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Updated: 04/16/2013 This is what worked for me. Use it only as a guide. I think it can really help people that want to know the general process of how things work in the ''new age'' of establishing business credit. Ok if you want to get some business credit it's NOT going to be instant. If you look in my signature where it lists my trades you can see exactly how much I have and who has extended me credit. Starting from the top. Left to right. Is the order they were obtained. So you can look at it as ''Easiest'' to Hardest'' if your just starting out. The first thing you need to do is sign up with google places using your business name and information.. 411 directory. White pages online. Yellow pages online. Superpages online. And any other directory you can find. It's hard to get listed with 411 but it's a must if you want credit. A lot of times before businesses will extend credit they will verify the business information by searching for the phone number on 411. Getting listed on 411 will take a cupple of months. Unfortunatly thats just how long it takes. 411 Get's their information from other ''Sources'' as well as accepting submissions through their own site.. By signing up for everything above it will not only help you get listed quicker but it will help you receive more business when people search for ''Towing company's'' ect. Trust me. The phone will start ringing off of the hook. Next. Sign up with DNB. https://iupdate.dnb.com/iUpdate/viewiUpdateHome.htm;jsessionid=3F4AA5AD50A26625D629DEC76E03D8EB.app2 DNB can automaticly create a file for you if you have been in business for a while (Similiar to how 411 works, You don't have to actually sign up with them but you can still get listed. (Just takes longer). It's best if you sign up with DNB before they create a file for you. If they create a file with incorrect owner information it may be hard for you to get in at that time because you won't be able to ''verify'' the correct information they have on file, Which may be incorrect. DNB has a credit file for your business and reports ''Trade lines'' (Net 30's, Net 7's, Some revolving,Net 14's ect) and your payment history from company's that CHOOSE to report to DNB. DNB mainly handles NET accounts. Revolving accounts are usually reported to Experian or Equifax . These are the only 3 business credit reorting agencies that you need to worry about. DNB is FREE! DNB is FREE! I can sign on and look at my payment history, Change company information and dispute tradlies that are not mine (Happens occasionally. If they are reporting good leave them. If they are derogatory dispute them) at any time through IUPDATE. DNB will call you every month or after you sign on through IUPDATE and try to tell you that you have to buy a credit package from them for you to get any credit ect. WRONG! They will tell you that 14 business have tried accessed your credit file but enless you have this package they won't be able access your file.You won't realize it at first but almost every time they call you they will be attempting to sell yo something. You won't realize it untill after they are talking with you for a cupple of minutes. Do yourself a favor and simply ask them to take you off of their calling list. If not expect to hear from them at least once a month or everytime you check your file on DNB. They will lie to your face and try to sell you the shoes you walked in the door with. I am fine with selling things, but not lying in an attempt to sell things. With the old E-Update (Before they changed it to IUPDATE) you had to call in to get access to be able to login online to view anything. If this is still the case AGAIN they will try to say that you have to buy a credit package to be able to veiw anything about your company through IUPDATE. Tell them as many times as it takes.... "' No thanks I'd jut like access to IUPDATE''. DNB gives sales people a bad rap. They will lie to your face. They will probably tell you it can't be done anymore without paying for one of their packages. If you can't get anywhere call back and talk to someone else. Next you can start calling the companys listed in my signature. Again starting from left to right. Some will ask to pre-pay for 90 days .You may be able to get your credit file going quicker if they do give you the prepay option and you decide to take it. Some won't ask at all. I choose not to prepay for those that asked. Which was ULINE. Grainger is one of the easiest accounts to get. You can usually get it as long as you are listed with the Secratary of State. Even if you don't have any other business credit. Usually they will start you off with a 1000.00 Credit line. It's best to place an order of about 75.00 or above that way it reports as 100.00 (It's usually rounded up). 50.00 trade lines are ok but 100's or above look better. Don't buy stuff you don't need enless you just have that money to waste. Some companys take months to report. Some take weeks. Grainger and quill are the quickest to report (Out of thetrade lines that I have). They usually report within weeks. Some of the trades in my signature ask for a DNB number and some do not. They can find you on DNB even if you don't give them one by simply searching using their software. The company's in my signature are company's that I know of that REPORT to DNB with the EXCEPTION of global industrial and Pep boys (Does not report) and ULINE (Which does report but they asked me to pre-pay for 90 days and I said no thanks). A lot of other companys offer NET accounts but don't report. Usually those are smaller company's. Once you start viewing your report online you will have a good idea on whats going on and when you can move to the next step. I try to order from everyone about every 2-3 months. That way the information stays current. I did this especially when I first started up. The trades will stay on your DNB report for about two years with no activity. So that means really you only need to order once from any giving company that does report to DNB. DNB will refresh the info listed on your report with any new info reported by creditors. So if you purchase 1000.00 from quill and then two months down the road you purchase a small 50.00 order, that 50.00 order will soon replace the 1000.00 trade amount that is being reported. Not good when trying to build credit. And for anyone wondering, I never had over 100.00 trades reporting when building business credit in the initial stages. My higest cl on DNB was 250 (but showed 750 because there were three 250 trades stacked because they reported under the same catagory to DNB but were infact three different trades.) So if someone tells you that you have to make sure that 1 and 2 thousand dollar trades are reporting then come tell them to read this thread. And for those of you wondering about Experian and Equifax CRA's that I mentioned earlier (The only other two major business CRA's out there) there's a little trick on checking your progress with them. Experian no longer shows the number of trades the business has and now only shows if the business has one or more trade lines and does not give a specific number. Equifax still shows the business info and how many trades are currently reporting. Once you actually have a file with them you know you are on the right path. Experian - http://sbcr.experian.com/pdp.aspx?pg=sample&hdr=pp&link=5502&offercode=EXPSBpdebr-t&intcmp=EXPSBbusrep_marquee Equifax - http://www.equifax.com/small-business/credit-report/en_sb Any questions about ANYTHING? Post up here and let me know! I will be more than happy to help.
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I'm going to make this a short and sweet summary found the forums in 1/11 1st card since '08 in 2/11 ($400 MC by HSBC) 1st discover card in 11/11 ($1k) then had 3 fights: cap one (charge off): failed Public Storage (public collection?): tie [they will fall off next year so meh] LVNV/Resurgent (CA for cap one): WON! in 3/12 MC $400 -> $520 in 5/12 Discover $1k -> $1350 in the last year i have gained a minimum of 50 pts on all 3 8 days ago i was approved for a $900 amazon.com store card 3 days ago i got my very first car! a 2008 Prius touring package #6 it's been a long road & i thank everyone for the advice & encouragement.
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I'm just interested in everyone's plan for 2015. Are you rebuilding, just beginning, in a holding pattern, or are you ready to be a credit repair pro and help others? Did you meet your goals for 2014? If you want, provide your plan so you can come back at the end of 2015 and see if you met your goals.
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Hey there, I recently turned 18 and want to get a new car on my own (parents won't co-sign). I am considering leasing or financing a BMW, as my car is a bit older. The problem is that I haven't developed credit yet. What isn't a problem is my income, I make plenty to pay for the lease estimate ($550/month). I also won't have a problem getting insurance or setting up an auto pay or anything like that either. So, before I go to a dealership and make a fool out of myself (if I can't pull it off), I was wondering what options are available and any ideas. Thanks a bunch.
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A foreclosure that was eliminated months ago is being reported on my CR by Ocwen. They foreclosed on me in 2008, but it was a countrywide loan back then. Ocwen must have purchased it. Since I have never had a loan with Ocwen I immediately wrote TU and EQ to remove it as I thought it was an error. When TU wrote me back that they confirmed it is mine, I called Ocwen. It is mine, but the dates being reported on my CR are all wrong. Any strategy suggestions on how I can remove this? Thanks.
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http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2330942 There is a .pdf file to download. Lots of interesting info. The abstract is below. Abstract: We analyze the effectiveness of consumer financial regulation by considering the 2009 Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act. We use a panel data set covering 160 million credit card accounts and a difference-in-differences research design that compares changes in outcomes over time for consumer credit cards, which were subject to the regulations, to changes for small business credit cards, which the law did not cover. We estimate that regulatory limits on credit card fees reduced overall borrowing costs by an annualized 1.6% of average daily balances, with a decline of more than 5.3% for consumers with FICO scores below 660. We find no evidence of an offsetting increase in interest charges or a reduction in the volume of credit. Taken together, we estimate that the CARD Act saved consumers $11.9 billion per year. We also analyze a nudge that disclosed the interest savings from paying off balances in 36 months rather than making minimum payments. We detect a small increase in the share of accounts making the 36-month payment value but no evidence of a change in overall payments.
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Hi Guys, I pulled my Experian credit report and I saw that a law office has been pulling my credit once a year for the past two years. It's to collect a debt I owe from 2009/2010. How can I stop them from doing this? Is there a way I can find out how much time is left on the SOL on the debt? Also, when I got this debt, I was not a legal resident in the United States but I am now.Can this help in making the validity of this debt slightly illegal? Does this change anything? I also pulled my Equifax credit report but it does not have this information on it. Is this normal?
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Hi guys, My mother and I have the same first name and last name. I checked my EQ CR and there is a negative account on the report for Verizon. It says in comments " Collection Account, Account closed by credit grantor" There is no collection agency listed on the EQ CR. Now, I don't remember signing up for Verizon and this could be my mothers'. How do I go about disputing this? Should I send a validation letter to Verizon or to EQ telling them that account is not mine?
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Is there a way to get the CRAs to remove/delete a charge-off from my file if the OC has updated it from a balance owed to $0 and transferred? I have tried to get it updated or deleted and only one CRA has changed it from a charge-off. This is the only neg reporting thing on my report but it's still there and it has cost me nearly 175 points. So, the cliff notes version of my backstory goes a little something like this: I had an account that I chose to close because they wouldn't give me a CLI. I was told I could set-up autopays for the remainder of my account balance until satisfied. About six months later I was applying for a loan to help pay for law school and got declined. I was surprised because my scores were all in the 700's. I discover that this closed line was reporting 120 days late. Im fuming at this point and seeing red. I contact them and they say I haven't made a payment since the account was closed and I proceed to argue with them that's not accurate. I subsequently check the account I set-up drafts from to see all the money still sitting there. I speak with a girl who informs me that I can pay the past due, minus the fees, and then continue paying the account down. I could also request the late fees and such to be removed or credited due to the clear misunderstanding. I pay the nearly $1k and move on. About 10 days later I get a call from a CA that my account was sold to them. All HELL effectively breaks loose. I go through a BS circle of "he said" "she said" on my account and ultimately they refuse to correct their mistakes. The CA is confused because they see the large payment made and don't quite understand what has happened. While I proceed to escalate my complaint to the corporate offices of this bank and promise legal action if the now reporting charge-off isn't removed, the CA tells me they won't report anything on my credit if I want to just pay them the remaining balance. The catch is it has to be in full. So I agree, but it needs to be split up into two payments. About 2 weeks after the first payment goes through, a collection account pops up on my credit reports. Need I say my eyes are once again seeing red?!?! I reach out to the CA and tell them they lied and violated an agreement. I accuse them of fraud and they guy tells me the rep that made the agreement with me "misspoke" but that he would speak with their legal team and see what they could do. I didn't hear back from him for a week and sent them an email which also served as my notice to file suit. They never replied. I blocked their access to my account and reached out to an attorney. After consultation, I proceeded to make good on my notice of filing a federal lawsuit against them for multiple violations, including breach of contract, attempt to defraud and FDCPA. Meanwhile, they continued to bury themselves by leaving vmails, all of which broke the FDCPA each time by not giving the "this is a debt collector and message only for Bld08" elevator speech, prior to leaving the message and two of them they admit to making a mistake by reporting the item and that they were trying to have it removed but that it would not really fix my credit score. My lawsuit is still ongoing, as it was filed in federal court on Sept. 4, 2014.
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Hey everyone. I hope everyone has a great holiday. Does the Experian Credit Expert program work for bumpage? Let me know. Many blessings for you and your families.
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Hello everyone. Happy holidays. Received an automatic credit line increase from Barclays today. (Got that card thanks to the info on this site) I was waiting for my sixth month anniversary to call and ask for an increase. I started with 1,000 and they increased it by 650.00 Can I still call to see if they will give me more? Let me know.
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Hey, just joined here looking to get some advice and information on my situation. I just graduated college with a Mechanical Engineering degree in May. I started work and have been saving up for various purchases and moved into a nice apartment complex. I got married as well in October. There my background for you. When I moved to Dallas, I had to get an apartment for us. I got denied based on my credit regaurdless of how much oney I was making based off of insufficient credit history. I started to look into this more and got a account on creditkarma to see my scores. I have around a 591. I've never had a credit card in my life. Im only 22. I make 60k a year. The only payments I make are on my student loans which are 25k. I started paying off my loans 6 months before I had too. My wife had her college paid for and was smart and got a credit card in college to build credit. Her score is about 740. I've tried to get my score up by getting a card and paying off the purchases as soon as I could. Only problem is I can't get anyone to give me a card in the first place. I get denied anywhere I try. It's very frusterating for me. I feel stuck. Fast forward to last week. My wife and I both make over 6 figures combined and are replacing our cars with over 150k miles on each. I got a 2011 BMW 528i and put 50% down to get a reasonable interest rate of 5.64% for 60 months. We plan on paying it off early but we had trouble getting someone to finance us at first due to my score. The dealer gave me my score and this is when we realized why I have had such a horrible time getting financing. 4 years ago we were on a ski trip. On the way up to Colorado, our charter bus went over the side of a mountain pass, injuring half of the 43 on board. I was ok compared to the rest, but my wife had a significant lasceration requiring surgury abover her eyebrow. Her bill was around $30,000 while mine was only $2700. The driver of the bus was at fault for not slowing down around the corner while it was snowing. The bus company shut down across the entire US to avoid paying the money for our injuries. We had to sue the bus company which ended up taking a few months. By the time I had finally gotten my bill for the hospital, it had gone to collection. I was only 18 at the time. I didn't know anything about collections or credit history for that matter. Once I settled with the bus company I paid my bill as soon as I got the check. My wife took even longer This is hurting me today. I can't seem to get a head of this bus crash incident. I'm looking for some advice or guidance on what steps, if any, that I can take to explain my situation to someone who can fix this for me. We are going to be buying a house in a year and need to get this figured out so I can be a help instead of a hindrance to our credit. Thanks for reading!
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i have an issue with my Tu. I get it every month via Discover. Does anyone else have an issue with wild fluctuations month to month? Im going to want a car soon. Id rather walk in with a "good" credit score rather than a "fair" one. I have a friend who says his is the same every month. He has much better credit, I dont know if that makes a difference. Lets see. I use all my cards at least every other month. I pay off balances within two weeks most of the time. I do use one card much more than the others because it has a lower interest rate. My utilization rate has been 10% or less all year. Im kind of stumped and aggravated. *shrug*
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Hello all, It seems like forever since I have been here. In fact, it has been a few years I believe. A few moons ago, I got started repairing my credit and suddenly a divorce popped in front of me, then homelessness, and now I'm back on my feet with a great job and a place to live with extra money rolling in. My credit is still terrible and I really want it to be better. In the past I got as far as sending validation (or was it verification?) letters to the CRA's through CMRRR and got several replies back saying they were verified. I no longer have these documents, though. I had opted out at the time and I believe that is still in effect? Also, I had all my old addresses removed I think, but I live at a new address (obviously, if you read my previous paragraph). I have done some extra damage to my credit while I was homeless. I did some ATM fraud with depositing empty envelopes and withdrawing pre-approved cash. I also over-drafted a few banks (I have a hard time remembering which ones?). I can no longer own a checking account (I have a US Bank Contour account that my paychecks go into). ChexSystems (Or is it Telecheck?....Probably both) hate me. Maybe I've done more damage on top of that, hard to remember. Regardless, I am past that. Please slap my wrist and tell me I screwed up in a quick fashion if you don't mind. I believe that my best course of action is to get a copy of my credit reports first and foremost. I think I should also obtain both Telecheck and ChexSystems records as well. My questions are as follows: What is the best place to get credit reports currently? Scores are not important to me at all right now I believe, just the report. I believe I have already used my free annual credit report within the last 8 months. How do I go about getting ChexSystems and Telecheck reports? Is there something I should be doing before this? Thanks, and I hope that with your advice, I can follow through with my commitment this time. Regards, cSquared
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Hello all, It seems like forever since I have been here. In fact, it has been a few years I believe. A few moons ago, I got started repairing my credit and suddenly a divorce popped in front of me, then homelessness, and now I'm back on my feet with a great job and a place to live with extra money rolling in. My credit is still terrible and I really want it to be better. In the past I got as far as sending validation (or was it verification?) letters to the CRA's through CMRRR and got several replies back saying they were verified. I no longer have these documents, though. I had opted out at the time and I believe that is still in effect? Also, I had all my old addresses removed I think, but I live at a new address (obviously, if you read my previous paragraph). I have done some extra damage to my credit while I was homeless. I did some ATM fraud with depositing empty envelopes and withdrawing pre-approved cash. I also over-drafted a few banks (I have a hard time remembering which ones?). I can no longer own a checking account (I have a US Bank Contour account that my paychecks go into). ChexSystems (Or is it Telecheck?....Probably both) hate me. Maybe I've done more damage on top of that, hard to remember. Regardless, I am past that. Please slap my wrist and tell me I screwed up in a quick fashion if you don't mind. I believe that my best course of action is to get a copy of my credit reports first and foremost. I think I should also obtain both Telecheck and ChexSystems records as well. My questions are as follows: What is the best place to get credit reports currently? Scores are not important to me at all right now I believe, just the report. I believe I have already used my free annual credit report within the last 8 months. How do I go about getting ChexSystems and Telecheck reports? Is there something I should be doing before this? Thanks, and I hope that with your advice, I can follow through with my commitment this time. Regards, cSquared
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I just was wondering should get it from each CA or third party or get it mail or not ?
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I received a pre-qualified offer from Chase Slate. When I use the chase pre-qualifier it says there are no pending offers. Does this mean anything important that i should be concerned or aware. Let me know. Thanks in advance for your responses.
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I am currently working to have false or negative things removed from my credit. So far, Transunion has been very helpful and easy to work with. I am not having the same luck with experian and equifax. Is there a customer service number for them? I have gotten several things removed from my transunion, but am pretty sure they remain on the other two reports. What is the best way to file disputes and have it updated to all three, or is this even possible?
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Hey all, All of a suden, my capital one account, in good standing and 0 balance, is giving me an error when i try to access the authoized user section...here is the error as chris tucker likes to put it......"what the prol is?" am I the only one getting this error? Is it just maintenence? anyways, I'll call them in a bit but just figured this was wierd.
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I will be disputing with a few Original Creditors some derogatories they are reporting to the CRA's using the 623 dispute method as these came back from the CRA's as verified. My credit report only lists partial account numbers. Will these partial account numbers along with a copy of my credit report listing the item they are reporting be enough information for them to respond to my dispute as I do not want them to deny the request based on incomplete information.
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Hi. I am new and have been lurking and ready for about a month. I finally decided to pull my reports and post here. I have been in a battered women's shelter for 5 months. I now have my own apartment a great job starting at $13.94 an hour with a trucking company as a dispatcher and an opportunity for tons of overtime this holidau season. Here is my situation. I was with my crazy ex for 12 years. He handled all fiances. I pulled my trans report and score faco was 589 and $16k in collections. Lots of medical 3-5 years old and some of his credit cards where I was on them that are 5 years old. I pulled experion and score was 507. Total was $25k in collections owed. Again medical and credit cards joint with him and some cell phone and cable collections as well. I could not get equifax to pull. Said I had an account and I would need to call. I need to have my top teeth extracted and dentures VERY soon from where he broke a lot of my teeth and I am in severe pain. I also need a car as I am borrowing on that I have to give back next month. So I have decided the best thing is to file bankruptcy and start over. I am a frugal person and use to have great credit until I let a true sociopath take over and ruin it all. There is no way I cN catch up and I don't know how to afford the $2k needed for extractions and a denture on top at the moment but I am working as much as I ca to try and get there. Here are some questions: 1) what does it cost to file chapter 7? 2) do you think with my situation that would be my best bet? 3) if I file ch 7 how long before I could start to rebuild credit? 4) any suggestions on getting a car? Would a big here lay here for a cheap car work for starters? I can't afford to just pay a couple grand for a car. I would need a loan of some sorts and yes I know I would have a high rate but I have to start somewhere. I am rock bottom and just getting out of a shelter and Into an apartment and now Paying $850 a month rent is grocery plus light bill kid taking care of two kids us gas in the car I am borrowing takes all I have. This why they are letting me work overtime. I am suppose to get $1150 a month child support but dad is in jail awhile so that doesn't get received. I am just looking for advice on how to start and get my life back on track. My BIG issues is I need a car and i need my teeth fixed within next month or two MAX. Thank you for any suggestions or kind words. We do not qualify for food stamps or state assistance so I think I am doing damn good with what I have right now. Again thank you!!
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I am so overwhelmed. http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=533733&hl= I was sent this direction to post in medical- and I am attempting to start the process for the medical bills, but have so many questions! DO I have to opt out? What does it mean I am opting out of insurance also? My credit report came up with my maiden name (Been married 4+ years) does that matter? Do I opt out under my maiden name or my married name? Also, for verification, I have a couple of disputes on my credit report, I am not supposed to even look at those until I clear up the medical ones, right?
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Good day, I want to make this the starting point of my journey to homeownership. I know that posts on message boards can be very interpersonal but I want everyone to know that I appreciate any advice or help given. A short bio. I am a 29 year old male. I grew up fast and moved out of my house when I was 18. I put myself through school and had my own place when others are usually still living off the teats of mommy and daddy. I made mistakes mainly from having no financial guidance and plainly being over my head. I went through most of my 20s struggling financially pretty hard. I had to pick and choose what bills to pay and I got a sense of apathy as I just started not to care about my finances as I figured I was already ruined. A phoenix rising from the ashes. I am in a good place. I feel optimistic and relatively stress free. The only thing that stresses me out is paying off these debts and getting my creditworthiness back. In October I am getting married to my beautiful fiance and I have a nice comfortable job where I make about 75k a year. I am finally in the position to tackle this thing and never look back. Where I am at right now. My FICO score as of right now is 523. Makes me cringe hard. My EX is my highest score at 576. My EQ is 523 and my TU is 525. All 3 of my credit bureaus vary from the information that is on them. What I have done so far. I have literally no positive tradelines whatsoever. I opened up 3 secured cards this week to build credit which I haven't even received yet . I will always stay below 25% utilization no matter what and just buy gas and groceries with them and pay them off. The cards are Capital One Secured $200 limit, Fingerhut(cringe I know), and First Progress with a $300 Limit. I am also on the last month of my student loan rehab. So those tradelines should be healthy after and a nice positive tradeline added. The nitty gritty. Here are the contents of my reports. Judgment: 1/29/2010 $2,653 This remains unpaid. I am not sure how to approach this. There is an attorney that is basically forcing me to pay and keeps sending capias warrants if I don't. However the balance I have to pay is roughly $7000. I have literally no paperwork for this as I never showed up for the initial hearing. RI Student Loan Authority Date Opened 5/1/2009 Account Status: Closed Date of first Delinquency: 5/2008 Comments: Paid Collection Santander Bank Installment Loan Balance:$5434 Date Opened 7/12/2007 Date of first Deliq: 02/2009 Status: Charge-off Nelnet Loan Services 11-120 day late marks Date Opened:11/27/2004 Date Closed:05/2009 Comments: Transferred/Closed Nelnet Loan Services 11-120 day late marks Date Opened:11/27/2004 Date Closed:05/2009 Comments: Transferred/Closed US Dept. of Education Balance $3,656 Date of first major delinq:09/2012 Comments:Collection COLLECTIONS CA:Action Credit Alliance of Boston OC:Memorial Hospital of RI Balance: $233 Opened 12/1/2011 CA:Action Credit Alliance of Boston OC:Memorial Hospital of RI Balance: $560 Opened 1/1/2011 CA:EOS-CCA OC:Narragansett Electric Balance:$409 Date Opened 3/1/2013 CA:EOS-CCA OC:ATT Mobility Balance: $435.00 Date Opened:8/1/2012 CA: Midland OC:T-Mobile Balance $1111 Opened 2/1/2013
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This is a long read but well worth it. It illuminates the disgusting tactics JDB's stoop to to earn their significant profits. It also points to serious deficits in consumer's privacy and integrity of credit data - data which is so often passed around from thug to thug as they leach off the least informed consumer. Very sad. Should be required reading for anyone involved in credit repair. The article was in the NYT Magazine. It's entitled, Paper Boys: Inside the Dark, Labrinthine, and Extremely Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection. The author is Jake Halpern. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/magazine/bad-paper-debt-collector.html?_r=0 Apologies in advance if this has already been posted. I did a search and could not find it!