White house reaches mortgage deals

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

[cedski]

should the investors holding these loans receive some tax payer money?

 

hmmmmmm if a house doesn't forclose and the consumer continues to make payments well then........i guess something is better than nothing......do you play black jack hege? Are you familiar with the term surrendering your bet......thats all this is.

[cedski]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

[hurricanesfans27]

should the investors holding these loans receive some tax payer money?

 

hmmmmmm if a house doesn't forclose and the consumer continues to make payments well then........i guess something is better than nothing......do you play black jack hege? Are you familiar with the term surrendering your bet......thats all this is.

 

 

 

agreed ... something is better than nothing. if investors wanted a safe investment they could go to passbook accounts or t bills.

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

[hegemony]

should the investors holding these loans receive some tax payer money?

 

hmmmmmm if a house doesn't forclose and the consumer continues to make payments well then........i guess something is better than nothing......do you play black jack hege? Are you familiar with the term surrendering your bet......thats all this is.

well to paraphrase one commentator on this "bailout"

 

this is good politics but bad public policy.

[cedski]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

Edited December 9, 2007 by hegemony

[cedski]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

 

The government intervened a while ago when the fed injected money into the capitol markets......funny i didn't see you posting about that? Did you benefit in any fashion from that? If you have a 401k or ANY stock....then yes you did....I think it's an assumption that there is real intervention on the behalf of the govt......when more loans are modified than the 5% currently allowed...by most investment groups...and there is an adverse affect on the market you will have an argument. This was not and is not a law.......this is an agreement between private industry and the government.....to make a political statement.....and to braodly publicize what has been going on for years......it's called loss mitigation......there is a pinned thread above and most of the pro's have mentioned this at least once in the last 6 months......in other words hege........it's nothing new......

 

You keep mentioning the market is worse off with out it......I have presented facts.....you have presented.....hype........please support your arguement with hard numbers....

[hurricanesfans27]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

 

The government intervened a while ago when the fed injected money into the capitol markets......funny i didn't see you posting about that? Did you benefit in any fashion from that? If you have a 401k or ANY stock....then yes you did....I think it's an assumption that there is real intervention on the behalf of the govt......when more loans are modified than the 5% currently allowed...by most investment groups...and there is an adverse affect on the market you will have an argument. This was not and is not a law.......this is an agreement between private industry and the government.....to make a political statement.....and to braodly publicize what has been going on for years......it's called loss mitigation......there is a pinned thread above and most of the pro's have mentioned this at least once in the last 6 months......in other words hege........it's nothing new......

 

You keep mentioning the market is worse off with out it......I have presented facts.....you have presented.....hype........please support your arguement with hard numbers....

 

exactly ... had the fed not intervened with cash when it did the DOW would be sitting less than 10k now. Thats far more intervention than this joke of a housing rescue is.

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

 

The government intervened a while ago when the fed injected money into the capitol markets......funny i didn't see you posting about that? Did you benefit in any fashion from that? If you have a 401k or ANY stock....then yes you did....I think it's an assumption that there is real intervention on the behalf of the govt......when more loans are modified than the 5% currently allowed...by most investment groups...and there is an adverse affect on the market you will have an argument. This was not and is not a law.......this is an agreement between private industry and the government.....to make a political statement.....and to braodly publicize what has been going on for years......it's called loss mitigation......there is a pinned thread above and most of the pro's have mentioned this at least once in the last 6 months......in other words hege........it's nothing new......

 

You keep mentioning the market is worse off with out it......I have presented facts.....you have presented.....hype........please support your arguement with hard numbers....

 

never mind. I forgot one must conform to the prevailing broker opinions to venture into the mortgage forum. heaven forbid someone think that the market should work itself out on this issue, especially given the limited "help" this will offer people. and where did I ever claim this was a "law" or anything as such? where did I say it was anything "new?" I didn't start this thread. I did say it is a political move and is bad public policy. perhaps if you took time to read about moral hazards you'd understand why it is not good public policy.

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

 

The government intervened a while ago when the fed injected money into the capitol markets......funny i didn't see you posting about that? Did you benefit in any fashion from that? If you have a 401k or ANY stock....then yes you did....I think it's an assumption that there is real intervention on the behalf of the govt......when more loans are modified than the 5% currently allowed...by most investment groups...and there is an adverse affect on the market you will have an argument. This was not and is not a law.......this is an agreement between private industry and the government.....to make a political statement.....and to braodly publicize what has been going on for years......it's called loss mitigation......there is a pinned thread above and most of the pro's have mentioned this at least once in the last 6 months......in other words hege........it's nothing new......

 

You keep mentioning the market is worse off with out it......I have presented facts.....you have presented.....hype........please support your arguement with hard numbers....

 

never mind. I forgot one must conform to the prevailing broker opinions to venture into the mortgage forum. heaven forbid someone think that the market should work itself out on this issue, especially given the limited "help" this will offer people. and where did I ever claim this was a "law" or anything as such? where did I say it was anything "new?" I didn't start this thread. I did say it is a political move and is bad public policy. perhaps if you took time to read about moral hazards you'd understand why it is not good public policy.

[hegemony]

Most servicers have the ability to modify up to 5% of the loans they service with out violating the terms of the servicing agreement........This has already been going on and has been going on for years........usually into a fixed rate product or through the extention of the lower introductory rate.......So in reality this is nothing earth shattering........and from a political perspective.......BOTH parties have been screaming for something to happen......so why don't we leave the politics out of it......agree with it or not......anyone who has a 401k........and I do mean anyone...... has benefitted from the fed dumping money into the the markets........has it devalued the dollar.......yes......however the market is still trading over 13k or would those of you who don't like this action like to see the market tank down into the 7-8k range again and lose 40-50% of the equity in your 401k's......sorry if this seems like a rant........however I have seen a lot of posts that sound a lot like my kids........he got something I didn't get.........

 

look up real versus nominal...

 

real vs nominal what?

the market might trade at 40,000 but if the dollar falls in real terms a 40,000 DOW can be worth less in real dollars than a 5,000 dow.

 

Thats a great out of this world comparison.......however this kind of sentiment is only a valid arguement when it is the press looking to make headlines or to someone who does not have a clue as to how money works....so when it hapeens feel free to throw this quote back at me........the market will recover like it did after 9/11 and after the mid 80's......

the housing market will recover too with or without this gov't intervention. it is not needed and the market is worse off with it.

 

The government intervened a while ago when the fed injected money into the capitol markets......funny i didn't see you posting about that? Did you benefit in any fashion from that? If you have a 401k or ANY stock....then yes you did....I think it's an assumption that there is real intervention on the behalf of the govt......when more loans are modified than the 5% currently allowed...by most investment groups...and there is an adverse affect on the market you will have an argument. This was not and is not a law.......this is an agreement between private industry and the government.....to make a political statement.....and to braodly publicize what has been going on for years......it's called loss mitigation......there is a pinned thread above and most of the pro's have mentioned this at least once in the last 6 months......in other words hege........it's nothing new......

 

You keep mentioning the market is worse off with out it......I have presented facts.....you have presented.....hype........please support your arguement with hard numbers....

 

exactly ... had the fed not intervened with cash when it did the DOW would be sitting less than 10k now. Thats far more intervention than this joke of a housing rescue is.

I wish the dow was a 10K then I could buy more shares.

[cedski]

never mind. I forgot one must conform to the prevailing broker opinions to venture into the mortgage forum. heaven forbid someone think that the market should work itself out on this issue, especially given the limited "help" this will offer people. and where did I ever claim this was a "law" or anything as such? where did I say it was anything "new?" I didn't start this thread. I did say it is a political move and is bad public policy. perhaps if you took time to read about moral hazards you'd understand why it is not good public policy.

 

Oh here we go with the one must conform........I never said anywhere that I agree with the policy......as a broker why would I want less business? This agreement means there will be less business.......I think you made an assumption here that us "brokers" agree with the agreemtn when in fact it will directly affect our income by reducing the number of people who will need to refi out of there ARMS......I can tell you for a fact that my industry on the origination end of the business........will in fact suffer a loss in income and in jobs.......I know of offices who have spent thousands of dollars in direct mail etc...........who will see less return on there investment......So in what way does all of this change anything.....you talk about public policy..well if the policy has already been in place......and in this case it has......all that is happening is that more emphasis is being put on it......it's really that simple.....but lets take a look at some numbers.....maybe a dose of reality is what is needed.

 

Lets use as an example 10 foreclosures......all on ARMS.......the avg cost to foreclose ie legal fee's realtors commissions etc........being 25k per house......that 250k for 10 homes in unrecoverable losses. If the avg house is 180k and you use a teaser rate of say 6% your IO payment is 900 a month.........if you adjust that rate to 10%(most are capped with a 3% adjustment so this is an exaggeration) the payment goes to 1500 a month or a difference of 600 a month in interest payments.......it takes 41 months to make up the 25k the lender is losing in foreclosure.......now the accurate number is actually closer to about 450 a month increase in payment.......so as an investor.......would you be willing to continue accepting 900 a month from 1% of your loan or lose 25000 per forclosed home......1 forclosure wipes out ALL of a months interest generated from 25 homes.....its basic math...........the guidelines have been in place for a while and it makes sense.......

[hurricanesfans27]

the problem is theyve been losing about 50k per foreclosure so the writedowns by the banks and brokerage houses so far have been monstrous and projected to get worse this quarter and next.

[cedski]

the problem is theyve been losing about 50k per foreclosure so the writedowns by the banks and brokerage houses so far have been monstrous and projected to get worse this quarter and next.

 

The real numbers are closer to 50k.......however even using half that number....which is what I did...... it clearly makes sense to try and keep more mortages in place than it does to let them foreclose........

[hurricanesfans27]

the problem is theyve been losing about 50k per foreclosure so the writedowns by the banks and brokerage houses so far have been monstrous and projected to get worse this quarter and next.

 

The real numbers are closer to 50k.......however even using half that number....which is what I did...... it clearly makes sense to try and keep more mortages in place than it does to let them foreclose........

 

it definitely makes sense.

[hoapres]

the problem is theyve been losing about 50k per foreclosure so the writedowns by the banks and brokerage houses so far have been monstrous and projected to get worse this quarter and next.

 

The real numbers are closer to 50k.......however even using half that number....which is what I did...... it clearly makes sense to try and keep more mortages in place than it does to let them foreclose........

 

it definitely makes sense.

 

Playing devil's advocate of sorts.

 

No doubt avoiding foreclosure makes sense. If (perhaps only a theoretical possibility as I really don't believe that many borrowers get assistance) I am a private investor holding 2/28 or 3/27 mortgages then most likely I am going to VOLUNTARLY make the modifications that the government is proposing. (Or something similar). (A moot point being if it is voluntary) If the government told me as a private investor (again not likely since these mortgages are held by corporations) that I had to give an interest rate reduction then I (assuming that I was so upset with the government) might take the attitude that the government can not legally rewrite the contract and see you in court. Again, not a likely possibility but I suspect one of the reasons that more pronounced government action is the spectre of litigation.

[sm863]

government to the rescue is right. i think this is pandering to voters especially in an election year. the lenders are completely responsible for this and now they are asking unlce sam to bail them out. the market should takes its course but like always we pass the bill to our kids!! this makes me sick!!

From what i have read, most lenders oppose this. Not in favor.

[hegemony]

Oh here we go with the one must conform........I never said anywhere that I agree with the policy......as a broker why would I want less business? This agreement means there will be less business.......I think you made an assumption here that us "brokers" agree with the agreemtn when in fact it will directly affect our income by reducing the number of people who will need to refi out of there ARMS......I can tell you for a fact that my industry on the origination end of the business........will in fact suffer a loss in income and in jobs.......I know of offices who have spent thousands of dollars in direct mail etc...........who will see less return on there investment......So in what way does all of this change anything.....you talk about public policy..well if the policy has already been in place......and in this case it has......all that is happening is that more emphasis is being put on it......it's really that simple.....but lets take a look at some numbers.....maybe a dose of reality is what is needed.

 

Lets use as an example 10 foreclosures......all on ARMS.......the avg cost to foreclose ie legal fee's realtors commissions etc........being 25k per house......that 250k for 10 homes in unrecoverable losses. If the avg house is 180k and you use a teaser rate of say 6% your IO payment is 900 a month.........if you adjust that rate to 10%(most are capped with a 3% adjustment so this is an exaggeration) the payment goes to 1500 a month or a difference of 600 a month in interest payments.......it takes 41 months to make up the 25k the lender is losing in foreclosure.......now the accurate number is actually closer to about 450 a month increase in payment.......so as an investor.......would you be willing to continue accepting 900 a month from 1% of your loan or lose 25000 per forclosed home......1 forclosure wipes out ALL of a months interest generated from 25 homes.....its basic math...........the guidelines have been in place for a while and it makes sense.......

cedski, I was not attacking any industry for this. the common theme in my comments was that this creates a moral hazard which might be bad for the market in the long run. please stop suggesting I said anything about brokers agreeing with the program. I don't think I mentioned brokers at all.

[CallMeJo]

Wow! I'm gone for a few weeks & a big cat fight breaks out!

 

I really don't think that this "foreclosure prevention plan" is really going to help as many as one might first think.

 

Here are the provisions: http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/08/real_estat...sion=2007120909

 

This is a 5 year freeze on interest rate hikes for some subprime borrowers with adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs).

 

 

1. Only for those borrowers who are unable to afford payments if they rise above their introductory rates. Left out are both the people who can afford to continue payments even after rates adjust higher and those who cannot afford the loan even at the low initial rates.

 

2. Loans must have been originated between Jan. 1, 2005 and July 31, 2007 and have been included in securitized pools.

 

3. Rates must be scheduled to reset no earlier than Jan. 1, 2008 and no later than July 31, 2010 and the restructuring process must begin before the loans reset.

 

4. FICO scores must not exceed 660 or have gained more than 10 percent since the origination of the mortgage.

 

5. The loan-to-value-ratio of the mortgage must be less than 97 percent. That is, the face amount of the loan must be less than what the home is actually worth.

 

6. Servicers of any second mortgages on the homes must agree to cooperate.

 

7. Candidates for a freeze must be current on their monthly payments; they cannot be more than 30 days late nor have been 60 days late more than once in the previous 12 months.

 

8. If borrowers qualify for an FHASecure loan, the freeze is not available to them. Borrowers must also be owner/occupiers as opposed to speculators.

 

9. The reset has to send payments up by at least 10 percent from your previous payment.

 

10. Any modifications must maximize profits for investors and be in their best interests.

 

 

Personally, (without getting into politics) I think this is more about looking like a helpful plan for those stuck in an ARM than really doing anything of significance. Owner occupant homeowners who have less than 97% LTV, current on mortgage, & max of 1 late in the last 12 months seem like those guidelines would be able to refi on their own without this plan. Am I really wrong about this, pros?

 

Also, since Cedski mentioned that servicers are able to modify up to 5% of loans & this really seems like it would only really help max of 7% as the center guesstimated in the article, I don't see the moral hazard applying in this particular plan. For the people who have come here looking for refi help, most of them who took out ARMs since 2005 are not at 97% LTV or lower, especially since many of the are actually upside-down on their homes (wow, did not ever really think I would use that auto loan term on a mortgage basis).

Edited December 9, 2007 by CallMeJo

[54regcab]

What do they consider being able to "afford" a mortgage?

[CallMeJo]

affordability will exclude unnescessary items like cable & dining out, if that's what you're asking. they'll expect you to immediately do without to keep your house.

[cedski]

cedski, I was not attacking any industry for this. the common theme in my comments was that this creates a moral hazard which might be bad for the market in the long run. please stop suggesting I said anything about brokers agreeing with the program. I don't think I mentioned brokers at all.

 

never mind. I forgot one must conform to the prevailing broker opinions to venture into the mortgage forum

 

My comment to you was based on this remark.......So one would assume......that you are saying that brokers have come to some type of consensus in this forum......if we happen to diagree with your position........my point and statement stand.

[hegemony]

My comment to you was based on this remark.......So one would assume......that you are saying that brokers have come to some type of consensus in this forum......if we happen to diagree with your position........my point and statement stand.

 

you decided to single me out in post #34 arguing that I did not post when "fed injected money into the capitol markets."(see below) you then claim that I only presented hype not facts. you went on to post about how this bailout was not law, etc. as I pointed out later I never claimed it was "law" nor did I ever claim all brokers agree with it. I also did not say all brokers in this forum agree. I said "prevailing broker opinion" which certainly is not saying the "consensus opinion" of brokers in this forum.

 

later you said "I think you made an assumption here that us "brokers" agree with the agreemtn when in fact it will directly affect our income by reducing the number of people who will need to refi out of there ARMS." what orifice did you pull that assumption out of? my complaints/rants/etc in thread were not targeted at brokers or the mortgage industry. until you decided to single me out for your unconstructive assumptions I was mainly commenting on the (potential) moral hazard.

 

and frankly if you had a clue you'd see that I have posted about the weakening dollar but in the MM forum not here.

Edited December 9, 2007 by hegemony