I want to throw a real quick preface statement out here that may stand in the face of a lot of people with timeshare experience. They're not ALL bad. I own three of them, and one of them (Westin St. John), has been absolutely wonderful to work with in EVERY aspect, including even the time when I was having financial difficulties and thought I may end up having to deed it back to them. Fortunately, that never happened. Now, my experience with the OTHER company is VASTLY different, and I would like to know if anyone here has any experience deail with this situation, or even this company in particular, and any suggestions of a course of action. I'll try to break it down succinctly.
WHO THEY ARE: As I said, I own three of these. Apart from the aforemetnioned Westin St John, with whom I have NO issues whatsoever, the other two properties I own are Tahiti Village in Las Vegas, and The Sands of Kahana on Kahana Beach, Naui, HI. The latter I actually just bought from a foreclosure sale while I was in Maui. The former, Tahiti Village, I purchased a few years ago while in Las Vegas. Both of those properties are operated by Consoidated Resorts Managemetn, who has also operated as Soleil Management. They manage the facilities as well as service the mortgage. The property / mortgage I have the gripe with is the Tahiti Village mortgage. That mortgage, while serviced by Consolidated Resorts, is actually owned by GMAC.
SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? The problem, frankly is that I have had to re-evaluate my financial position as various economic factors have changed over the past three years. While I'm not broke or even badly in debt at this point, I find that I can no longer sanction paying $650/month @ 16.9% interest for a vacatio property (Tahiti Village) when that kind of money could be put to better use, not the least of which is planning for the future to stave off potential unemployment. Let me point out here that I'm not trying to "cut and run", but rather am simply making a busines decision to protect my own best interests and to ensure my ongoing ability to meet my financial obligations to ALL of my creditors.
WHAT DO I WANT? Before this loan ever even became delinquent, I advised Tahiti Village (Cosolidated) that I was beginning to feel economic pressure and would like them to consider restructuring my mortgage to offer a more favorable interest rate. My concern was that if I continue to pay $650 / month for this thing, that I will not have adequate savings to stave off what a likely and potentially long standing stint of unemployment should things get any worse in my industry. I'm tryign to do the fiscally responsible thing here. I asked them to consider a lower interest rate on the basis that not only would say a $400 payment (acheive by say an interest rate of 10% instead of 17%, sitll a handsome return on investment in thsi market.) be more affordable now, it would also be easier for me to carry through a period of unemployment than would a $650 payment. In short, I was advised this wasn't possible at the time, and likely wouldn't be unless the loan were more seriously in default (as a side note here, it kills me when an honorable person approaches a creditor in a forthright manner and says "hey, I'm treading water here and my legs are getting tired... I'm not a good swimmer, do you have a life vest?" and the creditor basically says, "Well, yes but I'm going to give it to you unless you really start to drown." First, IMHO it's unethical, and at the very least, it's just mean-spirited to be that way.) Anyway... So I have basically been forced by the circumstances to choose to default on my payments. I don't really want to, although to struggle to make them would, according ot them, basically be prolonging the inevitable, so I'm now due for two, nearly three, and refusing to pay more until I get some kind of consideration on this loan.
WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW? Well, in the course of one of my conversations with Consolidated a couple of months ago, I learned that GMAC actually holds the paper on this loan. It was a little hard frinding a phone number to reach them, but hwne I did, I asked to speak with someon ein their workout department to try and get the ball rolling on some sort of loan modification. The man who I spoke with though said that the workout department wouldn't speak with me, because my loan was not in foreclosure. When I explained my position on this to him, his statement was "Sir, you are trying to be proactive in a reactive business." What that a compliment? Was thi his way of telling me that his company doesn't know their butt from a hole in the ground? Alas, I digress. So, I am now forced to deal with Consolidated Resore Mangement (the loan servicer) for th etime being. At first, the collection phone calls were mildly annoying. Anything from the inceasant "Hello, this is an important attempt to contact you regarding your Tahiti Village loan... Please call us back at 1-800....." WHY do they call me asking me to call them BACK? Why not just CALL ME? Anyway, I'd get that call about once a day for a while. As things progressed though, their attempts heated up. The automated "plase call us" message gave way to a live person calling me. It started out once a day on my home phone, but has since grown to numerous calls and messages on the home phone and also my cell phone, and even one little round of calls at work (more on that in a minute.) Yesterday, I received three phone calls. One from the power dialer asking me to call them back, and two live calls fro representatives, both claiming they had no idea I'd already been called. Friday evening they called twice, once around 4:30 in the afternoon and again around 7:00. The 7:00 call had me so involved that I forgot for a few minutes that I had the grill igniter burning in the charcoal outside and nearly set my house on fire (amazing how 20 minutes can get away from you when someone really has you fired up.) Today (Sunday) I've received four phone calls so far. One automated message, and then three live calls from very strong collectors. The first this morning I dismissed with an affirmative but polite request to stop calling me every frickin' day. The second call, having advised them numerous times previous to absolutely NOT call more than once a day simply yielded the "F-off and stop calling me" dismissal. *U really hate getting that way) and the third was a rather strong conversation with a fairly aggressive colelctor who basically is trying to make me feel guilty since I signed a contract and holding all the terrible things they'll due to my credit over my head if I don't pay.
MY QUESTIONS ON THIS: I have several of them. It's like a potpourri at this point, so take your pick of what you can answer, and thanks for taking the time to read my post.
1. What's the deal already with the servicing of these loans? Okay, I understand how mortgages and the secondary market works. What I mean is, if I have a wothless piece of dirt in the dessert to sell to John, and John is willing to pay me say $50,000 for it, I can finance him over time. I just take the deed if / when he doesn't pay, keep his money, and sell it to the next sucker who comes along. Why would GMAC then loan YOU the money to buy dirt that both GMAC and I know is WORTHLESS (or at the vearly least worth SUBSTANTIALLY less than the face value of the note)? Even at 17% interest, they'll have to collect a LOT of those payments to even receover the principlal, and since they give those timeshare loans out to anyone, GMAC must get one HELL of a discount to buy that note from Consolidated, who originates it (thus allowing Consolidated to collect a NICE pile of money for the transfer) and then (coincidentally, I'm sure) Consolidated ends up servicing the loan. I'm not accusing anyone of anything out and out ILLEGAL here, but this all jsut looks real dirty to me. NO LONDER will loan money or refinance a timeshare on any kind of loan secured by its deed, which says to me kenders think they're WORTHLESS. So what's in it for GMAC (the investor) when they back the paper on a no-look mortgage? It seems to me like, faceed with the prospect of getting back a $35,000 piece of paper, that GMAC would be willing to consider a reduction from 17% to 10% in terest. After all, that's a decent return on the money, and sure as hell beats getting the deed back.
2. Granted, collectors say anything and everything to justify their position. When I informed the caller today that under the FCRA they are not allowed to call me more than once a day, and to pleas stop, her response was that I don't know my laws very well, that "we are a private company sir", and basically suggesting that collectio nlaws don't apply to them since they're not a collection agency. Anyone have any facts on this? It seems like there must b esome guideline here that constitutes harassment. To be fair and balanced, I get it... I owe them money, and I don't expect them to just forget about it. But to call... Even once a day, EVERY SINGLE DAY of the week, seven days a week, to ME at least... That seems more a little like just trying to annoy someone to the point of submission. Where I grew up, that's harassment. I owe you money, you've made your point, now let's be respectful of one another. Anyone have any experience with this? Any experience specifically related to orignal holders of the debt (as opposed to collection agencies?) Any timeshare experience or special stips related to the collection of a mortgage?
3. Even though I've overpaid for this timeshare (you always overpay for them), I don't want to lose it... well, not really.. Ironically, my experience with these guys has been so unpleasant that I now find myself questioning whether I really want to continue to do business with them at all. Anyway, assuming for the moment that I still want to keep the thing, Anyone have any experience with getting a loan on one of these things modified or getting it refinanced? I want a refinance of it, not a conventional loan, or else I'll lose the tax deductibility of the interest. Of course, that wouldn't matter if the interest rate were very low, but borrowing $35K in this economy unsecured and getting a good rate for it is not very likely.
4. One of the things I've considered (reluctantly, as I said I want to keep it) is a deed-in-lieu. This is actually an option that was offered to me at one point (but discouraged) by my other timeshare, the Westin St John. They didn't want me to deed it, but said if it came down ot it, they would take back the dded and credit my principal toward a new, future purchase (very reasonable of them, I thought). I've discused the possibility of this with Consolidated, that as I cannot afford these payments on an ongoing basis, then perhaps I shoudl just give the property back. Of course, they start out by reminding me of all the "equity" that I have in the property-- Equity that I'll never see of course, they know, I know it-- Stop insulting my intelligence. Anyway, I discussed this with them, and they have repeatedly INSISTED that that a DIL is not an option. Again, to play both sided, I understand that they're not in the business of taking back deeds, but collecting payments. And, while it's their right to foreclose a loan for non-payment, aren't there any kind of provisions out there for the debtor who is saying, "No, WAIT! You don't have to get a judgement against me... I'll just sign the deed!" They pressure you into buying this thing, then hold a gun to your head if you try and back out 73 hours after you sign on the line. Miss a few payments and they foreclose on it, get a judgement against you, WRECK your credit, and it looks no different than a "real" foreclosure (like on yoru home) to perspective lenders, especailly for a home mortgage. That all seems so mean-spirited and serves no purpose, other than to get revenge and try to force you into paying not only a high price for a high-pressure sale, but also a sky-high interest rate with no consideration whatsoever. Are there any consumer laws that can be used to MY advantage here?
The collection calls have become an intolerable nuisance. One day, a more aggressive collector called me at work. When he got my Audix, he just transferred himself to some random extension within the company. When got an answer, he asked the peson if they knew me. Of course, they didn't but he left a message along the lines of "Well, my name is Mr Raff. Would you please ask him to give his mortgage comapny a call?" Of course, he doesn't out and out SAY "this guy owes us money", he just makes it abundantly clear. Basically trying to shame me into paying. He did this a few times thoughout the day, and six strangers visited my desk and dropped off a note that some fellow from a mortgage company was tyring to reach me. That's not a reasonable attemtp to contact me, that's just intimidation.
I've dealt with some credit problems in the past and, in fact have received some helpful tips from these forums in years past. I've never quite dealt with something like this, and these people just seemed determined to not only get their money, but frankly to get it from me at any cost. It's unfair, unreasonable, unethical, immoral, and I would think in some respects, ILLEGAL. I know I need to start documenting some of this stuff. Fortunately, my Comcast phone service keeps an online log of all inbound and outbound calls, shows who / when and if they were answered or transferred to voicemail. I know the first thing that they usually say when dealing with problem collectors is "stay off the phone." Up to this point, I've wanted to be cooperative and forthright with them. I've wanted to be easy to reach and to work something out that is mutually beneficial and serves the interests of all parties. I've now comed to the realization that they're apparently incapable of reason, so unless advised differently, I'm not planning on accepting any other phone calls, and will conduct further correspondence with them only in writing. Any suggestions for accomplishing this would be greatly appreciated. If I have to, I default and let them take it in foreclosure, but that's not what I want. I just want a fair interest rate. Thanks so much in adance for your feedback.
-- Jim