WECT TV, Wilmington, NC

[Grizzly Bear]

[b]This is the response I received after pointing out the flaws in her news story.

 

 

 

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=103...p;nav=menu157_2

 

[/

Let me begin by saying your disappointment is quite clear, and for that, I am sorry.

 

 

 

While I believe you raised some issues that are valid, I also believe you missed the point of the story. And whether we delivered that point according to the way your companies/businesses accept credit cards is up for debate.

 

 

 

The point of the story was to show the viewer how easy it is to use someone else's credit card without their permission. While Peter, our producer, had Frances Weller�€™s permission for the report, it clearly demonstrated that had he not had her permission, he could have used the card. Whether the card had my signature or a "flag" to see i.d., the store employees in three out of four stores required neither. However you view that, it's wrong.

 

 

 

We live in precarious times, and to be able to walk in a store and use someone else's credit card without their permission, is dangerous. Credit cards are stolen everyday. The card holder as well as the card issuer should have better protection than what was presented in our report. Honestly, how would you feel if someone stole your credit card and went on a shopping spree much like our producer's?

 

 

 

The report has inspired me to suggest to store employees who do not ask for my i.d. in the future to do so. It's for the businesses' benefit as well as mine.

 

 

 

Additionally, I have had many businesses ask for i-d when i am out using my personal credit card including lowes and walmart just yesterday....so i have to wonder whether if there is some inconsistancy and there is more merchant discretion at play.............additionally, what "good" reason is there for NOT checking id's in this precarious time? especially if merchants are held responsible for stolen goods?

 

 

 

If credit card companies frown on merchants checking ids and merchants are held responsible for stolen merchandise ....it would seem to me that credit card companies are holding merchants "hostage"??? why would you agree to this as a merchant...is seems un fair. in some of the research we did for the series...it was clear some big box stores such as home depot actually dedicate a section of their annual budget to writing off fraudent purchases.

 

 

 

Perhaps the report calls for a follow-up. Perhaps we can point out some of the concerns you raised. But I not cannot make that decision. That will be up to our news director.

 

 

 

I appreciate your comments and feedback.

 

 

 

Genevieve Barker

Edited May 19, 2009 by Grizzly Bear

[GEORGE]

MY DRIVER'S LICENSE IS A PERMIT TO DRIVE A CAR or TRUCK

 

IT IS NOT A PERMIT TO USE MY SIGNED CREDIT CARD

 

Is there some link for the story???

Edited May 19, 2009 by GEORGE

[Grizzly Bear]

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=103...&nav=menu15

[GEORGE]

ALREADY DONE HERE...

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=394732

[Grizzly Bear]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

[breeze]

re: deleted posts. Please do not call the reporters and cashiers ugly, demeaning names. Those posts will be deleted when I see them.

[GEORGE]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

Who is "SHE"

[FlyingRon]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

Who is "SHE"

 

 

How about Incontinentals, repetitive, incessant, often necroposted, non-sequitor, posts about his view of the credit card merchant agreements?

[GEORGE]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

Who is "SHE"

 

 

How about Incontinentals, repetitive, incessant, often necroposted, non-sequitor, posts about his view of the credit card merchant agreements?

SEE THE "SHE" in red???

 

(twice)

 

I asked a simple question...I THOUGHT

[Uncle Leo]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

Who is "SHE"

Genevieve Barker must be retrained at once. Obviously it is a major security and identity theft risk, extreme invasion of privacy, and a no-brainer to keep your ID to yourself. No reasonable adult would hand over their ID to some violating cashier on demand. The most important thing is making sure it never happens again, so if any violating merchant should ever pop-up in your community, make sure they are eliminated/brought back into line immediately - 1-800-VISA-911.

Why did you respond to George's post if you had no intention of answering his question?

[Uncle Leo]

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

Who is "SHE"

How about Incontinentals, repetitive, incessant, often necroposted, non-sequitor, posts about his view of the credit card merchant agreements?

SEE THE "SHE" in red???

 

(twice)

 

I asked a simple question...I THOUGHT

"She"... is the person who wrote the letter to the OP as quoted in the OP's first post.

[centex]

Thankfully, Tom Mahoney set her straight…

 

I think you need to do a bit of homework.

 

According to the terms of their contract with their processor, merchants are generally not permitted to ask for an ID. To quote from "Visa Rules For Merchants," -- "merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance ... Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures."

 

The only exception to this is if the card is not signed - including cards that say "See ID" in lieu of a signature. In that case, the merchant must request an ID and insist the card be signed before accepting it. A card without a signature is not valid. No exceptions.

 

Tom Mahoney, Director

Merchant911.org

Uniting merchants against fraud since 2001

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

 

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

 

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or photo ID.

 

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement. The contract MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

 

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

 

WHAT YOU CAN DO

 

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577 or call 1-800-300-3069. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine. You may also report violations online:

 

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

 

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that that issued your Visa card or call 1-800-VISA-911.

 

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

 

I find it rather interesting that you say Tom 'set them straight' when Tom also notes that ID CAN, in fact, be requested. The only prohibition is against conditioning the sale upon such presentation.

 

Maybe the no-ID nazis ought to spend some time and re-read the Agreements that they hold so sacred...and then proceed to take out of context.

[GEORGE]

[Grizzly Bear]

Most merchants who ask for ID will still require it when a customer refuses.

[thelowpriceleader]

I have encountered a number of merchants who have tried a policy of "ask for ID, but still process transaction if customer refuses to show ID." This just never, ever works. The employees don't get it, and neither do the managers. They end up refusing to process and continuing to require the ID, resulting in additional complaints and violations. Ultimately, they give up and just stop asking for the ID entirely.

 

Really, I don't get it either. If ID isn't required, why waste everyone's time asking them for it when you are still going to process the transaction anyway without it? It doesn't make much sense.

 

The point is most people don't like these rules and disagree with them. It is like the person I argued with yesterday about not signing her card. She insisted she would "never" sign her cards, even after I told her she would be liable for all fraud. Simply did not care.

[GEORGE]

I have encountered a number of merchants who have tried a policy of "ask for ID, but still process transaction if customer refuses to show ID." This just never, ever works. The employees don't get it, and neither do the managers. They end up refusing to process and continuing to require the ID, resulting in additional complaints and violations. Ultimately, they give up and just stop asking for the ID entirely.

 

Really, I don't get it either. If ID isn't required, why waste everyone's time asking them for it when you are still going to process the transaction anyway without it? It doesn't make much sense.

 

The point is most people don't like these rules and disagree with them. It is like the person I argued with yesterday about not signing her card. She insisted she would "never" sign her cards, even after I told her she would be liable for all fraud. Simply did not care.

...and she is using a VOID card

[Uncle Leo]

I have encountered a number of merchants who have tried a policy of "ask for ID, but still process transaction if customer refuses to show ID." This just never, ever works. The employees don't get it, and neither do the managers. They end up refusing to process and continuing to require the ID, resulting in additional complaints and violations. Ultimately, they give up and just stop asking for the ID entirely.

 

Really, I don't get it either. If ID isn't required, why waste everyone's time asking them for it when you are still going to process the transaction anyway without it? It doesn't make much sense.

 

The point is most people don't like these rules and disagree with them. It is like the person I argued with yesterday about not signing her card. She insisted she would "never" sign her cards, even after I told her she would be liable for all fraud. Simply did not care.

I question whether "most" people dislike these rules. I'd bet that if a scientific poll were done from the overall population that most, or at least around half, actually believe ID checking to be doing them a favor. With most of the rest being ambivalent about it.

[Grizzly Bear]

What amazes me is that so many businesses are willing to write off whatever percentage of the population that has a real problem with it.

Suppose it is only 5-10%, a business willing to write of that percent of customers is really shooting itself in the foot.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Grizzly Bear

[GEORGE]

IF YOU FEEL REAL SPECIAL BY SHOWING ID...GO FOR IT

 

My license to drive stays in my wallet that stays in my pocket

[thelowpriceleader]

I've informed a lot of people I know about this ID requirement being against the acceptance rules. Some people I know think that is stupid, and they should be allowed to ID, etc. Others I know become very interested when they hear it is against the rules. One person who I discussed it with recently said "wow, I'm going to refuse to show it to them next time someone asks for it." No, I did not suggest they do that beforehand.

[Uncle Leo]

What amazes me is that so many businesses are willing to write off whatever percentage of the population that has a real problem with it.

Suppose it is only 5-10%, a business willing to write of that percent of customers is really shooting itself in the foot.

Pretty much any business ticks off some percentage of their potential customer base no matter what they do. I'd be honestly surprised if this issue alone made a significant dent in that. I'd bet that the bigger issues for businesses are rude employees, customers with a "customer is always right" sense of entitlement, and so on.

[Grizzly Bear]

No one has really researched it though. It's not on their radar screen. You've got to think that some people think as many of us on this website do, and even a small percentage is significant to a company's bottom line. And it's a relatively simple thing to follow the rules as most businesses do. Somebody really ought to do market research on it.

[GEORGE]

I've informed a lot of people I know about this ID requirement being against the acceptance rules. Some people I know think that is stupid, and they should be allowed to ID, etc. Others I know become very interested when they hear it is against the rules. One person who I discussed it with recently said "wow, I'm going to refuse to show it to them next time someone asks for it." No, I did not suggest they do that beforehand.

My license to drive was signed almost 20 years ago (US MAIL RENEWAL)

 

What is more accurate...the signature on the back of the card that was signed in the past 3 years or a 20 YEAR OLD DRIVER'S LICENSE

 

[GEORGE]

I've informed a lot of people I know about this ID requirement being against the acceptance rules. Some people I know think that is stupid, and they should be allowed to ID, etc. Others I know become very interested when they hear it is against the rules. One person who I discussed it with recently said "wow, I'm going to refuse to show it to them next time someone asks for it." No, I did not suggest they do that beforehand.

ID can't be required as a condition of sale PER CREDIT CARD POLICY

 

Had they wanted a business to ask for ID why did they put a signature stip on the back of the card...and expect a business to make the sale as easy and quick as possible (one reason they have approvals that take 1 to 5 seconds)...NOT 5 minutes

[GEORGE]

No one has really researched it though. It's not on their radar screen. You've got to think that some people think as many of us on this website do, and even a small percentage is significant to a company's bottom line. And it's a relatively simple thing to follow the rules as most businesses do. Somebody really ought to do market research on it.

...as with the HATE WALMART CROWD (think sheep)...some have been told to put CID and give drivers license to protect them...but they are never given the rest of the story

 

THE CARD IS VOID

 

THEY CAN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FRAUD CHARGES

 

Helping with ID THEFT

 

The 30+ year old cashier now knows where your 15 year old HOTTIE GIRL lives and comes to visit for a date

 

Not saying all cashiers are bad (very few are)...but you forced the cashier to take your driver's license...NOW HE KNOWS WHERE THAT $2,000 of stuff is going to be in an hour (or less)

 

...maybe it is not about the current stuff...maybe he/she has a friend that needs to rob some place to get money for drugs...he/she calls their buddy and tells them you are at the store and they have 10 minutes to get in and out

 

JUST SAYING... (as somebody here says all the time)

 

I don't even give my address to people I work with (not that I fear them)...I am just a private guy

 

Some of them know where I live because they took me home because my car was broken...but not everybody knows the exact address

 

Many know the general area...(many ask because their car is in the shop and need a ride home...and don't want anybody to go out of their way)

Edited May 25, 2009 by GEORGE