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Do most of you find that your appraisals come in right around what you are paying for the home?

 

I ask this because we are buying a newer home (4 yrs old) for $146K. The home builder that built our home is still building our exact floor plan, two streets away, and they are asking $159,900 firm.

 

We have a professionally finished basement, deck, privacy fence, .30 of an acre, etc. The bank called me today and said the appraisal came in at $147K. That's so much better than coming in LESS, but the sellers orginally wanted $156K for the property. Do appraisers usually try to get the appraisal to come close to what you are paying for the property?

 

Thanks :D

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The quick answer is Yes, appraisals usually come in right around the sales price. In a perfect world it would be because the seller's realtor is very aware of home values and priced the home correctly (keep in mind that realtors have access to the same comparable sales as appraisers). This does affect it, but it probably has more to do with the fact that the appraiser has the sales contract with the sales price on it so he knows what he is shooting for. If he can find 3 quick comps that meet the criteria then he finishes up the report and turns it in. They aren't go to go searching for better comps that support a higher value if it isn't necessary for the transaction.

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Do most of you find that your appraisals come in right around what you are paying for the home?

 

Yes.

 

The appraiser's job is to find value in a house by comparing with other houses in the area. Typically, the lower the price, the more comps they can find. Since you only need it to appraise for sales price, they don't bother looking for a higher value since it limits the amount of comps.

 

When I first started in the business, I thought I was the "value king" since all my appraisals came in right at my estimated value. :dntknw:

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This has been one of my biggest gripes about the homebuying process. In my mind, I'm paying the appraiser, he should be giving me a real appraisal. I wish they didn't tell them what the sales prices were. In my case, I am buying a home that needs a little work, I will have to pay that fee AGAIN to get a REAL appraisal if I want to know the true value of my home. It's a rip off if you ask me hrumph!

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It's a rip off if you ask me hrumph!

I can't say that I disagree with you, but you have to keep in mind the part that an appraisal plays in the mortgage process.

 

The lender doesn't care what the market value of the home is unless it is less than what it is selling for. They are going to base their LTV off the LOWER of the sales price or the market value so the market value can be double the sales price and the lender doesn't care because they are going to base the LTV off of the sales price (since it is lower). In other words, all the lender needs to know is that the market value is greater than the sales price. That's it.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that even though you are ultimately paying for the appraisal, this isn't YOUR appraisal. It is the lender's. They are ordering it (or having a broker order it) and it will be in their name. They simply pass that cost, which they incur, on to you.

 

One last note: It is required that the appraiser have a copy of the sales agreement as they need to know about contributions/concessions that are included in the transaction so that they can be addressed.

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One last note: It is required that the appraiser have a copy of the sales agreement as they need to know about contributions/concessions that are included in the transaction so that they can be addressed.

 

Sorry, OP, not trying to hijack your thread but...

If the concessions are formulated into the appraisal, would that mean that the value of those concessions will be considered? In my case, I have included in my contract that the seller will give me a Lowe's gift card at closing to contribute to the cost of replacing the flooring (carpeting, vinyl). So, will the appraiser look at the home with the value of the replaced carpeting?

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My apologies as well OP :)

 

Concessions are a tricky thing. The appraiser is supposed to comment on whether or not loan concessions and/or contributions are common on loans in the area (I have never seen an appraisal where they didn't state it was normal). Further, they have to take into consideration that the concession is affecting the sales price. In other words, they have to assume that the sales price was increased to accommodate the concession.

 

Additionally, the lender is going to lower the sales price (for the purposes of LTV) by the amount of the concession. If you are buying a $200K house with 100% financing and the seller is giving you a $5000 gift card then the lender will typically let you borrower a maximum of $195K (that is 100% in their eyes). This isn't true of all lenders, but most work this way.

 

If the gift card is of a small enough value they may not bother with it, but if it's included in the sales contract then they are supposed to remove it from the value.

 

I hope that answers your question.

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  • 1 month later...
Do most of you find that your appraisals come in right around what you are paying for the home?

 

I ask this because we are buying a newer home (4 yrs old) for $146K. The home builder that built our home is still building our exact floor plan, two streets away, and they are asking $159,900 firm.

 

We have a professionally finished basement, deck, privacy fence, .30 of an acre, etc. The bank called me today and said the appraisal came in at $147K. That's so much better than coming in LESS, but the sellers orginally wanted $156K for the property. Do appraisers usually try to get the appraisal to come close to what you are paying for the property?

 

Thanks ;)

Our apprasial came in and our home isn't completed yet, (still 3 weeks away) and it appraised at $900 over the selling price. I don't know if that appraisal included the upgrades, but in my opinion, the home is worth at least $10,000 more than the appraised value. But I won't complain, since the property taxes will be based upon the apprasial value. :(

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But I won't complain, since the property taxes will be based upon the apprasial value. :swoon:

 

Really? That's the first I am hearing of that. Unless it varies by state, I always though the property taxes were based on the assessed value which can differ sometimes from the appraised value. For instance, a friend of mine bought his house a couple of years ago for $160K, but the assessed value of his home is $130K. His latest appraisal value was something like $240K.

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The real value base is how much someone will pay for your house. The only thing you should be concerned about is that your appraisal reaches the amount of the loan.

 

Appraisals weigh heavily on price and concessions but other items of note are upgrades, condition, area condition, area growth, financing types or cash, etc.

 

Keep in mind: upgrades are not rewared for a dollar to dollar amount. They are given a value that you can get. For example: a pool is one of the WORST investments you can put in your home. In our area it will cost approx $30-40K to put a normal pool in a normal house. Your ROI (Return on Investment) is only about $10K on that normal pool in a normal house. You get what the market bears.

 

For example: The house down the street may have sold for 10K more but they also had 30K (in dollar amount) upgrades and gave 7K in closing costs with 3K of adjustments with upgrade differences.

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It's a rip off if you ask me hrumph!

I can't say that I disagree with you, but you have to keep in mind the part that an appraisal plays in the mortgage process.

 

The lender doesn't care what the market value of the home is unless it is less than what it is selling for. They are going to base their LTV off the LOWER of the sales price or the market value so the market value can be double the sales price and the lender doesn't care because they are going to base the LTV off of the sales price (since it is lower). In other words, all the lender needs to know is that the market value is greater than the sales price. That's it.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that even though you are ultimately paying for the appraisal, this isn't YOUR appraisal. It is the lender's. They are ordering it (or having a broker order it) and it will be in their name. They simply pass that cost, which they incur, on to you.

 

One last note: It is required that the appraiser have a copy of the sales agreement as they need to know about contributions/concessions that are included in the transaction so that they can be addressed.

 

So what about a refi situation? I still think the appraisal process is a total rip off. But I'm extremely biased in this regard. If you do a search here, you'll see a few posts where I chronicled my ordeal with the appraisal process right up to how my state's licensing and regulatory board is on cahoots with the appraisers. In my situation, I shouldn't be responsible to accurately estimate the value of my home which in a refi situation, the mortgage company should be interested in market value not my original sales price. Because of a bad appraisal where the appraiser didn't do his job, I got stuck paying PMI for over 2 years.

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It's a rip off if you ask me hrumph!

I can't say that I disagree with you, but you have to keep in mind the part that an appraisal plays in the mortgage process.

 

The lender doesn't care what the market value of the home is unless it is less than what it is selling for. They are going to base their LTV off the LOWER of the sales price or the market value so the market value can be double the sales price and the lender doesn't care because they are going to base the LTV off of the sales price (since it is lower). In other words, all the lender needs to know is that the market value is greater than the sales price. That's it.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that even though you are ultimately paying for the appraisal, this isn't YOUR appraisal. It is the lender's. They are ordering it (or having a broker order it) and it will be in their name. They simply pass that cost, which they incur, on to you.

 

One last note: It is required that the appraiser have a copy of the sales agreement as they need to know about contributions/concessions that are included in the transaction so that they can be addressed.

 

So what about a refi situation? I still think the appraisal process is a total rip off. But I'm extremely biased in this regard. If you do a search here, you'll see a few posts where I chronicled my ordeal with the appraisal process right up to how my state's licensing and regulatory board is on cahoots with the appraisers. In my situation, I shouldn't be responsible to accurately estimate the value of my home which in a refi situation, the mortgage company should be interested in market value not my original sales price. Because of a bad appraisal where the appraiser didn't do his job, I got stuck paying PMI for over 2 years.

 

I'm interested in hearing the story...about how you got stuck paying PMI because of the appraiser

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Actually, we just had an appraisal done (FL) on a property we wanted to buy, and we knew the seller was WAY out of line in the asking price, so we were hoping the appraisal would come in somewhere in the correct range.

The seller originally said he would sell for appraisal price.

 

Well, in this part of the country, appraisers are definitely minding their p's + q's. Even though ALL of the houses for sale in the area are priced in the same range, the appraisal came in more than $20,000 below the asking price! That's because what has actually SOLD, as opposed to what is for sale, has all been around $20,000 less than what the homes are listed for. Sellers just haven't caught up to the fact that the market has tanked here...

 

Anyway, once the seller got the appraisal info, he decided against selling. (Even though he would have made roughly a 75% profit from his original purchase three years ago because up until this year, the values were skyrocketing at an incredibly inflated rates.)

 

So, we're still renting and looking...

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I'm no fan of appraisers. After reading the report my last appraiser sent to my lender, I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. He claimed no finished garage -- it was. He claimed no laundry room -- there is. And he missed an entire room.

 

Needless to say the appraisal was considerably lower than expected.

Edited by Steele
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What happens if you buy a house for $150 and the appraisal came back and said the house is actually worth $130. Can you get the house at the new appraisal rate?

It depends on what the buyer and seller want to do. If they seller wants to be stubborn they can wait until someone wants to come in with the cash difference!

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I'm no fan of appraisers. After reading the report my last appraiser sent to my lender, I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. He claimed no finished garage -- it was. He claimed no laundry room -- there is. And he missed an entire room.

 

Needless to say the appraisal was considerably lower than expected.

What happens usually in this case they go off of tax records and even if he was physically in the property - if additions were done without proper permits - they don't count.

Edited by HskrFiesta
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I'm interested in hearing the story...about how you got stuck paying PMI because of the appraiser

 

OKkkkkk..... Well here goes. I decided to refi my house when interest rates were hitting rock bottom. I talked to my current lender about what I could refi to. They came back with 5% fixed for 30 years with I think 2 points paid up front. Pretty decent deal in my eyes as I wasn't planning on moving any time soon....if ever. So the lender orders an appraisal. I get a call from the appraiser to schedule a time for him to come out. First appointment, no show....no call that he wasn't going to show. Ok. I call him and was wondering what the hell. He calls back tells me some excuse and proceeds to schedule another appointment. The second appointment arrives. Guess what? No show again and no call. I call him wondering WTF? I was about to tell the lender to get me a new appraiser when the jerk calls back and apologizes up and down about not showing. So I give him another chance....worst mistake in my life. He does show for this appointment. Walks the house in like 10 minutes. Doesn't ask for the builder's floor plans. Doesn't measure the house. He would have bolted out of there faster if it hadn't been me keeping him around to answer some questions.

 

Fast forward a week and half or so. He promised the appraisal in 3 days. Of course he doesn't meet the deadline. The lender forwards me the appraisal report and I look it over. Almost went ahead with the closing of the loan until I read through the fine print of the report. First, he got the square footage of my house wrong. Second, my home didn't even fall in the middle of the three comps he used. The value he came up with coincidentally came in at exactly what I guessed was the value of my home. Based on the comps he put out, if I were to pick the mid point of the comps, he was $20k under what the value of the home should be. And these comps were homes that sold within the past 6 months. He also mis-characterized the condition of my home calling it "Fair." The house is better than fair as many here can attest to with the pictures I've put up. I immediately dispute the appraisal. The lender says they will discuss with the appraiser and get back to me. The back and forth communication kept having the appraiser coming back as saying there was no reason to change the appraisal amount. I finally got tired of the BS and called the appraiser directly. When he answered the phone, he acted surprised to hear me on the other end. Said my call was the first he's heard of any problems with the appraisal. Said he would look into it and get back to me later that day. Of course no call. I call him numerous times and leave messages. No return call. I call him the next day. No return call. I don't hear from him at all. Being that the lender already extended my rate lock, I decided I needed to just close on the loan rather than lose it over the potential to having to pay PMI. During that time, I submit a BBB complaint.

 

Well, a couple of weeks after the BBB complaint goes in, surprise, I get a phone call from the blue shirt. He was wondering why I had filed a BBB complaint. I proceed to tell him why. He said after he got off the phone with me, he had reviewed the appraisal and changed the amount to up it by $20k. Said he emailed the lender the new report. Ok. The lender said they received no update. I work in IT. So I ask him some info about how he emailed the report. I then said he could contact the IT people for the system he uses and ask them for the log files. If he indeed emailed the report, it would show right there the date and time he did it. He started to stammer his words and came up with excuses like he had no reason to give an under appraisal. Yadda yadda yadda. Told me it was the lender that was screwing me and that I shouldn't waste my time in fighting this. But said he would email the new report again. Which he did. The lender wouldn't accept the new appraised value because the loan had closed and been funded. I looked through the report and the jerk back dated the updated report to make it seem like this was the original report. Which to me is deception and criminal. Some more conversations with the jerk with me telling him that it wasn't my fault and that he's the one causing this problem due to his lack of communication with me. I told him either get the lender to fix the problem or I'd escalate the issue. Of course nothing gets done on his end.

 

I now file a complaint with my state's licensing board. They move the complaint to a hearing by a group at the state attorney general's office. I wait and wait for notice of the hearing date. I get nothing. I call the office and the one person I can talk to is totally nasty with me on the phone when I ask for a status on the case. Then I finally get a letter in the mail from the office. They said a hearing was done and they found the jerk innocent of any misconduct. Great. They have a hearing and don't even invite me to rebut any lies the jerk said in his testimony. He could dispute all of my written testimony. That's real fair. Come to find out some of the presiding "judges" are also appraisers themselves. Like I said earlier the whole appraisal system, at least in my state, is totally corrupt. I thought about filing in small claims to recover for the needless PMI I paid for over 2 years. But my home inspector who is also a licensed real estate agent in my state said it wasn't worth my time. He sympathizes with me over my issue but said I had to prove malicious intent. The appraiser could just play dumb and say he made a mistake.

 

So there you have it. It's a shame one screw up has affected my perception of an entire group of people. But what reinforces the attitude was how I got screwed again by the system that was supposedly to protect people like me. Hope this is a warning to those who have to deal with appriasers. If you get bad vibes from the appraiser you get assigned, I'd kick him/her out and ask for a new one.

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hmmm, long story, lol

 

do you know that your "updated" appraisal would have been approved?

 

Now, I'm just playing devils advocate, but I've had soo many people (who are not appraisers) tell me about such and such on their home...Most don't understand the appraisal!!!

Appraisals dont use averages of the comps...,etc

 

like I said, just playing devils advocate, but sounds like a bad situation. sorry to hear that!

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I'm no fan of appraisers. After reading the report my last appraiser sent to my lender, I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. He claimed no finished garage -- it was. He claimed no laundry room -- there is. And he missed an entire room.

 

Needless to say the appraisal was considerably lower than expected.

What happens usually in this case they go off of tax records and even if he was physically in the property - if additions were done without proper permits - they don't count.

 

Nope, they went off his appraisal. Since it was a refi anyway, we got enough, though not as much as we wanted.

 

The house had no additions at the time and I am the original owner. And it's always a good idea to point out that all additions should be done with the proper permits if you want the value to count. I am planning on some additions in a few months and you can bet I'll make sure the additional square footage will be recorded. Makes a big difference in my market.

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hmmm, long story, lol

 

do you know that your "updated" appraisal would have been approved?

 

Now, I'm just playing devils advocate, but I've had soo many people (who are not appraisers) tell me about such and such on their home...Most don't understand the appraisal!!!

Appraisals dont use averages of the comps...,etc

 

like I said, just playing devils advocate, but sounds like a bad situation. sorry to hear that!

 

Yes, it would have had the guy actually submitted one before I had closed. The jerk had 2 weeks to do it and didn't. The rate lock was extended for about a month.

 

If appraisals don't weigh much on the comps then why bother with the mess of gathering comps? I asked a realtor I used to do business with about this issue. He said it's highly unusual for a house being appraised not to fall in somewhere betwen the low and high end of the comps. After all, the idea of gathering comps is to support the value of the home. Remember, I'm not dealing with sales price here. I needed the ahole to do his job and determine actual market value.

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I'm interested in hearing the story...about how you got stuck paying PMI because of the appraiser

 

OKkkkkk..... Well here goes. I decided to refi my house when interest rates were hitting rock bottom. I talked to my current lender about what I could refi to. They came back with 5% fixed for 30 years with I think 2 points paid up front. Pretty decent deal in my eyes as I wasn't planning on moving any time soon....if ever. So the lender orders an appraisal. I get a call from the appraiser to schedule a time for him to come out. First appointment, no show....no call that he wasn't going to show. Ok. I call him and was wondering what the hell. He calls back tells me some excuse and proceeds to schedule another appointment. The second appointment arrives. Guess what? No show again and no call. I call him wondering WTF? I was about to tell the lender to get me a new appraiser when the jerk calls back and apologizes up and down about not showing. So I give him another chance....worst mistake in my life. He does show for this appointment. Walks the house in like 10 minutes. A 2055 interior/exterior does not require photo's so unless there was a major upgrade done it would only take a minute in the house. Doesn't ask for the builder's floor plans. If it was an exterior only appraisal he wouldn't need them Doesn't measure the house. Again if it was a drive by appraisal it would not have been required......however if it was an interior exterior one he should have duoble checked to make sure the sq footage matched public records. He would have bolted out of there faster if it hadn't been me keeping him around to answer some questions.

 

Fast forward a week and half or so. He promised the appraisal in 3 days. Of course he doesn't meet the deadline. The lender forwards me the appraisal report and I look it over. Almost went ahead with the closing of the loan until I read through the fine print of the report. First, he got the square footage of my house wrong. Second, my home didn't even fall in the middle of the three comps he used. The value he came up with coincidentally came in at exactly what I guessed was the value of my home. Based on the comps he put out, if I were to pick the mid point of the comps, he was $20k under what the value of the home should be. And these comps were homes that sold within the past 6 months. He also mis-characterized the condition of my home calling it "Fair." That would be normal there isn't a classification for above fair......except in our own minds The house is better than fair as many here can attest to with the pictures I've put up. I immediately dispute the appraisal. The lender says they will discuss with the appraiser and get back to me. The back and forth communication kept having the appraiser coming back as saying there was no reason to change the appraisal amount. I finally got tired of the BS and called the appraiser directly. When he answered the phone, he acted surprised to hear me on the other end. Said my call was the first he's heard of any problems with the appraisal. Said he would look into it and get back to me later that day. Of course no call. I call him numerous times and leave messages. No return call. I call him the next day. No return call. I don't hear from him at all. Being that the lender already extended my rate lock, I decided I needed to just close on the loan rather than lose it over the potential to having to pay PMI. During that time, I submit a BBB complaint.

 

Well, a couple of weeks after the BBB complaint goes in, surprise, I get a phone call from the blue shirt. He was wondering why I had filed a BBB complaint. I proceed to tell him why. He said after he got off the phone with me, he had reviewed the appraisal and changed the amount to up it by $20k. Said he emailed the lender the new report. Ok. The lender said they received no update. I work in IT. So I ask him some info about how he emailed the report. I then said he could contact the IT people for the system he uses and ask them for the log files. If he indeed emailed the report, it would show right there the date and time he did it. He started to stammer his words and came up with excuses like he had no reason to give an under appraisal. Yadda yadda yadda. Told me it was the lender that was screwing me and that I shouldn't waste my time in fighting this. But said he would email the new report again. Which he did. The lender wouldn't accept the new appraised value because the loan had closed and been funded. I looked through the report and the jerk back dated the updated report to make it seem like this was the original report. Which to me is deception and criminal. Some more conversations with the jerk with me telling him that it wasn't my fault and that he's the one causing this problem due to his lack of communication with me. I told him either get the lender to fix the problem or I'd escalate the issue. Of course nothing gets done on his end.

 

I now file a complaint with my state's licensing board. They move the complaint to a hearing by a group at the state attorney general's office. I wait and wait for notice of the hearing date. I get nothing. I call the office and the one person I can talk to is totally nasty with me on the phone when I ask for a status on the case. Then I finally get a letter in the mail from the office. They said a hearing was done and they found the jerk innocent of any misconduct. Great. They have a hearing and don't even invite me to rebut any lies the jerk said in his testimony. He could dispute all of my written testimony. That's real fair. Come to find out some of the presiding "judges" are also appraisers themselves. Like I said earlier the whole appraisal system, at least in my state, is totally corrupt. I thought about filing in small claims to recover for the needless PMI I paid for over 2 years. But my home inspector who is also a licensed real estate agent in my state said it wasn't worth my time. He sympathizes with me over my issue but said I had to prove malicious intent. The appraiser could just play dumb and say he made a mistake.

 

So there you have it. It's a shame one screw up has affected my perception of an entire group of people. But what reinforces the attitude was how I got screwed again by the system that was supposedly to protect people like me. Hope this is a warning to those who have to deal with appriasers. If you get bad vibes from the appraiser you get assigned, I'd kick him/her out and ask for a new one.

 

The first issue is that the appraisal is not doen for your benefit but the benefit of the lender. Value is subjective and there are guidelines for adjustments etc.....The bad part of going directly to a lender is that most will not accept a new appraisal after one has been submitted with a higher value. The value should have been reviewed long before you got to closing. You can't pick and choose someone to value your home for you and in some instances......World Savings as an example......if you kick the appraisor out you don't get the loan........period. The appraisor works for the lender not the broker not you as a client.

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A 2055 interior/exterior does not require photo's so unless there was a major upgrade done it would only take a minute in the house. Doesn't ask for the builder's floor plans. If it was an exterior only appraisal he wouldn't need them Doesn't measure the house. Again if it was a drive by appraisal it would not have been required......however if it was an interior exterior one he should have duoble checked to make sure the sq footage matched public records. He would have bolted out of there faster if it hadn't been me keeping him around to answer some questions.

The first issue is that the appraisal is not doen for your benefit but the benefit of the lender. Value is subjective and there are guidelines for adjustments etc.....The bad part of going directly to a lender is that most will not accept a new appraisal after one has been submitted with a higher value. The value should have been reviewed long before you got to closing. You can't pick and choose someone to value your home for you and in some instances......World Savings as an example......if you kick the appraisor out you don't get the loan........period. The appraisor works for the lender not the broker not you as a client.

 

To address your first point, it was an exterior and interior. He came into the house and walked around asking about the appliances and such. So I go back to my original statement, the jerk didn't do his job. I had another appraisal done for another refi that was tossed out by the broker. The appraiser took too long to get the report back to him and wasn't returning his phone calls. He went through an electronic appraisal and got what he needed to get the loan closed.

 

To address your other comment, I did review the valuation of the property LOONNNNGGGG before I went to closing. When I finally got the appraisal report which was over a week and half late from when it was promised, I immediately disputed it that day. The person processing the loan cancelled the closing date we had set and did a rate lock extension till this issue was sorted out. All I wanted was the ahole to explain to me why the numbers were all out of kilter. He never did and to this day still hasn't explained himself. When pressed, he made a fake attempt to rectify the situation by changing the original appraisal and resubmitting way after I had closed on the loan. I didn't twist his arm to do this. And if he was a person of integrity with his profession, he would have stood firm and given me a reason why the value came in as it did. I was forced to make a decision. Squable over a few hundred to a couple thousand in PMI payments I shouldn't be making in the first place or lose my interest rate lock and end up paying thousands upon thousands in higher interest payments.

 

I can see we're not going to agree with this topic. I really don't care. It's a warning to those out there going through the process to be doubly careful about the shananigens that go on in the appraisal process. The whole system is crooked right from how you gain entrance to the field of being an appraisal. And if I do lose the loan because I kicked an appraiser out due to my not trusting him/her, so be it. I'm just glad I'm in the position where I won't be needing to go through this crap for a long long time. And yes, to this day, I'm still mad that I was screwed royally over this.

Edited by zx10 guy
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Well it sounds like you had a bad expierence....However just like any and all professions there are good and bad people. Good and bad service.......Was there a floor plan attached to your appraisal?

 

Yes. I know. It's a shame I now have this bias. And I'll readily admit, I'm not the best person to ask for unbiased opinions on the appraisal process.

 

No the floor plan was never attached to the appraisal. Now come to think about it, I'm dead sure I gave the jerk a copy of it.

 

At least the recent appraisal I went through was much better to remove the PMI I was needlessly paying. The guy did take the floor plans and drew up diagrams that had measurements and such. I have no complaints with how this guy did the appraisal. But it took a lot of convincing before I decided to take a chance at another appraisal.

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