Hello all and thanks for all the wonderful information. I wish I could be brief but since this is a 10 year old story it will take more than 10 minutes to explain.
In a nutshell (large one about the size of the Keebler Elves house) here it is:
I went to a local university for Flight training in order to become an Airline Transport pilot. Included in this program (amongst other things to get a 4 year degree in Aeronautics) I took ground schools, in-flight training, simulator training, etc. I also had to pass first class medical exams to be certified to fly. I paid most of it myself but had to take out Student Loans to try to finish up.
In 1996-1998 I was having school/work/marital problems and I backed off from school, starting some counseling, etc. I never did finish my flight training at that point; I failed my second flight physical (these things need renewed just like drivers licenses). I had asked for forbearance until I found out if I could finish or not; I was granted forbearance. I had/have a personality disorder that I developed while in the service; it was/is still affecting me and that's what kept me from getting re-certified.
In the meantime the school I was attending closed their Aeronautics department and I was still unable to complete the 4-year degree, much less the Pilot's license. So I called the USDE and they said to file for a discharge due to school closure. I did on 9-11-2000 and was supposed to be under General Forbearance while they looked into the matter. I got a letter stating that my August payment was 30 days late BUT that my total due was 3 payments worth. I had paid them on July 5th so there was NO WAY I owed 3 payments at that time.
I got another letter 9-27-00 with the usual rhetoric saying URGENT and that they've been trying to get ahold of me (even though I hadn't moved, changed phone numbers, etc). I went ahead and filed a SEPARATE request for General Forbearance (which I was supposed to be under already) just to make sure. They had received it and it expired 9-11-2001 (creepy I know). They wrote back saying !@#$% University is NOT closed (even though I told them just the department was closed and no longer offered all the courses needed to finish up)
I emailed them for two more months after that (I couldn't get anywhere on the phone; most of those people barely spoke English). They finally acknowledged that they had received my application for loan discharge (False certification of ability to benefit) on Oct 17 2000 (their update was dated Dec 12 2000). They said it takes 60-90 days so it should have been resolved Jan 17 2001 or so.
FINALLY they responded with a letter dated Feb 9 2001 (although it was postmarked Feb 20th). My request was DENIED but when I looked at the specific subsections I felt I did qualify. BUT in the meantime they had kicked out a letter stating I was 120 days overdue!!! Keep in mind that I had filed for a General Forbearance which they accepted and agreed to which expired Sept 11 2001
Although online my account still showed 'suspended' it accrued 'amount due' more and more and more. I emailed the USDE about the false 120 days late notice. They responded March 7th 2001 that they were 'sorry' and that they "applied the forbearance to cover the complete period that your account was suspended." They also noted that my payment was now due April 7th 2001 EVEN THOUGH my General Forbearance was in effect through 9-11-2001.
I IMMEDIATELY refiled for discharge due to False Certification of Ability to Benefit as THEY suggested (footnote here: when I started with this dream of being an airline pilot I didn't know that the FAA has specific rules about not passing the medical exam if the pilot has a personality disorder/manifested by overt acts. Even in my DD-217 discharge papers it notes the personality disorder and the separation code is for Convenience of the Government--Personality Disorder). It's like getting a loan for truck-driving school and having some detriment that keeps you from getting your CDL. If you can't get employment in your state due to this disqualifying status AND you had it at the time the school certified your loans then you can have the loan discharged).
Anyway the first long chapter is nearly closed so bear with me. The last thing I received from the USDE was a letter stating that 'you may qualify under Disqualifying Status' and they enclosed the application. What a nice lady! So I filed the paperwork, proper documentation, etc. Showed the personality disorder, showed the FAA regulations (part 67) confirming this, showed that the university knew about this when I gave them my DD-214 (transfer credits), etc.
THAT WAS THE LAST I HEARD FROM THE USDE FOR YEARS!
Full Version: False info filed by USDE on my CR including BKs
Segway from the first part to the second part. I had applied for a mortgage reduction while rates were SUPER low and found the USDE had stuck several negative things on all 3 credit reports. I wrote a letter to the loan officer, showing all the correspondence with the USDE, how they were adamant about not discharging the loan, etc. Like I told them, "Even when looking on their own forms, if I qualify for a discharge I'm not requreid to pay the loan back. AND any adverse info will be deleted from my credit history, and I should be reimbursed for any payments made." (at least that's the written word; reality is quite different).
I imagine that's why they're so adamant about not giving the discharge that I qualify for and why they have been so hateful in not removing the false negative information.
In one flippant response from the USDE they said that they are trying to collect a public debt and are under no obligation to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act. That was March 20, 2002 when they said this. They also claim they hadn't reported anything to the credit bureaus since Dec 2000! BULL-loney!
I got my CRs and on April 22, 2002 I got a few false negatives taken off my CSC report BUT under the Direct Loans it says 'this creditor has verified to CSC that the current status is being reported correctly'. They had me down for 90+ days late which like I said is ridiculous.
At that point I checked the USDE website periodically and it kept saying suspended status, etc. I eventually got ALL the late stuff off my CRs. There was NO response to my filing for discharge/disqualifying status. So years ticked by with no word...........
I imagine that's why they're so adamant about not giving the discharge that I qualify for and why they have been so hateful in not removing the false negative information.
In one flippant response from the USDE they said that they are trying to collect a public debt and are under no obligation to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act. That was March 20, 2002 when they said this. They also claim they hadn't reported anything to the credit bureaus since Dec 2000! BULL-loney!
I got my CRs and on April 22, 2002 I got a few false negatives taken off my CSC report BUT under the Direct Loans it says 'this creditor has verified to CSC that the current status is being reported correctly'. They had me down for 90+ days late which like I said is ridiculous.
At that point I checked the USDE website periodically and it kept saying suspended status, etc. I eventually got ALL the late stuff off my CRs. There was NO response to my filing for discharge/disqualifying status. So years ticked by with no word...........
Part 2 continued, the Evil Empire Strikes Back!
Where to begin here? Okay. I had trouble holding a job, quit my only 'real job' in 1998 to take care of my father who had had a heart attack (then cancer, then chemo, then eventually a long, slow death). So once I had eventually pulled myself together and clearing up my credit report, work history, etc. I applied for my 'dream' job with the local cable company. My cousin worked there and told me about the great benefits, etc. So in June 2004 I started the application process. I went through several interviews, tests, etc. They even called my references, talked to friends, etc. I was told the only thing they were waiting on was a call from their HR department to set me up for the drug screening and I was in.
Then I waited.........waited..........waited. I did all the traditional things while waiting; called and thanked them for the opportunity, eventually mailed a thank you card, etc. I FINALLY get a rejection letter (even though I was a shoe-in for the job as they really wanted me) in August 2004 stating they took other candidates. Let me tell you this: they rented a hotel auditorium and put out massive TV/RADIO/Newspaper ads for this 'seminar' and only 11 people showed up to a room that could have held HUNDREDS. Something was rotten and I never knew EXACTLY why they didn't hire me but they wouldn't take my calls, and even my cousin wouldn't tell me why. I think she was ashamed of something they found out but wouldn't tell me. NONE of my medical history has ANY of my service related stuff in it so it wasn't that.
In Sept 2004 I tried to buy a $40 pair of shoes at Dick's Sporting goods and they talked me into putting on their in-store card. I applied, but when two managers came over to talk to me I had a bad feeling. They said I was denied but wouldn't say why; it was very embarrasing in front of my wife, the managers, employees, and other customers. I got a letter from Dick's in the mail stating the reason for denial was a BANKRUPTCY on my CR.
So I immediately ordered up copies of all 3 CRs and one of them (the one Dick's used) had 2 bankruptcies on there by the USDE! Specifically (for all you details buffs) it says "Account included in Bankruptcy; Whose account--individual account" on BOTH line items. NOTE: the earlier account is the original account, the latter account is the one with the 'balance' on it. The closed one (consolidated/refinanced one) says date of last activity 02/1998 with date opened 10/1995 and the 'current' one says date opened 03/1999 and date of last activity 05/2002. BOTH say items as of date reported DEC 2002 so they LIED to me about not reporting this crap AND they were on there for almost TWO YEARS before I found out about it.
I had ASSUMED that my app for discharge had been approved since it had been YEARS not hearing from them. Well, you know what happens when you assume. So I contested this with CSC (aka Equifax) and they DID take them off. Don't poke the bear, don't poke the bear.........
I received a letter Dec 2004 stating that my loan payments are now due again 10 days from the date of the letter! I emailed the USDE and told them what had happened previously.
'Ann' in this letter she claims I was only given a 4-year-Forbearance? BULL!! The dates she gives she is making up to match up with my complaint that the last time I paid on the account was July 7th, 2000. SHE'S JUST TRYING TO FILL IN THE DATES TO MATCH THE HUGE TIME FRAME. This is NOT the first time USDE employees bend the facts nor will it be the last. She also says that 'our records do not indicate that you ever filed bankruptcy. On Dec 12, 2002' was the last time USDE notified the Credit reporting agencies. BULL!!! Then how did the bankruptcy get on there? NONE of the other line items in my report have a bankruptcy--but it doesn't matter as employers/creditors see a red flag!
THIS LOAN WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN DISCHARGED AND THEY LET YEARS OF INTEREST ACCRUE AND THEN SOCK IT TO ME WHEN I GET THEIR BACK-STABBING BANKRUPTCY REMOVED.
The ONLY reason this is back to haunt me is that I disputed the bankruptcy claim with the CRAs. AS SOON AS THE USDE WAS FORCED TO TAKE THE BANKRUPTCY OFF MY REPORT, THEY IMMEDIATELY RE-INSTATED THE LOAN MAKING IT DUE 10 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THE LETTER. Not to mention that they allowed interest to accrue FOR YEARS without so much as a word to me!
So I wrote a letter to the USDE describing the most recent events, from last letter they send in 2001 to the surprise letter of Dec 2004. I got a personal response from someone in Washington DC. I had filed ANOTHER copy of the Disqualifying status, gave the background information, documents, etc. She called up asking for more specific information on my 'condition' and wanted other proof, etc. I sent her another copy of my DD-214, FAA regulations, counselor's notes, etc. She kept changing the terms of her requests like:
What proof do you have of this personality disorder?
Why can't you finish your degree?
Why can't you get a pilot's license?
Where are your doctor's notes outlining your treatment etc?
So I gave her more documents, showing hand-written notes from counselors, MCMI batteries of tests taken, letters from other doctors, Marine Corps Separation codes, etc. I also gave her documents from the FAA showing what tests they deem proper to say someone has a personality disorder SUCH AS the MCMI. I have her ALL the MCMI test results; I took it three times. Not only does it shows the answers, what they mean, etc. but it also shows the diagnoses as personality disorders.
NONE OF THIS MADE ANY DIFFERENCE TO HER. I got a letter on Valentines day from her stating that I was DENIED even though I gave her all the info she asked for!
I called her up (heated and mad which I should have known better). I asked her why had I been denied and what about all the info I sent her that SHE requested. All she did was say that she didn't see what she was looking for (as if SHE is some kind of medical expert). She obviously had been coached by someone because she started asking where the Axis II diagnosis was (that's the ones pertaining to personality disorders). I told her what page to look on (I number EVERY page and packet I send so that any moron could follow what I meant).
She still said she doesn't see it, she needs more proof, etc. I had admitted in the third MCMI that I had tried to commit suicide and that was the main reason I was kicked out of the service. I asked her if she thought I was making it up. She said "you say you tried to kill yourself; where's the proof?". I was SO furious at that point. I started to say 'they don't just kick you out of the service for nothing when they have lots of $$ invested in training' but I couldn't get a word in edge-wise. She waited until every time I was going to say something and she cut me off, interrupting me, talking over top of me, etc. I asked her to STOP talking over me; that SHE had asked me a question and how was I supposed to answer her when SHE keeps talking over me.
She just kept on interrupting, so I said over and over and over again "stop talking over me stop talking over me stop talking over me" and it was like two kids having a shouting match! This woman wouldn't shut up! She eventually did stop talking and I finally got my response in. I'm surprised she even let me talk. After I was done with my response she said "can I talk now?" and I said certainly. I told her that this is how communication works and that no amount of her bullying me was going to silence me.
Where to begin here? Okay. I had trouble holding a job, quit my only 'real job' in 1998 to take care of my father who had had a heart attack (then cancer, then chemo, then eventually a long, slow death). So once I had eventually pulled myself together and clearing up my credit report, work history, etc. I applied for my 'dream' job with the local cable company. My cousin worked there and told me about the great benefits, etc. So in June 2004 I started the application process. I went through several interviews, tests, etc. They even called my references, talked to friends, etc. I was told the only thing they were waiting on was a call from their HR department to set me up for the drug screening and I was in.
Then I waited.........waited..........waited. I did all the traditional things while waiting; called and thanked them for the opportunity, eventually mailed a thank you card, etc. I FINALLY get a rejection letter (even though I was a shoe-in for the job as they really wanted me) in August 2004 stating they took other candidates. Let me tell you this: they rented a hotel auditorium and put out massive TV/RADIO/Newspaper ads for this 'seminar' and only 11 people showed up to a room that could have held HUNDREDS. Something was rotten and I never knew EXACTLY why they didn't hire me but they wouldn't take my calls, and even my cousin wouldn't tell me why. I think she was ashamed of something they found out but wouldn't tell me. NONE of my medical history has ANY of my service related stuff in it so it wasn't that.
In Sept 2004 I tried to buy a $40 pair of shoes at Dick's Sporting goods and they talked me into putting on their in-store card. I applied, but when two managers came over to talk to me I had a bad feeling. They said I was denied but wouldn't say why; it was very embarrasing in front of my wife, the managers, employees, and other customers. I got a letter from Dick's in the mail stating the reason for denial was a BANKRUPTCY on my CR.
So I immediately ordered up copies of all 3 CRs and one of them (the one Dick's used) had 2 bankruptcies on there by the USDE! Specifically (for all you details buffs) it says "Account included in Bankruptcy; Whose account--individual account" on BOTH line items. NOTE: the earlier account is the original account, the latter account is the one with the 'balance' on it. The closed one (consolidated/refinanced one) says date of last activity 02/1998 with date opened 10/1995 and the 'current' one says date opened 03/1999 and date of last activity 05/2002. BOTH say items as of date reported DEC 2002 so they LIED to me about not reporting this crap AND they were on there for almost TWO YEARS before I found out about it.
I had ASSUMED that my app for discharge had been approved since it had been YEARS not hearing from them. Well, you know what happens when you assume. So I contested this with CSC (aka Equifax) and they DID take them off. Don't poke the bear, don't poke the bear.........
I received a letter Dec 2004 stating that my loan payments are now due again 10 days from the date of the letter! I emailed the USDE and told them what had happened previously.
'Ann' in this letter she claims I was only given a 4-year-Forbearance? BULL!! The dates she gives she is making up to match up with my complaint that the last time I paid on the account was July 7th, 2000. SHE'S JUST TRYING TO FILL IN THE DATES TO MATCH THE HUGE TIME FRAME. This is NOT the first time USDE employees bend the facts nor will it be the last. She also says that 'our records do not indicate that you ever filed bankruptcy. On Dec 12, 2002' was the last time USDE notified the Credit reporting agencies. BULL!!! Then how did the bankruptcy get on there? NONE of the other line items in my report have a bankruptcy--but it doesn't matter as employers/creditors see a red flag!
THIS LOAN WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN DISCHARGED AND THEY LET YEARS OF INTEREST ACCRUE AND THEN SOCK IT TO ME WHEN I GET THEIR BACK-STABBING BANKRUPTCY REMOVED.
The ONLY reason this is back to haunt me is that I disputed the bankruptcy claim with the CRAs. AS SOON AS THE USDE WAS FORCED TO TAKE THE BANKRUPTCY OFF MY REPORT, THEY IMMEDIATELY RE-INSTATED THE LOAN MAKING IT DUE 10 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THE LETTER. Not to mention that they allowed interest to accrue FOR YEARS without so much as a word to me!
So I wrote a letter to the USDE describing the most recent events, from last letter they send in 2001 to the surprise letter of Dec 2004. I got a personal response from someone in Washington DC. I had filed ANOTHER copy of the Disqualifying status, gave the background information, documents, etc. She called up asking for more specific information on my 'condition' and wanted other proof, etc. I sent her another copy of my DD-214, FAA regulations, counselor's notes, etc. She kept changing the terms of her requests like:
What proof do you have of this personality disorder?
Why can't you finish your degree?
Why can't you get a pilot's license?
Where are your doctor's notes outlining your treatment etc?
So I gave her more documents, showing hand-written notes from counselors, MCMI batteries of tests taken, letters from other doctors, Marine Corps Separation codes, etc. I also gave her documents from the FAA showing what tests they deem proper to say someone has a personality disorder SUCH AS the MCMI. I have her ALL the MCMI test results; I took it three times. Not only does it shows the answers, what they mean, etc. but it also shows the diagnoses as personality disorders.
NONE OF THIS MADE ANY DIFFERENCE TO HER. I got a letter on Valentines day from her stating that I was DENIED even though I gave her all the info she asked for!
I called her up (heated and mad which I should have known better). I asked her why had I been denied and what about all the info I sent her that SHE requested. All she did was say that she didn't see what she was looking for (as if SHE is some kind of medical expert). She obviously had been coached by someone because she started asking where the Axis II diagnosis was (that's the ones pertaining to personality disorders). I told her what page to look on (I number EVERY page and packet I send so that any moron could follow what I meant).
She still said she doesn't see it, she needs more proof, etc. I had admitted in the third MCMI that I had tried to commit suicide and that was the main reason I was kicked out of the service. I asked her if she thought I was making it up. She said "you say you tried to kill yourself; where's the proof?". I was SO furious at that point. I started to say 'they don't just kick you out of the service for nothing when they have lots of $$ invested in training' but I couldn't get a word in edge-wise. She waited until every time I was going to say something and she cut me off, interrupting me, talking over top of me, etc. I asked her to STOP talking over me; that SHE had asked me a question and how was I supposed to answer her when SHE keeps talking over me.
She just kept on interrupting, so I said over and over and over again "stop talking over me stop talking over me stop talking over me" and it was like two kids having a shouting match! This woman wouldn't shut up! She eventually did stop talking and I finally got my response in. I'm surprised she even let me talk. After I was done with my response she said "can I talk now?" and I said certainly. I told her that this is how communication works and that no amount of her bullying me was going to silence me.
Eventually the madness passed and I asked her to tell me EXACLTY what was required to get the loan discharged under these terms. I told her that I DON"T have my Service Record book with my medical records but that I would file to get them. She wants something written from the FAA about not getting my medical certification; she also wants more notes from doctors about my 'condition' even though I've given her everything I have (still waiting on my service records). She says if I can do all that (keep in mind I"ve sent her several packets of records, information, etc. Probably 100s of pages overall). She says if I do that then MAYBE I'll have something. Maybe.
In the meantime I re-ran my credit reports since my state became included in the free annual credit reports as of march 1 2005. GUESS WHAT?! The USDE put 2 bankruptcies on my EXPERIAN report as of Dec 2004. That was done the same time I re-filed the paperwork for my loan discharge application. Did they say they were going to do this? NO! Did this witch on the phone tell me they did this? NO!
I think it is just another tool the USDE uses to try to force their will on others and it simply isn't fair. Most of my life I have not had a decent job (mostly restaurant work) nor have I had insurance. The few times that I HAVE had insurance I tried to get my problems sorted out. BUT when the USDE puts false, negative information on your CR and you can't get a job then it seems pretty hopeless. When I had insurance, back in 1998 I had called the 'hotline' to talk to a phone counselor as I was having those suicidal thoughts again. They hooked me up with a local group of 'doctors' and I had 7 sessions authorized. The first one or two were dismal; the counselor kept calling me the wrong name and her eyes glazed over after 15 minutes. She eventually suggested I be put on a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor but had to get authorization through the main 'doctor' who is the only one who could prescribe such things. He disagreed and said to hold off for 3 months of evaluations. The sessions kind of dwindled with no real progress made.
This USDE 'lady' says she wants to see something showing results, course of action, etc. I KEEP TELLING HER THERE IS NO COURSE OF ACTION THAT HAS WORKED, NO MEDS ACTUALLY PRESCRIBED, OR NO OTHER PAPERWORK SHOWING THAT I AM ALL 'BETTER'. Besides alluding that I made up my suicide attempt, she says that I could pass my flight physical and complete my training. BULL! NO matter what I say she keeps changing the subject, tries to distract me with peripheral crap. When I bring up the points of what the USDE has done to my credit and how it affects my ability to get a job, she shrugs it off and changes the subject.
Recently Bank One (now CHASE--total criminals) raised the rates of a card I was only an authorized user on. They claim they sent out a letter in November 2004 giving us a chance to opt-out at our current 9.9% OR if I was a dumb jack-ass I would ignore their supposed letter and accept 29% BULL! I never got a letter about opting out NOR did I ever miss a payment, go late, go over, etc. I got a surprise from THEM in Feb showing I went from 9.9% to 29% in the blink of an eye, that my new payment was $365 a month of which $363 went to interest (on a $14,000 balance). When we asked them why they said it was permissible use to look at our credit (even though we had done nothing wrong) and when they saw the FALSE bankruptcy the USDE had put on Experian they jacked us! We talked to 3 different bank one reps and NONE of them could give us the exact date of this supposed letter, what it said, etc. They EVENTUALLY sent us out a letter with a January date showing why the rate was going up, and they sent out a template of the supposed opt-out offer. That was a scam too; the template they sent was something sent off to the printer showing where it was to be cut, how it was to be folded etc. They couldn't come up with anything REAL showing they had sent it out previously.
Anyway, the USDE person didn't care about this either. I WAS able to 'opt-out' in retrospect to BAnkOne at the 9.9%, closed the account, but they said there was nothing that could be done with the 2 months of OUTRAGEOUS interest. I am still waiting for my Service Record Book packet but they said it could be up to 25 weeks! That was a couple months ago. I am going tomorrow afternoon to spend more $$ to re-take the flight physical again! I am just going to show him the medical records I have in hand and hope it's enough. As soon as I get that I'm going to send it right out so 'she' gets it ASAP. In that letter I'm going to re-iterate my case, show them that I've proven I can't get employment based on the requirements for that job, and that the university had this information since day one. I"ve proven all these things before; she really doesn't deny anything now except she wants to see the Navy Doctor's notes I was seeing while in the service AND she wants something more substantial from the FAA. In the meantime my first 'new' payment is due April 7, 2005. I don't see how in the hell they can let the interest accrue over 4+ years, lead me to believe my loan would be discharged, put FALSE bankruptcies and other FALSE negative information on my CRs, etc.
I think they believe they are above the law and that they can to whatever they want to people regardless of state and federal statues to the contrary.
ANY ADVICE/COMMENTS/QUESTIONS I'd be glad to hear from you. BTW I have kept ALL my correspondence with these savages and I've told them I have it all. I am considering legal action but have no basis for legal precedence. I still don't know if Experian is going to remove the 2 false BRs (I have NEVER filed BR in my life). I also feel that 'she' was taunting me when accusing me of making up my suicide attempt. It is NOT an easy thing for me to talk about, but if talking about it helps me deal with it then so be it. Maybe she was hoping she could make me 'prove' my point by egging me into trying it again. I guess that way she'd be done with me one way or the other. I am probably reading into things but I AM frustrated with this whole thing. You've heard 99% of it; I'm sure I left something out but one small detail could turn this whole thing for me. LMK
In the meantime I re-ran my credit reports since my state became included in the free annual credit reports as of march 1 2005. GUESS WHAT?! The USDE put 2 bankruptcies on my EXPERIAN report as of Dec 2004. That was done the same time I re-filed the paperwork for my loan discharge application. Did they say they were going to do this? NO! Did this witch on the phone tell me they did this? NO!
I think it is just another tool the USDE uses to try to force their will on others and it simply isn't fair. Most of my life I have not had a decent job (mostly restaurant work) nor have I had insurance. The few times that I HAVE had insurance I tried to get my problems sorted out. BUT when the USDE puts false, negative information on your CR and you can't get a job then it seems pretty hopeless. When I had insurance, back in 1998 I had called the 'hotline' to talk to a phone counselor as I was having those suicidal thoughts again. They hooked me up with a local group of 'doctors' and I had 7 sessions authorized. The first one or two were dismal; the counselor kept calling me the wrong name and her eyes glazed over after 15 minutes. She eventually suggested I be put on a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor but had to get authorization through the main 'doctor' who is the only one who could prescribe such things. He disagreed and said to hold off for 3 months of evaluations. The sessions kind of dwindled with no real progress made.
This USDE 'lady' says she wants to see something showing results, course of action, etc. I KEEP TELLING HER THERE IS NO COURSE OF ACTION THAT HAS WORKED, NO MEDS ACTUALLY PRESCRIBED, OR NO OTHER PAPERWORK SHOWING THAT I AM ALL 'BETTER'. Besides alluding that I made up my suicide attempt, she says that I could pass my flight physical and complete my training. BULL! NO matter what I say she keeps changing the subject, tries to distract me with peripheral crap. When I bring up the points of what the USDE has done to my credit and how it affects my ability to get a job, she shrugs it off and changes the subject.
Recently Bank One (now CHASE--total criminals) raised the rates of a card I was only an authorized user on. They claim they sent out a letter in November 2004 giving us a chance to opt-out at our current 9.9% OR if I was a dumb jack-ass I would ignore their supposed letter and accept 29% BULL! I never got a letter about opting out NOR did I ever miss a payment, go late, go over, etc. I got a surprise from THEM in Feb showing I went from 9.9% to 29% in the blink of an eye, that my new payment was $365 a month of which $363 went to interest (on a $14,000 balance). When we asked them why they said it was permissible use to look at our credit (even though we had done nothing wrong) and when they saw the FALSE bankruptcy the USDE had put on Experian they jacked us! We talked to 3 different bank one reps and NONE of them could give us the exact date of this supposed letter, what it said, etc. They EVENTUALLY sent us out a letter with a January date showing why the rate was going up, and they sent out a template of the supposed opt-out offer. That was a scam too; the template they sent was something sent off to the printer showing where it was to be cut, how it was to be folded etc. They couldn't come up with anything REAL showing they had sent it out previously.Anyway, the USDE person didn't care about this either. I WAS able to 'opt-out' in retrospect to BAnkOne at the 9.9%, closed the account, but they said there was nothing that could be done with the 2 months of OUTRAGEOUS interest. I am still waiting for my Service Record Book packet but they said it could be up to 25 weeks! That was a couple months ago. I am going tomorrow afternoon to spend more $$ to re-take the flight physical again! I am just going to show him the medical records I have in hand and hope it's enough. As soon as I get that I'm going to send it right out so 'she' gets it ASAP. In that letter I'm going to re-iterate my case, show them that I've proven I can't get employment based on the requirements for that job, and that the university had this information since day one. I"ve proven all these things before; she really doesn't deny anything now except she wants to see the Navy Doctor's notes I was seeing while in the service AND she wants something more substantial from the FAA. In the meantime my first 'new' payment is due April 7, 2005. I don't see how in the hell they can let the interest accrue over 4+ years, lead me to believe my loan would be discharged, put FALSE bankruptcies and other FALSE negative information on my CRs, etc.
I think they believe they are above the law and that they can to whatever they want to people regardless of state and federal statues to the contrary.
ANY ADVICE/COMMENTS/QUESTIONS I'd be glad to hear from you. BTW I have kept ALL my correspondence with these savages and I've told them I have it all. I am considering legal action but have no basis for legal precedence. I still don't know if Experian is going to remove the 2 false BRs (I have NEVER filed BR in my life). I also feel that 'she' was taunting me when accusing me of making up my suicide attempt. It is NOT an easy thing for me to talk about, but if talking about it helps me deal with it then so be it. Maybe she was hoping she could make me 'prove' my point by egging me into trying it again. I guess that way she'd be done with me one way or the other. I am probably reading into things but I AM frustrated with this whole thing. You've heard 99% of it; I'm sure I left something out but one small detail could turn this whole thing for me. LMK
I forgot to mention a couple other things. This woman I've been dealing with at the USDE also said she's never seen any transcripts. The only 'transcripts' I have are from the university and each one says 'federal law prohibits transmittal to a third party.' I would think she has her own access to these transcripts but I guess not. Would it be illegal for me to send her copies of these? They are all that I have.
I also explained to her that since I started school in 1989 that most of my credits are now stale-dated, ie more than 10 years old. The last year I went was the 1996 year. Since the Aeronautics department dissolved there is no way to get the classes I need to finish from the university anyway, much less get the pilot's license.
She keeps claiming there is something else I can do with this coursework. I can't start over! As I said most of my credits are over 10 years old.
I even told her I just want the remainder of the loan cancelled. I know that if you get a loan discharged this way, it's as if they shouldn't have given you the loan in the first place. Supposedly they are supposed to give you a refund on the amount you've paid plus remove any negative info from your CR. I told her I don't want the refund; to just do the right thing and discharge the loan. I've given her hundreds of pages of documentation of all of this and still she doesn't budge. I told her I wouldn't have even needed a school loan if my GI Bill benefits had been paid. I paid my GI Bill obligation but the service denied my claim saying I didn't have enough active duty service to qualify AND the money I paid into it is non-refundable. I asked her advice on this and she ignored that too (besides the false negative info on my CRs).
Anyway, like I said no matter what information she asks for I give it. Instead of discharging the loan she keeps asking for this and that even though what the USDE sets for in its OWN rules has been satisfied. She shouldn't have arbitrarily denied my request and is now making me scramble to keep coming up with new info. She should have held off 'deciding' until after everything she asked for was sent in. That's her way: keep asking for more documentation, deny that it helps anyway, change the subject when I bring up a valid point that the USDE should answer for, keep putting false negative info on my CR, etc etc.
It makes me SICK!
I also explained to her that since I started school in 1989 that most of my credits are now stale-dated, ie more than 10 years old. The last year I went was the 1996 year. Since the Aeronautics department dissolved there is no way to get the classes I need to finish from the university anyway, much less get the pilot's license.
She keeps claiming there is something else I can do with this coursework. I can't start over! As I said most of my credits are over 10 years old.
I even told her I just want the remainder of the loan cancelled. I know that if you get a loan discharged this way, it's as if they shouldn't have given you the loan in the first place. Supposedly they are supposed to give you a refund on the amount you've paid plus remove any negative info from your CR. I told her I don't want the refund; to just do the right thing and discharge the loan. I've given her hundreds of pages of documentation of all of this and still she doesn't budge. I told her I wouldn't have even needed a school loan if my GI Bill benefits had been paid. I paid my GI Bill obligation but the service denied my claim saying I didn't have enough active duty service to qualify AND the money I paid into it is non-refundable. I asked her advice on this and she ignored that too (besides the false negative info on my CRs).
Anyway, like I said no matter what information she asks for I give it. Instead of discharging the loan she keeps asking for this and that even though what the USDE sets for in its OWN rules has been satisfied. She shouldn't have arbitrarily denied my request and is now making me scramble to keep coming up with new info. She should have held off 'deciding' until after everything she asked for was sent in. That's her way: keep asking for more documentation, deny that it helps anyway, change the subject when I bring up a valid point that the USDE should answer for, keep putting false negative info on my CR, etc etc.
It makes me SICK!
Can you summarize the student loan part of this story into a coupla paragraphs? Sorry I got lost reading this... 
OK, I'm going to sum this up to see if people can help you. Tell me if I miss anything CRUCIAL:
You went to school for a "major" if you will, that you are actually unable to complete due to your disorder. They knowingly gave you a loan to cover school. You ended up dropping out, and the department was cancelled. Everytime you've filed to get the loan discharged, they ignore you and put bad marks on your credit reports. They also deny your discharge even though you meet the criteria. You've supplied 100s of pages of paperwork that they said they needed, yet still say they are not being given the necessary paperwork to discharge the loan.
Is that it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for help--I would STOP calling and do everything CMRRR, and dispute the BK's they keep adding (both with the CRA's and the USDE), and rack up violations on that.
Also, consider contacting a lawyer. If you can go to your local library (I know mine has flyers up on announcement boards) and look for the free counsel for low income families/individuals. Or see if you can take your case to a local law department and see if they can help you. Some do this (I know UT Law School actually got a murder conviction--death penalty--overturned..so it's worth a shot).
You need legal advice in dealing with the USDE and everything they've done (no contact for years, letting interest rack up, knowingly falsely reporting BK's--that sounds weird huh?--and everything else they've done)
Maybe with all the FDCPA and FCRA violations that they'll rack up (at least with the attitude they have now) and everything else (I can't imagine what they have been doing is legal, but stranger things have happened), you could (if brought to this point) get a lot of money through a lawsuit/settlement, as well as getting the loan discharged. But also make sure if a settlement is reached to get in writing that they will not report to any CRA or sell to any CA a debt under your name. Also, if you get to resubmit, and they don't contact you within 30 days or so--write them. Don't let them just cut off contact with you for years again...That could just keep the cycle going.
I hope this helps, you might want to get advice from more seasoned CB'ers on the credit forum when dealing with disputing the CRA's and OC about this, as I do not know all the ins and outs of this yet.
Good Luck!
You went to school for a "major" if you will, that you are actually unable to complete due to your disorder. They knowingly gave you a loan to cover school. You ended up dropping out, and the department was cancelled. Everytime you've filed to get the loan discharged, they ignore you and put bad marks on your credit reports. They also deny your discharge even though you meet the criteria. You've supplied 100s of pages of paperwork that they said they needed, yet still say they are not being given the necessary paperwork to discharge the loan.
Is that it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for help--I would STOP calling and do everything CMRRR, and dispute the BK's they keep adding (both with the CRA's and the USDE), and rack up violations on that.
Also, consider contacting a lawyer. If you can go to your local library (I know mine has flyers up on announcement boards) and look for the free counsel for low income families/individuals. Or see if you can take your case to a local law department and see if they can help you. Some do this (I know UT Law School actually got a murder conviction--death penalty--overturned..so it's worth a shot).
You need legal advice in dealing with the USDE and everything they've done (no contact for years, letting interest rack up, knowingly falsely reporting BK's--that sounds weird huh?--and everything else they've done)
Maybe with all the FDCPA and FCRA violations that they'll rack up (at least with the attitude they have now) and everything else (I can't imagine what they have been doing is legal, but stranger things have happened), you could (if brought to this point) get a lot of money through a lawsuit/settlement, as well as getting the loan discharged. But also make sure if a settlement is reached to get in writing that they will not report to any CRA or sell to any CA a debt under your name. Also, if you get to resubmit, and they don't contact you within 30 days or so--write them. Don't let them just cut off contact with you for years again...That could just keep the cycle going.
I hope this helps, you might want to get advice from more seasoned CB'ers on the credit forum when dealing with disputing the CRA's and OC about this, as I do not know all the ins and outs of this yet.
Good Luck!
QUOTE(angeleyeskkhr @ Apr 8 2005, 11:58 PM)
OK, I'm going to sum this up to see if people can help you. Tell me if I miss anything CRUCIAL:
You went to school for a "major" if you will, that you are actually unable to complete due to your disorder. They knowingly gave you a loan to cover school. You ended up dropping out, and the department was cancelled. Everytime you've filed to get the loan discharged, they ignore you and put bad marks on your credit reports. They also deny your discharge even though you meet the criteria. You've supplied 100s of pages of paperwork that they said they needed, yet still say they are not being given the necessary paperwork to discharge the loan.
Is that it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for help--I would STOP calling and do everything CMRRR, and dispute the BK's they keep adding (both with the CRA's and the USDE), and rack up violations on that.
Also, consider contacting a lawyer. If you can go to your local library (I know mine has flyers up on announcement boards) and look for the free counsel for low income families/individuals. Or see if you can take your case to a local law department and see if they can help you. Some do this (I know UT Law School actually got a murder conviction--death penalty--overturned..so it's worth a shot).
You need legal advice in dealing with the USDE and everything they've done (no contact for years, letting interest rack up, knowingly falsely reporting BK's--that sounds weird huh?--and everything else they've done)
Maybe with all the FDCPA and FCRA violations that they'll rack up (at least with the attitude they have now) and everything else (I can't imagine what they have been doing is legal, but stranger things have happened), you could (if brought to this point) get a lot of money through a lawsuit/settlement, as well as getting the loan discharged. But also make sure if a settlement is reached to get in writing that they will not report to any CRA or sell to any CA a debt under your name. Also, if you get to resubmit, and they don't contact you within 30 days or so--write them. Don't let them just cut off contact with you for years again...That could just keep the cycle going.
I hope this helps, you might want to get advice from more seasoned CB'ers on the credit forum when dealing with disputing the CRA's and OC about this, as I do not know all the ins and outs of this yet.
Good Luck!
You went to school for a "major" if you will, that you are actually unable to complete due to your disorder. They knowingly gave you a loan to cover school. You ended up dropping out, and the department was cancelled. Everytime you've filed to get the loan discharged, they ignore you and put bad marks on your credit reports. They also deny your discharge even though you meet the criteria. You've supplied 100s of pages of paperwork that they said they needed, yet still say they are not being given the necessary paperwork to discharge the loan.
Is that it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for help--I would STOP calling and do everything CMRRR, and dispute the BK's they keep adding (both with the CRA's and the USDE), and rack up violations on that.
Also, consider contacting a lawyer. If you can go to your local library (I know mine has flyers up on announcement boards) and look for the free counsel for low income families/individuals. Or see if you can take your case to a local law department and see if they can help you. Some do this (I know UT Law School actually got a murder conviction--death penalty--overturned..so it's worth a shot).
You need legal advice in dealing with the USDE and everything they've done (no contact for years, letting interest rack up, knowingly falsely reporting BK's--that sounds weird huh?--and everything else they've done)
Maybe with all the FDCPA and FCRA violations that they'll rack up (at least with the attitude they have now) and everything else (I can't imagine what they have been doing is legal, but stranger things have happened), you could (if brought to this point) get a lot of money through a lawsuit/settlement, as well as getting the loan discharged. But also make sure if a settlement is reached to get in writing that they will not report to any CRA or sell to any CA a debt under your name. Also, if you get to resubmit, and they don't contact you within 30 days or so--write them. Don't let them just cut off contact with you for years again...That could just keep the cycle going.
I hope this helps, you might want to get advice from more seasoned CB'ers on the credit forum when dealing with disputing the CRA's and OC about this, as I do not know all the ins and outs of this yet.
Good Luck!
Actually, unfortunately, the USDOE is not subject to the FDCPA because they are the OC and not a CA. Your options may also be a little limited in terms of FCRA violations as well -- a lot of times the government exempts itself from these sorts of things. I'm not sure about that for that particular law, though. Unfortunately again, SLs can be very different than other debts -- sometimes this is a good thing, but obviously not in your case.
Many law schools do have legal clinics that are aimed at lower-income individuals and families. They usually have income guidelines as to who is eligible. They also usually have some sort of range of cases that they take. Some are oriented toward criminal law, and many are oriented toward civil law cases, although often that means housing and family law issues. If nothing else, they should have ideas of other pro bono (i.e., low-cost/free) lawyers and programs that may be offered in your area. Check your phone book -- many communities also have a "pro bono" clinic or association in the area.
Good luck!
I have read this several times and the only issue I see for you is the BK listed on your CBR.
You do not qualify for Closed School Discharge since you were not in attendance when the school/program closed
© Borrower qualification for discharge. In order to qualify for discharge of a loan under this section, a borrower shall submit to the Secretary a written request and sworn statement, and the factual assertions in the statement must be true. The statement need not be notarized but must be made by the borrower under penalty of perjury. In the statement, the borrower shall--
(ii) Did not complete the program of study at that school because the school closed while the student was enrolled, or the student withdrew from the school not more than 90 days before the school closed
I do not believe you qualify for False Certification either.
Currently, the false certification discharge regulations requires a borrower first to demonstrate that the school for which the loan was intended certified his or her eligibility to borrow based on his or her ability-to-benefit from the program offered but did not comply with the Higher Education Act requirements in making that determination.
The key for for False certification is that the SCHOOL falsely certified you. From what I read, you passed the 1st Class Medical Certificate required to enter the program right?? I looked up information at the Univeristy of North Dakota aerospace website. It says "All Students planning to begin flight training at UND are required to hold a current Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) medical certificate. Aviation medical examiners (AME’s) are designated by the FAA to issue these certificates, following completion of an application and a physical examination. >> If you got this certificate, the school did not falsely certify you. The Doctor issuing your medical certificate, was he made aware of your medical condition?? Did you disclose to him this disability?? I believe that this is going to be the kicker....you went to the school with knowledge of a disablility and did not disclose it.
To use your truck driver anology, False Certification by a school would be a school enrolling a blind man in a truck driving program...that is would be Falsely Certifing the students ability to benefit. You also can claim false cerfication if you finish a program and cannot get a job.
You do not qualify for Closed School Discharge since you were not in attendance when the school/program closed
© Borrower qualification for discharge. In order to qualify for discharge of a loan under this section, a borrower shall submit to the Secretary a written request and sworn statement, and the factual assertions in the statement must be true. The statement need not be notarized but must be made by the borrower under penalty of perjury. In the statement, the borrower shall--
(ii) Did not complete the program of study at that school because the school closed while the student was enrolled, or the student withdrew from the school not more than 90 days before the school closed
I do not believe you qualify for False Certification either.
Currently, the false certification discharge regulations requires a borrower first to demonstrate that the school for which the loan was intended certified his or her eligibility to borrow based on his or her ability-to-benefit from the program offered but did not comply with the Higher Education Act requirements in making that determination.
The key for for False certification is that the SCHOOL falsely certified you. From what I read, you passed the 1st Class Medical Certificate required to enter the program right?? I looked up information at the Univeristy of North Dakota aerospace website. It says "All Students planning to begin flight training at UND are required to hold a current Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) medical certificate. Aviation medical examiners (AME’s) are designated by the FAA to issue these certificates, following completion of an application and a physical examination. >> If you got this certificate, the school did not falsely certify you. The Doctor issuing your medical certificate, was he made aware of your medical condition?? Did you disclose to him this disability?? I believe that this is going to be the kicker....you went to the school with knowledge of a disablility and did not disclose it.
To use your truck driver anology, False Certification by a school would be a school enrolling a blind man in a truck driving program...that is would be Falsely Certifing the students ability to benefit. You also can claim false cerfication if you finish a program and cannot get a job.
QUOTE
Actually, unfortunately, the USDOE is not subject to the FDCPA because they are the OC and not a CA. Your options may also be a little limited in terms of FCRA violations as well -- a lot of times the government exempts itself from these sorts of things. I'm not sure about that for that particular law, though. Unfortunately again, SLs can be very different than other debts -- sometimes this is a good thing, but obviously not in your case.
ziggypop--thanks I didn't know this. I was *mainly* thinking in terms of declaring it a BK, but didn't realize this. BTW--how would you get out of charge-offs using this methodology, I *thought* I'd heard of this--but maybe not?
Like I said, I'm still new to this and don't know all the ins and outs
I get confused easily lately (no sleep, or hardly any)
QUOTE(angeleyeskkhr @ Apr 9 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE
Actually, unfortunately, the USDOE is not subject to the FDCPA because they are the OC and not a CA. Your options may also be a little limited in terms of FCRA violations as well -- a lot of times the government exempts itself from these sorts of things. I'm not sure about that for that particular law, though. Unfortunately again, SLs can be very different than other debts -- sometimes this is a good thing, but obviously not in your case.
ziggypop--thanks I didn't know this. I was *mainly* thinking in terms of declaring it a BK, but didn't realize this. BTW--how would you get out of charge-offs using this methodology, I *thought* I'd heard of this--but maybe not?
Like I said, I'm still new to this and don't know all the ins and outs
I get confused easily lately (no sleep, or hardly any)I know the feeling -- I've been here a little while and still am basically just guessing my way around 1/2 of it all!!
I'm not really sure about the charge-off question. Do you mean how to get them off of your report? SOME OCs will pull the account back from a CA if you contact them and try to settle with them in exchange for them taking it back from the CA. The USDOE is not one of those, though. They won't even talk to you at all if your loan is with a CA. For example, even though all of my statements and correspondence were from the USDOE while I was in rehab, the contact information and all of that was for the CA -- there was NO contact information for the USDOE included at all.
Sorry if I'm not understanding your question (I'm on the same line as you with the whole "no sleep" thing, so my powers of comprehension are a little low right now!!). Let me know if I'm completely off track!!
QUOTE
ziggypop Posted Today, 08:57 PM
QUOTE(angeleyeskkhr @ Apr 9 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE
Actually, unfortunately, the USDOE is not subject to the FDCPA because they are the OC and not a CA. Your options may also be a little limited in terms of FCRA violations as well -- a lot of times the government exempts itself from these sorts of things. I'm not sure about that for that particular law, though. Unfortunately again, SLs can be very different than other debts -- sometimes this is a good thing, but obviously not in your case.
ziggypop--thanks I didn't know this. I was *mainly* thinking in terms of declaring it a BK, but didn't realize this. BTW--how would you get out of charge-offs using this methodology, I *thought* I'd heard of this--but maybe not?
Like I said, I'm still new to this and don't know all the ins and outs I get confused easily lately (no sleep, or hardly any)
I know the feeling -- I've been here a little while and still am basically just guessing my way around 1/2 of it all!!
I'm not really sure about the charge-off question. Do you mean how to get them off of your report? SOME OCs will pull the account back from a CA if you contact them and try to settle with them in exchange for them taking it back from the CA. The USDOE is not one of those, though. They won't even talk to you at all if your loan is with a CA. For example, even though all of my statements and correspondence were from the USDOE while I was in rehab, the contact information and all of that was for the CA -- there was NO contact information for the USDOE included at all.
Sorry if I'm not understanding your question (I'm on the same line as you with the whole "no sleep" thing, so my powers of comprehension are a little low right now!!). Let me know if I'm completely off track!!
QUOTE(angeleyeskkhr @ Apr 9 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE
Actually, unfortunately, the USDOE is not subject to the FDCPA because they are the OC and not a CA. Your options may also be a little limited in terms of FCRA violations as well -- a lot of times the government exempts itself from these sorts of things. I'm not sure about that for that particular law, though. Unfortunately again, SLs can be very different than other debts -- sometimes this is a good thing, but obviously not in your case.
ziggypop--thanks I didn't know this. I was *mainly* thinking in terms of declaring it a BK, but didn't realize this. BTW--how would you get out of charge-offs using this methodology, I *thought* I'd heard of this--but maybe not?
Like I said, I'm still new to this and don't know all the ins and outs I get confused easily lately (no sleep, or hardly any)
I know the feeling -- I've been here a little while and still am basically just guessing my way around 1/2 of it all!!
I'm not really sure about the charge-off question. Do you mean how to get them off of your report? SOME OCs will pull the account back from a CA if you contact them and try to settle with them in exchange for them taking it back from the CA. The USDOE is not one of those, though. They won't even talk to you at all if your loan is with a CA. For example, even though all of my statements and correspondence were from the USDOE while I was in rehab, the contact information and all of that was for the CA -- there was NO contact information for the USDOE included at all.
Sorry if I'm not understanding your question (I'm on the same line as you with the whole "no sleep" thing, so my powers of comprehension are a little low right now!!). Let me know if I'm completely off track!!
Oh, I didn't have a question, I don't think. I was just saying I thought you'd do the verification and such with the CRA if the SL creditor was reporting the loan as part of a BK settlement or whatever you call it (?).
Sorry if I confused you. I tend to speak in circles sometimes (when I need to be straight to the point), and too concise when I need to explain every single detail (college essay exams).
ziggypop--I just found the ? you were talking about (bad I know).
I was mainly referring to when (as in my fi's case) it does not list that it's in collections--just a charge-off as a bad debt. But that's neither here nor there because I don't want to do anything on it yet as it's still within the SOL and he's never been contacted anyway. (Not to mention he'd taken out a loan to pay one of the "charge-offs").
I was only asking out of curiousity.
SOrry for hijacking the OP thread though...bad Krista..bad, bad Krista!
I was mainly referring to when (as in my fi's case) it does not list that it's in collections--just a charge-off as a bad debt. But that's neither here nor there because I don't want to do anything on it yet as it's still within the SOL and he's never been contacted anyway. (Not to mention he'd taken out a loan to pay one of the "charge-offs").
I was only asking out of curiousity.
SOrry for hijacking the OP thread though...bad Krista..bad, bad Krista!
Hello and thanks to all who have read this and/or replied.
Sorry I tended to ramble throughout my initial dissertation. Boiled down it comes to this:
I have shown the USDE rep I'm working with the copy of my DD-214 (discharge papers) that shows stamped/received in by the University. It shows the 'personality disorder' on it. I don't think it's a requirement that the University knew about the disorder, just that I had it at the time the loan(s) were given to me. Even so, I did show that the school had it in writing.
The program I was under had a 4-year degree tied to flight training. The ground classes were at the school (needed to pass the FAA test to get 'temps' like in getting a driver's license). They also had simulator training at the school as well as weather, etc. The actually flying took place at the local airport which had a deal with the school. This USDE lady is still not sure I was taking up pilot training and says I can do something else. I told her I WAS taking up pilot training and that's why I went to school. Until you read an FAA manual of FARs you won't see how comprehensively boring they are. I didn't realize I was off-limits to fly until I was almost done with the whole program.
I DID pass my first flight physical because I failed to disclose the personality disorder. That enabled me to fly as a student for 2 years while still going to school, work, etc. It wasn't until after I started having trouble at work, home, then eventually school when everything started to unravel for me. I failed the second flight physical in 1997 because I was 'unbalanced'; I went back down to re-take the flight physical a couple weeks ago and came clean with my 'history' and I failed it again. This time I expect a letter from the FAA showing that I cannot pass and until certain things are corrected will never pass.
Sorry I tended to ramble throughout my initial dissertation. Boiled down it comes to this:
I have shown the USDE rep I'm working with the copy of my DD-214 (discharge papers) that shows stamped/received in by the University. It shows the 'personality disorder' on it. I don't think it's a requirement that the University knew about the disorder, just that I had it at the time the loan(s) were given to me. Even so, I did show that the school had it in writing.
The program I was under had a 4-year degree tied to flight training. The ground classes were at the school (needed to pass the FAA test to get 'temps' like in getting a driver's license). They also had simulator training at the school as well as weather, etc. The actually flying took place at the local airport which had a deal with the school. This USDE lady is still not sure I was taking up pilot training and says I can do something else. I told her I WAS taking up pilot training and that's why I went to school. Until you read an FAA manual of FARs you won't see how comprehensively boring they are. I didn't realize I was off-limits to fly until I was almost done with the whole program.
I DID pass my first flight physical because I failed to disclose the personality disorder. That enabled me to fly as a student for 2 years while still going to school, work, etc. It wasn't until after I started having trouble at work, home, then eventually school when everything started to unravel for me. I failed the second flight physical in 1997 because I was 'unbalanced'; I went back down to re-take the flight physical a couple weeks ago and came clean with my 'history' and I failed it again. This time I expect a letter from the FAA showing that I cannot pass and until certain things are corrected will never pass.
I don't know exactly when the Aero program 'closed down' but I guess I could find out. I am pretty sure I wasn't 'enrolled' at the school when it did which someone suggested is not a reason for discharge due to school closure. Seeing as how most of my credits are 10+ years old now I don't see how the USDE thinks I can actually finish the degree, much less the flight training I can't do.
Also as part of the process to get the loan discharged for disqualifying status, I re-read the requirements. First off here's some info directly from their form:
"To qualify for a loan discharge based on false certification due to a disqualifying status, you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) must have been unable – at the time the school certified or originated your loan – to meet the legal requirements for employment in your state of residence (or, for PLUS borrowers, in the student’s state of residence) in the occupation for which the program of study was intended because of age, a physical or mental condition, criminal record, or other reason. Indicate your disqualifying status by checking the appropriate box(es) below"
AND
"You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan. Also, provide as much information as possible about the state legal requirements for employment that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) could not meet. Include the title and/or section number of the specific state law or regulation, or attach a copy of the law or regulation. You may obtain this information from the appropriate state agency, such as the consumer protection office or department of labor and employment, from a public library, or from an internet site that contains state laws and regulations."
WELL you can go to lots of internet sites and look up FAR part 67 (one section I remember is 307) to see about Personality disorders as a disqualifying status. Not only does my DD-214 show it in words, but the separation code 6203.3 is for 'convenience of government: personality disorder' which is hard to find a website for but you can if you try.
Also as part of the process to get the loan discharged for disqualifying status, I re-read the requirements. First off here's some info directly from their form:
"To qualify for a loan discharge based on false certification due to a disqualifying status, you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) must have been unable – at the time the school certified or originated your loan – to meet the legal requirements for employment in your state of residence (or, for PLUS borrowers, in the student’s state of residence) in the occupation for which the program of study was intended because of age, a physical or mental condition, criminal record, or other reason. Indicate your disqualifying status by checking the appropriate box(es) below"
AND
"You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan. Also, provide as much information as possible about the state legal requirements for employment that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) could not meet. Include the title and/or section number of the specific state law or regulation, or attach a copy of the law or regulation. You may obtain this information from the appropriate state agency, such as the consumer protection office or department of labor and employment, from a public library, or from an internet site that contains state laws and regulations."
WELL you can go to lots of internet sites and look up FAR part 67 (one section I remember is 307) to see about Personality disorders as a disqualifying status. Not only does my DD-214 show it in words, but the separation code 6203.3 is for 'convenience of government: personality disorder' which is hard to find a website for but you can if you try.
Besides the discharge papers I have given the USDE rep numerous psychiatrist notes, as well as the three separate times I took the MCMI which came to the same conclusions about personality disorder. She (the rep) says that since the MCMI is a self-reporting test that I could be 'making up' these answers. This is taking into account the doctors that administered these tests said I was open and honest in my answers AND this was back in 1996/97 when I still had my medical certificate and written test 'temps'. I was fighting to stay in the Aero program when I was 're-diagnosed' with the personality disorder.
She (the USDE rep) keeps changing the requirements of what it will take to get the loan discharged even though I've given her everything required to do so and more! She won't address the false credit info on my CRs NOR will she address anything else that doesn't suit her. I won't get into another shouting match over the phone. I'm going to wait for today's mail to see if I get the actual, typed letter from the FAA showing AGAIN that I can't pass the medical nor fly again. Once I have this I think I'm going to send in a CONCISE letter to the Obmudsman as well as maybe filing for the false cert/disqualifying status FOR THE THIRD TIME and maybe get somebody else who gives a damn!
She (the USDE rep) keeps changing the requirements of what it will take to get the loan discharged even though I've given her everything required to do so and more! She won't address the false credit info on my CRs NOR will she address anything else that doesn't suit her. I won't get into another shouting match over the phone. I'm going to wait for today's mail to see if I get the actual, typed letter from the FAA showing AGAIN that I can't pass the medical nor fly again. Once I have this I think I'm going to send in a CONCISE letter to the Obmudsman as well as maybe filing for the false cert/disqualifying status FOR THE THIRD TIME and maybe get somebody else who gives a damn!
BTW, She (the USDE rep) says she hadn't even seen any transcripts. She hasn't officially asked me for any but all the copies I have say right on them 'Federal law prohibits transmittal to a third party'. So should I send them to her or is she just trying to goad me into breaking a law?
Also she kept asking for paperwork/doctor's notes showing I had successfully completed counseling/got 'cured' of my condition. If I HAD done that I'd have something to give the FAA to get my flight priveledges restored! I think she's just trying to deny me through circular logic that 'IF I have completed a course of counseling to overcome this personality disorder THEN I am cured and could pass a flight physical'. This is ridiculous of course because I already showed her that I'd been to several 'counseling sessions' besides separate visits to therapists while taking the MCMIs. I even showed her that the FAA uses the MCMI to determine whether or not someone HAS a Personality Disorder.
I think she just keeps jerking me around and has no plans on discharging the loan.
Also she kept asking for paperwork/doctor's notes showing I had successfully completed counseling/got 'cured' of my condition. If I HAD done that I'd have something to give the FAA to get my flight priveledges restored! I think she's just trying to deny me through circular logic that 'IF I have completed a course of counseling to overcome this personality disorder THEN I am cured and could pass a flight physical'. This is ridiculous of course because I already showed her that I'd been to several 'counseling sessions' besides separate visits to therapists while taking the MCMIs. I even showed her that the FAA uses the MCMI to determine whether or not someone HAS a Personality Disorder.
I think she just keeps jerking me around and has no plans on discharging the loan.
One last footnote and I'll get off of here. She (the USDE rep) was basically mocking me when I asked her if she thought I made up my suicide attempt in the service. She said 'you say it happened' which incensed me to no end. Since I can't 'prove' it without accessing my medical records in the service, she's denying my claim that it ever happened!
I have since requested any medical record pertaining to any of this, and/or written notes as to why I got the discharge 6203.3 from the Marine Corps. The response I got said it could take up to 25 weeks! I'm still waiting of course. I read somewhere in the fine print of these USDE forms that (this is from the form)
"I will provide, upon request, testimony, a sworn statement, or other documentation REASONABLY available to me that demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Department or its designee that I meet the qualifications for loan discharge based on false certification (disqualifying status), or that supports any representation that I made on this form or on any accompanying documents."
Do you think not having my FAA records in hand or my Service Record Book in hand and having to wait months for replies from them is not REASONABLY available? I have given PLENTY of other documentation without having to wait for this other paperwork.
She (the USDE rep) also cancelled the temporary forbearance and set the clock ticking again. That makes my loan come to term and payments due as of April 7th which I am NOT going to be paying. I tried to file for an extension while waiting to prove my case EVEN MORE with these records I'm waiting on. The website won't let me file for it; I imagine that's because I used up FOUR YEARS of forbearance because the USDE sat on this for so long. I went ahead and filed for another extension manually by sending in paperwork to the USDE.
What's the chance of getting approved for a 'stay of execution' and what's the chance they're going to start bombing my credit reports AGAIN?
I have since requested any medical record pertaining to any of this, and/or written notes as to why I got the discharge 6203.3 from the Marine Corps. The response I got said it could take up to 25 weeks! I'm still waiting of course. I read somewhere in the fine print of these USDE forms that (this is from the form)
"I will provide, upon request, testimony, a sworn statement, or other documentation REASONABLY available to me that demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Department or its designee that I meet the qualifications for loan discharge based on false certification (disqualifying status), or that supports any representation that I made on this form or on any accompanying documents."
Do you think not having my FAA records in hand or my Service Record Book in hand and having to wait months for replies from them is not REASONABLY available? I have given PLENTY of other documentation without having to wait for this other paperwork.
She (the USDE rep) also cancelled the temporary forbearance and set the clock ticking again. That makes my loan come to term and payments due as of April 7th which I am NOT going to be paying. I tried to file for an extension while waiting to prove my case EVEN MORE with these records I'm waiting on. The website won't let me file for it; I imagine that's because I used up FOUR YEARS of forbearance because the USDE sat on this for so long. I went ahead and filed for another extension manually by sending in paperwork to the USDE.
What's the chance of getting approved for a 'stay of execution' and what's the chance they're going to start bombing my credit reports AGAIN?
The key on the False Certification is
""You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan."
The school did not falsely certfy you based on the information you gave them (or didnt give them). You passed the medical which was FAA based. Based on that they certified that you would be able to benifit. The school and the loans people are NOT fault because you didnt provide them with the correct information. Based on other false certifications I have handled, you are liable for the loans. You withheld vital information that would have disqualified you from the school and the loan.
""You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan."
The school did not falsely certfy you based on the information you gave them (or didnt give them). You passed the medical which was FAA based. Based on that they certified that you would be able to benifit. The school and the loans people are NOT fault because you didnt provide them with the correct information. Based on other false certifications I have handled, you are liable for the loans. You withheld vital information that would have disqualified you from the school and the loan.
QUOTE(LynnInMN @ Apr 11 2005, 10:36 AM)
The key on the False Certification is
""You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan."
The school did not falsely certfy you based on the information you gave them (or didnt give them). You passed the medical which was FAA based. Based on that they certified that you would be able to benifit. The school and the loans people are NOT fault because you didnt provide them with the correct information. Based on other false certifications I have handled, you are liable for the loans. You withheld vital information that would have disqualified you from the school and the loan.
""You must provide documentation to prove that you (or, for PLUS borrowers, the student) had the disqualifying status at the time the school certified or originated your loan."
The school did not falsely certfy you based on the information you gave them (or didnt give them). You passed the medical which was FAA based. Based on that they certified that you would be able to benifit. The school and the loans people are NOT fault because you didnt provide them with the correct information. Based on other false certifications I have handled, you are liable for the loans. You withheld vital information that would have disqualified you from the school and the loan.
I don't know if you understand. I had the personality disorder for awhile apparently; it was first diagnosed while in the service. This is on my discharge papers that I gave to the university. It is stamped as received in by them in 1988, WELL before I got the loan. I paid most of it myself; I only had to go to loans in 1996/1997. I NEVER withheld any information from school or the USDE. To get my 'learners permit' I got a third class medical permit from the FAA examiner. They are good for 2 years. When I went to re-up my FAA medical exam after the first one expired I failed it and the subsequent one I just took in March 2005.
Here's another quote from the USDE form; I don't know where you got yours from:
"At the time the school certified or originated your loan, you (or, for PLUS borrowers the student) were unable to meet the legal requirements for employment in your state of residence (or, for PLUS borrowers the student state of residence) in the occupation for which the program of study was intended because of age, a physical or mental condition, criminal record or other reason."
At the time the loan was originated, I was unable to meet the legal requirements of the FAA to get first class medical certification due to a mental condition. It is clearly black and white. It isn't even required THAT the school know about the condition, just the fact that the condition existed at the time the loan was originated. BUT the school DID know about it, as was shown on the copy they made of my DD-214. They used my DD-214 to see what military schools I took so they could give me some credit based on those schools. Right there on the DD-214 it shows reason for separation "personality disorder" and the separation code 6203.3 is for Convenience of the Government: Personality disorder.
So not only did the condition exist when the loan was originated, the school also knew about it. Here's the deal: I didn't graduate from school nor did I even get the most basic pilot's license. I was PAYING my loans but it was becoming increasingly difficult (work, school, marriage, mental problems). Once I found out it was POSSIBLE that the loan be forgiven I started this process. All I've gotten from the USDE is false 120+ days late on my credit, false bankruptcies, and 4 extra years of interest. In 2001 THE USDE suggested that I may qualify to have the loan discharged so I filed the necessary paperwork. I didn't hear anything from them for YEARS until I found they had put a bankruptcy on my credit. THEN when I got it removed in late 2004 they decided to reinstate the loan, with interest running the whole time! They NEVER responded to my request to have the loan discharged and let 4 years of interest accrue instead!
So you're taking their side? I guess having worked for them you know how they work. Is this how the USDE works? THEY put false info on credit reports to get people to capitulate? THEY lie right to you on the phone that they NEVER reported negative info to the CRAs? THEY don't even address your concerns about false, negative info on the CRAs but instead try to talk over you on the phone to steer the conversation their way? Is this what YOU were trained to do?
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