My version of the 1-2punch, invoking the FCRA and FDCPA

[Keith Dempsey]

I completely agree with you Jen, great stuff.

 

While I hope I never have to go to court, I am proceeding like I am going to end up there with every single creditor. Just telling the CA / OC that they are wrong in a general way is not enough. To prove they willfully are breaking the law in court I am going to need to show the judge what was wrong and the fact that the CA/OC knew it was wrong because I had plainly spelled it out for them.

 

As far as reading the laws, they need to put courses in High School to learn to read this stuff. I have an eaier time with Spanish . But it must be done. I remember the good ole days when my grandmother had Readers Digest in the bathroom. Those where quick reads. Let's just say I spend way more time on the toilet then I did a few years ago haha

[Jen23514]

Hello everyone, been reading yellowrose post for a long minute now. I find it very helpful and beneficial to me. What I need to know is......what letter can I send to the CRA's to dispute a CA reporting my account as a DF? I already have my letter ready to send to the about this. Should I wait to see if they delete first before disputing with the CRA or do both? Thanks, for any help given. 239Dyme in Florida

 

Post a letter and we'll critique it.... there are no magical letters.

[EarnIt]

ttt

[drew3918]

I completely agree with you Jen, great stuff.

 

While I hope I never have to go to court, I am proceeding like I am going to end up there with every single creditor. Just telling the CA / OC that they are wrong in a general way is not enough. To prove they willfully are breaking the law in court I am going to need to show the judge what was wrong and the fact that the CA/OC knew it was wrong because I had plainly spelled it out for them.

 

As far as reading the laws, they need to put courses in High School to learn to read this stuff. I have an eaier time with Spanish . But it must be done. I remember the good ole days when my grandmother had Readers Digest in the bathroom. Those where quick reads. Let's just say I spend way more time on the toilet then I did a few years ago haha

 

 

Dropping the kids off at the pool I have found is a great time to read

[Jen23514]

um, thanks?

[drew3918]

friendly bump for Jen

[Jen23514]

friendly bump for Jen

 

 

awwwww

[BButrell]

Here's a question I can't find an answer to:

 

If I dispute a debt with the CRA, and after that, the CA contacts me and I contact them back w/DV, does the 30 days start from their contact, or from mine? Which party has given first communication? I ask because the good folks at Portfolio Recovery have "verified" their debt with me after I disputed w/the CRAs, but I see nothing saying I have the right to dispute it. There is a disputes address on the back, but that's all.

[EarnIt]

DV them. If they haven't dunned you, the 30 days has not started. Make sure you state in your letter that they have never dunned you but are verifying inaccurate information.

[BButrell]

Drat. That's going to be a lot of dunning, then.

 

How's this:

 

Re: Response to Experian, Equifax and TransUnion inquiry on account #xxx

 

Thank you for your response to my inquiry. However, you have provided no useful information regarding this account. Therefore, in my first written letter directly to your company, I am disputing this alleged debt in its entirety.

Edited August 12, 2008 by BButrell

[EarnIt]

Truthfully, I would spend a bit more time reading before DV'ing. Make sure you read the FDCPA and FRCA. Read newbies section and psycdocs seminars.

[BButrell]

I've read over them for months. I have them printed and put in a folder. I've practically memorized the Texas Finance Code. At this point, it's going to make as much (or as little) sense to me as it did yesterday.

 

In the meantime, I've been denied a mortgage and numerous credit cards (my fault for applying), and had to pay double for my apartment deposit, nearly $400 for my utility deposit, and don't get me started on cards that "build your credit." I honestly don't have "a bit more time." I've done very well with the accounts I've disputed and had removed, and I've learned a lot here. But when I'm shaky or something doesn't stick, I'm not ashamed to ask for help. If the above is fine, say so. If not, please say why. I don't think that's asking for too much.

Edited August 12, 2008 by BButrell

[ICANHASMUNY?]

ya beat me to it Jen *LOL*

 

you gave more info

 

 

Honestly..... my first 6 (12?) months here, NONE of this would have made sense. You really do have to wait for the lightbulb moment.

 

I can not stress enough that the quickest way to do that is to print out (sorry trees) the FDCPA and FCRA and sit down and READ. There are quite a few threads from 2003ish that really tackle many of the sections around here, you just have to search. If you don't find it, I would love people to post which section they are struggling with or FTC opinion or whatever.

 

 

 

more excellent advice...

 

heck...bring it with you on the bus/train...while sitting on the toilet...during a particularly boring meeting at work (you'll impress the boss by looking like you're REALLY into it *LOL*)...have a highlighter with you...actually two...one yellow...one green...highlight the important sections in one color...the other color use for the sections you don't understand....and ask here.....

 

 

What a Great Thread! love ur letter.

 

What I found helpful in understanding all the legalese was the FTC staff opinion letters and the commentary on the FDCPA. It's the Questions and answers in the letters & the notes from the staff that explain specifics.

 

Then look up all the cases mentioned, then google FDCPA lawsuits. then read the AZ statutes and the UCC,......

 

They should really extend the statute of limitations to 2 years on the FDCPA; If you're working, it takes a year to understand it all.......

 

 

But Again, great post!

 

 

[BButrell]

I've read over them for months. I have them printed and put in a folder. I've practically memorized the Texas Finance Code. At this point, it's going to make as much (or as little) sense to me as it did yesterday.

 

Here's something for irony...as I was staring at PsychDoc's for the 40th time, letting the words swim around and make pretty pictures, I think something DID just click in my head. Here's how I think the timeline is supposed to go:

 

- I dispute Portfolio (the collection agency disguised as a factoring company) w/CRA

- CRA confirmed the doggone debt is mine

- Portfolio writes back and pulls a Goodfellas act ("F--k you, pay me!")

- At this time, I'm asking Portfolio to verify/validate the debt or delete it

- Portfolio pulls something out of its butt, Photoshops it, and sends it to me

- I write back w/violations (Porfolio=violations) and at this point, dispute the debt

- Portfolio tells me to kiss off

- I write ITS letter, then settlement letter, ready to get my sue on

 

With that in mind, the opening of this letter should be more like this:

 

Thank you for your response to my inquiry. Because I am unaware of any account or debt to your company, please provide me with the following information:

 

* The amount of money due to your company

* the amount of credit your company has extended to me, as this account is marked as "open"

* that this alleged debt is payable to you

* the date of last activity reported by your company

* that you are a factoring company, as reported to TransUnion

* that you are a collection agency, as reported by Equifax and Experian

* that you are allowed by law to collect debt as both a factoring company and a collection agency

* that you are allowed by law to collect interest on this account

* that this dispute has been "resolved" as "reported by grantor," as reported to TransUnion

 

Am I on the right track now? Please tell me I am! I hate it when I think I "got it" just to find out that I don't. Also, should I ask this much from a CA, or are these the kinds of violations reported to a CRA?

Edited August 12, 2008 by BButrell

[pryan67]

by George I think he's got it *LOL*

 

 

one important thing though....if you're not willing and able to follow through with it...don't send an ITS...they know that most people are bluffing...

[BButrell]

by George I think he's got it *LOL*

 

 

But I've listed nine bullets...is that too many? Does it show that I know more than they think? Do any of these classify for immediate deletion?

 

one important thing though....if you're not willing and able to follow through with it...don't send an ITS...they know that most people are bluffing...

 

Oh, I absolutely intend to sue if it comes down to that. I've contacted a couple of lawyers (for another case, not this one), and I like the vibe I'm getting off one of them, who responded right away, waived his consultation fee and asked for more documentation before he gave me his basic opinion. Heck, if this goes well, he can attack everybody in my entire file - God knows I'm sick of it. The only killer is putting money up front. When you get less than $650/month from disability, $1,000-$1,250 can really mess up your finances.

Edited August 12, 2008 by BButrell

[pryan67]

many attorneys will take the cases on contingency...so you shouldn't be out any money...

 

 

ALL of your bullets should be slam dunks for deletion...IF the CAs were interested in following the law...

 

unfortunately, they're not

[BButrell]

Thanks, pryan67. The next step was sleeping with PsychDoc's seminars under my pillow and hoping that I could learn through osmosis.

[drew3918]

Thanks, pryan67. The next step was sleeping with PsychDoc's seminars under my pillow and hoping that I could learn through osmosis.

 

Keep up the good fight

[Guest grendel]

I've read over them for months. I have them printed and put in a folder. I've practically memorized the Texas Finance Code. At this point, it's going to make as much (or as little) sense to me as it did yesterday.

 

Here's something for irony...as I was staring at PsychDoc's for the 40th time, letting the words swim around and make pretty pictures, I think something DID just click in my head. Here's how I think the timeline is supposed to go:

 

- I dispute Portfolio (the collection agency disguised as a factoring company) w/CRA

- CRA confirmed the doggone debt is mine

- Portfolio writes back and pulls a Goodfellas act ("F--k you, pay me!")

- At this time, I'm asking Portfolio to verify/validate the debt or delete it

- Portfolio pulls something out of its butt, Photoshops it, and sends it to me

- I write back w/violations (Porfolio=violations) and at this point, dispute the debt

- Portfolio tells me to kiss off

- I write ITS letter, then settlement letter, ready to get my sue on

 

With that in mind, the opening of this letter should be more like this:

 

Thank you for your response to my inquiry. Because I am unaware of any account or debt to your company, please provide me with the following information:

 

* The amount of money due to your company

* the amount of credit your company has extended to me, as this account is marked as "open"

* that this alleged debt is payable to you

* the date of last activity reported by your company

* that you are a factoring company, as reported to TransUnion

* that you are a collection agency, as reported by Equifax and Experian

* that you are allowed by law to collect debt as both a factoring company and a collection agency

* that you are allowed by law to collect interest on this account

* that this dispute has been "resolved" as "reported by grantor," as reported to TransUnion

 

Am I on the right track now? Please tell me I am! I hate it when I think I "got it" just to find out that I don't. Also, should I ask this much from a CA, or are these the kinds of violations reported to a CRA?

 

 

Actually, when I coined the phrase 1-2 Punchout it was the other way around.

 

Step 1 ("left hook")

 

Dispute with the CA, wait for the green card back. (This locks them until they validate.)

 

 

Step 2 ("right hook")

 

Dispute with the CRA. If they "verify" then that's a violation. The 30 days is the time frame the CRA is investigating. Most CA's can't even validate in that 30 day time frame, but will always "verify". It's almost an instant violation.

 

"Punch Out"

Inform Furnisher they violated your rights by "verifying" without proper validation. Sue if they don't delete. Go after CRA for improper due care in their investigation, using the procedural request as a hook for a Lawsuit or a deletion path.

 

Get Deletions. Get Cash.

 

BTW, give them all the information you can. Just be careful, as validation can vary. There is some precedent out there as to what it is.

Edited August 13, 2008 by grendel

[BButrell]

Actually, when I coined the phrase 1-2 Punchout it was the other way around.

 

I finally got that figured out, although I remember reading over and over (not here) that

 

1) you had to dispute w/the CRA first, OR

2) you had to wait 30 days after DVing with the OC to dispute w/the CRAs.

 

Since this is the first time I'm disputing Portfolio directly, I plan to do it exactly as grendel said. I made the mistake of dropping all my first round of letters off at once, and I think Sears and that godawful NCO Financial is going to be spared because of it, even though they haven't gotten back to me yet. I mailed on 19th; CMRRR shows Sears and Equifax received letters on the same day, with TU and EX getting theirs the next day. In Texas, we report to CSC, and CSC mailed me a letter on the 17th asking for my information. (I guess I had another pending investigation.) Had I CMRRRed that one, I may be off the hook. (CMRRR, people! Don't be lazy, not even once!) Still, Sears has yet to stay anything (nor are they reporting as disputed).

 

I disputed with three bureaus and four OC/CAs on the 19th: Sears, USAA Bank, RJM and OSI Collections, which was reporting the same debts to the CRAs as MAF Collections (both open accounts!) RJM and OSI (CAs) deleted, USAA (OC) sent me a copy of a credit card application from 2000 & called that verification, and Sears/CBSD (OC) is still pending.

 

With the CRAs, I disputed a slew of companies. Results:

 

ASSET ACCEPTANCE LLC, CA

RJM ACQUISITIONS LLC/ RJ

LVNV FUNDING LLC

NCO FINANCIAL

PORTFOLIO RECOVERY

 

Reason: Our beloved factory agencies - I mean collection companies - I mean...ah, forget it.

 

Updates:

RJM - deleted, no letter of deletion

 

LVNV FUNDING LLC - deleted, no letter of deletion

 

NCO FINANCIAL - pending as of July 21

 

PORTFOLIO RECOVERY - "verified" 8/7 w/FYPM letter. (think "Goodfellas"), and charging interest. I thought Recker v Central Collection Bureau, Inc stated that you can't send a letter that verifies and attempts to collect debt in the same letter. Or is this one of those misunderstood, overly quoted cases that nobody really read closely?

 

ASSET: For some reason, this one isn't being disputed. It's the first debt I list on my letter, but when I called Experian to ask about it when I got my most recent reports (BAD idea, I know), I was told that it wasn't being disputed, and did I want to place a dispute? I said no, of course.

 

Next step:

Portfolio - 1-2 Punch

Asset & NCO - Quietly hoping for a 30 day deletes; if not, write DVs

 

WFNNB/VICTORIAS SECRET

Reason: Closed on my Experian report, but open/paid as agreed on my Equifax report.

 

Update: pending as of Jul 21, not reporting as disputed on EX. EX person said that VS has already responded and is "waiting," but s/he didn't say what they were waiting for and why they haven't sent me anything yet.

 

Next step: Wait for communication.

 

MAF COLLECTION SERVICES

UNITED COLLECTION SERVICES

 

Reason: No bond in Texas

 

Updates: UCS - pending as of 7/21

MAF - Talking to a lawyer as we speak. I think 13 letters from July 24th constitutes as harrassment. (I have them scanned and hosted; if anyone wants to look them over, I would greatly appreciate it.) When Bud Hibbs tells you to get a lawyer, that's not small talk.

 

MISER CREDIT UNION

 

Reason: who the hell are you people?

 

Update: Verified. Had to file w/BBB because I am so sick of these people not talking to me at all, not even after sending TWO PFDs (it's only $23). I know they don't have to take a PFD, but I need to know how an account was open in one state when I was visiting the other all that month?

 

So you can see it's a bit of a mixed bag. 2/1/1 w/creditor directly, and 2/3/3 (with one no dispute) w/CRAs. But with grendel's 1-2 punch, I know I stand a much better chance of the CAs slipping up, instead of tapping my fingers and wondering what the hell is taking so long. Additionally - and I didn't know this - contacting the CRAs, even if the CAs write you back, does NOT count toward your first 30 days unless they send a dunning letter. D'OH!!!!

 

In the meantime, I have letters to write to Portfolio and USAA, both of which I believe are 1-2 punches - Portfolio being a DV and USAA being a dispute of debt. Gee, if every company that I've applied for credit with decides to slap trade lines on my report, I am SCREWED!

Edited August 13, 2008 by BButrell

[jack1212]

great one Jen.....

 

Let us never forget the "Data Furnisher" route in FCRA 623.

 

Subcribing...

 

Jack1212

[jim5518]

Jen maybe you can help me on my next step.I used a form of the letter in the first page.Made it fit my situation with Pinnacle.Wrote the letter put it in an envelope and was going to mail it when I got back from a trip.My wife saw it sent it off CMRR. Pinnacle deleted from Equ and TU.Experian updated. Now its 40 days later I have the green card. My question is is it to late to mail the dispute to Experian using the second part of the punch. Or should I try to dispute that Pinnacle didnt answer the first DV.

[Guest grendel]

Jen maybe you can help me on my next step.I used a form of the letter in the first page.Made it fit my situation with Pinnacle.Wrote the letter put it in an envelope and was going to mail it when I got back from a trip.My wife saw it sent it off CMRR. Pinnacle deleted from Equ and TU.Experian updated. Now its 40 days later I have the green card. My question is is it to late to mail the dispute to Experian using the second part of the punch. Or should I try to dispute that Pinnacle didnt answer the first DV.

 

I am not Jen, but I've had a hand or three in deletions.

 

I would send a follow up to Pinnacle, stating they deleted from two, the law requires all three. They can't validate the debt as yours, reporting the debt or responding to the CRA is continued collection activity. Then dispute with Experian, as they will probably "verify"... you could then sue Experian, but Pinnacle will probably delete it.

[jim5518]

Jen maybe you can help me on my next step.I used a form of the letter in the first page.Made it fit my situation with Pinnacle.Wrote the letter put it in an envelope and was going to mail it when I got back from a trip.My wife saw it sent it off CMRR. Pinnacle deleted from Equ and TU.Experian updated. Now its 40 days later I have the green card. My question is is it to late to mail the dispute to Experian using the second part of the punch. Or should I try to dispute that Pinnacle didnt answer the first DV.

 

I am not Jen, but I've had a hand or three in deletions.

 

I would send a follow up to Pinnacle, stating they deleted from two, the law requires all three. They can't validate the debt as yours, reporting the debt or responding to the CRA is continued collection activity. Then dispute with Experian, as they will probably "verify"... you could then sue Experian, but Pinnacle will probably delete it.

Thanks Im not complaining about it being deleted from 2.Was looking for the best way to get it off Experian.I appreciate your advice.Thanks Jim