My friend Laurie who posts on here as well (but is not at her puter right now) received a letter today from her homeowners association "intent to lein and foreclose" for $300.. they have tacked on a $129 collection fee, plus interest and other charges...

Her question to you guys is - can the HOA actually foreclose her? She wants to pay the past due but finds it ridiculous to have a $129 collection fee when it is just a certified letter...

Thoughts?

Depends on her state. Short answer: HOA's can foreclose due to unpaid fees.

Thanks..

We are in Cali

A california hoa can do one of the following :

1. Nonjudicial foreclosure - which for better or worse tends to be worthless due to the redemption rights and that one is likely owes more on the property than it is worth. The hoa is likely to get the property and waits for the mortgage to complete its foreclosure.

2. Judicial foreclosure - which in my opinion is a WASTE OF HOAS MONEY as the lawyer is going to get paid and while the hoa gets a judgment allowing a foreclosure tends to be worthless as more is owed on the property than it is worth. The hoa gets a judgment which may or may not be collectable

3. Small claims court - A select (and I think the best approach) few California hoas simply go to small claims court and get a judgment. While the judgment may not be collectable, it is most likely to be the best approach as neither the homeowner and the hoa is looking at attorney's or trustee's fees in the thousand of dollars. While this hoa treasurer is not too ecstatic about high delinquency rates those are the facts of life and simply are a cost of business. The problem with small claims court is that you need a volunteer from the hoa willing to make trips down to court.

I'm kind of here, I left my glasses at home and it's hard for me to read. 8-|

The letter itself said it was sent certified first class, but the envelope was NOT certified and there was no tracking information on it. We have a community type mailbox, so what's to say that our neighbors received the letter and never gave it to us? I know it's unlikely, but it's the fact of the matter. We fully intend on paying them what we owe, plus interest and late fees, but a $129 collection fee when they can't even send a letter correctly?! Give me a break!

The $129 collection fee seems steep but could be quite legal. I would pay the back hoa dues along with the $129 and if you don't feel the $129 is legitimate then argue it over in small claims court.

I guess they realized their mistake and send the letters again CMRRR and they arrived Saturday. We also got our monthly "bill" on Friday, with a balance that showed $486. If you include February, we're 4 months behind with them, so the balance should only be $464 ($106/mo. + $10 late fee/mo.) or less, because we've sent them a few partial payments, but so be it. The lein letter seems off on their amounts too. They show $320 as the assessment, $125 for collection costs, $3.30 Interest-Delinquency (ok, I can understand that), and $50 in late fees. Well, the late fees are $10/month and we were only 3 months behind. *sigh* The numbers seem off to me, but oh well, I just want to pay what I owe and be done with it.

I'm sending a check today, CMRRR for the $508.30 requested on the Lien letter. I wrote paid in full on the check.

My question now...do I send an attached letter, and if so, what should it say? A copy of their letter? My February bill? All of the above? Just not sure what to do. I kind of want something back from them acknowleding that they're paid in full, but maybe if I keep copies of everything, the CMRRR will take care of that? Well, actually what I really want is a detailed line by line account summary, because DH has tossed some of the HOA bills. *GRR*

Writing "paid in full" on a check in California has no legal significance. The Association can cash the check and not consider the account paid in full. I would pay the amount claimed to be owed and then ask for an accounting. If the Association has "its act together" then they will be more than happy to provide an accounting. The Davis Sterling Act is pretty specific with regards to Association's responsibility in Assessment collection. If your Association has a professional bookkeeper taking care of the collections then most likely the amount claimed to be owed is accurate.

"Test before you guess". Send the check with a letter CMRRR asking for an accounting. $125 collection fee for 4 month arreages of Association dues is probably reasonable.

As a President of a HOA I can tell you why it's 129.00 they probably used an attorney you are not paying the HOA but the attorney they stay away from collection agency's because they take a cut and if you don't pay and they have to foreclose they will use the same attorney I would go to the board meeting and plead your case

she already paid it and it's fine... she paid the full amount 500 something.. it's early and only 1 cup of coffee so I can't remember exacts lol

Yes, we paid the entire balance $508.30

It took them almost a month to cash the check, but they finally did it.

Now, I have another question. The letter we received was dated February 18th, which would have included our February payment (assessed on 1st, late on the 15th), and now they're saying that we haven't paid February. DH and I are in the process of writing a letter asking for a line by line account detail, but we want to make sure we're not throwing ourselves under the bus on this one. According to OUR records (which aren't that fantastic ) the payment we made would bring our balance current, leaving us with the March HOA payment.

Any tips on what this letter should say so we don't get another lien letter (Although their check is still pending for Feb & Mar)?

Are you saying that you paid your FEB with the 508 you owed but they are saying you owe feb or you were late on you Feb you post is kind of confusing.

Have you read your CCR's? if not I would suggest doing that before you do anything, just like credit repair know the rules HOA's break them too it wasn't till I read mine got involved did things change now I am HOA President.

Our Feb pmt was included in the 508. The lein letter was dated Feb 18th, received CMRRR on the 21st. Naturally, the payment was due on the 1st and late on the 15th.

Sorry, I meant the check is pending for the March & April pmts.

Test before you guess.

Gather up all the records and simply determine the amount paid versus the amount alleged to be owed.

I am going to state my (while I believe that I am pretty objective but I leave that for others to determine) belief based as a HOA President/Treasurer who at least from my point of view "not on a power trip" but looking at "figuring out how to pay the bills"

IF your hoa hires a professional bookkeeper or accountant to handle the billing (which mine does) then getting an accounting should be pretty straightforward.

With regards to collection (i.e. attorneys) fees, they might be "excessive" but unfortunately NOT all hoas have people that can volunteer to keep all costs down. In California, hoas can go to small claims court but that requires a board member to VOLUNTEER his time to "get the job done". If your hoa is among the fortunate few that have volunteers "to parcel work out" (i.e. I don't have problem doing paperwork but the handymen volunteers who claim that I should not be given a screwdriver to do repairs ...) then your collection costs might be "reasonable" being the small claims court fees. Otherwise, you could be looking at some substantial attorneys fees.

From the hoa prespective, many are in serious financial troubles with unpaid hoa dues. Raising hoa dues in "good times" was always a "tough sale" but I was always able to get "dues increases through" and quite frankly surprised that I wasn't lynched but for some reason that I still don't understand my fellow members think that I know what I am doing.

They are putting a lien on your property? Once you pay it they have to release it so that wasn't smart but in these tough times I guess we would do that, altough we have the power to shut water off since the HOA pays for it. We do that only after 3 months and have been ignored after sending a 5 day water shut off . If you call in we will make arrangements not to shut off if not we require the whole amount plus water shut off fee's I see both sides of this and have been on both sides. If they have a management company go down and talk to the manager but the best thing is to read the CCR and go to the board meetings, what ever you don't complain about anything that is going on in the community , unless you go to the meeting every month the board ,members hate that, as you would know the reasons why if you participated in the community IE board meetings. stepping off the box now.

DH is reading the CC&R's, I'm stupid when it comes to the legal jargon. Both DH and I are unable to make board meetings because they start between 5-5:30 PM. I get off work at 4:30 and have a 2 hour commute, and no, I'm not trying to make excuses.

We sent a letter with our April payment saying that we needed them to show us how in the h3ll they think we owe money. USPS shows it was delivered yesterday, so hopefully they send us something soon. I'm a little ticked, I sent it from a post office that is probably 2 miles away from the PO Box it was sent to. They didn't pick it up until yesterday (showed attempted on the 15th) and I have that feeling they're going to ask for a late payment

Why at 430? Seems strange most people don't even get off till 5 that makes me suspect of their motives as far as being a open meeting no one there they can do what they want, we start ours at 7. Anyway I would request copies of the minutes of the board meeting, now you won't able to request a copy of any minutes that were done in executive session but I would ask for those only pertaining to you, you may not get those but you can at least ask and then see what is going on concerning your community try to get as involved as you can

I think what they send us is minutes, I'd have to check at home (it's either minutes or an agenda). The only thing that we've seen as far as discussion is the postponement of the community park, fire station, and saying that they're going to raise our dues in July. Oh, and saying that they didn't get enough votes for board members, so they have to do another election.

I REALLY don't like the way the association and/or management company is running the community, and honestly, I would like to vote them out. CC&R's state that they need a 90% yes vote to get them out and unfortunately, I don't think we'd be able to get the entire community to vote; even if it meant saving them some $. I know the VP or Treasurer (can't keep track) is a homeowner in the community and works for the builder. The management company and the builder are all out of the same parent company. Seems like they're hitting that ethical boundary with that one.

A lot of this is just turning into venting now, sorry... no more lien letter, just the aftermath.

It's OK to vent PM me if you have questions concerning the HOA I will try to answer them for you if this a new community and is still under the builder then I would say that is a conflict of interest and he should not be allowed on the board at very least not have voting rights usually the builder is involved for a couple of years after the final house is built then again check your CC&R's

I could be way off here but the "lien" may only include the past due balance. Anything they would sue on is the balance owed up until that point - the next month's billing or going forward I would assume is totally separate from the lien amount, so maybe that is where the Feb payment came in. They weren't suing for Feb. Could it be like municipal liens, i.e. water, sewer, etc. where the prior year's arrearage are often put up as liens and that is the amount that must be paid to avoid or remove the actual lien. The current year's arrearage aren't sued for until the next year.