http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/your-mon...;ref=your-money

Bottom line: Too risky.

Id rather buy a chevy than any import.

WHY NOT BUY A TOYOTA MADE IN USA?

because Chevy is better

not in my book. but I will buy a volt if it turns out as nice as I've read.

in my book it is. toyota just doesnt make any cars that appeal to me. their truck is good but nothing like an F150 or a Ram truck. but when it comes to chevy toyota has nothing that compares to a malibu or a vette or a camaro.

I don't need a sports car so the vette and camaro are out for me. I had a Mailbu a couple years ago for a rental and it drove like a water buffalo.

a camry has no pickup at all. it cant even get out of its own way. I literally thought when I was driving it up the grapevine I was going to have to get out and push that POS. I never have to worry about it in a malibu or my impala or soon to be my camaro.

I wouldn't touch a GM or Chrysler vehicle with a 10-foot pole.

But if you have a fetish for domestic-branded cars, please by all means buy a Ford. They are not sucking at the government teat.

so i guess that means you wouldnt be buying any foreign jobs either since all those companies have been on the government teat for decades now.

why do I have a desire for ice cream or a Dolly Parton movie right now?

Yes everyone please go out an buy Fords so I can make more money on the stock

If GM disappears the feds have already announced they'll cover the warranties.
What happens if Toyota or one of the other import brands disappear? You will find out what Daewoo owners already know- that nobody honors the warranties and parts are nearly impossible to get. (Daewoo folded in 2002, parts did not become available in the US again until 2005)
That happening is not exactly an impossibility, particularly if one of the big 3 go under first.

whats so risky? if anything its far safer now than before. and the cars are much safer than any import to begin with.

Well no, I'm not talking about the occasional research tax credit or whatever you might be imagining, I'm referring to the fact that GM and Chrysler both spectacularly failed as businesses in their own home markets, and operate today ONLY because of unprecedented multi-billion dollar taxpayer bailouts to continue to stay in business. Nothing remotely on that scale has ever happened with any other car company in the world, unless you count the first Chrysler bailout in the 1980s -- something that we clearly see now to have been a horrible mistake.

The fact is that for now and in the future the continued existence of GM dealers and GM warranty service is 100% dependent on politicians choosing to prop them up. Not a bet I'd make.

Im not talking about the occasional tax credit either. Im talking about foreign governments subsidizing foreign companies to the tune of billions every single year. Japan and Germany as well as Korea now have been doing it for decades. No one remembers the fact that Kia and Hyundai went bankrupt in the 90s and were supported by the Seoul government till they got back on their feet and even now they are being supported by them. As far as buying a GM car or even a Chrysler product I wouldnt have a problem at all since in my opinion they are superior to the japanese product and far more comfortable. No one remembers what happened when Daewoo or Fiat left the country. If you wanted warranty work done you were SOL. That wouldnt happen with GM or Chrysler.


While we are at it since we dont want to support the domestics lets take away the billions that the imports are getting by having their factories here. All the state governments are subsidizing them as we speak so we should end them as well.

Sorry, I follow the industry and I've not seen evidence that the major Japanese or European car makers get billions a year in subsidies. And, again, no actual government participation in the automotive industry is anything like the tens of billions we are simply outright squandering on GM. And what makes it worse is that people following this industry could see it all coming for years, long before the credit crunch. GM deserves to die.

you evidently have never lived in germany. Having lived there myself for 5 years Ive witnessed it firsthand. As far as the Japanese is concerned they still are carrying toyota and honda as far as paying for medical insurance for their employees like they do the rest of their citizens unlike GM or Chrysler do. We wont even go there on pensions or any other benefits. when toyota almost went bankrupt many years ago it was the japanese government who bailed them out just like the US did with chrysler back in the early 80s. Just like Korea did with Hyundai and Kia did in the 90s.

I guess you would need to drive an 08-09

need is not the word LOL.

but if there has been an improvement, good.

I plan on driving my junker a few more years.

maybe then the chevy volt will be perfected.

About the Malibu:- I rented one a few months ago and did not find anything wrong with it. It was adequate as a rental. But it certainly cannot compare to a Camry - I owned a 2005 V6 SE and it certainly did not lack power. And I will not be selling my Lexus and running to buy a Malibu anytime soon.

When I said "too risky", I meant the reliance on government for warranty enforcement. There is also a grave danger of the resale values going into the toilet.

when oldsmobile went away their resale values didnt drop at all. I dont think pontiac will drop either.

I am not looking to resell my car at all.. by the time it's ready to go ..it will be at that age where it doesn't matter what brand it is.. it will be a $1000-$1500 car (LOL)

So I don't care at all what resale value is when I buy a car, I look for value.
I drive my cars virtually forever... at least compared to a lot of people I know that trade up every few years...

No one is asking anyone to sell their Lexus and run to a Malibu.
That would be utterly ridiculous, that would be like telling me to sell my Malibu and run to a Lexus.

I am not going to convince anyone to drive a car just because *I* like it, that's what a car salesman is paid to do.

Frankly these threads just beat a dead horse. People are gonna drive what they like. That is all there is to it.

yup. personally for a lexus id rather save the money and buy a caddy and ride in much more comfort. it may be a grandpa car but id be pimpin in it.

To each his own. Nothing wrong with a Cadillac. But I will never trade the comfort of my Lexus for a Caddy. I am spoiled - No caddy has the creature comforts and safety features of my Lexus. I don't think any Cadillac offers a pre collision system yet and the Navigation system is also subpar.

i think otherwise lol

I understand. But while Olds went away, GM was still there. Here we are talking about GM's bankruptcy, which is a problem of a higher magnitude in the minds of most customers. I definitely think the resale values will trend lower.

i dont think so.. when hyundai went bk theirs didnt go anywhere they already sucked as GM does right now.

Could be. But it's a risk that most customers will not be willing to take.

BTW, did you hear about the concessions that UAW and CAW made for Chrysler? Soon GM and Ford will be asking for similar concessions as well.

Hi, I drove an 09 Malibu for 2 weeks and it drove like a boat compared to my 01 Altima(RIP)

Interesting thought crossed my mind.. wonder what will happen to NUMMI
in California if GM goes belly-up.. they build a fair number of Toyotas sold
in the US (NUMMI is New United Motor Manufacturing Inc, and is owned
jointly by GM and Toyota.. they used to build the "new" chevy Nova and
Geo's that were basically reskinned Corollas). They currently build Corollas,
Toyota trucks, and the Pontiac Vibe. I would guess with Pontiac going down,
they'll just be building Toyotas for some time, but I wonder if GM will bail on
it entirely...

I drove an 01 Sentra and its favorite place to be was broke down on the side of the road. So happy I got rid of that turd.

I suspect it'll probably go under. Toyota has been looking for reasons to get out of that deal for several years anyway. They have excess capacity right now, GM's stumbling would give Toyota a workable reason to pull out.

Interesting read. I've had the opportunity to drive a car from nearly every country due to my family's love for trading vehicles every two years. We stopped that when we started buying German cars. My DD, in fact, is a 22 year old Audi. Behind Germans, I'd drive an American. The only Japanese car worth its weight is Subaru....they make a damn good car. Too bad they don't use the EJ22 anymore, though.

Don't even get me started on Lexus. We have a 2003 GS300 in the garage with 37K miles. You can have it. Problems and all. Toyota/Lexus is the Dodge of Japan in my eyes. Creature comforts? There are none. Seriously...$41K and it doesn't have heated seats, premium sound, or Xenon headlamps? My 1987 Audi has heated seats! And where did Toyota get their HVAC systems anyway? If it's below 40degrees outside, the windows fog up and WILL NOT defog again. Get into my Audi, or my mom's Audi, press "auto" and the windows are cleared in a few seconds. Japanese cars haven't yet figured out the small details that differentiate the mediocre from the good. They're planted firmly on mediocre.

I'd gladly drive a Pontiac or Ford over a Lexus/Toyota. Any day of the week.

LOL, how can one expect to be taken seriously after statements like that.

very easily because Lexus and Toyota are not that great.

Both Lexus and Toyota are among the most reliable cars ever built. Pontiac is being shut down as we speak. Apparently most of the public disagrees with you.

Funny is that why Toyota is losing money hand over fist right now? They already cut their workforce to the bone and are still losing billions. As far as reliable I see more toyotas broke down on the side of the road than I do GM or Ford for that matter.

Losing money and bankruptcy are not the same. And seriously, your anecdotal evidence is not borne out by reliability ratings.

this says something else.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti.../903189970/1078

In 2006 didn't Toyota recall more cars than the big three combined?


How reliable.

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You know how to spot the newbies in Michigan, don't you?


They're the guys with the plow blade on the Toyota truck.


We went through 300" of snow season after season with the F250's and they just kept working. The Toyotas had a nasty habit of dumping their front drivetrain alongside the road.

In 2006 and 2007 they also made more money than the big 3 combined. And also had higher market value than the big 3 combined. Recalls are down since then.

The math really isn't comparable since the Japanese government picks up the tab for some of the things that cost Detroit the most.

They suck!!!!!!

oh

and I'm still recovering from all the snow

I agree, the math is not comparable. But American companies started with tremendous advantages as well, like a large home market, a 100 year heritage and no trade barriers to selling locally. But Toyota persevered and kept on improving their product till their quality was very high. Like every other large company they have had hiccups - but their core principles have large remained intact - Long term vision, high quality and Kaizen.

The third generation Prius is almost here and the Plug in will be out soon. Massive investments in R and D bring their own reward.