[i][b[u]][b]This is the response I received after pointing out the flaws in her news story.



http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=103...p;nav=menu157_2

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Let me begin by saying your disappointment is quite clear, and for that, I am sorry.



While I believe you raised some issues that are valid, I also believe you missed the point of the story. And whether we delivered that point according to the way your companies/businesses accept credit cards is up for debate.



The point of the story was to show the viewer how easy it is to use someone else's credit card without their permission. While Peter, our producer, had Frances Weller�€™s permission for the report, it clearly demonstrated that had he not had her permission, he could have used the card. Whether the card had my signature or a "flag" to see i.d., the store employees in three out of four stores required neither. However you view that, it's wrong.



We live in precarious times, and to be able to walk in a store and use someone else's credit card without their permission, is dangerous. Credit cards are stolen everyday. The card holder as well as the card issuer should have better protection than what was presented in our report. Honestly, how would you feel if someone stole your credit card and went on a shopping spree much like our producer's?



The report has inspired me to suggest to store employees who do not ask for my i.d. in the future to do so. It's for the businesses' benefit as well as mine.



Additionally, I have had many businesses ask for i-d when i am out using my personal credit card including lowes and walmart just yesterday....so i have to wonder whether if there is some inconsistancy and there is more merchant discretion at play.............additionally, what "good" reason is there for NOT checking id's in this precarious time? especially if merchants are held responsible for stolen goods?



If credit card companies frown on merchants checking ids and merchants are held responsible for stolen merchandise ....it would seem to me that credit card companies are holding merchants "hostage"??? why would you agree to this as a merchant...is seems un fair. in some of the research we did for the series...it was clear some big box stores such as home depot actually dedicate a section of their annual budget to writing off fraudent purchases.



Perhaps the report calls for a follow-up. Perhaps we can point out some of the concerns you raised. But I not cannot make that decision. That will be up to our news director.



I appreciate your comments and feedback.



Genevieve Barker

MY DRIVER'S LICENSE IS A PERMIT TO DRIVE A CAR or TRUCK

IT IS NOT A PERMIT TO USE MY SIGNED CREDIT CARD

Is there some link for the story???

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=103...&nav=menu15

ALREADY DONE HERE...

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=394732

The funny thing is, she seems to assume I am a merchant. (I am not). I have nothing to do with accepting credit cards.

re: deleted posts. Please do not call the reporters and cashiers ugly, demeaning names. Those posts will be deleted when I see them.

Who is "SHE"

How about Incontinentals, repetitive, incessant, often necroposted, non-sequitor, posts about his view of the credit card merchant agreements?

SEE THE "SHE" in red???

(twice)

I asked a simple question...I THOUGHT

Why did you respond to George's post if you had no intention of answering his question?

"She"... is the person who wrote the letter to the OP as quoted in the OP's first post.

I find it rather interesting that you say Tom 'set them straight' when Tom also notes that ID CAN, in fact, be requested. The only prohibition is against conditioning the sale upon such presentation.

Maybe the no-ID nazis ought to spend some time and re-read the Agreements that they hold so sacred...and then proceed to take out of context.

Most merchants who ask for ID will still require it when a customer refuses.

I have encountered a number of merchants who have tried a policy of "ask for ID, but still process transaction if customer refuses to show ID." This just never, ever works. The employees don't get it, and neither do the managers. They end up refusing to process and continuing to require the ID, resulting in additional complaints and violations. Ultimately, they give up and just stop asking for the ID entirely.

Really, I don't get it either. If ID isn't required, why waste everyone's time asking them for it when you are still going to process the transaction anyway without it? It doesn't make much sense.

The point is most people don't like these rules and disagree with them. It is like the person I argued with yesterday about not signing her card. She insisted she would "never" sign her cards, even after I told her she would be liable for all fraud. Simply did not care.

...and she is using a VOID card

I question whether "most" people dislike these rules. I'd bet that if a scientific poll were done from the overall population that most, or at least around half, actually believe ID checking to be doing them a favor. With most of the rest being ambivalent about it.

What amazes me is that so many businesses are willing to write off whatever percentage of the population that has a real problem with it.
Suppose it is only 5-10%, a business willing to write of that percent of customers is really shooting itself in the foot.

IF YOU FEEL REAL SPECIAL BY SHOWING ID...GO FOR IT

My license to drive stays in my wallet that stays in my pocket

I've informed a lot of people I know about this ID requirement being against the acceptance rules. Some people I know think that is stupid, and they should be allowed to ID, etc. Others I know become very interested when they hear it is against the rules. One person who I discussed it with recently said "wow, I'm going to refuse to show it to them next time someone asks for it." No, I did not suggest they do that beforehand.

Pretty much any business ticks off some percentage of their potential customer base no matter what they do. I'd be honestly surprised if this issue alone made a significant dent in that. I'd bet that the bigger issues for businesses are rude employees, customers with a "customer is always right" sense of entitlement, and so on.

No one has really researched it though. It's not on their radar screen. You've got to think that some people think as many of us on this website do, and even a small percentage is significant to a company's bottom line. And it's a relatively simple thing to follow the rules as most businesses do. Somebody really ought to do market research on it.

My license to drive was signed almost 20 years ago (US MAIL RENEWAL)

What is more accurate...the signature on the back of the card that was signed in the past 3 years or a 20 YEAR OLD DRIVER'S LICENSE

ID can't be required as a condition of sale PER CREDIT CARD POLICY

Had they wanted a business to ask for ID why did they put a signature stip on the back of the card...and expect a business to make the sale as easy and quick as possible (one reason they have approvals that take 1 to 5 seconds)...NOT 5 minutes

...as with the HATE WALMART CROWD (think sheep)...some have been told to put CID and give drivers license to protect them...but they are never given the rest of the story

THE CARD IS VOID

THEY CAN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FRAUD CHARGES

Helping with ID THEFT

The 30+ year old cashier now knows where your 15 year old HOTTIE GIRL lives and comes to visit for a date

Not saying all cashiers are bad (very few are)...but you forced the cashier to take your driver's license...NOW HE KNOWS WHERE THAT $2,000 of stuff is going to be in an hour (or less)

...maybe it is not about the current stuff...maybe he/she has a friend that needs to rob some place to get money for drugs...he/she calls their buddy and tells them you are at the store and they have 10 minutes to get in and out

JUST SAYING... (as somebody here says all the time)

I don't even give my address to people I work with (not that I fear them)...I am just a private guy

Some of them know where I live because they took me home because my car was broken...but not everybody knows the exact address

Many know the general area...(many ask because their car is in the shop and need a ride home...and don't want anybody to go out of their way)

The fact that it's not on anybody's radar is probably a pretty good indicator in itself that it's not a huge issue.

I have no doubt that there are others outside CB that think this is important also, though I do think that some here at CB are kidding themselves if they think a relatively smallish group of like-minded people in one place at the same time (read: CB policy forum) are somehow representative of the larger overall population.

It doesn't have to be a large percentage of customers to have an effect on a company's bottom line. Also, most disgruntled customers don't cause a stink. They just take their business (and their dollars) elsewhere and no one ever knows why.

I would not care, as all of my cards are $0 fraud liability(some cards are still $50).

--

From the article:



Why? last time I checked V/MC will issue to anyone over 13.

As far as I know only some DEBIT CARDS are $50

No credit cards are $50 (that was from years ago)

The age verification was due to the video game requiring the purchaser to be a certain age.

HOW DOES ONE PROVE THEY ARE 13



For that matter how does one PROVE how old they are before they get a DRIVER'S LICENSE

oh yay...more cut and paste without meaningful comment from continental. At least this time it was not a bump multiple months after the fact...

Not gonna' get an ID from the DMV so I can buy a PG13 movie

Simply call 1-800-VISA-911, press zero twice, and ask to file an "incident report" regarding a merchant violation/merchant who required ID. Crooked merchants shape-up quickly to avoid suspension. Make sure your community is 100% violation-free.

It is NOT a violation to ask for ID. The merchant agreements only speak to conditioning a sale upon presentation of ID. As much as you keep talking to yourself, it would seem that such a nuance might FINALLY have sunk in...

..Visa believes merchants SHOULD NOT ASK for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. So if you are ever asked for ID, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911 to ensure the practice is stopped at once.

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or photo ID.

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement. The contract MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577 or call 1-800-300-3069. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine. You may also report violations online:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that that issued your Visa card or call 1-800-VISA-911.

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

..Visa believes merchants SHOULD NOT ASK for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. So if you are ever asked for ID, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911 to ensure the practice is stopped at once.

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or photo ID.

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement. The contract MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577 or call 1-800-300-3069. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine. You may also report violations online:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that that issued your Visa card or call 1-800-VISA-911.

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

You really ought to go re-read your precious manual...specifically Chapter 5, page 7, which encompasses a section encaptioned Additional Cardholder Information (Section 5-6-3).

But to save you the time (and maybe give yourself new material to continuously bump posts with):


NOTHING in that section says that a merchant cannot make a request for ID. It simply outlines that the sale may not be refused absent the showing of ID.

Against MasterCard Terms to ask if a signed card is presented. Call their customer service center. 1-636-722-6100.

So their customer service center trumps the manual? I think not...

And what I quoted in the earlier post comes directly from the MasterCard site AND the manual.

Ask all you want for ID...ask till the cows come home for all I care

You get to back down I don't

Exactly. ALWAYS report - 1-800-VISA-911.


Well worth the minimal effort.. Make sure your community is 100% violation-free.

Where does it say in the MasterCard manual that they CAN ask on a signed card? It doesn't...

Just like it doesn't say they can't.

Hence the call for clarification.

Visa is another story- they spell it out... they can ask (technically they are only to ask on unsigned cards), they are discouraged from doing so by Visa (technically they are supposed to call for authorization on unsigned cards), and they cannot refuse to process because a cardholder refuses to show ID.

That which is not prohibited is allowed.

Seriously, do you really need to be told what you can do?

THEY CAN "ASK" TILL THE COWS COME HOME

I say no...THEY back off

ID can not be ask for as a "CONDITION OF SALE" for signed credit cards

Have you shown ID on an internet sale or by mail or over the phone sale lately???

WHY SHOW IT IN PERSON...what is different???