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Big Banks’ Sneaky New Tricks

The last post in this topic was posted 4167 days ago. 

 

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

 

Once the usury laws apply to overdraft lending, this will all go away.

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

 

Once the usury laws apply to overdraft lending, this will all go away.

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

Since I never use a credit card that has less than $10,000 available for GAS...do a "HOLD" for $500 for all I care

 

(as long as it is gone in 72 hours or less)

Edited by GEORGE

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I agree George, and most people should keep an extra buffer in their debit card as well. But, some people live check to check, and adding and subtraction of charges should not be something legally manipulated by banks. Every credit and debit should take place immediately, and cards should not work with no money on them, very simple.

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Maybe if people knew about holds and errrrr used credit with plenty of buffer like GEORGE said? Those that don't have enough money for a debit buffer should choose to prepay inside.

 

 

 

and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump.

 

This happens at a local Citgo station. Swipe card, credit or debit, how much gas would you like to purchase(press enter to fill).

Edited by wcnghj

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

 

Once the usury laws apply to overdraft lending, this will all go away.

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

 

I think it's not that simple. Usury laws in states that have them already apply to other forms of lending such as CCs. However, compounding overlimit fees and late fees that would have resulted in much higher all-in rates have no bearing on compliance with those laws, only actualy APRs are used. I don't see how it would be different with OD fees.

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

Agree with this. It's not the debit cards themselves, it's the after-the-fact "accounting" that banks do that is the real issue. That, and too many people being unaware of their need to be pro-active in avoiding that crap.

 

The whole debit concept is pretty straight forward and simple, and could be alot more consumer-friendly, it's just screwed up by those wanting to game it in their favor. (read: banks, etc.)

 

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

In theory, charging the full amount up front sounds good, and may even work quite often, but there are way too many scenarios that don't fit as neatly as desired.

 

As far as gas pumps go, I feel there should be a system that releases the hold within minutes of the transaction being completed.

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

Agree with this. It's not the debit cards themselves, it's the after-the-fact "accounting" that banks do that is the real issue. That, and too many people being unaware of their need to be pro-active in avoiding that crap.

 

The whole debit concept is pretty straight forward and simple, and could be alot more consumer-friendly, it's just screwed up by those wanting to game it in their favor. (read: banks, etc.)

 

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

In theory, charging the full amount up front sounds good, and may even work quite often, but there are way too many scenarios that don't fit as neatly as desired.

 

As far as gas pumps go, I feel there should be a system that releases the hold within minutes of the transaction being completed.

 

Whatever happened to the $1 ghost charge to verify the card then later removing it and placing the full amount for gas?

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and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump.

 

This happens at a local Citgo station. Swipe card, credit or debit, how much gas would you like to purchase(press enter to fill).

 

 

This is the way it should be, then every bank/credit union in town wouldn't have to have signs posted that say "notice if you pay-at-pump your debit card will have a hold for $75+ for several days...prepay inside to avoid"

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Whatever happened to the $1 ghost charge to verify the card then later removing it and placing the full amount for gas?

Many places do still do this, and this isn't so bad either. Just not all places do it, so unless you;re familiar with a gas station and the area, you don't know going in.

 

As an absolute minimum, I'd like to at least see consistency... everybody doing the same thing... whatever that may be.

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Whatever happened to the $1 ghost charge to verify the card then later removing it and placing the full amount for gas?

 

In the context of "tricks" and debit card overdrafts, that's probably worse.

 

All of the gas stations I frequent do a $1 verification authorization and then allow you to pump gas.

 

It frequently takes 3 or 4 days (one station averages about 8) before the correct amount is deducted from my bank account. Till that time I either have a $1 hold, or after 3 days of $1 it goes away and I have no holds.

 

If someone doesn't properly keep track of their transactions that charge appearing 8 days later can cause problems.

 

Yes, people need to learn to keep track of their own bank balances -- but I can't believe this is the limit of present technology.

 

If the fee revenue from overdrafts wasn't so easy for the banks, I'm sure we would have an instant adjustment and capture system that would prevent the float time.

 

Easy money from overdrafts holds back some consumer friendly innovation that would otherwise happen.

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Whatever happened to the $1 ghost charge to verify the card then later removing it and placing the full amount for gas?

Many places do still do this, and this isn't so bad either. Just not all places do it, so unless you;re familiar with a gas station and the area, you don't know going in.

 

As an absolute minimum, I'd like to at least see consistency... everybody doing the same thing... whatever that may be.

The rub there comes in if you mandate the $1 system, that's all the merchant is sure to get. They are then at risk of not getting the other $30. If you mandate a $50 or $75 pre auth then people who don't have $75 can't buy $30 worth the gas. Currently it's up to the merchant and or the processor to decide the level of risk/convenience they want.

I like the $1 pre auth because it doesn't tie up more than I've used, but I do see where a c store owner may loose some $.

No perfect system out there yet, as technology gets better I'm hoping Visa and MC offer instant batch for pay at the pump transactions AND DON'T CHARGE $0.10 per to the merchant. That way as soon as you hang up the pump it'll clear.

 

Like said above, if the hold is a huge issue you could walk inside. Like George I have a card with more than $10,000 available (though it's a check card) so the hold really doesn't matter to me.

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HOLDS CAN BE $1--->$100

 

Before the rise in prices...$1 or $50 was normal

 

Find a station that does $1 and be happy

 

The reason some places only do $1...all they are doing is checking to see if the account is OPEN

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Debit cards are not themselves the problem, it is the legalized loan sharking and fraudulent non-chronological accounting that banks are allowed to do.

 

Once the usury laws apply to overdraft lending, this will all go away.

 

Also, car rental agencies, hotels, etc. should be required to charge the entire rental agreement up front, and gas stations should prompt customers to input requested debit amount at the pump. Holds should be eliminated. There should only be charges, and refunds for unused services.

Since I never use a credit card that has less than $10,000 available for GAS...do a "HOLD" for $500 for all I care

 

(as long as it is gone in 72 hours or less)

+1 That's the way to do it.

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Cash may be "subprime" but if your alternative is possibly bouncing checks due to holds on your debit account then going inside and paying cash may not a be a bad idea after all.

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Cash may be "subprime" but if your alternative is possibly bouncing checks due to holds on your debit account then going inside and paying cash may not a be a bad idea after all.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd consider that pretty smart. Pro-active.

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Whatever happened to the $1 ghost charge to verify the card then later removing it and placing the full amount for gas?

Many places do still do this, and this isn't so bad either. Just not all places do it, so unless you;re familiar with a gas station and the area, you don't know going in.

 

As an absolute minimum, I'd like to at least see consistency... everybody doing the same thing... whatever that may be.

 

 

 

 

We travel through most of the states every year and have never had more than $1 hold at any kind of station. Not in CA,FL,NY,IL,TX,AR,LA,TN,OH,KY,MO,MI,GA,IA,WI,MT,WY,WA,OR,CT this year.

We used one in Chicago that people were claiming a $75 hold and we still only got the $1.

I wonder what the deal is?

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The exit fees should be illegal. Since when is okay for anyone to hold your money hostage? Since when is a checking/ira/savings account a contract? Another good reason to flee the big banks for smaller local institutions and CU's until they get their act in order.

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I've heard this before on various forums, and I believe certain banks mandate only $1 for debit gasoline holds, upon identifying their merchant type.

 

However, the only way to totally resolve this, is if holds are eliminated, and all points of sale request and require a specific charge amount prior to releasing the product, and/or a credit for any unused charges. And of course, cards should not work below zero, unless the user and the bank have entered into an additional credit limit agreement, without any fees, and at the prevailing credit card interest rate.

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And if certain banks impose just $1, don't for a second think it's to benefit the consumer.

 

They're expecting that you may or may not forget your gas purchase, and until that charge fully posts, you have a higher risk of going over the limit, then if they just requested and processed the total purchase amount immediately.

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The exit fees should be illegal. Since when is okay for anyone to hold your money hostage? Since when is a checking/ira/savings account a contract? Another good reason to flee the big banks for smaller local institutions and CU's until they get their act in order.

 

Nobody is holding the money hostage. The merchant doesn't have your money and the bank didn't put the hold on your account.

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I wasn't talking about holds. I'm talking about fees for when you want to change financial institutions.

A FEE FOR WHAT EXACTLY???

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I've heard this before on various forums, and I believe certain banks mandate only $1 for debit gasoline holds, upon identifying their merchant type.

It's merchant/processor related, issuers don't have any say.

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The last post in this topic was posted 4167 days ago. 

 

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