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The Be All, End All ID For Signed Card Threat

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I was just angry alan. Usually I walk out with the goods cause they are not allowed to ask for my receipt. Why spend my hard earned money paying for stuff I always say.

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Ya'll will probably hate me for telling your this. But I feel it warrants discussion.

 

Sometime in a city far far away in the calender year 1998 I had a shall we say contrary customer.

 

He wanted to buy an "ad priced car" I had the car available for sale. And I had several people at the same time trying to buy the vehicle.

 

It was a new vehicle. For the price it was offered for sale,which was a loss leader for me, I could have less whether it sold or not.

 

If it did sale it would most definately be sold under the terms and conditions I established.

 

I was a general manager for a very large automobile franchise. My credit card agreements for the sales departments were under seperate corporate names for the sales, parts, and service departments.

 

On the sales department end of it, I flat out refused to take a credit card in payment of more than 5,000.00. The car the gentleman wanted to buy was like 20,000.00.

 

He had the available limit on his credit card, I refused to accept if he would not pay the fee that I would have to pay.

 

He said he would not pay it. So I said, have a nice day. Goodbye.

 

NOOOOOOOOOO he wanted to buy the car.

 

Then Sir go to your bank ya better hurry before they close and bring me back certified funds or green money cash and you can have the car.

 

He said that's too much trouble and refused. And wanted to write a check. I refused to take a check over 5,000.00.

 

Next week very nice lady call me and said I was in violation of the Master merchant agreement and to be sure I read it closely and I could not charge the consumer a fee for the privilege of taking their card.

 

In my sweetest voice I said OK. but the next time it happens YOU either waive YOUR processing fee for those large amounts or I will charge it and you can come get your machines for all I care.

 

Two weeks later I recieved a communication from the states OFFICE OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS where the consumer filed a complaint against me.

 

I responded to the Office of Consumer Affairs although that I was a Corporation, the corporation was privately held and I as a business man had the right to protect the better interests of my business.

 

If the consumer could not pay me in a manner I FOUND ACCEPTABLE FOR MY MERCHANDISE he was not welcome in my store. The STATE was not in the business to regulate the methods in which I deemed acceptable payment. That was my perogative as a busniness person, and I exercised my judgement for the betterment of my employees and the overal profit of my tax paying business.

 

I reitirited to the Office of Consumer Affairs, that the gentleman could STILL purchase the vehicle from me for the advertised price provided he could tender payment on my terms.

 

 

I also offered financial arrangement with one of my local banks provided he agreed to the terms of the loan I would offer. He likewise refused this offer.

 

In this case the Office of Consumer Affairs supported my position, and the Credit Card company didn't do squat. I informed them that if that account was pulled they would then loose all transactions from the SEVERAL other stores. And I would find another bank and initiate another Master Merchant agreement with another vendor. There is plenty more out there.

 

In my old age, I have managed to be a wee bit nicer nowadays.

 

Anyway my two cents worth, And I don't mean to insult or tick anyone off, for me it was a matter of control and my preset administrative procedures that I made everyone adhere to in that particular point in my career.

 

PS, that was corporate policy not initiated by me, but administered by me.

 

PS PS PS I appreciate the way this has remained civil, and I thank each previous poster.

Edited by MarvBear

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Hello everyone!

I'm newbie on this board, but have been around for a while. This is my first post, and it happens to be in one of the most debated topic in the forum.

I don't oppose to the Visa/MC policy, Nor will I support it. But as far as signature ID is concerned, I think Visa/MC policy may lack something.

I came across a very interesting article while surfing the net, and I have a great time reading it, and hope you guys enjoy, too. Please click on the link to read the article.

http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/

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I went to target today and some guy asked for my ID so I shot him.

 

 

Pic: knowing you, YOU went to TARGET practice against a JDB of some sort, so they deserved to get SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

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That was hilarious princess. Just another little funny story. Our local grocery store lets you scan and bag your own grocerys. You swipe your credit card and sign it with an electric pen which comes up on the screen. It had been a few days since my last booty call so I signed it 'give me some action' so my wife could see it hit the screen.

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Well Marv I would think in a case like that I as a consumer wouldn't feel right about asking you to pay fees on a transaction like that, it's kinda hard to argue policy when someone's going to end up losing that much on a deal.

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Well It was a matter of being nice.

 

The guy was unfortunately a hot shot IMO opinion and I am sure he thought the same of me.

 

I had a number of black salesmen and black salesladies working for me, along with a number of white salespersons also.

 

He was very rude to the black salespersons and point blank told them to get him someone else to help him, he didn't want to have a "N word" wait on him.

 

 

I dont mean to offend anyone, at all by this post by the aforementioned two paragraphs. So everything went downhill from there.

 

If people in my employ regardless of their race/color/regligion/sexual preference were not good enough to help him I told him point blank HE DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BY A CAR FROM ME. HE NEEDED TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

 

He just didnt want to leave and decided to push the issue.

 

He got pushed back. He offended my people, they were MY PEOPLE, they worked for me, I respected them and would not have them treated with ill respect.

 

HE DID COME BACK later and pay cash for the car, So I got the pleasure of filling out a IRS FORM 8300 (I THINK IT IS) on the flowerpot.

 

And I paid the salesperson 1,000.00 dollars as a minimum commission. I have always supported my people and congratulate them for the endeavors.

 

I am just trying to do the same here on creditboards and hopefully we can have a legitimate discussion regarding this topic.

 

There are truly many avenues we can explore if we can manage to keep it on topic.

 

I only want what is best for everyone here and it to be as accurate as possible and as helpfull to many as possible.

 

We are now approaching nigh to 20,000 members. Lets help each other out all the time all we can.

 

Again I thank each previous poster for their contributions.

Edited by MarvBear

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Hello everyone!

I'm newbie on this board, but have been around for a while. This is  my first post, and it happens to be in one of the most debated topic in the forum.

I don't oppose to the Visa/MC policy, Nor will I support it. But as far as signature ID is concerned, I think Visa/MC policy may lack something.

I came across a very interesting article while surfing the net, and I have a great time reading it, and hope you guys enjoy, too. Please click on the link to read the article.

http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/

 

Those merchants should have refused the sale when they were checking the signature and there was no resonable match.

 

With the self-swipe, the signature is really just a formality anyway.

 

Back to topic...

 

MarvBear's post makes a good point. The credit card companies rules can hurt business. Having to pay for a $2.00 transcation isn't good for the business, nor is the fees of a $20,000 transcation.

 

However, these businesses signed an agreement with the credit card companies. They are obliged to follow that agreement... and if they don't want to accept a $2, or $20,000 transcation, or cards without ID, then they should not accept the terms of the contract.

 

The interesting thing with car dealers... mabye Marv can answer... is it true the dealer makes out more money by having the person finance it? Does the dealer get more money if I pay for the $20,000 car via taking a loan vs say paying with it on a Visa card, or paying with a check?

 

I see the risk of a check... what if the check bounces and the person is long gone with the car or something.

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Sorry to go off topic, but Marv you are right...

 

Form 8300 from the IRS... cash over $10,000

 

Back to topic:

 

Does anyone see a difference between the 4 big violations:

 

1) Minimum value to use credit card

2) Maximum for creit card

3) requiring ID on signed card

4) adding a fee to use credit card

 

Are they all the same in the scope of "how bad"... or is one worse than another.

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Yes if financed with me, then if written even at retention I make a small fee from 50 to 200 dollars.

 

If I mark the rate up, then there is more money in it for me. BUT the rate mark up is not paid at a 100% level.

 

say my buy rate is 5 % and I charge 6%, I do NOT recieve the difference from the 5-6% figure I only recieve 70 % under prevalant agreements.

 

So it is a trade off in most cases.

 

Thats why the Master Merchant agreements for the sales departments were signed with a different corporation. Let em yank em. I'd just get another.

 

FWIW now the corporate policy for my current company is NO LIMIT on the amount we will accept. NOR NO FEE IMPOSED AT ALL.

 

It is purely a corporate decision.

 

Hope I helped a little bit.

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1) Minimum value to use credit card

2) Maximum for creit card

3) requiring ID on signed card

4) adding a fee to use credit card

 

Are they all the same in the scope of "how bad"... or is one worse than another.

 

As a purely personal opinion, I personally dislike #4 the worst followed by #1.

 

#2 is ludicruous

 

#3 I agree with most of you previous posters, it depends on my mood.

 

If I been in line a long time and just wanna go (cause maybe I gotta pee and dont wanna use their public facilites and showing my ID will make it go quicker then I will. If I am basically loitering I dont wanna be rude to an underpaid clerk so I just ask to see the manager and explain the situation and tell him/her they need to look into this.

 

I have never written a complaint simply because my time is so limited and I have bigger fish to fry with EX, EQ, and TU that requires my letter writing skills such as they may be.

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MarvBear

 

Hibernation time now.

 

Later all and take care.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

 

SNORE SNORE SNORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I like that the 'Bear mentioned not being rude to the underpaid clerk. It really doesn't do any good.

 

Gripe at the ignorant people who are being paid stacks of money to take crap and make people happy and who are telling your underpaid clerks to check ID :) Then gripe at Visa/MC/Amex so they'll know it's a policy that we appreciate. And be sure to put the complaint in writing so you don't just have some poor soul trying to placate you on the phone, you have someone read something that requires a response.

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Dear XXXXXXXX:

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

Please know that in an attempt to reduce mail/phone/internet fraud, American Express is encouraging Merchants to obtain and verify the Cardmember's CID. Also, please know that American Express is partnering with some Service Establishments to combat some types of mail and phone order fraud by confirming the 4-digit number printed on the Card, which is internal reference information used to reduce fraud.

 

We would advice you that as long as the Merchant is a well known establishment, you may release the 4-digit number.

 

I hope you find this information helpful.

 

========Original Message========

 

I know that with Visa/Mastercard requiring additional identification for completion of a transaction is strictly forbidden, but with Discover merchants may do so at their discretion. What is the American Express policy on requiring ID for purchases with a valid signed card?

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And Visa has established that they make more money off Subway and Walmart than to care about the policy.

 

:clapping:

 

-Subprime

 

 

Yep broke in the New BOA Visa last night a Walmart bill was 238.00 Swiped the card Signed the LCD screen got a Smile and My reciept and Moved on ! she didnt even Match the Signatures much less ask for ID :clapping: I guess with all the securtiy camera's Atleast one of them was filming the registor!

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$20,000 ON PLASTIC vs NO SALE

 

NO SALE IS REALLY BETTER???

 

 

yes, in this particular instance yes. The margin would have been eaten and then some for the trans fee I would have paid.

 

But in the end it was more than that. He was very disrespectful towards my salestaff, and I deliberately chose to be an arrogant SOB.

 

He got exactly tit for tat and I managed to follow my corporate policies.

 

and furthermore had he agreed to pay me MORE than the agreed upon price PLUS the fee for the transaction I WOULD NOT have allowed him to use the credit card IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

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Lol, I thought you hated this topic.

Not anymore, now that I have seen the smartness of being 100% credit this is good stuff.

I still have to collect Daddy's bills in cash but that's just the way the business is.

But for me and my daily expenses it's plastic all the way. Thinking I'm going to use Tuesday nights to do online payments to keep the credit line in check. Tuesday has always been payday so it makes good sense.

As soon as my bankrupt butt can qualify for a miles or rewards card I'm good to go.

 

Didn't have much chance of an ID check hassle today, ate lunch at home and the Mrs. doesn't recognize cash, if you know what I mean!

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I PAID MY UNITED VISA IN FULL BEFORE THE BILL CAME IN THE MAIL...BETTER THAN PAYING CASH AND CHEAPER TOO!!!

 

I COULD HAVE SCHEDULED IT FOR THE DAY BEFORE THE DUE DATE IF I WANTED TO...

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I PAID MY UNITED VISA IN FULL BEFORE THE BILL CAME IN THE MAIL...BETTER THAN PAYING CASH AND CHEAPER TOO!!!

 

I COULD HAVE SCHEDULED IT FOR THE DAY BEFORE THE DUE DATE IF I WANTED TO...

That's way cool, Orchard will only let me pay 10% over the current balance. I am thinking just click pay in full every Tuesday night. It will be against my checking account where I just got instant credit for today's cash reciepts. Sounds like a cool plan. Then as soon as my lawsuit with Amex is over and my point score goes up I'm going for something with points or miles to start reaping the 100% credit card life. Nothing like the inexpensive cost of selling your personal purchase and location data to some impersonal corp. to make you smile.

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The CID/CVC value is simply a 3 or 4 digit code used to verify the card.

 

Basically, you have to have the card to check the CID/CVC number on it. If a CVC/CID is required, then just the card # alone will be enough for fraud.

 

Of course if your card is physically stolen, the theif has that CVC/CID.

 

Back to the topic. I would say that going 100% credit is a pretty good idea for the rewards... I may consider doing this... just usse cash when it is not accepted (like a toolboth, small store that doesn't take cc, soda machine, etc)

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The CID/CVC value is simply a 3 or 4 digit code used to verify the card.

 

Basically, you have to have the card to check the CID/CVC number on it.  If a CVC/CID is required, then just the card # alone will be enough for fraud.

 

Of course if your card is physically stolen, the theif has that CVC/CID.

 

Back to the topic.  I would say that going 100% credit is a pretty good idea for the rewards... I may consider doing this... just usse cash when it is not accepted (like a toolboth, small store that doesn't take cc, soda machine, etc)

"Nothing like the inexpensive cost of selling your personal purchase and location data to some impersonal corp. to make you smile.

"

 

Alan was NOT being serious when he said that about going 100% credit. Reread. Think "I've learned to love Big Brother".

 

I'm kicking myself for continuing his banter by commenting on his comments. Why he continues to make fun of those who've been successful with credit and go for miles and cashback and whatnot only he knows but I have a pretty good idea. I don't think anyone was looking down on his situation so there's no need for him to make it into a class struggle thing. His being antagonistic in such a seemingly polite way is an extra slap in the face. I apologize in advance for bringing this up. Yes I know talking about it will get him started again, but he's already started, he even bumped the thread, he's got some kind of point to prove.

Edited by Elotemuygrande

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