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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/usa-banks-creditcards-probe-idUSL1N0BWM3I20130307 When the banks sell delinquent credit card debt to the JDB's they provide very little information - just a list of accounts, names addresses and SS#'s if they have it. and most times, the accounts are sold " without recourse " - meaning that the banks don't guarantee that this information is correct , and there is no recourse available to the JDB's if the accounts sold were disputed, ID theft or due to additional charges after the consumer paid off the account. The JDB's then use these records to file lawsuits and attach affidavits attesting the bank records they claim to hold. All ties back to the FTC's investigation of the Big Nine JDB's , http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2013/01/debtbuyer.shtm and class action lawsuits against Midland robo signing http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=465175&hl= and class action lawsuits against LVNV funding where 10's of thousands of lawsuits were dismissed. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-09-09/business/bs-bz-debtors-settlement-lvnv-20110909_1_debt-collection-settlement-forgives

I've been wanting to get a Chase Freedom, but I have no credit history at all (AFAIK -- CreditKarma said it couldn't find anything for me). The plus side is that I am about to start a job making ~$160k/yr gross income. How likely is it that they'll approve me? More details: - 24 years old - I've been a student up until now, and never needed a credit card or any kind of credit before. I only recently realized that I've been missing out on cash back & bonuses, and also building a credit history. - Since I was a student with not much income, I have virtually no money saved up (only less than $5k). I called a Chase rep using the number on their website, but she avoided my questions and said I would need to apply to be considered. I'm worried about applying because of the hard pull, especially since they might reject me for having no credit history. I'm considering applying anyway, and then going through a reconsideration (based on this thread: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Chase-Freedom-card-reconsideration/td-p/2501207 which is somewhat similar to my situation), but I really have no experience with this so I don't know what to expect. One of the things I'm wondering, too, is if they will ask for proof of income of some kind? Because as of now, I've signed the job offer, but I haven't started work yet, so I don't have any kind of payroll record. Any help/recommended courses of action would be much appreciated.

Hi, CBers! Looking for advice about Chase and Southwest cards, particularly how it applies to obtaining a Companion Pass. Any input is appreciated, especially if you have personal experience with any of the scenarios described below. As always, thank you all SO MUCH for any help that you can provide! Long story short, I have determined that it was time to update my credits cards earlier this fall. Particularly, I decided I finally want to get the CSP, for its 2x points on dinning and travel and the transfer options into Southwest and United, which are the number one and two airlines that I fly. I also decided that I really, really want to get the Southwest's Companion Pass, preferably earlier on in 2015, so that it would be good for almost two years. So, with that in mind, my initial plan (which, I admit, I didn't really think through really well) was to obtain the Southwest Premier Card and then obtain the CSP. I was hoping to get the 50,000 Rapid Rewards points bonus post on my account in early January and have the CSP's 45,000 post some time in February. From there, I was going to transfer 50,000 UR points to Southwest, through Hyatt, earning me 30,000 Rapid Rewards points. After that, I would just need 30,000 more Rapid Rewards points, which I planned on getting through travel and using my Southwest Premier Card. Since I fly Southwest a lot, my plan was to keep both the Southwest Premier and CSP, despite the annual fees. Well, I applied and was approved for the Southwest Premier as planned in about a month ago I am almost to my spending threshold and will wait to hit the $2,000 spend mark until after the New Year's, so that the 50,000 bonus will post in 2015, instead of 2014. So far, so good. But then I realized, that I would rather spend the 45,000 UR points from CSP's bonus on a flight to Europe on United, instead of "wasting" them by transferring to Southwest through Hyatt, thus significantly de-valuing them. Hmmm, dilemma. How to keep the UR points but still obtain the Companion Pass for Southwest early on in 2015? So, one solution is to apply for and obtain the Southwest Plus card, which is the younger brother of the Southwest Premier. The annual fee is less and I think you get less rewards overall, but the sign-up bonus is still 50,000 after spending $2,000. If I can be approved for the Plus card now and get the 50,000 points to post to my account early on in 2015, I will have 100,000 of the 110,000 required points for the Companion Pass. I can then apply for CSP and have that as my daily spender card. In the alternative, I can apply for CSP at the same time as Southwest Plus. These approaches pose two questions, however. And it is those questions that I hope someone on here has dealt with previously and/or has wise advice to disperse on. First and the most important question is can I get the 50,000 sign-up bonus for BOTH the Southwest Premier and Southwest Plus cards? The terms and conditions for both say: "This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months." The more precise question is what do they mean by "this consumer credit card"? At first glance, it would seem that the Southwest Premier and Southwest Plus cards are different consumer credit cards, seeing as they have different annual fees, different bonus structure, etc. However, I do not want to obtain the card, only to find out that I can't get the bonus after making the required spend because I already received a similar bonus on their different card. So, does anyone have any thoughts on this? Have you or has anyone you know successfully applied for both cards within two years and received both bonuses? Has anyone applied for both and been denied the second bonus? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!! The second, and no less important, question is what are my chances of being approved for so many Chase cards? I currently have two Chase cards, the United MileagePlus Explorer (opened beginning of 2013) and the Southwest Premier (opened a month ago). If I app'ed for another one or two Chase cards, would that cause me to be declined for one or both? Would you suggest applying for the Southwest Plus now, and then applying for CSP in two or three months? Or should I app for both cards on the same day? Also, do you think there is any chance of getting denied for the Southwest Plus card solely on the ground that I already have the Southwest Premier Card? If anyone has had experience applying for several/multiple Chase cards within a short period or even over a period of 24 months, any feedback and suggestions would be greatly welcome! Phew. That was a much longer post that I intended. But I figured more is less, especially when trying to get meaningful advice. As mentioned above, any and all feedback is GREATLY appreciated!! Thank you guys so much! :-)

Just called the Chase recon line regarding my Sapphire Preferred application. Called up and spoke to a really nice gentleman for about 15 minutes. I had a security freeze on Experian and I gave him the pin to lift that. He asked me a few questions about my BK in 2010. He asked about my mortgage and income. Then put me on hold for about five minutes and came back saying that he had to send it up the ladder for further review because of the BK. He said in 7-10 business days I would either get my card in the mail or an explanation for the decline. I asked him what his thoughts were and he said he was satisfied and he had been doing it for a long time and he had was good at reading credit... but yet it was forwarded for further review. Anybody get this message before? I really need to stop applying for cards!

On my way to Atlanta yesterday I got a text. I was suspicious When I got home I checked out online banking, nothing I then checked my email, email from Chase Fraud I clicked the link in the email, page error I called today. Actual card was used to purchase $200 at a dollar store in Columbia SC. Chase said it was in in store purchase so someone had replicated my card. My Freedom card was used at Home Depot and Target. New account One more TL This is the 2nd CC of mine to get hacked in the last 2.5 years.

Hey fellow CBers: I hope everyone is enjoying themselves during this time of year. I have a question. On December 15th I FINALLY embarked on my app spree after putting it off for longer than I had wished. Well it paid off (more to come on that in another post! ) My question is, I checked my mail on Tuesday and had an Invitation to apply for the Freedom Card. Here is my dilemma/question: 1) During my spree I app'd for and was approved on the CSP $22K and Ink Plus $10K (though I feel that I could have received more had I answered other usage questions with higher numbers). So will this Freedom Invitation be null and void with those recent approvals? 2) If I can apply, do I apply NOW? Or wait til I B* TU and freeze EX? (I am worried if I do this the new accounts will be reporting by then (total 6) and as of right now only Barclay's is reporting with 6 INQ on TU, but I can't freeze EX via online, says I must mail in, so I will call Monday. Any and all recommendations are appreciated! Thanks to all again, I will be updating CPDB and posting my approvals in the next few days. I know they are baby steps, but I am very happy with results and have CB and all of the awesome members here to thank!!!

Back in 2010 I filed ch 13 bankruptcy, converted to 7 in 2011 and discharged in Jan 2012. House was included and I never reaffirmed or paid the mortgage..stayed in home paying taxes and insurance waiting for them to foreclose. EMC and Chase sold the servicing to realtime resolutions. Debt for home was discharged and shows on report as included in bankruptcy. Last spring I recieved a lien release for 2nd mortgage and now yesterday I recieved a lien release for my first mortgage from Chase. Since the debt was discharged, did the bank just give me a house?

A little background.... I spent the last few years with FICOs bumping around between 650 & 680 as a result of several charge-offs and their associated late payments. The last one aged off in late October and when my scores didn't pop up at all I discovered there was a misreported delinquent account on all three reports. With the help of all you great folks here at CB I got that removed and BAM! 770s across the board in November! That left me with three cards in my portfolio- Merrick Bank @ $3100 CapitalOne QS @ $1000 DCU Visa @ $6000 As soon as my scores popped up I went on a bit of a spree- CapOne CLI to $4000 Sallie Mae @ $12,500 Double Cash @ $8000 DCU CLI to $10000 BofA Better Balance @ $9000 Planning a vacation soon I realized I could use Sign-up bonuses to cover some of the major expenses, so... Last Night - US Airways @ $10000 Which left me looking for a hotel card. Decided to go for the Chase IHG Rewards because it seems to be the quickest to get some free nights and BOOM! Approved for $24000! Nearly double my highest limit. That's five new cards and $70,500 more in credit (a seven-fold increase!) in less than 5 weeks. Couldn't have done it without all the great info and advice shared by so many generous folx here at CB!

Hello everyone. Happy Holidays. I received an invitation to apply for the Chase Slate card. Applied and received a decline. The decline is based on my TU, per the decline letter. I had no baddies, until Ocwen started reporting a mortgage that I lost in 2008, and stating that I was late in 2013, but now its current. I don't know if I should call chase and if i do, I don't know what to say. any advice? One or more accounts are not paid as agreed Length of time since oldest credit card was opened is too short Length of time since newest account was opened is too short Too many accounts opened in the past 12 months.

Emboldened by my recent and successful app spree, but disappointed I did not top my existing high limits, I am ready to start aggressively tackling CLIs. Start with Synchrony: I have a Home Design Furniture account. CL is $6,800. As of Friday, balance will be zero. I have a Care Credit. CL is $2,500. By next week, balance will be zero. I have a Lowe's. CL is $5,600. By next week, balance will be $2,500 (no interest). I see many posts on here to go for $35,000. My highest CL is $8,000. Should I go for $35,000 on all three and just let them make counters if that is not feasible? Also, do I do all three at once, or do I do one, hang up, call back, do another, and so on? Then comes Chase: I have a Marriott. CL is $8,000. I have an Amazon. CL is $3,000. I have a Slate. CL is $500. Makes me me sad just to type that. All will have zero or near zero balances within the next few weeks. How high do I shoot with these requests? Also, as with above, do I do them all on the same call or one at a time? If I do them one at a time, will it be three hard pulls or will they use the same one?Or, will it be three hard pulls no matter what? Lastly, say each card gets a $2,000 raise, could I then push limits around and make Marriott $15,000 with the other cards at $1,250 or so?

I received a pre-qualified offer from Chase Slate. When I use the chase pre-qualifier it says there are no pending offers. Does this mean anything important that i should be concerned or aware. Let me know. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Seeking advice.... I am about to embark on an App Spree and need to decide on either CSP, which I am pre qualified for OR the British Airways Card. My only issue is I have a 19yo going to Study Abroad in Austria May 2015 and he is traveling with classmates and BA is what they want to fly. I was gonna get DW to app for the BA card in Q1 2015 and buy ticket then, but kids wanna buy tix before Xmas break. We both plan on getting the card, just wondering if the 2.5 Avios is worth passing up the CSP now. Sorry if it's a ridiculous question or a no brainer I just missed, lol. Thanks for your feedback.

$300 chase total checking $100 chase savings coupon code WE777222367X2RGR Will mail it to you if you PM me

Up late again reading Creditboards and have a question. I am going to do an app spree in November and want to get a few Chase cards. I am pre-approved currently for their Freedom and Slate, but I also want to app for their Ink w/ the 70k bonus. Yet I don't wanna screw up my potential pre-approvals either, any advice?

Simple question. When do they release the Cash Back Calendar for next year?

Hello CB members - New girl here. I have been reading and I appreciate all the good advice I see here. There are a lot of experts here. :-) I would like to start earning points to travel on my own and I have read that Chase is a good place to start. I checked my pre-qualifications on the Chase website and it returned the following results - Marriott Rewards Premier Signature Visa United MileagePlus Explorer Card Sapphire Preferred (but I already have one) Slate Freedom Which should I apply for? I know some here have had good results from applying for multiple cards on the same day. If I choose to do that, is there a sequence I should follow? I have also read that its necessary to freeze Experian. If I do that, will some offers disappear? Background - I have 4 credit cards of my own. Chase Sapphire Preferred from 07/2013 with a credit limit of 12k Tiffany's store charge from 05/2012 with no set limit. Victoria's Secret from 01/2012 with a credit limit of 2900. Sak's Fifth Ave store card from 2011 with a credit limit of 8500. I have been an authorized user on my parents American Express (credit limit unknown) since I turned 16. Date on card is 1976. I have 1 inquiry on all three major credit bureaus. Thanks in advance.

Marriott is again running their 70,000 point bonus promo if you sign up for the Chase Marriott Rewards Premier card. You only need to spend $2,000 the first 3 months. The typical bonus is 50,000. A a card-member, you get a certificate for 1 free night every year. Typical rooms at their mid-level brands are 15,000-25,000 points, so in addition to the free night, the 70,000 points will give you another 3-4 free nights. You just have to look on a case by case basis. Many of the modest brands like Town Place, Spring Hill, or Fairfield can be had for 7,500-10,000 points per night, so 70,000 points would earn you a week or more. One travel site estimates Marriott Reward points are worth a penny each. That would make this deal worth $700, plus the certificate for 1 free night. The only drawbacks I can think of is that Chase is not the most generous in the game with CLIs, and CLI requests are typically hard pulls. Also, there is no annual fee the first year, but $85 thereafter.

In addition to reporting at statement date, it seems Chase is making additional credit bureau updates when you bring your account to zero. My statement cycled on the 12th and they reported a $400 balance. Paid the $400 on the 15th and today they reported again with a $0 balance. It's the second time that Chase has done that with me. Not sure if the threshold is $0 or not. Maybe next cycle I'll try and see if they update by paying off 50% soon after statement date.

My last CLI spree around September 22-24 resulted in CLI's on 4 or 5 cards but got the 7-10 day notice from CHASE. After I got the letter I recon'ed it. They totally screwed me up by doing this. Got a secure message from them early today saying "Per your request" we have decreased your Credit Limit Got on the phone with them and had to tell my story to 3 different CSR's and literally waited on the phone with them for over 45 minutes just to get my Credit Limit back to what it WAS because they screwed up. Telling them I NEVER requested a CLD and that THEY made the mistake on their end. But what really angers me is that they pulled another Hard Inq just to get my CL back to the original limit. Totally unprofessional. Only good thing is that I had EX frozen so they couldn't screw me with an EX pull. I won't be asking for a CLI from these guys for a LONG time. FUNNY Thing is that I just got 2 pre-approvals for a Slate and a Sapphire card from them in the mail yesterday. WTH Should have just applied and then moved the limits around.

My Chase Marriott statement cuts on the 26th. For September, that statement showed a horrific balance of $7900, on an $8,000 limit. I was awaiting a large reimbursement which arrived a week later than I expected. On October 1st, I paid that balance off in full, along with smaller balances on my two other Chase cards (they have statement closing dates of the 15th & 17th). When I updated my reports today, all three Chase cards show with a zero balance, updated October 1. I have never had a credit card update mid-month like that, but and I am thrilled I will not be showing that killer utilization all month. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this from Chase, but they already had my banking business and were my two most used cards (Marriott and Amazon), but they just keep finding ways to earn my business. When I look at how bad Lowe's sucks, as does Capital One, it is nice to have at least one credit partner you can count on.

I got a gift of sorts from Chase... Late last month (Aug 2014) I applied for a Marriott Rewards Premier Card. I froze EX like a good soldier and applied online for it (no previous Chase cards or history) I didn't get an online approval but it said pending. So I get a call from Security department saying that due to a fraud alert on my TU report my app needed further review. My TU had an alert because my wallet was lost/stolen. I answered a few questions like what was my address back in so and so year and could I name 2-3 of my oldest or closed cards. Then the agent said "Congratulations. Your application for the Chase Sapphire Preferred Card has approved with a line of 18k" and my 40k bonus points will be added when I perform the required spend. Then I told him, I didn't apply for a CSP but for a MRP card with an invite from Marriott for 70k bonus points. So he place me on hold for a few minutes and when he came back he said, "Congrats blah blah... for the MRP with a line of 18k" and that I would receive the card within 10 days. I asked if they could match my Flagship NFCU CL and they said no since it was only open for 3 months. and no counter offer. I said thanks, satisfied with the CL for my 1st Chase card, and ended the call. Well I got the MRP yesterday and went online to verify it and set up my account. Today I got in the mail a CSP with the same credit limit. And when I went online to verify it, my profile now showed both. I used both cards today and went online to see the pending transactions and there they were. Should I even call CS or should I just take the win and go about my merry way?! This blew my mind LOL I checked my CRs with SC and MPM and only one HP on TU is showing, btw... so 36k between 2 cards with 1 HP

Well after trying to freeze my EX report online I finally broke down and called them. Only took a couple of minutes but I just despise talking on the phone to "credit people". Maybe not "credit people" but it just amps my blood pressure up, LOL. Anyway, after I got my EXP frozen I applied online for a Bank of America credit limit increase. Had it over a year in June of 2013 and they started me off at $10,000. I left the amount I wanted out an applied, but it came back stating I had to put an amount in the CLI box so I put $25K. Came back with it increased to $18,000. I'll take that. Then called into USAA (they have always been super nice btw) and asked for an increase on my AMEX CASH card that they issued me at $13,000. I also had a Visa with them that was at $3,000 that I never use, but they said they would have to pull 2 reports seeing that one was AMEX and one was Visa. So I opted for the AMEX increase. Came back doubled to $26,000. HAPPY, I'll take that too. Then went to my PNC which is my main bank besides NAVY. Started at $10,800 and they raised me to $25,000. I'm happy with that also. Decided to try CHASE which was about 20 months old. Started at $12,000 and asked for $25,000. Had to call in for that one and the lady said that a underwriter had to look at it and I would be getting a letter in 7-10 days. BUMMER...............My CLI high was shot down So I said WTH and applied online for a CLI on my USAA Visa at $3,000 and it came back approved for $9,000 So I can go to bed HAPPY and content that I'm still in Garden mode with CLI's of $41,200.

I am seeing an attorney tomorrow re three old chargeoffs -0- balance on EX. although these are paid of no VoD c/offs. Although NY 5 yr purge requires their deletion, EX does not enforce or follow this state law. There is no way to pay the original OC's as they were sold to CA/JDB and have been resolved with those parties. All are past SOL due to NY SOL and the home state ruling here in NYC of the CC's SOL. These will be on my TL's with EX until early 2016. They are all off my other CRA's. My reports, excepting my mortgage which is in court, is clean but for these. It also rules out re-upping with AmEx on my own with a 1992 date. I have frozen EX. I am in "special Handling' with a Jennifer King who handles difficult credit files such as me who report them to the NYAG and CFPB. She affirmed this suspicion. Except for Verizon and Cap One, I have no inquiries with EX in the last year. Bank of A Visa, who has all of their records, has the DoFD wrong and the contract date is in question. My contract date was with Fleet bank whose portfolio was bought out in early 2004. I doubt that they have it because they supplied all of my statements but did not include the contract, which I requested. I sent them a re-investigation letter request and they have NOT responded. I sent the same letter to Chase and Cap One, who responded immediately. This is for about $5K.-0- bal. EX removal date 2/16. My old Bank of A mortgage -0- balance, and very in arrears, was sold, -0- balance reported and all reports say that this old TL has very little impact on my credit scores. DoFD there was 4/09. Chase Visa , who has claimed to have NO statements or NOTHING, twice (yes, I have the names and numbers, etc), has responded to my letter requesting the information used to affirm this listing, asking me to contact the JDB, Midland, who also claims to have NOTHING except my last statement, which they sent to me. EX Removal date 4/16. I have some statements and I believe that I signed up over the phone for this huge $790 amount owed. I can confirm amounts paid through my bank statements. I was hitting the skids when I got this CC so payments were few and far between. Cap One, whose debt, $8500, was sold to PRA, was settled with PRA in 2010. EX removal 6/16 but my last payment in full was 11/08 and I have just received old bank statements which would affirm this which would result in a changed DoFD. They also claim to have purged their files and have nothing except the month and year of sale to Portfolio, not even the amount. They have referred me to Portfolio which also claims to have nothing. I paid through a law firm. Ex has removed the PRA account. I was a total rube when I went to court with them and when the judge told me that the payment would put this all behind me, i believed him. I had no idea re credit reports and CRA's and OC's and CA/JDB, I knew nothing. Unfortunately, my records re this settlement so far as the statements,which I had, are in deep storage and it would require an act of God to find them. Question: I have requested initial investigation and 'reinvestigation" with EX who has re-affirmed the reports as submitted to the CRA by the OC's. I then wrote a request for the information backing the OC affirmation and got the responses above. A little more paper work and I will see the attorney who got my huge Citibank debt resolved/settled due to their technical faults in billing and interest in violation of the CARD act. So he is pretty fabulous. BUT, in having disputed them, and showing them as disputed accounts, and given that they are all in early 2009, is the damage to my score by dealing with the OC's re a 623 going to ding my score more if they yet again re-report or is the risk worth it? How much effect does these old OC ChargeOffs's have on my EX score. If I remove one or two through a 623, will it be worth it apart from improving the report? Has anyone else pushed the envelope this far to see what the ding so many years ago really amounts to? I want clean reports and I don't want to get declines after I clean up my mortgage as much as possible. Also, does anyone know if a mortgage reports on the same basis year-wise on a CRA? i realize that this is involved and long but would welcome any insight possible into this as I may be shooting myself in my foot. Thanks so much if anyone can assist prior to my meeting with the attorney.

Had a 60 day late 2 years ago on my chase card, sent a goodwill letter, and they came back with cold denial based on 'accurate information was reported' remark. Below is my response. I plan to mail monday, let me know your thoughts. Hopefully not too harsh for it's own good. 8-22-2014 Regarding: Account No. Cardmember Service PO Box 15153 Wilmington DE 19886-5153 To XXXXXXXXXXXX: Thank you for your response to my inquiry dated 8-2-2014 regarding the above referenced account. I have considerable respect for your company and not only the reputable name Chase has created for itself in the credit card industry, but I also the appreciate the line of credit Chase has extended to me with respect to my credit card account . With this said, I find myself somewhat disappointed that your response didn’t seem to address the request that I made directly. Given the state of my personal life at the time of the alleged late payment (and without going too far into the more private details of my life obstacles at the time), I made a simple goodwill request that you grant me this one reprieve from, as you saw, the late payment. Your response instead addressed the accuracy of the information reported to the credit bureaus and did not address the unique conditions that I shared with you to explain what may have caused possible late payments in my life at that time, if they did in fact occur. Considering my previously positive experience with Chase I approached this situation with good faith that I was dealing with a company who valued its customers and the business they bring through both good and bad situations. In addition to this, due to more responsible use of personal credit lines my credit score has already begun to improve within the last 12 months. As I grow into a more responsible credit worthy consumer than I was in my younger years, I will have need of business relationships with companies such as Chase. My decision on who to do business with and who to recommend to friends, family, and business partners will rely heavily on who has treated me fairly and reasonably in the past. I would ask you once more, before time and resources are spent on investigating my rights as a consumer and your obligations as a creditor under federal law, to reconsider rescinding this alleged late payment from all 3 credit bureaus. If you refuse to consider this request, I would then ask that you escalate all 3 letters thus far and my concerns about my future business relationship with Chase to the manager of your customer satisfaction department before you respond. If the potential for a future private and business relationship with a customer is not important to you or does not impact your professional position, there may be others with Chase that might be more understanding and grateful of nurturing potential private and professional relationships. Thank you for your time in this matter.

A certain hotel restaurant cloned my Chase card and tried using it to purchase online air tickets from a site in Romania. Fortunately, Chase declined the charge as the merchant uses AVS. Now I see the account on my credit reports as closed with N/A in every field except for status. For status it states "No Status". Under Consumer Remarks it states: "Account in dispute under Fair Credit Billing Act." WTF does this mean? When I activiate the new card will this change to reflect the new account data? Or will I get a whole new tradeline? What else do I need to expect?