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  1. Somewhat helpful. Unhelpful. If you too could refrain from additional commenting unless you have something useful to contribute with respect to moving the matter forward, it would be appreciated.
  2. Exactly. For the second time, if you could refrain from additional commenting unless you have something useful to contribute with respect to moving the matter forward, it would be appreciated.
  3. Said the meaning of "resolved in my favor" If a case against a defendant is resolved in the defendant's favor, that would be interpreted as a not guilty verdict. As stated previously, and repeatedly, it was reasonable given that I was told the issue was resolved and that I could dispose of the item. Given decades of experience with credit cards, wherein I had disputed transactions that never arrived or services not rendered, I had no reason to believe otherwise. It was their mistake to inform me the issue was resolved, and that the item could be disposed of. My mistake was trusting them, which again, as I've stated repeatedly, is not a mistake I will make again. Not relevant, or useful. @hdporter @hegemony If you guys could refrain from additional commenting unless you have something useful to contribute with respect to moving the matter forward, it would be appreciated.
  4. Exactly. That was the understanding - If there's a legitimate dispute, the option is there to retract the payment if the dispute is in fact, legitimate. As in, if you didn't get the item, you get your money back. Resolving the dispute in my favor means absolving me of liability. As in, if I'm not the "guilty" party, I'm not guilty, and thus not subject to punishment. Obviously things work differently, a fact of which I'm aware of now. Anyhow, as stated, it's a moot point, and I won't be using Citi again for any purchase, though I'll probably keep the card just to avoid having one fewer account. Other than this mistake, they've generally been pretty good, and certainly more effective than any local bank or credit union. I'll update the thread if / when I get new information from the parties involved. Thanks for your help.
  5. Mortgage is paid, and I already have too many credit cards.. Honestly, I only use them occasionally to keep the lines of credit open and keep my total % of utilization down, and for the rare thing like travel rewards. I'm generally a "cash buyer" - I don't buy anything unless I already have the money to cover it. But that's smart advice, so I appreciate it. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. I've been in touch with Citi (at this point, I expect nothing, but why not aggravate them after they dropped the ball?), my local AG office, and I contacted Lenovo. We'll see if we can't get this resolved. As always, I appreciate your help, and that of the other useful contributors. Apologies if my tone comes off as rude, it can be difficult to express at times via text without those silly emojis.
  6. Incorrect. Citibank did not do what I wanted it to do.. which was to resolve the issue. I figured if they weren't returning my emails and requests for shipping labels, they would respond a large corporation worth a few billion would. The goal was to simply be able to return the item and wash my hands of the topic. Please keep in mind that you are viewing this through the lens of somebody, with 89k posts on this forum, that is very familiar with credit, laws, reporting agencies, etc (I presume). I was coming at this without that background, as somebody who thought that disputing an incorrect / illegitimate charge with the credit card issue would result in the issue being resolved. I've had to do chargebacks / disputes on a few charges over the decades, and that had always been my understanding - which I've acknowledged, was incorrect. It's a moot point though - I'll just Amex for anything like this again in the future.
  7. I didn't order anything, any pending orders with them had already been cancelled. I don't open things that aren't mine, why would I? I understand this now @centex, but from the point of view of a consumer that has never had a credit issue or had something go to collections, I viewed the issue as between me and citibank. Citibank charged me, and I relied on Citibank to make things right. I thought they were legitimate, like American Express - I mean, the whole idea of a credit card is to have a mediator between you and a vendor if something goes awry with the transaction. Otherwise, I could have just paid cash / debit / cut them a check. I was not aware that Lenovo's agreement with Citibank / Mastercard allowed them to pull these shenanigans. Had Citibank told me that I would need to hold on to the package for over a year, I would have done so. Having not having a problem, I had no reason to believe they didn't have the authority to tell me to dispose of the chair. The money had been credited back to my card. They said it was resolved. Obviously, I'll know better in the future. After two emails with their representative, no further emails were responded to, and no shipping labels were ever provided. Further phone calls yielded no response, other than than to expect an email from a representative - that never arrived. I'm quite busy and there's a limit to how much time I was willing to spend on their shenanigans. I figured I'd call Citibank, dispute the charge, and they'd have Lenovo send me the shipping labels. The amount is a few hundred dollars and change. And on principle, I won't be paying them a cent. I'd sooner take the hit on the credit for 7 years if that's what it comes to.
  8. I appreciate your well thought out response @hdporter, however the chair is long gone. As per my initial post, I received a letter on or about February 2021 instructing me that the chargeback dispute was finalized (the money was credited back to me on or about the day I made the dispute). I called them up to ask what was to be done with the chair, and they said I could do what I want, because the matter had been resolved. I don't even know what was in the package, thought I have no reason to believe it was anything except for the lesser product that they said they were going to ship. How will that path work if there exists no merchandise to return, at Lenovo's expense or otherwise ?
  9. Is there some advantage to using snail mail vs. emails? I can get proof of delivery and request read receipts for any email, and it seems easier than printing out a bunch of nonsense and having to wait on line at the post office. I have copies of all the emails. The user agreement is no longer available via the website, as it has been updated since the initial order was made, and I assume (correctly?) that I would be bound by whatever the terms were at the original point of sale.
  10. That's what my impression was - I didn't think that my credit card company would side with me if I were in the wrong and the charge was legitimate. This sounds like a good idea.. the question is, do this via email or snail-mail? I feel as though email would be easier, save a number of slices of tree, and the trouble of spending money on a certified letter and burning the exploding liquid dinosaurs to get to the post office. This is what I am hoping. I really don't want to call these "people" and give them access to my phone number, as I don't particularly want to speak to them. Can anyone weigh in on whether or not this is a good idea? I love a good scorched earth but this seems a bit much, potentially. I have until April 20th to respond, so while it's time sensitive, the mere fact of me replying before that time (which it seems I'll have to do) should prevent anything from being added to my report. I could certainly call, but I'll need to be providing documentation I imagine either way, so why bother? A big, BIG thank you to the forum members who have taken the time to write and reply, this has been a major annoyance and I appreciate the time you guys have taken to weigh in.
  11. This was a personal non business related purchase, made on my personal credit card.
  12. I understand now that legally, the credit card company won't do anything - however it's ridiculous that they led me to believe the issue had been resolved and I could dispose of the chair. I naively thought I could trust a major company like Citibank given my previous dealings with them. I will not make that mistake again. Not sure what I can do about it though - I could cancel the card, but that would just shorten my credit history and lower my score. So as I understand it, you're recommending I contact Lyons Collections and provide supporting documentation for my case? I didn't want to contact them in any way, shape, or form, until I knew what to do / unless I had to. This was a personal debt. Appreciate your help cashnocredit. This has been a quite an ordeal with these people.
  13. I indeed did not accept the substitution (it was for a lower quality chair, but they wanted the same amount of $$) and they informed me that if I didn't respond, the order would be cancelled - first in 3 days, then in 5 days in a subsequent email. My issue is that they indeed told me that the matter was settled and that I could get rid of the chair. I thought that was the end of it. I didn't have any reason to doubt them until I received the this collections letter. The debt collector is Lyon Collection Services Inc. The letter includes their address and phone number, claim #, and says "Lyon Collections Services Inc is a debt collector. We are trying to collect a debt that you owe to LENOVO (US) Inc. We will use any information you give us to help collect the debt. Our information shows: You had an account, ending in number xxxxxxx, including invoice number xxxxxxxx. As of November 30th, 2020 (when they charged the card, *Admin and our Terms of Service prohibit profanity*s) you owe <amount> Between Nov. 30 2020 and today, I was charged 0 interest, 0 fees, and have been credited 0 towards the amount. Total amount of the debt now: <Original amount of chair) They want me to call or write to them by april 20 to dispute all or part of the debt. "If you do not, we will assume that our information is correct" They say I must write to them or contact them by April 20 they must stop collection until they send info that I owe the debt. I can respond to them and include documentation. I have done nothing yet because I imagine it's a bad idea to contact them at all unless I must. At the bottom it offers how do I want to respond - Dispute the debt because 1) this is not my debt, 2) the amount is wrong, 3) other 4) I want you to send me the name and address of the original creditor 5) enclosed is a check etc. I can post a photograph if that would be easier. I don't know if I should be mentioning specific dollar amounts on the site and such, but I appreciate any and all help that you can provide. I'll sure as hell never order anything from Lenovo, that much is for certain. Thanks for your time, cashnocredit. omniku
  14. https://www.lenovo.com/medias/Sales-Terms-and-Conditions-US.html?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8MTMzNzV8dGV4dC9odG1sfGg3MC9oYWMvOTQ0MTA1NTgwMTM3NC5odG1sfDgwM2RjYzkxMzNhYWYzOTJiNGEwZjU1ZjFhMWZkOGM5M2JhYzVmYTkwNzQ2OTk0ZWE5NjVkOWZiMWYwNzdhZmE The only relevant part I can find is with respect to returns, "n order to return a Product, Customer must contact Lenovo to obtain an RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization). Any authorized return must include the Product and all accessories in their original packaging, along with all documentation (i.e. invoice, RMA and original shipping label). It must be received at the Lenovo National Return Center within ten (10) calendar days of issuance of the RMA. Returns on any other basis may be refused by Lenovo. Customer assumes risk of loss and damage for Products returned without an RMA. Upon receipt of your returned Product, Lenovo will issue a credit or refund of the purchase price paid, less return shipping and handling fees and any applicable restocking fees." I contacted them repeatedly for shipping labels to return the item, and after two requests they ceased all communication with me, never providing the return shipping labels. The last instructions that they responded to were that they were sending me return shipping labels via email, were "A prepaid UPS Shipping Label has been sent to you in a separate email with further instructions. Be sure to check your spam/promotions/junk mail folders to locate the email if you do not see it in your regular inbox. Please reply to this email if you have not received the Shipping Label email within 24 hours of the receipt of this email." I replied to the first email letting them know I never received the shipping label. They then wrote: "A prepaid UPS Shipping Label has been sent to you in a separate email with further instructions. Please confirm if you didn’t receive the email from UPS." The email never arrived, and I confirmed that I didn't receive the email. All further correspondence to the individual I was dealing with were ignored, and calls to the 800 number yielded no results, which is why I finally went through my credit card issuer. Obviously the credit card company is trying to pass the buck, but they said the matter was resolved and that I didn't have to hold onto the chair (or whatever it was) any longer. Had they told me that it was not in fact resolved and I had to hold on to it in case they came collecting, I would have left it in the garage. Again, this is on a product / order that they themselves informed me in two separate emails had been cancelled.
  15. Hello everyone, new member, thank you for taking the time to read this thread. If this is posted in the wrong place, my apologies in advance (and a request to direct me to the proper one ) TL;DR - I did a chargeback/dispute for an item, the credit card company found in my favor, told me it was taken care of over a year ago. Now, I've received a letter from a collections agency for the amount of the charge. What do I do? Details: 9/28/20 I ordered a chair from a website, for a around $300. Paid with my credit card. 10/7/20 I was informed via email that the order would be delayed and would not ship on time, and that it would ship within the next 30 days. 11/4/20 I was informed via email that the item had been discontinued, and they offered to send me an inferior item (in my opinion) instead. The email concluded with: "We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. Please reply to this email if you accept this offer or if you would like us to cancel your order. If we do not receive a response from you within 72 hours of this email, we will cancel your order automatically." I did not respond to the email, assuming the order would be cancelled automatically. 11/6/20 I was informed via email that they have not been able to ship my order (yes I know) and that "if we don't hear from you within the next five days, Federal regulations require us to automatically cancel the remainder of your order. If you'd like to keep your order open, just send us an email by clicking below." I did not click anything or respond to the email. Between the two emails informing that the order would be canceled if I didn't respond, and not responding, I reasonably assumed that the order was canceled. I bought a chair elsewhere and thought that was the end of it. 11/28/20 I receive a shipment notification that they sent me a chair. On (or about) this date, they finally charged my credit card. I called them immediately to contest this but they said I had to wait until it arrived to send it back. Grrrr. 12/1/20 The item arrives. I don't open it. I call the company and request return shipping labels. They inform me the labels will come in a separate email. They do not. 12/5/20 I request return shipping labels again. They do not come, not in the spam folder, not at all. I confirm again that I have received nothing. All further emails about receiving return shipping labels to the company are ignored / not responded to. I dispute the charge with my credit card, forwarding them the email chain. I am issued a provisional credit for the amount of the charge. They tell me to hold onto the item until it is finalized however. 2/5/21 The credit card company tells me the dispute has been finalized, in my favor. I call them to ask what to do with the chair that has been sitting in my garage for 3 months, they say I can dispose of it or whatever I choose. Fine. 3/10/22 I receive a letter from a collections agency for the amount of the chair. I try calling my credit card company, nobody will be help me. I go into the physical bank, explain the situation to an associate and forward him the email chain. I suspect this will yield no assistance either. So now, I'm in a situation where over a year later, when I was told it was resolved and the chair is long gone, I have these "people" coming after me trying to receive payment for an item that was never requested (The original order was cancelled, as per the vendor, and I never approved the replacement) and that the vendor refused to accept back. My credit and such is fine otherwise, I've never had a problem like this before. I'm hoping that the minds here can offer me a path forward and let me know what to do in this predicament. I sincerely appreciate any and all help / insight you can provide, and thank you for taking the time to weigh in. Thank you! omniku
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