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Felonies

The last post in this topic was posted 3749 days ago. 

 

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First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :rolleyes:

Yes, it's easy to not start drinking or smoking, but is a whole different ball game with painkillers. Usually, you start on them for a reason, with a script, you know? It's not like you HAVE to have a cigarette or a drink, but with painkillers, sometimes you HAVE to have them. And if you have no reason to suspect you have a predisposition to addiction, then why hesitate to take them?

 

Chronic pain sucks flowers. That much I know.

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First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :rolleyes:

Yes, it's easy to not start drinking or smoking, but is a whole different ball game with painkillers. Usually, you start on them for a reason, with a script, you know? It's not like you HAVE to have a cigarette or a drink, but with painkillers, sometimes you HAVE to have them. And if you have no reason to suspect you have a predisposition to addiction, then why hesitate to take them?

 

Chronic pain sucks flowers. That much I know.

I don't know. I mean, if you're going off of the assumption that there is something genetic causing one to be more inclined to become addicted, then I get what you're saying. I just don't know that I believe that that is the case. Again, there's no real substance behind that thought. :blush:

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First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :rolleyes:

Yes, it's easy to not start drinking or smoking, but is a whole different ball game with painkillers. Usually, you start on them for a reason, with a script, you know? It's not like you HAVE to have a cigarette or a drink, but with painkillers, sometimes you HAVE to have them. And if you have no reason to suspect you have a predisposition to addiction, then why hesitate to take them?

 

Chronic pain sucks flowers. That much I know.

I don't know. I mean, if you're going off of the assumption that there is something genetic causing one to be more inclined to become addicted, then I get what you're saying. I just don't know that I believe that that is the case. Again, there's no real substance behind that thought. :blush:

I am LOL. There is some really interesting research out there suggesting that certain alleles on specific genes are more common in people who are addicted to cocaine. If you look into some of the actual science and gene research, it's pretty fascinating.

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I am LOL. There is some really interesting research out there suggesting that certain alleles on specific genes are more common in people who are addicted to cocaine. If you look into some of the actual science and gene research, it's pretty fascinating.

Right. I know there are words there, but this is what I see.

 

I am LOL. There is some really asdjebn adfhlkjhei@*(#n out there suggesting that certain iu148j on specific 1029jfa8n are more common in people who are addicted to cocaine. If you look into some of the ajkdfeunua;e and *@@YFAIONFn, it's pretty fascinating.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

(science, also not my thing :blush:)

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400 different pain pills? How many were legallly prescribed by a physician.

 

Without knowing the facts of THIS case, my guess is that ALL of them were legally prescribed. It is not at all uncommon for the addict to shop for physicians when the addiction is prescription painkillers.

 

Addiction is irrelevant, she is guilty of the crime and addiction is not a defense.

 

Defense? No. Mitigation consideration? Absolutely. And that is for the bench or jury to decide...

 

No empathy here. If she had nodded off at the wheel and killed any of our family members, is it alright due to her addiction?

 

Not sure anyone is trying to say it would be justified.

 

There should be consequences, being she should be in prison (felony) and lose her license for good.

 

So in your world, there is no room for probation for any offenses classified as a felony?

 

Licensure is a separate issue. The review board should have the discretion to determine whether a suspension (either defined term or indefinite term) is warranted or whether it needs to simply be revoked.

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Ha!!

 

Ok, so I'll use my BPS and translate for you? Science indicates there is a genetic predisposition to addictive behaviour :rolleyes:

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Apparently you don't understand addiction. It isn't a choice, it's a disease and it's recognized as a disease by the AMA. Just because you have a family history of it doesn't mean it will happen to you. It wouldn't matter what position you put yourself in, if you are predisposed to addictions it will hit in some way or another. Just like smoking, some people can quit with no problem. Others can't. Why do you suppose that is?

 

First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :dntknw:

 

My DBF is a recovering alcoholic with more than 20 years of sobriety. He'll buy my drinks, go to the store for a box of wine, refill my glass when we are at home. But he uses alcohol-free mouthwash, avoids products such as Nyquil, etc. because those 30+ years of drinking, and drinking HARD, nearly killed him. If he hadn't signed himself into a hospital program one Christmas, he probably wouldn't have seen the New Year.

 

I had one sister who died as a side-effect of her alcoholism, and I know that I sometimes drink too much. But there is an elemental difference between my deciding that I have had enough for one night and what could happen if Bob decided that, after 20+ years, he'd like another beer. Quitting, or not starting, is NOT "very, very easy," and the person saying that truly doesn't understand addiction.

 

I'm about to put myself into a medically supervised weight-loss program -- not surgery, but meal replacements. I have done this before, but without the behavior modification support to keep the weight off once I lost it. I should be able to lose weight on my own, I know all about calories and fat grams and exercise -- but food can be another type of addiction, and I'm going to need help managing it. That is not going to be "very, very easy" either, but for the sake of my health I am going to do it.

 

Drugs, drink, food, money. . . some people can control their behavior, others can't do it on their own. Some of us realize that and ask for help. It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

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Ha!!

 

Ok, so I'll use my BPS and translate for you? Science indicates there is a genetic predisposition to addictive behaviour :lol:

I guess I've proven that I don't qualify for BPS, even if I'm half a BP. :dntknw:

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Apparently you don't understand addiction. It isn't a choice, it's a disease and it's recognized as a disease by the AMA. Just because you have a family history of it doesn't mean it will happen to you. It wouldn't matter what position you put yourself in, if you are predisposed to addictions it will hit in some way or another. Just like smoking, some people can quit with no problem. Others can't. Why do you suppose that is?

 

First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :dntknw:

 

My DBF is a recovering alcoholic with more than 20 years of sobriety. He'll buy my drinks, go to the store for a box of wine, refill my glass when we are at home. But he uses alcohol-free mouthwash, avoids products such as Nyquil, etc. because those 30+ years of drinking, and drinking HARD, nearly killed him. If he hadn't signed himself into a hospital program one Christmas, he probably wouldn't have seen the New Year.

 

I had one sister who died as a side-effect of her alcoholism, and I know that I sometimes drink too much. But there is an elemental difference between my deciding that I have had enough for one night and what could happen if Bob decided that, after 20+ years, he'd like another beer. Quitting, or not starting, is NOT "very, very easy," and the person saying that truly doesn't understand addiction.

 

I'm about to put myself into a medically supervised weight-loss program -- not surgery, but meal replacements. I have done this before, but without the behavior modification support to keep the weight off once I lost it. I should be able to lose weight on my own, I know all about calories and fat grams and exercise -- but food can be another type of addiction, and I'm going to need help managing it. That is not going to be "very, very easy" either, but for the sake of my health I am going to do it.

 

Drugs, drink, food, money. . . some people can control their behavior, others can't do it on their own. Some of us realize that and ask for help. It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

Very well said.

 

And congrats to your DBF on 20 years of sobriety! My dad hit the 20-year mark a couple years ago. :lol:

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It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

 

I get that addiction is addiction and its something tough, I really do...but, I don't think it takes perfection to be a person that wants to try hard to make tough decisions about his/her life. In fact, I'd say being smart enough to ask for help where it is needed is making the decision to control a situation.

 

I just wanted to say that because I think a lot of times we let the words or impressions of perffection get in the way of understanding that its okay to slip and fall...but you have to get up...and getting up, even with the risk of another fall, is what makes all the difference in the world, IMO.

 

Now whether some have the propensity to just stay down after a fall more than others...I suppose that's another discussion...

 

ETA- 20yrs is some cool stuff!

Edited by dang

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Drugs, drink, food, money. . . some people can control their behavior, others can't do it on their own. Some of us realize that and ask for help. It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

 

Exactly.

Folks who say "well, if you just made better decisions" are only showing they don't have a real understanding of the problem. An addict's decision making process isn't the same as a non-addict's.

If you can just decide one day to stop (whatever negative behavior you are addicted to) without any outside intervention- you probably aren't an addict.

 

One of the sharpest guys I knew was a behavioral psychologist, written several textbooks on behavior modification. Yet he couldn't kick his own severe alcohol addiction. Despite several trips through rehab, losing his wife and family, time in jail and eventual license revocation- the alcoholism ended up killing him.

It'd be easy to sit here and smugly say "well, if he'd made better decisions...." and if he'd had a non-addictive personality, he probably would've. But he wasn't that fortunate. Some folks just aren't.

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sincere question:

 

If there are things that simply cannot helped - an addicti is just an addict, are loved-ones expected to keep hoping or give up and let the addict be who they are?

 

I know my answer to that, I'd just like to hear some others.

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sincere question:

 

If there are things that simply cannot helped - an addicti is just an addict, are loved-ones expected to keep hoping or give up and let the addict be who they are?

 

I know my answer to that, I'd just like to hear some others.

 

Well, you can keep hoping and let the addict be who they are, 'cause IMHO (and experience) you can't *make* them change. I've offered many times over the last decade to house and get help for an alcoholic nephew. He understood that there would be rules and restrictions and chose not. Granted, there were other members of the family that were enabling him - so he could go on as he pleased. Until he stole my sister's car and wrapped it around a tree. And then while he was on probation, and supposedly not to be in establishments that served alcohol, he got into a bar fight. The judge saw fit to sentence him to an in-patient rehab program. He does have the option to walk away (which would land him in jail, and he's never made great choices before) but so far he has stayed put. I am hopeful that he will come out of this as a functioning member of society.

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so you are more on the middle ground approach? Setting up some options with rules and leaving it up to the addict to make the choice? And somewhere in all of that hoping they will figure it out...

 

I can see that...and since you offered help, you don't have to worry with any feeilngs of guilt...or at least shouldn't.

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If there are things that simply cannot helped - an addicti is just an addict, are loved-ones expected to keep hoping or give up and let the addict be who they are?

 

Absolutely not! And it's not that an addict can't be helped or can't change. They can. It's that the decision-making process that leads to the addiction in the first place isn't the same as yours or mine. What you or I might be able to avoid, an addict may be drawn to so strongly that they can't avoid it on their own.

It's not an excuse for the behavior either, lol. I don't think some folks understand that there's a difference between making excuses, and understanding that a problem isn't always what it appears to someone not affected by it.

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so you are more on the middle ground approach? Setting up some options with rules and leaving it up to the addict to make the choice? And somewhere in all of that hoping they will figure it out...

 

I can see that...and since you offered help, you don't have to worry with any feeilngs of guilt...or at least shouldn't.

 

 

I suppose it is a middle ground approach. The offer was there, I just couldn't force him to take it when other family members were willing to pay his bills and just hope he would straighten up on his own. In my family, it is the one that feels guilty that does the most enabling. I do have some anger over all the wasted time and stupid excuses, but I don't feel guilty. He has asked for my address; I'm curious to see what any letter I get from him might say.

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If there are things that simply cannot helped - an addicti is just an addict, are loved-ones expected to keep hoping or give up and let the addict be who they are?

 

Absolutely not! And it's not that an addict can't be helped or can't change. They can. It's that the decision-making process that leads to the addiction in the first place isn't the same as yours or mine. What you or I might be able to avoid, an addict may be drawn to so strongly that they can't avoid it on their own.

It's not an excuse for the behavior either, lol. I don't think some folks understand that there's a difference between making excuses, and understanding that a problem isn't always what it appears to someone not affected by it.

 

So would you say the expectation to investigate and try fixing the decision making process leading to addiction is drawing too hard a line, as the non-addict?

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So would you say the expectation to investigate and try fixing the decision making process leading to addiction is drawing too hard a line, as the non-addict?

 

No. If they aren't able to do it for themselves, it's a good thing to force the issue. If they can't see their way out, you lead them out as best you can. If they won't follow..well...there is a difference between understanding a problem and allowing it to continue unchecked.

I've had to put one of my own out of the house. It's the worst decision a parent has to make.

Telling someone they made bad decisions doesn't' fix anything. Helping them make better ones does. In order to do that you have to understand how the bad decisions came about to begin with.

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So would you say the expectation to investigate and try fixing the decision making process leading to addiction is drawing too hard a line, as the non-addict?

 

No. If they aren't able to do it for themselves, it's a good thing to force the issue. If they can't see their way out, you lead them out as best you can. If they won't follow..well...there is a difference between understanding a problem and allowing it to continue unchecked.

I've had to put one of my own out of the house. It's the worst decision a parent has to make.

Telling someone they made bad decisions doesn't' fix anything. Helping them make better ones does. In order to do that you have to understand how the bad decisions came about to begin with.

 

Ok! That's fair! I dig it!

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So would you say the expectation to investigate and try fixing the decision making process leading to addiction is drawing too hard a line, as the non-addict?

 

No. If they aren't able to do it for themselves, it's a good thing to force the issue. If they can't see their way out, you lead them out as best you can. If they won't follow..well...there is a difference between understanding a problem and allowing it to continue unchecked.

I've had to put one of my own out of the house. It's the worst decision a parent has to make.

Telling someone they made bad decisions doesn't' fix anything. Helping them make better ones does. In order to do that you have to understand how the bad decisions came about to begin with.

 

My BIL is a drunk, He has does odd jobs, (Yard work and such) lives in a run down barn. (yea in the country) His 88 year old aunt allows him to shower at her house and she will wash his clothes. I know in the 11 years I have been with DH He has been given a way to help. He does not want it. My SIL and DH has told their family not to help him, If he wants money to drink make to him work for it.

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First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. :dntknw:

Yes, it's easy to not start drinking or smoking, but is a whole different ball game with painkillers. Usually, you start on them for a reason, with a script, you know? It's not like you HAVE to have a cigarette or a drink, but with painkillers, sometimes you HAVE to have them. And if you have no reason to suspect you have a predisposition to addiction, then why hesitate to take them?

 

Chronic pain sucks flowers. That much I know.

 

Painkillers are a bit different than alcohol, meth, etc. But, given that I know the dangers of addiction to painkillers, I take reasonable precautions when I absolutely must take them. First, I almost never fill the script. Then, on the rare occasion I have, I get the bare min. number with no refills so that I have to seek out a Dr. to get more (never done it).

 

 

 

 

It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

 

I get that addiction is addiction and its something tough, I really do...but, I don't think it takes perfection to be a person that wants to try hard to make tough decisions about his/her life. In fact, I'd say being smart enough to ask for help where it is needed is making the decision to control a situation.

 

I just wanted to say that because I think a lot of times we let the words or impressions of perffection get in the way of understanding that its okay to slip and fall...but you have to get up...and getting up, even with the risk of another fall, is what makes all the difference in the world, IMO.

 

Now whether some have the propensity to just stay down after a fall more than others...I suppose that's another discussion...

 

ETA- 20yrs is some cool stuff!

 

An addict does not think like a nonaddict does. However, before an addict is addicted, they are not an addict. They still made the same decisions when they started taking the meds, the drugs, drinking etc. Therefore they are still responsible for their own addiction.

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An addict does not think like a nonaddict does. However, before an addict is addicted, they are not an addict. They still made the same decisions when they started taking the meds, the drugs, drinking etc. Therefore they are still responsible for their own addiction.

 

Of course they are responsible for their own addiction, and must take responsibility for controlling it if recovery is ever to work. The difference is, during college I once smoked my way through a pack of cigarettes so that I could, err, inhale at parties. That was 35 years ago, haven't inhaled (first-hand) since. OTOH, I have a BIL who can pick up a pack one day and be smoking 4 packs a day by the end of the week. So, he has learned never to pick up that one pack.

 

And, as mentioned before, I can drink too much one evening and not have another drink for a week. DBF doesn't want to find out what would happen if he picked up that first drink, even after 20+ years in AA. In fact, we've had the conversation where he says, "I would not be able to keep both of us sober, if it came to that." So I make sure it will never come to that -- but that's because I am able to start and stop drinking at will. He started drinking at age 8, long before the development of adult decision-making capabilities, but he did eventually make it out the other end. For which I am very, very grateful.

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An addict does not think like a nonaddict does. However, before an addict is addicted, they are not an addict. They still made the same decisions when they started taking the meds, the drugs, drinking etc. Therefore they are still responsible for their own addiction.

 

Of course they are responsible for their own addiction, and must take responsibility for controlling it if recovery is ever to work. The difference is, during college I once smoked my way through a pack of cigarettes so that I could, err, inhale at parties. That was 35 years ago, haven't inhaled (first-hand) since. OTOH, I have a BIL who can pick up a pack one day and be smoking 4 packs a day by the end of the week. So, he has learned never to pick up that one pack.

 

And, as mentioned before, I can drink too much one evening and not have another drink for a week. DBF doesn't want to find out what would happen if he picked up that first drink, even after 20+ years in AA. In fact, we've had the conversation where he says, "I would not be able to keep both of us sober, if it came to that." So I make sure it will never come to that -- but that's because I am able to start and stop drinking at will. He started drinking at age 8, long before the development of adult decision-making capabilities, but he did eventually make it out the other end. For which I am very, very grateful.

 

I am the same way. I know I am wired to abuse them all. RX drugs, street drugs, drinking. I will self medicate in a heart beat Which is why I stay out of the way.

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First, I don't know that I buy that it's a genetics thing, but for no real reason. I haven't actually done any research really. But, I have a boatload of alkies and addicts in my family, and yet... I'm not. I could see it happening, so I just watch myself. If I think I've been drinking too often, then... I stop. It's that simple. I do not understand people that say they can't stop. I just don't. It's very, very easy to just NOT pick something up. B)

Yes, it's easy to not start drinking or smoking, but is a whole different ball game with painkillers. Usually, you start on them for a reason, with a script, you know? It's not like you HAVE to have a cigarette or a drink, but with painkillers, sometimes you HAVE to have them. And if you have no reason to suspect you have a predisposition to addiction, then why hesitate to take them?

 

Chronic pain sucks flowers. That much I know.

 

Painkillers are a bit different than alcohol, meth, etc. But, given that I know the dangers of addiction to painkillers, I take reasonable precautions when I absolutely must take them. First, I almost never fill the script. Then, on the rare occasion I have, I get the bare min. number with no refills so that I have to seek out a Dr. to get more (never done it).

 

 

 

 

It would be nice if we were all perfect and in control of every aspect of our lives, wouldn't it?

 

I get that addiction is addiction and its something tough, I really do...but, I don't think it takes perfection to be a person that wants to try hard to make tough decisions about his/her life. In fact, I'd say being smart enough to ask for help where it is needed is making the decision to control a situation.

 

I just wanted to say that because I think a lot of times we let the words or impressions of perffection get in the way of understanding that its okay to slip and fall...but you have to get up...and getting up, even with the risk of another fall, is what makes all the difference in the world, IMO.

 

Now whether some have the propensity to just stay down after a fall more than others...I suppose that's another discussion...

 

ETA- 20yrs is some cool stuff!

 

An addict does not think like a nonaddict does. However, before an addict is addicted, they are not an addict. They still made the same decisions when they started taking the meds, the drugs, drinking etc. Therefore they are still responsible for their own addiction.

 

Let me help you out with this thought process. It has nothing to do with drugs at all really. It has to do with the way the individual thinks. Drugs are a symptom of the disease. Those who are afllicted with this distorted thought process may never use drugs, but I would venture to say they probably work too much, eat too much, spend too much, you get the idea. I bet many here have made poor financial choices that have been motivated by the very same distroted thought process. The differemce is there is not a debtors prison to send us too.

 

Jim

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Update:

 

She called my db and said my neice won't be coming to stay with her and go to school (mind you she hasn't told her daughter that yet or why she can't come down, db says she needs to come talk to her in person, we know that won't happen)

 

Anyway:

 

30 to 90 days in jail

probation for 5 years

and she will more then likely lose her nursing license.

 

of course her public defender was terrible and she is appealing.

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