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  1. I have had my business since 2006 and have built up business credit since 2007. I have had numerous no PG cards since that time (and PG, as well). Unfortunately, many have gone by the wayside since the credit meltdown a few years back. Anyway, after seeing some here getting no PG approvals for the Conoco 76 gas card, I applied. I left the PG field blank and after getting a call to verify some business info, I was approved. I got the cards the other day in the mail. Then today I get this letter today. What the? I never PG'd the card or put any personal info on the app. Anyone else get a similar letter in the mail after getting approved?
  2. I am one of those that acquired my Key Bank MC back in the day before you had to PG them (2007). I have had the card since that time and have kept it in good standing. I don't know who the original UW was (Citi?) back then, but the UW changed to Elan back in 2009 and now Key Bank underwrites their own branded cards. Since Oct. this year (2013), I beleive. Anyway, I hadn't used my card in a while and was checking on my online account and couldn't log in anymore. I called the number on my card and they told me I had to re-enroll on the Key Bank website now (this is due to the accounts being transfed from Elan to them now. I was trying to log into the old Elan site still). While I was verifying my business info with them they asked for the last four digits of my SS. I told them they may not have that on file since I got the card in my business name only. I gave them the info anyway and they didn't mention anything else about it. My question to all of you that have a Key Bank card is are the old accounts now PG'd? Why would they ask for the last four digits of my SS to verify my info unless it was just a formality, perhaps, or for those since who have PG'd their cards?
  3. I originally acquired my Key Bank MC in 2007 with no PG required (did the X in the "personal guarantee" part of the form, as most did back in the day). I think at the time the card was underwritten by Citi, but then in 2010 Citi sold their credit card portfolio to Elan. In doing a Google search today I stumbled across this article, which I felt was great news. It seems that Elan really didn't base it's creditworthiness off of business CRs for new approvals or CLIs, but only personal CRs so I hope the change to actually being UW'd by Key Bank changes that and the cards become real business cards again. KeyBank acquires Key-branded credit card assets from Elan Financial Services
  4. I meant "request the closing docs" above when I was speaking of my mortgage broker possible losing her job (she did not want to request them with the acknowledgment (I had told her about it before in an email as well as phone conversation) of the land contract but did request them after I talked with her about the specifics of the contract at my approval. After that my friend paid off the contract before closing due to my not feeling it ethically correct to close with that contract not paid in full or removed). Just clarifying as I cannot edit my original post now.
  5. Well, we had discussed paying her back but nothing was for sure. In the state I live in, real estate contracts MUST be in writing and notarized to be legal and there was never a new contract drafted, signed or whatever before or after closing (even to this date), so this debt is not mine anymore, in fact, there is no debt as the land contract is paid in full (and I have texts from the friend that says I don't owe her anything as she owns the land now and there is no contract). Also, most of the discussion was for my business to re-purchase the land (I had been wanting to do this for some time to have a business presence in the area where the land was as well as have another business asset, etc.) and as far as what I have been told by my mortgage broker, business debt is not included in personal DTI. Aren't the banks only concerned with legal obligations and not things like five years ago I said I'd pay back Aunt Jo a few hundred bucks I borrowed from her? This land contract is and was no longer a legal obligation as of a couple hours BEFORE closing the home loan. With that said, I still did not know if it was right (although it could be possibly legal, dunno for sure) for me to transfer the land contract into my business before closing and I then decided to end the contract with the seller before closing (I have a sent email to prove this) and then our friend stepped in and was going to take over the contract and then just bought it out. While that was occuring we did discuss many things such as buying it back, terms, etc. but also about her just selling it, etc. as well (if you ask her there were MANY things discussed). In the end, we (really she, it is HER land now not mine) decided it would be in the best interest morally to just sell it and be rid of it. So that is what she is going to do. But honestly, it is her land now and she can do anything she wants with it as I have no obligation to it as of before closing on my current home loan. I did have personal consultation with a local real estate attorney recently, who told me that once that contract was paid in full before closing that it "did not exist anymore". He also said legally I could purchase back the property as after closing the lender cannot tell you what to do with your own money (an example of going out and buying 6 cars after closing was used). He told me that I did not commit fraud at time of closing. He also informed me that the land contract I had was indeed NOT legal at the onset, as it was not notarized and that is a requirement for a legal real estate contract in my state. He did, however, say that since I paid on it for a certain amount of time it would be looked at as a legal obligation (but it isn't anymore as my friend bought it out). One of the reasons I posted this and asked the initial question about buying the property back from my friend was to see if that was indeed wrong to do (since that was something discussed at one time, but nothing was set in stone). I thought it might be, but wanted others opinions before the final decision was made (which it hadn't been for sure, as I keep stating and many seem to ignore in this thread). But even with everyone's opinions here a real estate attorney told me otherwise, but I still feel ethically like I don't want to buy it back. So that's the way it is going to go. Also, I DID disclose this debt on numerous occasions to the mortgage broker on the phone and in a sent email (she claimed to not have received). I even disclosed it at the beginning of this process way back in April and my mortgage broker at the time said she's get back to me on whether I needed to submit this and then left it up to me like it was something I could decide on whether to do or not, not that is was LEGALLY required (the idea was "well, if it isn't on your credit report" and I agreed not knowing for sure this was absolutely wrong). So I chose not to, but that didn't sit well with me and is why I kept pressing the point on and on until I found out for sure and then took care of the issue before closing by having my friend pay off the loan (which I think is legal, having a friend or family member pay off a loan for you). Here is a definition of what a mortgage broker is supposed to do, BTW: Gathering all needed documents (paystubs/payslips, bank statements, etc.), Completing a lender application form. Explaining the legal disclosures. Submitting all material to the lender. As far as I know I told the mortgage broker everything and left it up to them to request the needed docs from me (which they did not apparently, nor was the explaining of the legal disclosures ever done correctly as I would have KNOWN for sure what to do and the legal ramifications of not doing so). I thought the mortgage broker was a liason between you and the lender and THEY are supposed to do the contacting and submitting of what they need from you. My first mistake, I guess. Otherwise you would just go staright to the lender for a loan, correct (which in retrospect is what I should have done and avoided this issue altogether). Anyway, as I stated before this was a HUGE learning experience and I now know what to do in the future (not always was trust my mortgage broker is one). Thanks for the answers again all. I guess the only issue left is the lender never knew the original land contract ever existe, which I don't know if that is entirely correct or not as I do not know if you need to submit paid off loans when qualifying or not (my attorney stated the contract did not "exist" anymore after it was paid). But if so, I did submit the paid off contract via an email to my mortgage broker and told her she could submit it and whatver happnes, happens. But she said told me all is well and she feels in her professional opinion that no fraud was commited on any level. And she was not wanting to submit the docs after I kept mentioning the land contract due to her possibly losing her job (she said they are "hanging mortgage brokers out to dry now"), but felt more comfortable after I explained the nature of that contract, which I then felt might be legal and even if not, it needed to be taken care of before the loan closed (which I did). So there you have it. The full explanation of what went down.
  6. Thanks for all of your kind responses everyone. OHO I re-read your posts and now see why you were so hard one me before. You thought I had actually gone through this process before when purchasing the first property. I hadn't, as that property was from some guy on Craiglist who owned a parcel and sold it with a privately drawn contract and did not even pull credit (He advertised it with "no qualifying terms"). He also never recorded the deed in my name at the county. So basically I drove by the property, called him up, met him at Starbucks and gave him down payment and signed his printed out contract and that was it (other than making payment to him every month from that point). When I went to purchase the home I just got and got a real mortgage, this was the first time I had ever really started this for real (other than pre-qualifying or pre-approval stuff). So I relied heavily on mortgage broker's advice to know what to do. I am sooo sorry for anything I might have done unethically and now know what to and not to do next time. This scare frightened the heck out of me, as I have never even been arrested before let alone want to commit anything to this degree. I had to do a lot of my own research I am finding out as now, I now know I could not even trust everything my mortgage broker said in the beginning. Thanks again for all of you help and clarifying and clearing things up for me.
  7. Just wanted help to try and sort this out. Also wanted to find out what could potentially happen as a result if fraud was commited as I wanted to come clean and fess up if it did and possibly take the consequences (which I don't think anyone was clear on). I honestly want to do what is right in my heart even though I am human and can make a mistake.
  8. I am sorry you feel that way OHO, but I honestly did not know for sure that what I was doing was wrong as purchasing a home is a complicated undertaking and I needed to rely on professionals to guide me. That is my mortgage broker's job, IMO, I think. Anyway, after thinking about it (and praying) I came to the conclusion that no fraud was done. The reason I now feel this way, is 1. I never really knew for sure that obligations not on your CRs did or did not count and 2. When I did start feeling more and more that they might, I rectfied the problem by ending the contract and then my friend decided to pay it in full BEFORE closing and signing and there never was a formal agreement on what would be done after that (just discussion). She now is going to keep and sell the property (refer to Brian's post above when I mention this). So at time of signing the loan documents at closing, everything matched my application criteria. It just took some time and discussion with people (including the good people on CB) to finally figure this out and come to this conclusion. Was everything with this loan handled 100% correctly? Certainly not. Was anything done full 100% knowledge decietfully? No. And when I felt something could have been I took measures to correct it. The best measure would have been to not order the loan docs and re-qualify. But even so, as I stated when I signed the final docs at closing everything was same as app. And I think fraud is constituted by intentional deciet. Anyway, thanks for helping me out with this issue. I do feel way better now and now know what to do and not do for sure next time. Take care.
  9. Thanks for all the replies everyone. The property was never recorded in my name and therefore would never have surfaced at closing. If there was any chance of that, I would have explained the situation and either signed or not signed depending on how it was looked upon by the person conducting the signing. I never "dodged a bullet" as none was or would have been fired. I just felt that something might have not been right with the process and wanted to correct it if need be out of moral obligation. I also never did much research on CB about mortgages, as I trusted ,my mortgage broker's professional advice on what was proper to do concerning my loan. So trying to say I should have known better because I should have collected all my information from CB is just irresponsible to say the least, as you can get ,many different types of advice off the internet. Some correct and some not and sometimes even conflicting (yes, even on CB) Bottom line is I now know better and will never do this again. To CB's credit I should have used a broker like Brian to do my loan as if I had I don't think this could or would have happened. Thanks again for everyone's advice and input.
  10. You are in the driver's seat, you could provide ALL information needed prior to close of your financial picture whether improved or not--goes both ways. I don't quite get what this means. Just answering your post, dont want to pile on the 'guilt' or pointing fingers...because honestly from reading I think you already knew you were doing something wrong by not disclosing. But to clarify what I meant...if you are claiming the positive change in your wife's income was not included then how can it be wrong if the negative effect a undisclosed loan on your DTI not being included matter...my response to BOTH scenarios is that it is up to you to report and have included prior to closing if pertinent to this home loan. Sidenote: It took me roughly a year to get to the closing table on my home loan, during that time financial scenarios changed [up, down, sideways] and nothing went undisclosed whether I provided or the lender kept track by requesting updates. Makes a difference when you are facing your new payments/responsibilities with knowing your financial controls. All of this stuff was disclosed to my mortgage broker. I wonder if I am supposed to contact the lender personally if the broker doesn't report it? I was told on numerous occasions that all that mattered was on my credit report. Then when I kept pushing the issue my mortgage broker then wanted to pull the plug but I explained in thorough the "contract" and she felt it wasn't fraud as she thought it wasn't a real legal contract. She then left the decision up to me if I wanted to order the loan docs and proceed. I said "yes". I then felt maybe it wasn't 100% right and then a friend of mine stepped up and paid off the loan prior to closing. So at the time I signed the final loan docs, I did not have that obligation anymore. Now I think she may keep it and sell it now anyway. So what exactly would the lender do in this situation? Would they really pursue legal recourse with all that circumstance and the real fact that I can and will pay back the loan? If they "retracted" the loan would that be considered a foreclosure? Anyway, I do not have "buyers remorse" over the house and did not have a year long decision with this. I am just trying to do the right thing after discovering I did the wrong thing being a first time home buyer and a newbie concerning the whole thing. If I had no ethics to begin with, I would not have even posted this thread, at least, that's what I think. Most would not even care and just pay their loan payments and be on their merry way so to speak.
  11. If thats the case then nothing was done illegally. The wifes income and all if not allowable would not need to be on there for the purpose of the mortgage it is only allowable income that matters if she just stsrted and it is part time that may not have been allowed. I would just make your payments and not worry too much about it but you asked so we answered I kind of get the feeling you knew the answer. Have a good weekend enjoy the new home Thanks for the help Brian. So at the time of closing is when you state that everything is accurate and that is when you are legally attesting to that, not exactly at the time of the app?
  12. You are in the driver's seat, you could provide ALL information needed prior to close of your financial picture whether improved or not--goes both ways. I don't quite get what this means.
  13. Brian, what if the person who purchased the property and bought the contract out is wanting to keep it and I have no other obligation to it now?
  14. Well, at first I was told that if something wasn't on my credit report, then it did not matter. Then I did some of my own research (including here) and I got conflicting information. So after I felt it could matter, a friend of mine paid off the loan right before closing so it is paid in full. So I didn't know if that took care of the problem or not. Doesn't everything need to be accurate at the time of signing and closing and that is what you are agreeing is accurate and true? Quite honestly, the income of my wife had increased at the time of closing by a decent amount (for us), but on the closing docs it did not reflect that (she even had a new part time job that wasn't considered). So isn't that incorrect information as well? Anyway, I want everything to be "kosher" with this so if I need to contact the mortgage company and explain what happened, I can do that. I don't know what they would do, but I can easily afford the mortgage (it is less than my current rent) and fully intend on paying it on a timely and consistent fashion.
  15. I closed on my first home Thursday, it got funded Friday, and then got the keys Friday too. I do have a question, however. I had a private owner's contract for purchasing a parcel of property with a 60 month term prior to signing. I was into it a year at time of closing. Thing is, this was not disclosed in my DTI (as well as to the lender) and was told if it was my DTI would have been beyond approval criteria even though I make way more money than what they used to qualify me as they could only go off my tax returns being self employed (I was extremely close to the cutoff DTI and just about anything would have put me over). I also was told that the contract I had with the private party may not even be legal as it was never notarized or recorded at the county (the deed or land contract, etc.). I spoke right before the closing docs were ordered with my mortgage broker who was not going to order them due to this finding (even though I had verbally and emailed her long ago about this and tried to make her aware of it). I explained in detail the contract and then she felt it was a gray area and even a questionable obligation and asked what I wanted to do, but said she was comfortable pushing the docs through as it was possibly not even a legal obligation but probably just a moral one (I could have walked away from the contract at anytime more than likely). After contemplating it, I gave her to the go to order the docs. So this was not disclosed to the lender. But after thinking about it I felt guilty anyway and then a friend became ware of it and stepped up and paid off the contract in full right before closing and signing the docs (I can prove this if I needed to). We just agreed to pay our friend back at a later date. So technically this "contract" was paid in full at time of closing and before signing, whether a legal binding obligation or not. So my question is did I do anything wrong? If so, I am an ethical person so what should I do to correct it? Should I contact the mortgage company and just explain the entire situation? If so, what do you think they'll do? I was told that do to the nature of my "contract" I did not commit fraud from my mortgage broker. Was this true? I realize if I never tell the mortgage company, they would never even know about it, but want to do the morally correct thing even if there be consequences involved. Thanks in advance for all your help as I am confused with this.

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