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The last post in this topic was posted 5345 days ago. 

 

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What interest and fees were agreed to WITH THE CA?

 

YOU did when you decided to use credit. By having others extend you credit, you agreeded to the the laws that govern credit.

 

Section 808(1) allows "The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law."

 

"Authorized by the agreement creating the debt" means the card agreement or contract.

 

If you disagree with this, I suggest destroying all your credit cards and make all purchases using cash.

 

I had a credit card go from $1200 to almost $2k because of fees, etc. It was allowed by law, and no one's fault but mine that it got that high. And yes, I paid the entire balance due.

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wow.. this is some thread... i just had to add my two cents.. i think the biggest injustice is that if you are late just one time... even if you pay the late fees..... and if you go bad on a loan or cc or anything.. and you do all you can to pay it back as soon as possible... they still screw you for 7 years!!! doesnt matter how much you pay or anything... they want to make you screwed for 7 years... now if they screw up and you notice it on your report... you have to call and beg and write good will letters and dispute and pray that it gets corrected... and if i dont.. still screwed.. still 7 years. its like a drivers license.. they say its a privelage... but for most of us its a necessity... and cant put a roof over my kids head without good credit... i cant earn a paycheck if i cant get to my job.. most places you need to drive the ability to walk to work for most is not possible. as most of us live atleast 10+ miles from work. people commit crimes, go to prison and get out with a new life for less than 7 years. you cant even rent a decent apt if your scores arent in the high 600's. ok i will get off my soapbox for now... just had to vent that out... hee heee

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Let's get real.  Most of the contact from CAs is for valid debts. 

Most people know exactly what debt it was, no matter how they can fake amnesia.

In most cases, very little stands in the way of them paying the OC or otherwise settling the debt, even with a PFD.

In most of the discussions here regarding unpaid debts, even when the poster states it belongs to them, paying it is the last thing on anyone's mind. 

How come I don't see anyone talking about putting the same efforts into paying the debts?

I think if you spent the money, used the services, or otherwise became indebted, you need to pay for it. 

It doesn't matter how old it was or what your circumstances were.

Multiplier, paying off accounts can be done. I'm doing it. Everything on my CR was a legit debt following a long period of unemployment. As soon as I had a paycheck coming in again (much lower pay than previously but at least it was something), I made an appointment with a CCCS after doing some research on my own. (It doesn't make any sense at all to expose one's credit information and personal accounts to any firm or agency unless you've thoroughly checked them out to make sure they're honest, effective and better than any of the available alternatives).

 

After seeing the debts and my financial position, even CCCS recommended that I file BK7 immediately instead of trying to pay it!

I chose not to do so.

I had two major reasons, or maybe three.

Other people might do and feel differently than I did.

 

One: I believe that as a nation we need to have an avenue for BK open for those (relatively few) individuals who are unexpectedly and unforeseeably swamped by massive debt they did not seek in any way and could never repay whatsoever. That might mean a situation of hundreds of thousands of medical debt beyond what was covered by their major medical policy. It doesn't, to me, mean having failed to carry and pay for insurance in the first place, nor is it about car loans or credit cards.

 

Two: I believe that I used the creditors' money/credit. Just because my personal circumstances changed for the worse, it doesn't negate that those are still my bills.

If there's any way in the world to do it, then for me it's only right to live up to my promises and thus that means to pay what I owe.

 

Three: Besides reasons one and two, I didn't want to have to deal with a BK on my record for ten years. If I made some (stringent and difficult) personal choices, I could see a path to paying it all off in five years or less. Once the debts were gone and with the passage of time in the meantime, my credit history would recover and I could move forward cleanly with my head up.

 

I didn't stiff my creditors.

I cannot know someone else's circumstances or personal values so I try not to do any second-guessing about others and why they may chosen to go the BK route or denying their debts.

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More than 25%? No way.

 

The bulk of debts people are having problems with come from credit cards. Again you are dragging the issue of the CA following the letter of the law into this when that's not really the point.

but that IS the point...if the CA can't follow a VERY simple law, how can they be expected to know what's owed and what's not?

 

If people paid their debts, there'd be little need for CAs - true of false?

false, because the CAs would still be dealing with the invalid debts they are now...granted, the "need" would be lessened somewhat...but still there

Most people who always pay their debts will never been contacted by a CA ever in their life - true or false?

 

True, but by the same token, MOST of the contact by CAs is in violation of fundemental rights granted by the law

 

 

Most of the debts CA get involved in are actual valid debts that weren't paid - true or false?

false...because the debts that MOST CAs try to collect are are NOT the same debts that MAY have been defaulted on...

Most of your suggestions never include paying off the debt(even to the OC) - true or false?

true...because that's not what's often asked here...nor is it pertinant...although if a debt IS valid, I often suggest a PFD...otherwise there's no real benefit (leaving ethics and morality out of it) to the consumer...

 

 

When contacted by a CA, most people know exactly what the debt is from no matter how much they can play amnesia - true or false?

 

False...

 

again...if a CA said someone owed over 2k for a 350 debt, then they do NOT know what the debt is for...

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Geez...why come on the credit discussion board if you have those views?  Must be a collector or have a serious antagonistic personality disorder. 

 

Pryan you are very funny!

 

Nothing wrong with creating lively debate.

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I have to admit that I was thinking the same way, but I am starting to have a change of heart. If you owe a debt, you should pay it.

 

Awesome glad you feel that way OP

 

 

Go back and pay the people you filed BK on . Bet they will love you for it.

 

 

Not all of us are here because of credit card debt, some are here because an OC screwed up when reporting.

 

Deby

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"And how do you know that? You aren't reading many thread if you are attempting to tell me that the majority of debt thread involve legitimate debts."

 

Pick 3 pages of this forum and take note of every mention of a debt. You'd find many examples such as "My Captial One card" "My chargeoff with Fingerhut" "My Citibank was IIB", etc, etc, etc.

 

When someone says "My" I assume they're owning up to it. And even moreso, it's pretty much a given in most discussions.

 

I also take real life into consideration. Most people I know with CAs on their back came from credit cards or store credit. I'd venture to say that's by far the bulk of CA business. It's so prevalent that I'm surprised we're even discussing it.

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What interest and fees were agreed to WITH THE CA?

 

 

YOU did when you decided to use credit.  By having others extend you credit, you agreeded to the the laws that govern credit.

 

Section 808(1) allows "The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law."

 

"Authorized by the agreement creating the debt" means the card agreement or contract. 

 

If you disagree with this, I suggest destroying all your credit cards and make all purchases using cash.

 

I had a credit card go from $1200 to almost $2k because of fees, etc.  It was allowed by law, and no one's fault but mine that it got that high.  And yes, I paid the entire balance due.

 

 

ok...so if the account is stil with the OC, and not charged off, then the interest is allowed...but where does it say that a CA can tack on interest on an account for which the original contract is no longer in force?

Edited by pryan67

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If people paid their debts, there'd be little need for CAs - true of false?

False.  OC's report debts to CA's, so if OC's would do their jobs, there wouldn't be a need for CA's.

 

Most people who always pay their debts will never been contacted by a CA ever in their life - true or false?

False.  People get reported to CA's all the time for debts that aren't theirs. Where exactly are you pulling your statistics???

 

Most of the debts CA get involved in are actual valid debts that weren't paid - true or false?

False.  How do you know every single person's history?  Again, where are your stats?

 

Most of your suggestions never include paying off the debt(even to the OC) - true or false?

False. See above.

 

When contacted by a CA, most people know exactly what the debt is from no matter how much they can play amnesia - true or false?

False. See above.

 

Just had to put in my 2 cents. I really don't understand your pessimism. Are you bored today?

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Is everyone's motivation either not to pay their debts, or to get stuff off their CBR when it actually is a debt they didn't pay?

 

I have to admit that I was thinking the same way, but I am starting to have a change of heart.  If you owe a debt, you should pay it. And yes I have no unpaid collections or unpaid closed accts on my CBR.  However, I was trying to get items off my CBR when they really were mine.

 

Shouldn't the real movtivation be to fiqure out how to pay things and to make sure they are being reported correctly to the CRAs? 

 

If the debt is yours and you try to get it removed based on a technicality, that just doesn't seem right.  You should be working to get it reporting correctly.

 

We all made the decision to use the credit we were given, and we agreed to the interest, late fees, overlimit fees, etc. 

 

Everyone hates having to deal with CAs and collectors, but it isn't their fault that we didn't pay our bills.  I am in no way condoning the tactics that some of them use.

 

I know my view will be unpopular, but I hope to cause some thought about taking responsibility for our past actions.  I am sure the vast majority will continue to feel justified in "cheating the system".

 

 

:huh:;)

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wow..  this is some thread...  i just had to add my two cents..  i think the biggest injustice is that if you are late just one time...  even if you pay the late fees.....  and if you go bad on a loan or cc or anything.. and you do all you can to pay it back as soon as possible...  they still screw you for 7 years!!!  doesnt matter how much you pay or anything... they want to make you screwed for 7 years...  now if they screw up and you notice it on your report...  you have to call and beg and write good will letters and dispute and pray that it gets corrected...  and if i dont.. still screwed.. still 7 years.  its like a drivers license.. they say its a privelage... but for most of us its a necessity...  and cant put a roof over my kids head without good credit...  i cant earn a paycheck if i cant get to my job..  most places you need to drive the ability to walk to work for most is not possible.  as most of us live atleast 10+ miles from work.  people commit crimes, go to prison and get out with a new life for less than 7 years.  you cant even rent a decent apt if your scores arent in the high 600's.  ok i will get off my soapbox for now... just had to vent that out... hee heee

 

I agree. There should be reform on the lenght of time that something is reported. Seven years is WAY too long.

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DiggingOut, that's the kind of responsibility I'm talking about. Congrats for not taking the easy way out. It WILL pay off down the road.

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I have to admit that I was thinking the same way, but I am starting to have a change of heart. If you owe a debt, you should pay it.

 

Awesome glad you feel that way OP

 

 

Go back and pay the people you filed BK on . Bet they will love you for it.

 

 

Not all of us are here because of credit card debt, some are here because an OC screwed up when reporting.

 

Deby

 

BK is a right we have, and the only legal way we have to not pay a debt.

 

That is my whole point. The effort should be on getting things reported correctly, not on deletion/not paying.

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What interest and fees were agreed to WITH THE CA?
YOU did when you decided to use credit.  By having others extend you credit, you agreeded to the the laws that govern credit.

 

Section 808(1) allows "The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law."

 

"Authorized by the agreement creating the debt" means the card agreement or contract. 

 

If you disagree with this, I suggest destroying all your credit cards and make all purchases using cash.

 

I had a credit card go from $1200 to almost $2k because of fees, etc.  It was allowed by law, and no one's fault but mine that it got that high.  And yes, I paid the entire balance due.If you paid the "entire" balance due-- was this BEFORE you did your BK-- or were these debts you ran up AFTER your BK??

 

You are confused,perhaps your post castigating those who do not PAY A CA was intended to castigate those who do not pay ( as YOU did not by declaring BK) the ORIGINAL CREDITORS.

 

I agree that whenever possible, the OC should be paid, in full, exhorbitant interest, late charges and all.

 

However, once the account has been sold to a JDB,and the OC has written off and charged off the account, ( and obtained a break on taxes from the chargeoff) there is NO obligation to pay a JDB who has taken a gamble that they can extort $$ from the debtor on an account they have purchased for 10 cents on the $ or less. ;)

Edited by Why Chat

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wow..  this is some thread...  i just had to add my two cents..  i think the biggest injustice is that if you are late just one time...  even if you pay the late fees.....  and if you go bad on a loan or cc or anything.. and you do all you can to pay it back as soon as possible...  they still screw you for 7 years!!!  doesnt matter how much you pay or anything... they want to make you screwed for 7 years...  now if they screw up and you notice it on your report...  you have to call and beg and write good will letters and dispute and pray that it gets corrected...  and if i dont.. still screwed.. still 7 years.  its like a drivers license.. they say its a privelage... but for most of us its a necessity...  and cant put a roof over my kids head without good credit...  i cant earn a paycheck if i cant get to my job..  most places you need to drive the ability to walk to work for most is not possible.  as most of us live atleast 10+ miles from work.  people commit crimes, go to prison and get out with a new life for less than 7 years.  you cant even rent a decent apt if your scores arent in the high 600's.  ok i will get off my soapbox for now... just had to vent that out... hee heee

 

I agree. There should be reform on the lenght of time that something is reported. Seven years is WAY too long.

 

 

I agree with that...

 

but there's MUCH more that should be modified when it comes to reporting and collections...there's a thread I started awhile back about talking with a state rep concerning the changes that are needed...including making FDCPA 10k PER VIOLATION...that would make the criminal CAs start obeying the law, or go out of business

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"And how do you know that? You aren't reading many thread if you are attempting to tell me that the majority of debt thread involve legitimate debts."

 

Pick 3 pages of this forum and take note of every mention of a debt.  You'd find many examples such as "My Captial One card"  "My chargeoff with Fingerhut"  "My Citibank was IIB", etc, etc, etc.

 

When someone says "My" I assume they're owning up to it.  And even moreso, it's pretty much a given in most discussions. 

 

I also take real life into consideration.  Most people I know with CAs on their back came from credit cards or store credit.  I'd venture to say that's by far the bulk of CA business.  It's so prevalent that I'm surprised we're even discussing it.

 

Okay, lets do a hypothetical scenario here:

 

Let's say Acme Phone Company says I owe them $62. I know I paid that bill and refuse to pay it again. They turn the alleged debt over to ABC CA who now claims I owe $300.

 

Is this a legitimate debt? If you are including these type of scenarios in with your "legitimate debt" theory than I can see where you're getting your numbers. Those of us who know better are aware this exact scenario gets posted here all the time. These are not legitimate debts, no matter how much spin you try to attach.

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Pizza and football at my house every Saturday night!!!

Yeaaaa, that is an invitation for everyone on CB isn't it?? ;)

 

 

Awesome glad you feel that way OP

Go back and pay the people you filed BK on . Bet they will love you for it.

Yep!!

 

Deby

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That is not a FACT. The BK refrom opponents tried to make it sound that way but the truth was that medical bills were just included in many BKs, not the reason for them.

 

Oh look, a quick google search show that Harvard agrees with me. I am finished with this thread. I am only going to have an educated debate.

Edited by pastpolls

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the constitution says there shall be no debtors prison.... but thats what CRA's are in essence... yes you should pay your bills.... but, your credit shouldnt have you whole life encoumpesed around it... and lets face it... it is here... our credit reports control everything we do in life pretty much. i think we are all being over peanalized for sometimes what is a simple transaction.... i am 38.... lets face it... over the last 7 years a lot of things in everyones lives has changed dramatically. like i said.. a criminal can go to prison for rape and get out and start over before i can while i am trying to do the right thing.

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This is an interesting topic and will return to read it BUT I think I will have a more productive night learning from the rest of the forum than any typed peeing contest on which is more of right or wrong issue with the CRA's and CA's....I will keep my philosophy and dispute EVERYTHING get them to verify and validate everything reported and fight them tooth and nail to keep my hard earned money...I sleep better with a full belly and full wallet ;)

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wow..  this is some thread...  i just had to add my two cents..  i think the biggest injustice is that if you are late just one time...  even if you pay the late fees.....  and if you go bad on a loan or cc or anything.. and you do all you can to pay it back as soon as possible...  they still screw you for 7 years!!!  doesnt matter how much you pay or anything... they want to make you screwed for 7 years...  now if they screw up and you notice it on your report...  you have to call and beg and write good will letters and dispute and pray that it gets corrected...  and if i dont.. still screwed.. still 7 years.  its like a drivers license.. they say its a privelage... but for most of us its a necessity...  and cant put a roof over my kids head without good credit...  i cant earn a paycheck if i cant get to my job..  most places you need to drive the ability to walk to work for most is not possible.  as most of us live atleast 10+ miles from work.  people commit crimes, go to prison and get out with a new life for less than 7 years.  you cant even rent a decent apt if your scores arent in the high 600's.  ok i will get off my soapbox for now... just had to vent that out... hee heee

 

I agree. There should be reform on the lenght of time that something is reported. Seven years is WAY too long.

 

 

I agree with that...

 

but there's MUCH more that should be modified when it comes to reporting and collections...there's a thread I started awhile back about talking with a state rep concerning the changes that are needed...including making FDCPA 10k PER VIOLATION...that would make the criminal CAs start obeying the law, or go out of business

 

If you ask me, the first change that should be made would be to outlaw the sale of any junk debt over seven years old. That would elimate most of the JDB/FCRA abuse.

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BK is a right we have, and the only legal way we have to not pay a debt. 

 

That is my whole point.  The effort should be on getting things reported correctly, not on deletion/not paying.

 

So, if BK is a right, and deletion is a right (per the FCRA), why are you even posting?

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The last post in this topic was posted 5345 days ago. 

 

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