This was originally posted in the credit forum and someone suggested that I might find help in this forum.
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Hi all, I've been watching and reading the CB for awhile now and I've reached a point where I can't figure out the next step. My situation:
Back in '97, I attended the University of Phoenix for about 18 months before dropping out. I dropped out because during one of my classes, I became ill and missed 2 sessions. Even though I performed all of the work, they dropped me from the class and then claimed that they returned the student loan money that was used to pay for the class. I checked with my lender, Citibank, and there was no record of any monies being returned or a credit against my student loan balance. At that point, I figured it was a scam and I left the school.
Fast forward to now: UOP has reported to the CRAs that this is a collection and they update it monthly. I disputed it twice with the CRAs as "not mine" because I don't believe I owe this money (about 1200) but it always comes back verified. Based on info I found here, I sent a ltr to UOP stating that I needed proof that they had in fact returned the money to my student loan provider. What I received in the mail was some type of computer printout with the title "Student Account History" with a list of cryptic "transactions.
I can't figure out what my next step should be. Is there anyone that can provide me with some guidance about what to do next?
Thank you for your time.
Clueless Virtualbev
Full Version: Negative Reporting by University of Phoenix
Hi Bev - it seems like you actually have several issues going on here.
Were these private student loans, or federally-backed (FFELP, Stafford, Perkins)?
I am not familiar with the University of Phoenix (other than their spam and popups), so I can't tell you if they are a scam or not. I'm not sure if their printout showed proof that your student loan money was returned to the lender or not based on what info you've provided.
What puzzles me is that you say UofP is reporting the collection on your reports, not Citibank. Yet your student loan was with Citibank, not with UofP. So why would UofP be reporting a collection for your student loan money? Usually, Universities only report collections for University fees, not for student loans - those notations usually come from lenders, servicers, and guarantors. On your credit report, does it just say "collection" or does it actually say "student loan?"
Maybe it would help if we knew what those "cryptic transactions" said from the Student Account History printout?
Sorry to just pound you with more questions instead of answers. I'll admit I'm still confused here. Perhaps others have more insight.
QUOTE
Even though I performed all of the work, they dropped me from the class and then claimed that they returned the student loan money that was used to pay for the class. I checked with my lender, Citibank, and there was no record of any monies being returned or a credit against my student loan balance. At that point, I figured it was a scam and I left the school.
At that point, did you contact the school again and ask for proof that they returned the student loan money to Citibank? Did you get Citi involved with this at all? Do you have any records from this period? If you believe it was a scam, then that is a diff issue from the student loan collection.
QUOTE
Based on info I found here, I sent a ltr to UOP stating that I needed proof that they had in fact returned the money to my student loan provider. What I received in the mail was some type of computer printout with the title "Student Account History" with a list of cryptic "transactions.
Not sure what to tell you here. I'm not sure if those cryptic transactions constitute proof of debt or not. Can you be a bit more specific?
Were these private student loans, or federally-backed (FFELP, Stafford, Perkins)?
I am not familiar with the University of Phoenix (other than their spam and popups), so I can't tell you if they are a scam or not. I'm not sure if their printout showed proof that your student loan money was returned to the lender or not based on what info you've provided.
What puzzles me is that you say UofP is reporting the collection on your reports, not Citibank. Yet your student loan was with Citibank, not with UofP. So why would UofP be reporting a collection for your student loan money? Usually, Universities only report collections for University fees, not for student loans - those notations usually come from lenders, servicers, and guarantors. On your credit report, does it just say "collection" or does it actually say "student loan?"
Maybe it would help if we knew what those "cryptic transactions" said from the Student Account History printout?
Sorry to just pound you with more questions instead of answers. I'll admit I'm still confused here. Perhaps others have more insight.
Did Citibank ever actually disperse the funds to begin with?
QUOTE
Hi Bev - it seems like you actually have several issues going on here.
I actually disputed it first with the CRAs. When it came back as verified, I wrote the letter to UoP saying that I didn't know what they were trying to pull but that my student loans had been paid to them and therefore the classes were paid for and I couldn't possibly owe this money. If there's a way to upload the letter so everyone can see it, let me know. Also, the same with the cryptic printout they sent me. Citibank doesn't have a problem with me because I'm current on paying my student loans. UoP believes I owe this money I think because they dropped me from a claim and then claimed that they had to send the money "back to Citibank" because they dropped me from the class. I contacted Citibank (only by phone when this originally happened) and was told that no funds had been returned and that my student loan amounts were the same. If they really had returned the money and I had proof of that then I would pay them even though I was wrongly dropped from the class. That is why UoP is reporting to the credit bureau: because they say that I owe money for a class that they dropped me from and because they dropped me, they had to return the money for that class back to the student loan provider. Citibank did disburse the loans and in fact, I had to wait to get the leftovers from UoP after they took all that they were supposed to get.
These were the standard subsidized and unsubsidized student loans.
The credit report says it is actually a "collection."
QUOTE
Even though I performed all of the work, they dropped me from the class and then claimed that they returned the student loan money that was used to pay for the class. I checked with my lender, Citibank, and there was no record of any monies being returned or a credit against my student loan balance. At that point, I figured it was a scam and I left the school.
QUOTE
At that point, did you contact the school again and ask for proof that they returned the student loan money to Citibank? Did you get Citi involved with this at all? Do you have any records from this period? If you believe it was a scam, then that is a diff issue from the student loan collection.
I actually disputed it first with the CRAs. When it came back as verified, I wrote the letter to UoP saying that I didn't know what they were trying to pull but that my student loans had been paid to them and therefore the classes were paid for and I couldn't possibly owe this money. If there's a way to upload the letter so everyone can see it, let me know. Also, the same with the cryptic printout they sent me. Citibank doesn't have a problem with me because I'm current on paying my student loans. UoP believes I owe this money I think because they dropped me from a claim and then claimed that they had to send the money "back to Citibank" because they dropped me from the class. I contacted Citibank (only by phone when this originally happened) and was told that no funds had been returned and that my student loan amounts were the same. If they really had returned the money and I had proof of that then I would pay them even though I was wrongly dropped from the class. That is why UoP is reporting to the credit bureau: because they say that I owe money for a class that they dropped me from and because they dropped me, they had to return the money for that class back to the student loan provider. Citibank did disburse the loans and in fact, I had to wait to get the leftovers from UoP after they took all that they were supposed to get.
QUOTE
Based on info I found here, I sent a ltr to UOP stating that I needed proof that they had in fact returned the money to my student loan provider. What I received in the mail was some type of computer printout with the title "Student Account History" with a list of cryptic "transactions.
Not sure what to tell you here. I'm not sure if those cryptic transactions constitute proof of debt or not. Can you be a bit more specific?
QUOTE
Were these private student loans, or federally-backed (FFELP, Stafford, Perkins)?
These were the standard subsidized and unsubsidized student loans.
QUOTE
I am not familiar with the University of Phoenix (other than their spam and popups), so I can't tell you if they are a scam or not. I'm not sure if their printout showed proof that your student loan money was returned to the lender or not based on what info you've provided.
What puzzles me is that you say UofP is reporting the collection on your reports, not Citibank. Yet your student loan was with Citibank, not with UofP. So why would UofP be reporting a collection for your student loan money? Usually, Universities only report collections for University fees, not for student loans - those notations usually come from lenders, servicers, and guarantors. On your credit report, does it just say "collection" or does it actually say "student loan?"
What puzzles me is that you say UofP is reporting the collection on your reports, not Citibank. Yet your student loan was with Citibank, not with UofP. So why would UofP be reporting a collection for your student loan money? Usually, Universities only report collections for University fees, not for student loans - those notations usually come from lenders, servicers, and guarantors. On your credit report, does it just say "collection" or does it actually say "student loan?"
The credit report says it is actually a "collection."
QUOTE
Maybe it would help if we knew what those "cryptic transactions" said from the Student Account History printout?
Sorry to just pound you with more questions instead of answers. I'll admit I'm still confused here. Perhaps others have more insight.
Sorry to just pound you with more questions instead of answers. I'll admit I'm still confused here. Perhaps others have more insight.
I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if I can provide other information or if there is a way for me to show you the letter I sent and what I received in return. Thanks bunches,
Sorry if my previous post is unclear and also sorry for taking so long to respond.
Bev - there is no need to apologize. Things like this are confusing and sometimes it just takes some digging and detective work to figure things out.
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me like your student loans are actually fine. You're current with Citibank and they agree. So University of Phoenix is saying you owe for these classes and that they returned the money to Citi. hmmmmmmmm *thinking*
Okay - ultimately, you are going to have to prove that you don't owe U of P any money. Citi is saying they disbursed the loan and didn't get a refund, UofP is saying Citi is wrong. You're in the middle of a he-said/she-said situation here, so you need to get complete statements of account from them both, and from an independent 3rd source for comparison. Sorry to send you out for more detective work... lol
1. Independent source - since these are sub/unsub, they should be listed in the Student Loan Locator (link in the Important Links stickie at the top of this forum) Print that out - it'll be a record (from the govt) of every loan disbursed on your behalf. I'd be interested to see how this compares to Citi's records, but especially to UofP's records.
2. Citi - can you get them to send you a complete statement of your account activity for the semester you got dropped?
3. UofP - I wouldn't scan that info to put up here, just to keep your personal info private. Any way to type it in (with identifying stuff redacted)? I don't know if it's 3 lines or 3 pages, so let me know if that's too big of a pain - maybe you can summarize instead?
Another issue that may or may not be relevant. Usually if you drop a class early enough that part of your student loan must be refunded to the lender, you are also early enough that part of your tuition is waived too. Might be worth checking into UofP's early withdrawal refund policy to see what's up with that.
Hang in there.
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me like your student loans are actually fine. You're current with Citibank and they agree. So University of Phoenix is saying you owe for these classes and that they returned the money to Citi. hmmmmmmmm *thinking*
Okay - ultimately, you are going to have to prove that you don't owe U of P any money. Citi is saying they disbursed the loan and didn't get a refund, UofP is saying Citi is wrong. You're in the middle of a he-said/she-said situation here, so you need to get complete statements of account from them both, and from an independent 3rd source for comparison. Sorry to send you out for more detective work... lol
1. Independent source - since these are sub/unsub, they should be listed in the Student Loan Locator (link in the Important Links stickie at the top of this forum) Print that out - it'll be a record (from the govt) of every loan disbursed on your behalf. I'd be interested to see how this compares to Citi's records, but especially to UofP's records.
2. Citi - can you get them to send you a complete statement of your account activity for the semester you got dropped?
3. UofP - I wouldn't scan that info to put up here, just to keep your personal info private. Any way to type it in (with identifying stuff redacted)? I don't know if it's 3 lines or 3 pages, so let me know if that's too big of a pain - maybe you can summarize instead?
Another issue that may or may not be relevant. Usually if you drop a class early enough that part of your student loan must be refunded to the lender, you are also early enough that part of your tuition is waived too. Might be worth checking into UofP's early withdrawal refund policy to see what's up with that.
Hang in there.
Thanks Cheech! I'm pasting the letter below that I sent.
This is the letter I sent to UoP.
VIA CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT
General Counsel
University of Phoenix
4615 E. Elwood
Phoenix, AZ 85040
Re: Credit Report Dispute
Dear Sir or Madam:
In a recent review of my credit report, I noticed that there is an erroneous derogatory entry from the University of Phoenix which claims that I owe a debt of $1203.00. It references an account number of __________. Although I attended the University of Phoenix in 1997 -- 7 years ago -- all of my tuition was paid for by a financial aid loan which I am still paying on today. This is obviously an attempt to extort money and I am positive this is illegal under whatever basis you believe you can claim that I owe this debt.
Under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (the "FDCPA"), I have the right to request validation of this alleged debt. I demand to know the basis for which you believe I owe this debt. Please be aware that a sworn affidavit from your compliance officer does not constitute an appropriate validation of this debt. If I do not receive this information, or alternatively, a notarized affidavit requesting deletion by all credit reporting agencies of this erroneous information, within 10 days, I will be forced to pursue other avenues to remedy this situation, including filing complaints with the California Attorney General and the California Department of Education.
Please also be aware that I intend to report these violations to the Federal Trade Commission and will request that it investigate the University of Phoenix's violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act ("FCRA"). As I am sure that this is not the University of Phoenix's first attempt at extortion, I am hopeful that the FTC will see the need to protect consumers from this type of blatant illegal activity. Of course, I am also prepared, if necessary, to file a civil action against the University of Phoenix for its violations of the FCRA and all other applicable state and federal statutes.
I expect your response within 10 days.
This is what the printout said:
Date Transaction Description Amount Balance
09-Oct-97 CHRG MKT/541:009795666 990.00 990.00
20-Nov-97 CHRG MGT/512:009795669 990.00 1,980.00
05-Jan-98 DM REXCFA:167037 SJ-Refund 120.00 2,100.00
05-Jan-98 PMT 027280540:252072 4,080.00- 1,980.00-
22-Jan-98 CHRG MGT/532:009795671 990.00 990.00
This is only partial but you probably get the gist. There are about 20 more line items and I'd be happy to PDF it and email it to you.
Because the classes are so short, they say if you miss 2 classes you will be automatically be dropped. I disagreed with being dropped because I completed all the work and had the work delivered to the instructor but it didn't matter. That's another issue though. Anyway, if in fact they returned the money to CitiBank, then my student loans should have been credited, and it would make sense that I owe the money on that level.
I'll work on the stuff you mentioned about getting the loan info.
Thanks again!
QUOTE
Bev - there is no need to apologize. Things like this are confusing and sometimes it just takes some digging and detective work to figure things out.
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me like your student loans are actually fine. You're current with Citibank and they agree. So University of Phoenix is saying you owe for these classes and that they returned the money to Citi. hmmmmmmmm *thinking*
Okay - ultimately, you are going to have to prove that you don't owe U of P any money. Citi is saying they disbursed the loan and didn't get a refund, UofP is saying Citi is wrong. You're in the middle of a he-said/she-said situation here, so you need to get complete statements of account from them both, and from an independent 3rd source for comparison. Sorry to send you out for more detective work... lol
1. Independent source - since these are sub/unsub, they should be listed in the Student Loan Locator (link in the Important Links stickie at the top of this forum) Print that out - it'll be a record (from the govt) of every loan disbursed on your behalf. I'd be interested to see how this compares to Citi's records, but especially to UofP's records.
2. Citi - can you get them to send you a complete statement of your account activity for the semester you got dropped?
3. UofP - I wouldn't scan that info to put up here, just to keep your personal info private. Any way to type it in (with identifying stuff redacted)? I don't know if it's 3 lines or 3 pages, so let me know if that's too big of a pain - maybe you can summarize instead?
Hang in there.
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me like your student loans are actually fine. You're current with Citibank and they agree. So University of Phoenix is saying you owe for these classes and that they returned the money to Citi. hmmmmmmmm *thinking*
Okay - ultimately, you are going to have to prove that you don't owe U of P any money. Citi is saying they disbursed the loan and didn't get a refund, UofP is saying Citi is wrong. You're in the middle of a he-said/she-said situation here, so you need to get complete statements of account from them both, and from an independent 3rd source for comparison. Sorry to send you out for more detective work... lol
1. Independent source - since these are sub/unsub, they should be listed in the Student Loan Locator (link in the Important Links stickie at the top of this forum) Print that out - it'll be a record (from the govt) of every loan disbursed on your behalf. I'd be interested to see how this compares to Citi's records, but especially to UofP's records.
2. Citi - can you get them to send you a complete statement of your account activity for the semester you got dropped?
3. UofP - I wouldn't scan that info to put up here, just to keep your personal info private. Any way to type it in (with identifying stuff redacted)? I don't know if it's 3 lines or 3 pages, so let me know if that's too big of a pain - maybe you can summarize instead?
Hang in there.
This is the letter I sent to UoP.
VIA CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT
General Counsel
University of Phoenix
4615 E. Elwood
Phoenix, AZ 85040
Re: Credit Report Dispute
Dear Sir or Madam:
In a recent review of my credit report, I noticed that there is an erroneous derogatory entry from the University of Phoenix which claims that I owe a debt of $1203.00. It references an account number of __________. Although I attended the University of Phoenix in 1997 -- 7 years ago -- all of my tuition was paid for by a financial aid loan which I am still paying on today. This is obviously an attempt to extort money and I am positive this is illegal under whatever basis you believe you can claim that I owe this debt.
Under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (the "FDCPA"), I have the right to request validation of this alleged debt. I demand to know the basis for which you believe I owe this debt. Please be aware that a sworn affidavit from your compliance officer does not constitute an appropriate validation of this debt. If I do not receive this information, or alternatively, a notarized affidavit requesting deletion by all credit reporting agencies of this erroneous information, within 10 days, I will be forced to pursue other avenues to remedy this situation, including filing complaints with the California Attorney General and the California Department of Education.
Please also be aware that I intend to report these violations to the Federal Trade Commission and will request that it investigate the University of Phoenix's violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act ("FCRA"). As I am sure that this is not the University of Phoenix's first attempt at extortion, I am hopeful that the FTC will see the need to protect consumers from this type of blatant illegal activity. Of course, I am also prepared, if necessary, to file a civil action against the University of Phoenix for its violations of the FCRA and all other applicable state and federal statutes.
I expect your response within 10 days.
QUOTE
3. UofP - I wouldn't scan that info to put up here, just to keep your personal info private. Any way to type it in (with identifying stuff redacted)? I don't know if it's 3 lines or 3 pages, so let me know if that's too big of a pain - maybe you can summarize instead?
This is what the printout said:
Date Transaction Description Amount Balance
09-Oct-97 CHRG MKT/541:009795666 990.00 990.00
20-Nov-97 CHRG MGT/512:009795669 990.00 1,980.00
05-Jan-98 DM REXCFA:167037 SJ-Refund 120.00 2,100.00
05-Jan-98 PMT 027280540:252072 4,080.00- 1,980.00-
22-Jan-98 CHRG MGT/532:009795671 990.00 990.00
This is only partial but you probably get the gist. There are about 20 more line items and I'd be happy to PDF it and email it to you.
QUOTE
Another issue that may or may not be relevant. Usually if you drop a class early enough that part of your student loan must be refunded to the lender, you are also early enough that part of your tuition is waived too. Might be worth checking into UofP's early withdrawal refund policy to see what's up with that.
Because the classes are so short, they say if you miss 2 classes you will be automatically be dropped. I disagreed with being dropped because I completed all the work and had the work delivered to the instructor but it didn't matter. That's another issue though. Anyway, if in fact they returned the money to CitiBank, then my student loans should have been credited, and it would make sense that I owe the money on that level.
I'll work on the stuff you mentioned about getting the loan info.
Thanks again!
Hello,
I followed your suggestions Cheech and used the student loan locator and I signed up for a pin to access the information. It will take about 3 days and then I can see what that holds for me.
I also called my lender Citibank. The CSR I spoke with said that in reviewing the notes on my account, it looked like someone from a financial aid office (no school name noted) called and asked whether a refund had been received. At that time, they told the person, "No", that no refund had been received. She said that since I consolidated my loans, a lot of the original information is gone but she initiated an investigation to see if it could be retrieved. She said that it might take up to 10 days to get the info.
Tonight I will work on a letter to UoP which responds to the "non-info" they provided to me. I'll wait to hear from this group before I send it.
Thanks bunches!
I followed your suggestions Cheech and used the student loan locator and I signed up for a pin to access the information. It will take about 3 days and then I can see what that holds for me.
I also called my lender Citibank. The CSR I spoke with said that in reviewing the notes on my account, it looked like someone from a financial aid office (no school name noted) called and asked whether a refund had been received. At that time, they told the person, "No", that no refund had been received. She said that since I consolidated my loans, a lot of the original information is gone but she initiated an investigation to see if it could be retrieved. She said that it might take up to 10 days to get the info.
Tonight I will work on a letter to UoP which responds to the "non-info" they provided to me. I'll wait to hear from this group before I send it.
Thanks bunches!
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