apply because they can file a lien at anytime, correct? Say for instance they filed the lien on 2003 taxes in 2012, then they could collect on them until 2022?

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Ugh, guess I'll gear up to make an offer to them. I was really hoping it was going to magically go poof next year!

 

I don't want to clog up this thread with my personal problem but I don't see a board for Tax issues. Can you suggest where best to discuss this? I can make a thread for some questions.

 

Also, I think the term they use is Offer in Compromise? Would that be a good search term to use on here to find other similar cases? I want to see what others have experienced with making a settlement offer to the IRS.

 

Thanks, ICANHASMUNY!

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I did this over a month ago. The IRS sent me a letter saying they had "removed the lien" (-which had been paid in 2007 but was still appearing on reports.) I called the IRS the following day to confirm that the CRAs had been notified. Then I checked my reports. The lien listing was indeed gone, but there was no improvement in scores. Granted, the lien was paid and removed as far as the IRS was concerned back in Feb 2007, but the whole point is supposed to be that now the IRS doesn't issue liens for amounts less than $10,000, and they made the new rule retroactive--so it's supposed to be as if it never happened. Surely it hurt my score back then, and you would think that if it was still on my report, it would have been the cause of a point reduction in the present, up until the record was removed. What gives?

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OK folks, here's all the dirt and lowdown & forms on this subject.........I had a federal lien in Feb. 2009 for $5,400 thanks to a business partner who skipped out on filing taxes on me.....paid it off in full by March 2010 and got certificate saying it was paid off as such but it started reporting on all 3 of my CRA reports and my credit scores plummeted.

 

I just sent out a letter to the IRS early March 2011 and it is now COMPLETELY gone off all three of my April CRA reports and my score jumped 106 points across the board. Here's what worked for me:

 

1. First, for reference, here's the link to the official IRS Newsroom Press Release on the subject: http://www.irs.gov/n...=236540,00.html

 

2. Second and most importantly, DO NOT INITIALLY WRITE DISPUTE LETTERS TO THE CRA'S, YOU HAVE TO CONTACT THE IRS AND THEY WILL REMOVE IT..........from the press release: "Liens will now be withdrawn once full payment of taxes is made if the taxpayer requests it. The IRS has determined that this approach is in the best interest of the government.In order to speed the withdrawal process, the IRS will also streamline its internal procedures to allow collection personnel to withdraw the liens."

 

3. What you have to do first is fill out an IRS form 12277: Application for Withdrawl of Filed Form 668(Y), notice of Federal Tax Lien. Here's the PDF link: http://www.irs.gov/p...-pdf/f12277.pdf

 

4. There are four boxes on the bottom of the form and you have to check off one. Chedck off "D" : The taxpayer or the taxpayer advocate acting on behalf of the taxpayer, believes withdrawl is in the best interest of the taxpayer and the government".

 

5. To speed things up, it may help if you include a copy of your certificate of release from when you paid off your taxes (I did, I know they have access to it all, just tried to save them some paperwork tracking).

 

6. You HAVE to send it to the proper Technical Services Advisory Group Manager address: Here's a link to the pdf that, on page 2, shows the correct mail addresses for every region of the country: http://www.irs.gov/p...s-pdf/p4235.pdf

 

7. As far as sample letter, mine was pretty simple and to the point, I figured it wasn't like I was trying to do a pay to delete, I'm just taking them up on their offer so it was quick and to the point. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of your letter other than making sure all of your dates and ss#/taxpayer is that YOU have to request for them to send withdrawl copies to the CRA's, they won't just do it on their own:

 

 

March 4, 2011

 

IRS

Technical Services Advisory Group Manager

15 New Sudbury Street,

JFK Building, Rm. 800,

PO Box 9112,

Stop 20800A, Boston, MA 02203

 

 

To Whom It May Concern,

 

 

Attached please find my completed and signed request for withdrawl of tax lien, serial number xxxxxxxxxxxx for the taxpayer ID (Social Security Number) xxxxxxxxxxx. Original Date of Asssesment was xx/xx/2009 for tax period ending xx/xx/xxxx.

 

Attached also please find a copy of a notice from the IRS Newsroom dated 2/24/2011 in relation the the IRS's new policy to withdraw paid tax liens. I wish to particpate in this offer and program effective immediately.

 

Enclosed, please find my completed IRS Form 12277 and a copy of my certificate for my paid tax lien.

 

Once reviewed and approved, please forward information of the withdrawl and deletion from my personal credit file to the following credit reporting agencies:

 

TransUnion

P.O. Box 2000

Chester, PA 19022-2000

 

Equifax Information Services

P.O. Box 740256

Atlanta, GA 30374

 

Experian

P.O. Box 9556

Allen, TX 75013

 

Please feel free to cntact me if any further information is required to expedite this request. finally, please forward me a copy of the offical withdrawl notice when it is completed for my records.

 

Thank you in advance for all of your assitance and efforts.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Name

Address

Contact phone number

 

This is wonderful news for me! We have a paid tax lien on my husband's report. It was only $1700 and we paid it a few months later (in 2008). Not only that, but our accountant screwed up and filed the taxes under my husband's SSN and not mine even though I was the one who earned the wages! The accountant insisted that the "head of household" had to be the man no matter what, even though I was working and my husband was home with the kids. Now our Social Security earnings statements are messed up and of course the tax lien is on my husband's credit. I need to make that accountant fix his error.

 

My question is this: I don't know where I put the certificate that the lien has been paid; I may not have kept it, or it's in storage with our other stuff in another state so I can't look for it right now. Can I still write this letter and get the entry removed? Thanks!

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You not having your actual copy of the lien being paid should be no big deal, it is public record in most all states and easy to get a copy of. In MA, they are with the Registry of Deeds, and can be viewed and copies purchased right online. You can either go that route or just call the IRS and ask them to send out another copy, there usually isn't a charge for it. It's good to have acopy to send the CRA's with your letter if that's what you're doing, it saves them the trouble of bouncing the request back to you or it being tied up for months while they await a copy of something you can get right away yourself. Good luck.

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I did this over a month ago. The IRS sent me a letter saying they had "removed the lien" (-which had been paid in 2007 but was still appearing on reports.) I called the IRS the following day to confirm that the CRAs had been notified. Then I checked my reports. The lien listing was indeed gone, but there was no improvement in scores. Granted, the lien was paid and removed as far as the IRS was concerned back in Feb 2007, but the whole point is supposed to be that now the IRS doesn't issue liens for amounts less than $10,000, and they made the new rule retroactive--so it's supposed to be as if it never happened. Surely it hurt my score back then, and you would think that if it was still on my report, it would have been the cause of a point reduction in the present, up until the record was removed. What gives?

 

Even though you may or may not get a score jump, it will still help your creditworthiness because you won't have that lien on there. Even with a low score, it looks better to not have a tax lien. I have been turned down for things with fairly good credit but because of having a fed tax lien. So congrats for getting rid of it!

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You not having your actual copy of the lien being paid should be no big deal, it is public record in most all states and easy to get a copy of. In MA, they are with the Registry of Deeds, and can be viewed and copies purchased right online. You can either go that route or just call the IRS and ask them to send out another copy, there usually isn't a charge for it. It's good to have acopy to send the CRA's with your letter if that's what you're doing, it saves them the trouble of bouncing the request back to you or it being tied up for months while they await a copy of something you can get right away yourself. Good luck.

 

montanarice, you are awesome! :clapping: There isn't much that's bad on my husband's report, so seeing this tax lien disappear could have quite an impact on our score! Thanks!

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Reading that many had luck with Transunion. After I sent copies of the withdrawal forms the account was verified as "paid" by TU. EQ / EX delted right away. Trying to dispute TU again with the court record filing numbers.

Edited by propellerz

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Reading that many had luck with Transunion. After I sent copies of the withdrawal forms the account was verified as "paid" by TU. EQ / EX delted right away. Trying to dispute TU again with the court record filing numbers.

 

Have you considered a CFPB dispute?

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I posted this in an ongoing thread elsewhere, but thought it would be valuable here as well:

 

 

First some background. I have had two liens with the IRS. The first was paid and withdrawn in 2011. The second was been paid, released, and withdrawn late last year.

 

Last time, the IRS sent notice to the CRA's for me (as I specifically asked that they do so) and two of the big three deleted without any intervention from me. They also sent a copy of the signed withdrawal with their response to me (also requested by me).

 

This time I also requested that they send notice to the CRAs and that they give me a copy of the form. However, while they did respond and they did withdraw the lien, I cannot tell from their letter to me whether or not they notified the consumer reporting agencies. They also did not give include a copy of the withdrawal in their response. Instead, they gave me a facsimile copy of form 10916 (the withdrawal).

 

If you've never seen an IRS facsimile, it isn't a very impressive document. Imagine a plain typed document using Courier font that is unadorned in any way, and which is not signed. They are hard to read, and you have to scrutinize them carefully to understand the gist of what they are saying. From the standpoint of a call center worker in India, I suspect this document would be extremely easy to misunderstand.

 

I am unsure of whether or not I will receive a copy of the actual form, because the communication the IRS sent me is contradictory. It contains a letter from the lien advisory group manager asserting that I will receive a separate letter containing a copy of the actual document (I have not yet received such), and it contains a letter from the directly responsible lien advisory officer that mentions the enclosed facsimile, but gives no reference to the actual form.

 

One good thing is that the IRS notes that they did forward the withdrawal to the clerk-recorder here. However, the clerk-recorder here is very slow; it takes about a month to get a document recorded and appearing in their public records.

 

Right now, I'm trying to figure out what I should do. I am a bit worried that the facsimile the IRS sent me will be ignored by the CRAs. That said, I am still considering disputing with the CRAs based on that document. My rationale is that the lien is clearly withdrawn; I have the facts on my side. If the CRAs blow me off, I can then file a complaint with the CFPB to get executive handling action.

 

Thoughts?

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Reading that many had luck with Transunion. After I sent copies of the withdrawal forms the account was verified as "paid" by TU. EQ / EX delteed right away. Trying to dispute TU again with the court record filing numbers.

 

Have you considered a CFPB dispute?

 

I wasn't too familiar with the CFPB dispute process, but after researching, seems that it will be my next logical move. I never used the terms "paid", plus I had sent them a copy of the original response from the IRS. Very frustrating considering all the supporting documentation that I have provided TU.

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Checked Today and Transunion finally deleted. Sending them the stamped court filings, which I got from the Court clerks website, seem to have worked the second time. No need for a CFPB dispute. All clear now on the 3 bureaus.

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I am so glad to hear that you got your deletion. I'm still struggling through with mine.

 

What, if any, was the improvement in your scores following removal of the lien?

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I am so glad to hear that you got your deletion. I'm still struggling through with mine.

 

What, if any, was the improvement in your scores following removal of the lien?

 

 

Mine were quite old, '06 and earlier. The score improvement was minimal. I think the notations have a big impact on how creditors look at your credit worthiness regardless. In the past I have been denied credit solely because of these liens even when I used to have scores in the high 600s / decent utilization.

 

Hope all goes well in your case. In my opinion, is better to wait until you are sure the clerk recorder has processed the forms, even if you have to wait a few weeks.During that time there is always the possibility the CRAs will delete if the IRS sent them the information directly. If the documents get recorded and nothing changes then CRA dispute with a clear, direct to the point letter with documentation and including where the information can be corroborated ex. court address, phone # etc.

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Did anyone reading this thread receive a 10916-A instead of a 10916-C?

 

The first time I had a lien withdrawn, the IRS sent me a 10916-C (Withdrawal of Filed Notice of Federal Tax Lien). This time, however, they sent me a 10916-A (Withdrawal of Filed Notice of Federal Tax Lien After Release). I have never seen this form mentioned anywhere online, and I have Googled it fairly extensively.

 

Does anyone know if this form functions equivalently to a 10916-C? Has anyone else here received one?

Edited by SomeGuyInCA

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I did a OIC Can I still send in the 12227 if its not paid? I want to get a jump on this it will be paid in Mar as part of the offer

Edited by FIRST CLASS

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I did a OIC Can I still send in the 12227 if its not paid? I want to get a jump on this it will be paid in Mar as part of the offer

 

From what I have read about the IRS fresh start program, those having executed an offer in compromise program will have great difficulty getting a lien withdrawn until after the program is complete - sorry to have to say it.

 

The requirements for the Fresh Start program essentially center around two buckets:

 

1 ) People who have entered into a direct debit installment agreement to fully satisfy a tax liability, and...

2 ) People who have already fully satisfied a tax liability and for whom a lien has therefore already been released.

 

Within each bucket there are differing qualifications. For example, for released liens, the taxpayer must be in compliance with all filing requirements for the past 3 years. On the other hand, for un-released liens, the taxpayer must be in full compliance for all years. There are also limitations on amount.

 

More info: http://www.irs.gov/B...deral-Tax-Liens

 

Also this: http://www.irs.gov/p...05-0112-008.pdf (courtesy of CashNoCredit)

 

The document above seems to indicate that a lien released after an OIC can be withdrawn, but only if all terms of the OIC have been met.

Edited by SomeGuyInCA

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SomeGuyInCA, thanks for bringing back the link to the "Revision to Interim Guidance" pdf. I skipped over it the first time it appeared in this thread.

 

According to that document, having the tax discharged in BK does not qualify as "fully satisfied." I had part of it discharged, but paid most of it. The document says that when there is a mixture of fully satisfied and expired liabilities, they consider a withdrawal on a case-by-case basis. Having part of it discharged doesn't quite fit into the category of "expired liabilities," but I'm hoping they will review my request anyway. If not, I'm hosed.

 

I sent in my request for withdrawal in November and was wondering why I hadn't heard anything yet. That's probably why. I was thinking of calling them to check on it, but now that it looks like I might not fit within the right categories, I think I'll give them some more time and avoid potentially irritating them.

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I did a OIC Can I still send in the 12227 if its not paid? I want to get a jump on this it will be paid in Mar as part of the offer

 

From what I have read about the IRS fresh start program, those having executed an offer in compromise program will have great difficulty getting a lien withdrawn until after the program is complete - sorry to have to say it.

 

The requirements for the Fresh Start program essentially center around two buckets:

 

1 ) People who have entered into a direct debit installment agreement to fully satisfy a tax liability, and...

2 ) People who have already fully satisfied a tax liability and for whom a lien has therefore already been released.

 

Within each bucket there are differing qualifications. For example, for released liens, the taxpayer must be in compliance with all filing requirements for the past 3 years. On the other hand, for un-released liens, the taxpayer must be in full compliance for all years. There are also limitations on amount.

 

More info: http://www.irs.gov/B...deral-Tax-Liens

 

Also this: http://www.irs.gov/p...05-0112-008.pdf (courtesy of CashNoCredit)

 

The document above seems to indicate that a lien released after an OIC can be withdrawn, but only if all terms of the OIC have been met.

Ok thanks

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It looks like they withdrew my lien! I still haven't heard from the IRS since I filed my request in mid-November, but today my lien apparently disappeared from TU, as monitored by Credit Karma. In response, my CK Fako went up 8 points to 690 (not much but I'll take it), and TU Vantage went up 12 to 742. I'll know more about real scores as they roll in.

 

This thread is the reason I joined CB. Thanks especially to Mervynsb, montanarice, and everyone else who has posted juicy bits of information in this thread.

 

Of course, I'll follow up to make sure the lien disappears from EQ and EX as well. That will bring me down to one public record, my BK.

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Hmmm . . . I just checked and found that the withdrawal is now in the county clerk's database as well. They show the withdrawal as being effective a month ago. Strange that I never heard from the IRS.

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And my lien just disappeared from EX! So far, TU and EX have removed it on their own, apparently immediately upon receiving the withdrawal form from the IRS. Two down and one to go.

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And my lien just disappeared from EX! So far, TU and EX have removed it on their own, apparently immediately upon receiving the withdrawal form from the IRS. Two down and one to go.

 

Congratulations!

 

I had a similar experience with the first of two liens the IRS had filed against me; two of the three major CRA's deleted without input from me.

 

On the other hand, with the second lien I am having quite a lot of difficulty. TU deleted readily, but Equifax verified and I had to file a CFPB dispute, and demand to get heard by executive handling, before that issue got resolved. It also appears that Experian verified my initial dispute as well, so I've had to file with the CFPB against them as well.

 

I'm still amazed at how rotten the handling of disputes is by these agencies, even after having been through this several times. All three of them received a copy of the withdrawal (form 10916), all three received a copy of the IRS notification of withdrawal (letter 4177), and all three received a separate IRS confirmation. These three documents not only corroborated each other, they also had the name and phone number of the IRS agent in charge prominently displayed. It would not have been difficult to correctly verify that the documents were legitimate, but the reality is that not only is it unlikely they made any real effort to verify authenticity... the odds are high that they didn't even look at the documents. When I talked to executive handling for EQ, they had to go looking for them.

 

In the case of EQ I am particularly appalled. I say that because in BOTH the case of the dispute that they verified and in the case of the one that resulted in deletion, they claim that the information that they used to make the decision came straight from the county recorder, and they listed the county recorder's phone number as the contact number. But I called the county recorder and they said that the CRA's never call them. In fact, they evidently hear that story quite a lot, because the recorder I spoke to mentioned that they all say that, but it in fact is never actually done. He said that around here they just hire college kids to come troll the files, and mentioned that the kids they hire usually don't bother pulling withdrawals and releases... which is why they almost never get reported unless the consumer obtains a certified copy and forces the issue.

 

I think it is ridiculous that even when compelling evidence is provided, and when clear mechanisms of verification are available... that the CRA's still behave in this manner, and that they as a result need the oversight of a federal agency like the CFPB just to force them to perform basic due diligence.

 

So for me, as well, it is two down and one to go... but the going has been a lot more difficult.

 

I'll post back when EX finally deletes. They are certainly in the wrong; I sent the CFPB an officially certified copy of the recorded document - there just isn't any defense for having verified it.

Edited by SomeGuyInCA

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Thanks. Yes, if they are going to be digging in people's dirt for a living, they need to make sure their business is cleaner than everyone else's, not messier.

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Any Information to help would be appreciated. Here is the situation. I have my Taxes paid down to under the 25,000 mark. I have had a installment agreement for some time now and have made every payment on time. I sent in the 12277 and asked for a Lien withdraw on my taxes and got back a letter stating that because I had not been In a Direct debit for 3 months they would not release it. Today I noticed that on the IRS website it clearly states the 3 ways to get the lien released.


  1. Lien Withdraws for taxpayers entering into a Direct Debit agreement.
  2. The IRS with withdraw a lien if on a regular installment agreement converts to a direct Debit installment agreement.
  3. The IRS will also withdraw liens on existing Direct Debit Installment agreements upon taxpayer request.


Why was my withdraw not removed?

 

How do I fight this?



 

 

http://www.irs.gov/uac/IRS-Announces-New-Effort-to-Help-Struggling-Taxpayers-Get-a-Fresh-Start%3b-Major-Changes-Made-to-Lien-Process

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