Hello everyone,

I am writing this with concern. I am nervous that some may be biting off more then they can chew. We as a community have to help each other and that is exactly what I am trying to do here. I don't want anyone to be burned in an attempt of litigating violations. This is not legal advice, and I am not an attorney. I am an average consumer that is sharing knowledge that I have gained throughout my credit repair journey. I am not trying to discourage anyone, just looking to clarify the road ahead.

Stay off the phone!
Send everything CMRRR!

A lot of people have seen others filing civil lawsuits against Collection Agencies and Credit Reporting Agencies. I have noticed a lot of you also thinking about taking legal actions. It may seem like a great way to make some quick cash or to get quick results. It of course, is neither of the two.


When dealing with some of these unscrupulous companies out there, it WILL get frustrating. The thing you have to remember is that the journey you have embarked on has great rewards for the successful.

This journey can also lead to a lawsuit being filed against you for an unpaid debt. It can also lead to you waking a sleeping giant. The mentality to go into this should be like you are a fly on the wall collecting information and knowledge. Once you have all your ammo (evidence) then turn into that bear.

Everyone must realize that just because a collection agency violates your rights as a consumer, doesn't mean to run out and litigate the matter. Remember, your here for credit repair NOT courtroom tactics. The important thing to do is start a paper trail of all correspondences and violations.

Keep clear and complete records of your journey. After you have DV'd the collection agency 3-4 times via Certified mail then go back and pick out all the violations and place that in letterform. This letter is basically saying. Look your company has violated all these rules in the FCRA, and FDCPA and I have complete supporting documentation. You then demand for the validation/deletion. If no response I would then add to the letter, something to the fact of I am considering legal action. I would then send that out and wait for a response. I would follow that up with an intent to sue.

When you send that Intent to Sue letter you better make sure you have the kahonas to actually do it. If everyone keeps crying wolf, the CA's are just going to laugh.

You must completely understand the time and effort involved in such action. It is in no way (that looks weird 5 words only 11 letters) something to be attempted by the average consumer alone. I personally would interview a couple of attorney and throw them a couple quick quiz questions. Making sure they know their FDCPA and FCRA. Most FDCPA and FCRA attorneys work on contingency basis. Due to the simple fact that it is so defined in the FCRA and FDCPA that a successful complaint returns attorney costs. Don't let an attorney double dip! They will try and demand a piece of the settlement; this isn't like a car accident. The rules are clearly defined and if a CA breaks them they are liable to YOU.

For those of you that think you can take on a case Pro Se (representing ones self) there are a lot of things to be considered and learned.

Costs- be prepared to shell out some money. Federal court will cost $250 just to file a complaint. Local and state courts have a wide range of filing fees. You can't forget the costs for Service of Complaint, Postal Fees, Copy fees, parking fees, and travel fees. These costs to the eye may seem nominal but they add up VERY quick.

Time- For those of you that have done it Pro Se, you know you can never explain how many man/woman hours you invested in a case. That said, unless you have A LOT of free time on your hands, I would not consider Pro Se.

Education - Be willing and prepared to learn and read a lot! You must learn everything regarding case litigation. Court room procedures, actual laws, legal terminology, legal forms, complete case procedures from start to finish and much more.

Emotions- you must be able to undertake this with a clear mind. If you are going to attempt this, be prepared to give it your all. It will take a lot out of you. It will seem like it is not worth it at times.

With all that being said, completing a case Pro Se can be extremely rewarding mentally. You would be left with win or lose, a proud sense of achievement.

Litigating violations by the collection industry should be your last option. If you have exhausted every other avenue, then litigate it. If you have listened to my suggestions, by this point you should have 6-7 letters you wrote to the violator. Making sure you have a big stack of supporting evidence. The courts want a clear case and don't want to be burdened with frivolous complaints. You can even be fined for bringing a frivolous lawsuit to the courts. If you are going to do it, do it right!

Remember, informed consumers are the collection industries worst nightmare!

Good Luck!

For those of you that have the experience of litigating violations please share your thoughts and tips regarding this.

Im with Ken its easy to get in over your head CA's will not fold easy even when they know they screw up just remember they have the money and resources. When I sued RMA I even had a letter from the stating that they knew I had a BK and they pulled 12 NONPP I final had to get an attorney I did settled with them and the CRA they pulled from but it took 6 months I think the main thing especailly with CRA is the don't want case law against them.

I have some tips! If you don't have at least a couple Sections of the FCRA and half the FDCPA memorized in your head yet. Don't sue as you will literally drown yourself in reading too much.

Don't send an ITS unless you are planning on marching to the courthouse with that $250 (now why did they raise the cost $100 for) to file a complaint. Keep in mind, on average you spend, well I do, about 30 hours drafting a complaint. I STRESSSSSS not sending an ITS if you aren't going to even file as alot of grunt work goes into filing a suit.

Great information guys........It's indeed a daunting task learning how things work with diy credit repair. I'm quite convinced that the courts depise frivolty, which is earmarked by the one clothed in a lawsuit crazy outfit. When you read the FDCPA as Ken suggested, the first part of it outlines its purpose as being there to protect consumers from unscupulous collection tactics. Time is on our sides it seems as long as one is patient in giving collectors all the rope they need to hang themselves. I'm seeing it happening now as I'm getting replies back from my DV letters. Yes, I'm seeing violations, but I don't intend alerting them to it right away. Rather, the dispute with continued re-attempts at having them validate the debt seems to be the best way to give them that rope.

Thank you so very much for giving insightfull words of wisdom!
I think you did a marvelous job of clearing up some of the myths that still creep onto this site from time to time.

Hats off to your well composed message!

Another thing people often overlook is the amount of legal research that is necessary to prepare not just the complaint but also to prepare responses. The availability of online use of West and other services has made research much easier, but there are still some costs associated with that approach. Similarly, there are costs associated with pulling cases off of PACER...although minimal at $.08 a page, they still add up over time.

Admittedly, once you get through the obstacle course the first time, the subsequent trips become a little easier, but if you mess up the first time, you can wind up having something that blew up in your face.

Ken's comments are a very real reminder that all is not the rosy view that some websites would have you believe suing a CA/CRA has as an outcome.

Oh, and remember that even very few attorneys go pro se in matters that involve themselves as a litigant...

I wish I had a choice in this matter, I hate the idea of litigation. I would not bring action against a CA but find myself in the not so unique position of being sued by one. Thanks for the advise and its proving to be every bit as troublesome, time consuming and emotionally draining as you indicate.

Well Darkstorm, some things can't be controlled. Just make sure you go into as an "educated consumer"

Best of Luck!

Ken, I kept my mouth shut this a.m. when you started this wonderful topic. However, I've been thinking about it all day and truly believe it should go in the consumer protection or newbie section for everyone to refer to.

Nice work Ken and everyone who responded.

Well thank you Frisbee! Thank you to everyone else that shared feedback as well.

I actually wanted more people to share their experience before I hinted around for the staff to think about moving this topic. (Oops, theres hint #1 )

Glad I could be of service.

Second the motion to move to permanent status.

Lawsuit vet here...

Let me say that I personally think that you really should have all your ducks in a row before pulling the trigger on a suit. So many people on here send 1 or 2 DV letters, the CA verifies, and they want to run off to court. I didn't even sue Equifax until I'd baited them into committing about 6 additional violvations...by that time I had at least one on each baddie in my report and it ended up cleaning me up for good on EQ.

The other thing you have to realize is...these people WILL settle. Unless you're unrealistic about your financial expectations from settlement, they CRA's especially have NO interest in establishing new case law against them. Even worse, they have NO intentions of being made to fix the way they presently do things.

I'm definitely no credit repair veteran here either, but I think a reading of the FDCPA itself reveals the need for time and patience:

1692k.b."In determining the amount of liability in any section under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors--(1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional."

This is why I used multiple communications with the CA's to begin with. DV, Estoppel, a third letter to the CA and even one to the OC (explaining the law of agency and clean hands), and fourth letter to the CA, but I don't actually get to the ITS part until my fifth letter to the CA (which includes the docket number and a copy of my complaint)...It shows a pattern of behavior by the CA and proves the frequency and persistence that the courts look for.

This approach seems to be working for me. Myfico.com scores have gone from 540 to 696. There is really only one CA who is being stubborn who I have 10 months of violations stacked up on--so we'll just have to see what the future holds.

Bump for the weekend crew

Bump

Good stuff in here.

Only thing I would add is that know you are right, and don't forget that part -- even when the pushing gets hard. They will try and tell you why you don't have a case, or where you are weak ... consider this, if your case wasn't strong why are they fighting it instead of filling a motion to dismiss? Also the other thing is if your case is rock solid, push for a settlement before depositions, that could cost into the thousands to pursue or realitively cheap depending on what type you use, but either way it is going to take a ton of time and energy you may not have.

I will chime in as I remember other things.

Good thread,
Jessica

Thanks for all the info!!! It is ALOT of hard work, and a Hell of a rollercoaster ride of emotions!

I am trying to by all means to avoid litigation, I believe if and when you exhaust all means then to file.

I am currently trying a different venue: filing complaints with the governing agency i.e PUC, FCC. Hopefully these work if not, I believe I have enough documentation to go in along with an actual govt entity documentation as supporting paperwork. I would love to recieve Removal letters or settlement but so far no luck.

Yep, this does need to be moved to newbie section. Would it also be possible in outlining a filing lawsuits for dummies cheatcheat? or would that be too much info and more would be jumping into that instead of going the long route? Kind of.."So you have battled for xx mos, have xx letters, is it time to sue? Checklist of sorts would be very helpful.

southsidecali,

The only problem we face in writing something like what you are saying is, we are not attorneys. However, it is an excellent idea. One day I have some time once my Palisades case is over I will try to write up an "experience" guide.

Can I get a little woot woot!

woot woot!

LMAO

EXCELLENT topic EXCELLENT advice !!! Should definitely be a sticky

bump

Excellent post Ken..your statements can only be fully appreciated by someone who has made some of the mistakes you've mentioned in your post. Great info on not waking up any sleeping giant with an ITS letter while still in the SOL, a mistake made by me in the very 'i'm gonna get them days.' Knowledge, without question, is power. Papertrail is fully what this is all about...again, great post and a *woot woot*

Realtor Ken...thanks for this thread...you referred me to it a few weeks ago when I thought I was going to do everything myself and file...well after reading your thread I decided to find an attorney to handle it for us, we don't have the time to be dealing with this stiff and it turns out our attorney id GREAT, he said he was part of CB when it first started (don't know what his screenname was). He is extremely knowledgable and we are happy to have him working for us.

Thanks for the insight!

All newbies should read this

What a pleasant surprise!

I love seing this bumped

Josh, I am so glad I could help you. Even if it was just instilling a little hesitation in you.

I truly feel if this thread helped one person it was worth the 2,883 and a half hours that it took me to obtain the knowledge (or lack of knowledge) I have today about Credit repair.

Wonderful thread! Just wanted to bump it before it hit page two.

Okay, gonna bump back to page 1. For some reason anytime I respond to a thread it dies. LOL

Monthly bump for new members and people who haven't read this.

RealtorKen:




EVERYONE should take your cautions to heart!

Court should be the last place you go, if you have any choice at all!!

Why? The process can be expensive, as RealtorKen has pointed out so emphatically in his post. Do you have that money...and TIME...to do the job well?

Can you take the pressure of dealing with your adversary/adversaries, who is/are more experienced than you will probably ever be? (People, when sued, can turn even nastier than they were before--the "lion trapped in a corner and cannot escape" theory, you might say (they'll fight to get out!).)

Are you willing--and able--to take a "crash course" in law? (Being your own attorney does have its disadvantages!) If not, can you find a good attorney? If you find him/her/them, can you afford to pay them (if your case won't/can't be taken on contingency)?

Are you a good, and confident, public speaker? (The shy and/or easily intimidated need not apply--your adversary will just "cream" you!!)

Did you try to settle before you sued?

Are you willing to settle before the case is to be heard in Court?

Let's face it:

Nearly everyone who has to face up to being "in collections" or is doing "credit 'repair'" is not exactly "flush" with cash, are they?? (They would likely not BE in collections OR doing credit repair if they weren't in financial trouble (or "in recovery" from it!)!!

Can you afford to undertake the process anyway?

It would be a shame to "lose" simply because the opposition had more money and/or time than you!

I agree with Realtorken, keeping it REAL. I really appreciated this post. I was about to file in Federal but I am glad the CA deleted. I mistakenly sent the ITS letter which was my 3rd letter to the CA, I was about to follow up with the letter to the ACA, and thier and my AG.

I definatly didn't want this to go to court, But I had prepared my self for a journey.

Thank you all so much for the posts (and thank YOU ken for starting this topic!!). This will help me a bunch when I go to clean up both my fiance's and my credit (I don't think the SOL has passed on any of his things, and there are other considerations I'm not sure about--I only have one neg..and that's just lates though).

I do have one question. I noticed when I was trying to read the laws you're talking about (FDCPA? and FCRA?) I noticed at least one of them in pdf format. I've been having hell trying to get it downloaded (it hasn't dl'ed right YET), so can't access those. Is there anyway we can get a link to the updated law (I saw a link to the older ones), or as a word doc? That would be much appreciated.

Kudos to everyone who posted suggestions/advice!

Great post RealtorKen.

I'm a newbie and wanted to question some people who have been posting litigous threads, but I'm nowhere near the point to give advice of that nature.

For example there was a thread started yesterday I believe which said something to the effect of "I sent out an ITS with no response, what should I do next" Well why would you send out an INTENT to sue if you have no intent? Basically everything you send after an ITS gets laughed at because they basically called your bluff.

Just my two cents...sorry for rambling and sorry if it is inappropriate for this thread.

You learn quickly young grasshopper. You do not send an ITS if you do not intend to sue. They are indeed calling your hand and hoping its a bluff. The more people that bluff the less effective ITS becomes. If you get to a dead end and your only option is suing the CA or OC then and only then is an ITS appropriate. Nutcase on the other hand remains effective. I have known several people whoes sole 6 figure income is derived from suing the government for mundane legal infractions. These people are indeed feared by OCs, CAs and CRAs.

Excellent insight on the proper mindset for lawsuits.
Moving to the Newbie section so that it doesn't get lost.

It appears to me like we have a set of new members that are lawsuit hungry. Please help them out by telling them to read this.

Once again I am amazed at the sheer breadth of knowledge available on this board, and of course provided by its members

Woot, Woot

That being said, this was exactly the thread that I had been looking for for the last week, and I really appreciate the information and insight it gave to me. I was in the process of calling my Uncle (who practices contract law in Los Angelos) and asking him some questions about legal procedure and whatnot. Mind you, I am in no way actually trying to go to court, or even send an ITS letter, but I figure the more I know how things actually work before I start my clean-up the better off I will be.

RealtorKen, thank you for starting this thread.

Xyth

I have hit the point where all I'm left is to sue.

I've been fighting with a CA since April over a stupid $247 debt. They refuse to validate, refuse to respond and when they do, just blow me off. I have filed complaints with the FTC, the BBB and the state Attorneys General.

Countless post office trips, countless hours spent researching and writing letters and nothing to show for it except the same trade line and 5 verified or previously verfied letters.

My question is, should I get a lawyer? I have two young boys and a wife and I don't want to neglect them, so I am not sure if I should prepare everything or just turn over my 60+ page paper trail to a consumer protection attorney.

Looking to hear from those who have filed. Much appreciated.

hmm. haven't been here in a Looooong time, but let me offer a different perspective.

Actually it's incredibly easy to sue the CRAs and IMO everyone should be doing it.

Ok, ok, not EVERYONE. But just about everyone.

Wanna see the CRAs straigten up and fly right?
If more people would sue, then I'd expect to see some changes instead of the same ole, same ole.

In my experience, it took no more effort to sue the CRAs then it did to simply do the same amount of research than it would have taken otherwise.

That said, i DID my research well before even writing my first letter of ANY kind.

What was my research? Simply reading every single thread on this board (actually the old CNet board...cause we started this one)

I'd say actual "lawsuit" hours were no more than 10 extra hours of research.
And most of that was simply driving to the courthouse to file the motions and telling the CRAs lawyers that they'd better settle now or incur my wrath...lol

In my opinion, there is no BETTER reason to be "lawsuit happy" then when it comes to your credit, which is de facto, your "financial freedom" and "right to privacy" and all kinds of other Constitutional Rights.

I fear more people who SHOULD be suing, are not, because of fear, instead of "too many" people suing over lack of preparation or research.

My 'advice' for newbies would be this.
Spend month 1, reading every possible thread on this board and related FCRA laws.
Spend month 2, sending off incredibly well-researched (from month 1) letters ( and keep reading threads).
Spend month 3, suing and settling for money or deletions.
Spend month 4, wrapping up any lose ends....

and then be done with it - move on to living life.

It simply makes no sense to spend 6 months - years trying to fix your credit when it can be done in 4 months with a concerted WELL-RESEARCHED effort on your part.

Remember, it's just not about YOU either. Everytime you sue (win,lose, or settle), you're making the path easier for someone else down the line.

My .2 cents. Back to credit oblivion.

Humblemarc is right. It was surprising easy to sue EQ and get what I wanted. The longest part was just the waiting.

I'd sooner sue a CRA than an OC or CA anyday...

Humblemark - is there a thread where you sued the CRA? I'd like to see what you did and how it turned out.

Well, Equifax has been next in line for a little bit. Once I get a ruling on my MPSJ, I will go after them.

This is where I am at. Disputed problems on my credit card (per the FCBA 1666). Response I got was we are legal you are cancelled. No follow threw. Both violations. Then got involved with a law firm (CA) told them to validate. Sent me a copy of my last monthly statement (not validated). When to court, explained all this to the judge. While he agreed with me and the fact that I could prove errors on my account. He still ruled against me stating they proved (with that monthly statement) that I owed money. So I had no option but to file bankruptcy (Colorado has wage garnishment and House Liens). So what I would like help with is does anyone have cases involving either the FCBA or FDCPA. I would like to use small claims court to sue both the Credit card and the attorney.

My Small Claims Experience

We are going back to small claims court again on Monday to address the OC'S refusal to correct the credit reports. For us,too,court was a last resort.The validation request went out in Jan. and the first court date was in July.With many,many letters between the two.

The OC's rep did not show for the hearing- shows how important this was to them. She later told the court she "forgot" and requested a new one. A new date was set, and she showed up,but asked to leave because she felt "sick". THEY LET HER LEAVE! And set another date.

The preparation is killing me,I'm drowning in paperwork, and I'm sick of writing responses when the OC comes up with their stupid reasons for not dealing with this matter. The 2 judges we have know nothing about credit law and it's hard to condense things for them.These judges are too nice. I still haven't had my day in court and just want to get the whole thing over with. Would I do it again? Maybe not.Definitely not anything more complicated than small claims.

This is why I wouldn't file in small claims. Small claims court puts up with this kind of crap. "Real" courts do not. I'm sorry you're having such a time here...I hope you end up getting the payoff at the end...

Unfortunately you made it harder on yourself by going the small claims court route. Like CargoJohn said, small claims is not the place for these lawsuits.

What is the latest status on it?

I have to disagree.

I've filed a number of suits in small claims and all but the first (yeah, I was learning and if I knew then what I know now it would have been appealed. It Did however get the TL removed. ) have achieved my objectives and then some.

Small amounts (especially small PAID collections) will most likely be settled, as the CA/OC will not want to be burdened with a suit, especially if you are located in another state. I can file small claims for $155 and they have to hire a local attorney, and fly a representative out for the hearing, all of which costs them in the thousands. Are they really willing to spend all that to defend a small paid account? What business sense does that make?

I agree that filing suit should not be taken lightly. But, legal recourse is the most important credit repair tool available. All the tactics espoused here pave the road to a legal remedy. We just hope that our opponent will be smart enough not to force it to that legal remedy.

This being said, I feel that flying under the radar is very useful. Sometimes that doesn't work and the good ole law suit is the only way to resolve the issue.

Small claims court is a tool. And as any other tool, there is a time and place for its uses.

Can anyone provide me with a site I can find Bankruptcy lawsuits. Citibank violated the automatic stay so I am going to go after them. I would like to see if I can get more info on what to expect.

.