http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retire...ng-wealth_N.htm

From the article:

WOW! Now there's some brand new news. And there is no "if" they are right. Logically and historically, this is a given.

This has been told time and again in no uncertain terms since at least back in the 70's when the country's population and face was roughly two-thirds of what it is now, looked much different and was still solvent. Anytime that you hear code like post-Hart Cellar Act immigration, loss of American manufacturing base, national healthcare, outsourcing, inflation, poor service, etc., what it means is that YOU are not likely to have the lifestyle that you were expecting since all of these issues are becoming the sum of the American standard of living. Just for kicks, try throwing in capital investment in technology production and see what country comes up quickest. Where are all of those high-dollar state of the art factories that put together tomorrow's technologies being built, and who's brains are building them? America? Not by a long shot. What is meant by "plan to worker harder, longer and with decreasing pay" is essentially prepare to be pulled further downward as we are immersed in a global economy where the rules are no longer traditional American rules, but something much more familiar to those who have studied feudalism. Sure, we may have plenty of toys and other crap as a matter of technological advancement, but what we really need has been progressively and surreptitiously sucked out for sometime now. Our country is not as strong as many think.

Where do I see future retirement? In owning commodity based business, real estate and foreign properties and utilities. 401s not cutting it isn't exactly new news either. In fact, I've already bet good money that this will become more obvious over the next 5yrs as mutual funds investors who don't see it coming get slapped around. This is just one article. There will be a lot more....and hopefully, this tendency to candycoat everything will subside somewhat. What "we" need is real data and a reassessment of what American means. This ain't no fleemarket despite the current attitudes of our leaders, it's a republic. A republic is only as strong as it's citizen's bank accounts. Right now, those accounts are largely holding IOUs.

I think you need to lay off the caffeine. Kid.

Can someone please post some links that portray good news, like this one? I have to work till midnight, the Laker game is not helping and all this bad news about the economy is a depressing way to start a weekend.

How about a look at just a few things that we poor, miserable, impoverished non-factory-working moderns use everyday but ungratefully take for granted, things that were completely unobtainable to people just like us a generation ago (a time Caffeinekid apparently fancies everyone lived a life of indulgent wealth and leisure).

iPods
Cell phones!
Personal computers!
Notebook computers!
Handheld Computers!
Internet Access!
Beautiful entry-level cars with arctic-blast air conditioners, anti-lock brakes, and tire pressure monitoring systems!
Seven-dollar stock trades!
Pro Cheerleader websites!


I could go on....

Thank you, kind sir.

The cheerleaders are hot, I just rechecked my core retirement accounts and the money is still there, I can still see the Pacific Ocean from my window (albeit a small sliver), the new gay marriage ruling will lead a flood of marriages and boost the economy, the Lakers are winning....the list goes on? Why are people depressed?

Glad to help:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commer...he-economy.html

Thanks, Radi8.

I knew there was good news out there :-)

Suppose we planned a big recession and nobody showed up?

Believe it or not, I am an optimist (I have to be as a business owner ) and certainly no democrat, so my points are not the usual lefty stuff. And news is neither bad nor good, it is just information that has to be disseminated with a large degree of suspicion. What YOU do with that information is up to you. Me? I choose to comment or expand on it occassionally and frankly have gotten the same typical responses for about two decades now from people who offer no real counter-arguments, but rather the same old "lay off of the caffeine" or conspiracy comments. In the meantime, things pan out as predicted...or should I say extrapolated from history, while those "comments" add little. The interpretations may not be nice and cozy, but they are real and it would be wise to ponder them. Nothing I have posted is negative or flaky, but rather a way of viewing things that is not translated into the newspeak of our modern cumbaya PC culture of fuzzy bunnies and hip thugs.

Given the information that I have, I have decided that an extended recession and quite possibly a depression is a given. I see no indicators to the contrary and it has been a long time in the making. Just for starters, think about the immense impact that fractional reserve banking has had on industry growth over the last 100ys. Without it, industry would be nowhere near where it is today. In essence, the world economy is a house of cards that depends almost entirely on a corrupt and unsustainable form of usury. This is the sole reason that business has to grow to survive. This can be taken to the national level as well. America has seen it's apex and is on the decline. Rome had the very same problems before it's collapse. There is really no doubt about this and it cannot be changed so long as people are content with their foreign made crap and toys that allegedly make our lives so much better. Sure, I like podcasting, cell phones and laptop computers, but I also remember things before our culture was saturated with all of this junk (including the www), and things were indeed better in a lot of ways. All of those "great" things that were listed by Kevin20 are minor in the greater scope of things and have come with a price as all things do.

If you want "good" news, all you have to do is google. But no, 401Ks are not a sure thing and the Dow isn't looking so great despite being over 12K once real inflation is figured into the equation, yet strangely this isn't just put out there as it should be. Instead it is incrementally released in an article here and there.

People have been dismissing you as an unsophisticated conspiracy-theorist for 20 years? I would never have guessed.

Please use your spell checker before posting. And please, paragraph more. Try to summarize in a more brief format. Then, others will grasp what big point you want to make here.

No. That's just the usual response from some people who would rather not spend the time doing the research for themselves in order to have any real argument against the points made. If I've posted something that is false, feel free to specify.

And so far as being unsophisticated goes- Thanks. Why convolute things?

When I post articles like these it is up to fellow board members to take it negative or positive. I think all you can do is learn from the experiences from the people in these articles. Caffeine-your not a democrat you need to jump ship quickly Go Spurs!

The economy sucks
the world is coming to an end
my pool pump quit on me

Haven't we seen this before, America has been through many economic downturns before and has recovered well each time. The media is all about hype. BTW my Trowe-Price New Era fund has returned 16% YTD, Real estate fund 11%YTD,and Latin America fund 13% YTD, it pays to stay diversified.

Are you under the illusion that you have actually said anything that is verifiable? You've done nothing but utter a bunch of rants and opinions. I was wondering if eventually you'd actually assert something that could be debated or fact-checked, but you haven't -- your thinking is too muddled.

For example:

In essence, the world economy is a house of cards that depends almost entirely on a corrupt and unsustainable form of usury.

Whatever -- that's just a metaphor, unless you really think the world economy consists of a bunch of small pieces of stiff laminated cardstock that are placed vertically and horizontally into patterns. You can't prove the metaphor is apt, and I can't exactly prove it's wrong. It's a meaningless statement.


This can be taken to the national level as well. America has seen it's apex and is on the decline.

What does that mean? Actually the U.S. is far richer and more powerful than it was at any time in the past -- and will be more so in 10 years and 20 years and 30 years. Oh but maybe you mean something else -- perhaps you want America to maintain the same share of world GDP that it had in 1946 when the rest of the developed world was in ashes and China and India were living in stone-age poverty. Do we want to keep the rest of the world in poverty? Is that a good thing? Because when you introduce modern technology, finance, and management to them, they can grow very quickly from a low base. Economists would call that "catching up the frontier of technology and economic productivity".

There is really no doubt about this and it cannot be changed so long as people are content with their foreign made crap and toys that allegedly make our lives so much better.

I have lots of foreign-made things that indisputably make my life better -- that's proved beyond any debate by the fact that I have spent my money buying these things, and I use these things to my great benefit. Your opinion about that has no value.


but I also remember things before our culture was saturated with all of this junk (including the www), and things were indeed better in a lot of ways.

You are stating an opinion based on your own preferences. Your own preferences mean absolutely nothing either to me or to anyone else on Earth who is not you. I remember the 1970's, and I think the world is fantastically better today in literally every way I can even think of, other than that now I'm halfway to the coffin. But then again, that's just my own preference, isn't it? Funny how that works. That's why economists collect actual statistics.

I have one other thought - if it is so bad to you, and you are bold enough to start your own company, start the change!

Fix it!!

Share what you do - we will listen and possibly imitate.

First, fix yourself, then we will copy....

quote Kevin20:

Well, how about?

A considerable enough portion of the American population is not only lacking any savings, but also in sufficient enough debt to unfavorably impact the economy.

Inflation is grossly misrepresented by the fed.

Socialist policies enacted by Washington have passed the burden of those who do not plan properly back onto taxpayers who do.


House of Cards meaning. The sentence speaks for itself. And I refer to fractional reserve banking as being inherently corrupt and unsustainable. The very concept of lending money that you don't have while collecting usury on it is unethical and should be criminal. The Creature From Jekyll Island comes to mind.

The fed owes more money than America can pay back at any foreseeable point in the future. The fed only sends orders for what...maybe 30% of the currency in circulation? How can this possibly translate into being "far richer than at anytime in the past?" Let me guess, it isn't as simple as balance sheets right? It requires "sophistication."
And I could care less about the 3rd world. The west in general and the US in large part absorb their ever-increasing populations as it is. We use our resources and build the infrastructure to accomodate them. Why on earth do "we" feel the need to help them along with this at our own demise?

And there I agree, my opinion has no more value than yours which is that all of this crap that Americans en masse have traded for savings and security is somehow indisputably improving their lives. BTW, where does all of this junk end up after it's been updated and outmoded. After all, ending is better than mending and there is no such thing as resource toxification or the Chinese chug.

That's true as well. My own preferences are not to compete in almost every industry with someone in India or Singapore who can complete the same task for less than one-quarter the wage while my cost of living and taxes continue to escalate. The www has it's many drawbacks. And yes, it's all perspective but then again, why have economists if not for puting the number to the observation. It doesn't take a economist to tell you that you are being squeezed by more players and in ways that certainly do not benefit your home or community.

Quote Sunnyone:

First of all, it isn't "bad for me." I'm doing fine, but the pressure is always there so I can relate to some of the people who are griping. Being that as it is, I try to figure out where the pressure is coming from in order to find out what part of it that I have control over and what part I do not. And I have already started the "change."

I research before I buy and buy locally first and foremost.
I will tell others why I do not shop at certain outfits and won't buy certain brands.
I save and invest in tangible assets.
I try to have a sense of what's coming down the pipeline by researching and planning accordingly.
I am educating my kids on issues of finance and personal independance.
The list goes on.

BTW, aren't you the one who brought up using the spellchecker?

I am educating my kids on issues of finance and personal independance- I wish everybody would do this, good job.

I save and invest in tangible assets- Key to wealth

Houston, we have a problem.

If this thread goes over into politics, we will have another problem. Whenever we get into monetary policy discussions, we get into political discussions. As logical as it is, it is not allowed here.

irony. it's irony.