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jack1212

All you want to know about LVNV

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Note: I am not an expert, not a lawyer, I’m simply telling you what worked for me.

 

Ok, people have asked for it, here is THE LVNV thread. I have no guarantees that this will work for you, but I will share with you my experience and research. And please, keep this thread confined to LVNV or their “umbrella companies†only. Thanks.

 

Step one to Fighting them…

 

First, you have to research how this company functions. They operate under SEVERAL names. Sherman and ascent for example.

 

I have always kept a solid paper trail. I even keep a log on my computer of dates of events. (and if you do this, back it up with a disk from time to time, I learned that the hard way). Anyway after I got served , I was looking to see when LVNV sent their initial Dunning letter. It was NOT in my log. I knew that there was no way I could have missed it. I tore the house apart looking for it. No luck. The first letter I got that even mentioned LVNV was from UCB, who they got to collect on me.

 

So I made a thread here and asked “Has anyone ever gotten a dunning letter from LVNV� I felt SO stupid asking it. But little did I know, One of LVNV’s biggest secrets were about to be reveled. It turns out that the majority of people are NOT getting dunning letters directly from LVNV.

 

So I tried to find some caselaws to see how these guys work. The Best case I found was Heather Maloney vs. LVNV. Now I realized what was going on. They send dunning letters by a third party such as a law firm. Why? They are clearly trying to bypass the FDCPA by claiming to be the original creditors. They even ADMITTED to it in the case I cited.

 

So, if they were to send a dunning letter, it must by law have the mini Miranda on it. That would ruin their whole scam, because they would have to admit to being a collection agency! If they DIDN’T have the mini Miranda, they violate again. Therefore, they would be screwed either way.

 

This explains why they ignore DV requests. And if you do get one, it comes through whomever they hired.

 

Another Golden case to read is…

 

The Case of Peterson vs. United Accounts Inc, a consumer may sue a collection agency, even if previously sued on the debt. The Collection Agency may not use “collections†as a countersuit in federal court.

 

If you wind up in court, use the discovery phase to your advantage. Make them admit that they purchased your debt while it was in default. In the request for production of documents, ask them to produce the original dunning letter they sent to you. They cant. What if they make up one? Even better, because it MUST have the mini Miranda on it. Again, they would be screwed either way.

 

 

 

Step Two:

Stay one step ahead. They are famous for sending out the chaundry (sp?) letters. I however never got that. But if I had it to do over, I would send the entire case to them. Highlight the section that they always leave out. If you haven’t researched that case, you need to. It is NOT in favor of the JDB. They simply reword the case as they please. Now we’ve stricken that from evidence.

 

The famous Alison Moon affidavit. Except it’s under a different name now. The only thing this is good for is making paper airplanes. If you get one, let them know it’s hearsay! It does not fall under the business records exemption, as it was not made at or near the time of any transactions. Ask them for the contact info for the person that created it. If there were “Books and Records†that were true and correct, they would produce THEM instead of the affidavit. Remind them of what perjury is, and see if the affidavit creator is willing to commit it. For more on affidavits, read Dixie’s thread on winning lawsuits. Awesome stuff. Now we’ve stricken that from evidence. If you really want to hit them hard, subpoena the affidavit creator.

 

They will send a statement created by the CA. DV must come from the OC. Remind them of that. If they DO send something from the OC, such as a monthly statement, it’s not validation. A photocopy of a one month statement does not show the entire balance history.

 

If they still want to play OC, Ask them to produce the terms of agreement with THEIR company, signed by you. Ask them how much credit they extended to you. This will also get them on the one month term, and “open†account. Now we busted them on that.

 

It seems that they report “Data Factoringâ€(DF) on almost all reports. DF is a whole different topic. Do a search here. There’s a monster thread on it somewhere.

 

Now, you have to make them prove that they are a DF company. Make them PROVE that this is a DF account. If they bought it after CO, it’s impossible. (That’s a VERY in depth topic with its own thread, so check it out) Now we busted that.

 

Step Three

Each letter that you send, make sure it goes through their attorney. If one party did something wrong or illegal, let the other party know it. This creates a “self destruction†technique, as I call it, causing them to turn on each other. Neither the law firm or the JDB wants to be responsible for the other parties screw-up’s.

 

I CONSTANTLY stayed on them. Each week I sent the attorney another letter.

“Enclosed please find the complaint to the BBB, and forward it to your client†thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. (remember the litigious mindset?) Calm, cool, but serious.

 

Remember they should want YOU to go away, not the other way around. Let them know you are not hiding, and you are standing your ground.

 

The Next week, the AG letter was sent. And so on. I hounded the crap out of them.

 

If you decide to file complaints with AG, FTC, BBB, etc, do it before a suit is filed. Most of them will not get involved once litigation is made.

 

Always answer a summons. That alone got my case dismissed. We never even had a date set or made it to the discovery phase. Once they see you are putting up a fight, and you know their scams, they will back off.

 

When all else fails with ANY CA, remember this:

There comes a time in which the Validity of the debt is not even an issue, but their obvious violations are!

 

We get caught up way too much on “is this DV†or “what constitutes DVâ€. Forget that. Focus on the Violations, and turn the tables.

 

So we have seen pretty much how to have all their crappy evidence thrown out. So what do they have now?

 

Nothing.

 

But What do YOU have?

Caselaws

Green Cards

Copies of letters to them, DV requests etc.

Documented Violations

Credit damages

Letters you sent to BBB, and everywhere else to resolve the situation

Credit reports showing they are attempting to collect on a time barred debt.

FTC opinion letters

 

(Granted all of it is not evidence, but it looks good when you come in with a crapload of paperwork and are prepared.)

 

The Judge then says:

Ok Plaintiff, what do you have?

 

Ummm…He has to pay cause I said so!!

 

 

So as a review,

 

1) Don’t let them claim to be OC’s

2) Every piece of evidence they send can be contested or thrown out, as I showed you

3) The Self destruction technique

4) Research the chaundry case on THIS site, and see what they are rewording (I may have misspelled it)

5) Read the case law of Maloney vs. LVNV

6) If you play the discovery phase right, you can have them trapped. They can’t be an OC and a CA at the same time on the same account.

7) Read Dixie’s guide to winning lawsuits, great info on having the affidavit stricken from evidence.

When all else fails with ANY CA There comes a time in which the Validity of the debt is not even an issue, but their obvious violations are!

8) Research Data Factoring and see why it’s a FDCPA violation.

9) Caselaws are your friend. Don’t underestimate them!

 

Sorry LVNV, you tried to screw over the wrong member of the CB family. Now everyone knows how you operate.

 

That’s it folks. Hope it helped. Get the word out. Let people know the scam they pull. Feel free to add success stories, or scams you have found.

 

 

Oh yea, I forgot…..Never Quit, Never back down!!!!!!!!

 

Jack1212

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Shortcuts to posts i cited....

 

 

 

Here's the Data Factoring Thread..

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;hl=factoring

 

 

Chaudry vs Gallerizzo (Post # 38, if you want a shortcut)

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?s...audry&st=20

 

 

Dixie's Guide, which includes dealing with Affidavits..

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132612

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Great Post Jack!!

 

I just want to add a few things that I have found in my own 8 month battle with them.

 

1.) Everytime you get a dunning letter from one of their blanket companies, DV it immediately.

They tried to tell me that so and so company never recieved a letter, and durn if they were not right.

I had sent one to several companies but missed one somewhere in the shuffle, at least you CYA'd yourself.

 

2.) the only type of validation I recieved was a letter stating that "on such date LVNV purchased the debt from so and so for this much" This only PROVES what was posted earlier. LVNV is a JDB and not a factoring company. So this letter is goled in the above post.

 

3.) Most importantly: DO NOT PANIC WHEN YOU GET A LETTER FROM A LAWYER!!!!! they are subject to the same rules and they must validate too. One letter to WWR and they immediately stopped calling and sent a letter to me stating they could not validate. this letter too is golden since it proves there was no documents supporting their case.

 

Oh and here are the violations I had them on. Feel free to use if it applies to you! Notice how factoring company was heavily relied on.

 

VIOLATIONS:

 

-LVNV violated 15 USC §1692e by making false or misleading representations concerning the status of the alleged debt by the following actions:

 

-LVNV violated 15 USC §1692e(2)(A) by misrepresenting the amount of the debt and by incorrectly characterizing the account as belonging to a “factoring companyâ€.

 

-LVNV violated 15 USC §1692e(8) by communicating credit information which is known or which should be known to be false by reporting the account as a “factoring company†account and by reporting the account status as “openâ€

 

-LVNV violated 15 USC §1692e(10) by using false representation or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect any debt by reporting the account as a “factoring company†account

 

-LVNV violated 15 USC §1692e(12) by alleging that the account was a “factoring company†account resulting in the false representation or implication that accounts have been turned over to innocent purchasers for value.

 

LVNV violated 15 USC §1692f by using unfair or unconscionable means to collect or attempt to collect any debt by reporting the account as a “factoring company†account to deceive current and potential creditors and to negatively impact my credit scores.

 

LVNV has reported incorrect and damaging information concerning the alleged debt to credit reporting agencies in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act [15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq.]

 

LVNV violated provisions of the Fair Credit Reporting Act [15 USC §1681s-2(] by failing to properly investigate this matter in response to disputes filed with the credit reporting agencies. LVNV reported inaccurate and/or erroneous information as “verifiedâ€.

 

LVNV verified incorrect information to Experian, falsely reporting an incorrect amount [amt.] and providing inaccurate information concerning the type of account (“installmentâ€) and reported as past due.

 

LVNV verified incorrect information to TransUnion, falsely reporting an incorrect amount [amt.] and providing inaccurate information concerning the type of account (“factoring company†and “open accountâ€).

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Thanks Collins!

 

As far as WWR, i had always heard how big and bad they were. I sent 1 or 2 DV letters, and they folded extremely easy.

 

I was actually suprised.

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Yeah, they gave me the run around about their address though. Once I had it, 1 letter was all it took to get them gone! here is the letter I sent them. Now that I look at it it was really rough and long but it was early in my credit repair jounery so I know i got better, and shorter, lol.

 

Dear Weltman, Weinberg, & Reis Co.:

 

This letter is being sent to you in response to phone calls I have been receiving from your agent Mrs. Green as well as a letter I received today November 15, 2006. When I asked your agent for your company address, I was given the incorrect information but sent the correct information in your letter and I am now contacting you about the above mentioned account. I am disputing this debt at this time. This is also a request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made to my home or to any place of employment by your office(s), any affiliate of yours, or any third party or parties claiming to represent you or to be represented by you. If your office(s) attempt telephone communication with me including, but not limited to, computer generated or any other type of an automated call generating system, such calls will be considered as harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. In addition all future communications from you, your office(s), any affiliate of yours, or any third party or parties representing you or to be represented by you, MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted at the top of this letter by USPS Certified Mail ONLY. Any other type of correspondence, delivered by any means, except as specified above, will be ignored as uncertified communication from an unknown party.

 

This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed.

Please be advised that I am not requesting a "verification" that you have my mailing address, I am requesting a "validation"; that is, competent evidence that I have some contractual obligation to pay you or your client. I request that you provide me with verification of the alleged debt, pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1692g(:o. All collection activity on this account should cease and the information be removed from all three reporting agencies until written verification has been provided to me.

Written verification shall include, but is not limited to:

The original amount of the debt, and an itemization of any interest and fees that are being assessed.

The date the debt was incurred.

The name and address of the original creditor.

A statement that the debt has not been paid.

A statement that the original creditor provided goods or services in consideration of the debt.

Copies of any written instruments which evidence that I incurred the debt including, but not limited to contracts or promissory notes.

Please be advised that your failure to comply with my requests may lead to liability under 15 U.S.C. § 1692k, and I may be entitled to actual damages, court costs, attorney’s fees, and up to $1,000.00 in statutory damages.

Without these items being presented to me as proof that I have an obligation to pay you or your client, I do not recognize this debt as being mine. Nor do previous attempts of validation of this debt from your client sufficiently prove that I have any contractual obligation to pay the amount you are requesting. You do not have to respond to this dispute but if you do not, any attempt to collect this debt without validating it, violates the FDCPA. I may, at my discretion, retain an attorney concerning this matter and any and all communication between your firm and me shall be reviewed by such counsel. I appreciate your time and consideration of this matter.

Best Regards,

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i do not mean to hijack your thread but I thought if we shared what has worked for us then we could have a nice long and informative thread on LVNV. I really hate them so anyone needing help could find this thread and use it and I am happy to help anyone defeat them. :o

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Thank you for this thread. I am currently in a situation with LVNV where they filed suit. I was able to answer the summons and sent a DV CRRR. Now I will take this info to remain on the offensive.

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Wanted to add:

 

For those of you who post on other boards, feel free to post this. You dont even need to credit me, i could care less. i want these scumbags to go down.

 

The more people who know about this, the better.

 

I have already sent it to bud hibbs. I dont always agree with some of his views, but he has an awesome site.

 

POST AT WILL!!!!!!!!

 

Oh yea,

 

I went to apply for a loan a few months ago. The loan officer was CLUELESS on debts, FDCPA, etc.

 

She stared at the screen for like a minute and said.......what is this account you have with "living"?

 

LMAO.

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Jack, are you planning on suing these scumbags? It sounds like you have good reason. I believe they should compensate you for your time and their blatant disregard for your rights and the law.

 

I'm having a similar experience and I can't get them to respond to anything...no summons yet. I'm hoping you go after them and share the experience.

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Jack, are you planning on suing these scumbags? It sounds like you have good reason. I believe they should compensate you for your time and their blatant disregard for your rights and the law.

 

I'm having a similar experience and I can't get them to respond to anything...no summons yet. I'm hoping you go after them and share the experience.

 

Yes i am. They never respond. They hide behind whoever they hire. I cant discuss details, but after the suit i'll post a little more.

 

Check out my thread of thier permit violations. Another way to get them. Just put my name in a search engine.

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Credit Collins135 for the following........

 

 

The information is found in the "Third Party Collection Agency/Debt Purchaser/ Factoring Company Reporting" Section. It is kinds far into the document.

 

http://www.cdiaonline.org/files/PDFs/2006CRRGWholeManual.pdf

 

There may even be an updated file somewhere on the cdia site.

 

The "Account Type Codes" has different codes for a regular CA and another for a DP.

 

In the Glossary Section a debt purchaser is defined as "A company or individual who purchases accounts with the intent of collecting debts owed". A Factoring company is defined as "See Debt Purchaser". So in the metro 2 format they are the same thing. Interestingly enough, there is no definition of collection agency.

 

My theory is this. You said this somewhat yourself.

 

LVNV does not dun you or "tries" to collect the debt in any way. They "hire" other companies to do this.

 

We know that these other companies are all owned by Sherman.

 

The other companies never show up on your report.

 

In this way, they convince the CRA's that LVNV is not a CA since they do not engage in the collection, they are only the buyer. The companies that they hire are the CA's. Thus they report in a manner that is deceptive and hurts your credit more than it should.

 

They are a debt purchaser in that they buy the debt, but the company as a whole is a JDB.

 

The CRA's do not distinguish between DP and FC's, they are the same in their format.

 

Now the CRA's will argue that they report only what they are given, so the liability still lies with LVNV to report themselves as a CA and not a DP.

 

It is an interesting situation really.

 

Also, look at what items are not allowed to be reported and you will see lots of ways they do not follow the Metro 2.

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Thank you for starting this thread! I am currently getting letters from two different law firms on two different accounts (both accounts are being collected by LVNV).

 

I have read enough to gather that I need to send a letter of dispute to the attornies. Unfortuneatley, I have been sweeping it under the rug and am far from being able to respond under the '30 Day' time frame that is always cited.

 

Does this mean it is too late for me to make them validate or should I move forward?

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As a note, when I was contacted by one of their outsourced CA companies, I had already researched LVNV, Sherman and their other DBA's. I set a DV to the CA and LVNV CMRR. That covers you if they send it out again to another CA. Then they ARE guilty of continued debt collection activity. I also, (I'm not looking to rack up violations, just getting them to go away) tell them that any affidavit would be hearsay and anything on their letterhead is not validation.

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Thank you for starting this thread! I am currently getting letters from two different law firms on two different accounts (both accounts are being collected by LVNV).

 

I have read enough to gather that I need to send a letter of dispute to the attornies. Unfortuneatley, I have been sweeping it under the rug and am far from being able to respond under the '30 Day' time frame that is always cited.

 

Does this mean it is too late for me to make them validate or should I move forward?

 

No, it's never too late. The worst they could do is ignore it.

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No, it's never too late. The worst they could do is ignore it.

 

Thanks. I'm off to mail the letters now. I'll keep you posted!

 

Why would LVNV use two different law firms in different parts of California to go after me? Seems strange. :)

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you dont have more than one CA on your report do you? (for this account)

 

Not counting the OC.

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Nice post Jack. Great info. I appreciate your helping others.

 

 

Thanks LKH.

 

I just want to expose this fradulent scam.

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