I researched a bunch of post on not signing the back of your credit cards but instead putting "Photo ID Required".

Does anyone have a "definitive" answer whether this is a legal option and not validating the terms of service with the card issuer?

read the back of your card


does it say "not valid unless signed"?

If so, then your card is not valid


if it does NOT say that, then it may be valid...but it's a dumb thing to do IMO....

I know the post office wont accept any card this is not signed.... LOL I had to go through that fiasco because I forgot to sign my debit card

Its technically not a valid card, but I've never heard of anyone being rejected because of it. The only circumstance where I could see it as being a genuinely dumb thing to do, is if you forgot your ID or lost it. Then you could end up screwing yourself until you replaced either the card or ID.

I've don't sign my cards anymore, and have never been rejected anywhere, including the post office. Some of my cards, I never even removed the activation sticker. Unless I'm travelling, I only carry one at a time and I tend not to lose things, so signing it or not signing it makes no difference to me.

eta: I've only been rejected when my card was signed, and then my signature 'didn't match' the one on the back of the card

All the cards I have say "not valid unless signed". Personally, I am not willing to take the chance that I might walk into my bank one day and they say, "We need to see your debit card and see if it is signed." It could happen. It is supposed to be a part of the terms that you agree with. If you don't sign then you are NOT agreeing with those terms and you shoudl close the account and send the card back to them. Of course I am one of those people that show my identification when asked for it. And am happy to do so!

why not just sign it?
i guess i fail to see what is gained by not signing..

I used to work part-time for a local retailer, and we were required to check every credit card for signature. If the card was not signed, we asked for ID and requested the customer to sign the card in our presence. If the customer refused to do so, we voided the transaction.

Some people have a theory that if you write on the back of it "See ID" or "Please Check ID" "C. ID" or something like that, that it will prevent someone from stealing your credit card and using it because the cashier is supposed to ask to see ID. All it does most of the time though is VOID your card, unless your name is "see ID" or "C. ID" or "please check ID". I don't get it cause there are plenty of places that you can use the card and not get carded. (Buying gas, going through a fast food drive thru.)

It particularly becomes a problem if you live abroad. I lived in South America for a while and they wouldnt accept any card that wasnt signed. They would even deny you if your signature on your card looked slightly different from the one on your passport. My signature has evolved over time and my 8 year old passport signature looks a little different than my current one. It got so bad, I had to get a new passport with an updated signature so merchants could verify it.

I guess int he end all that headache was there to protect me. It still sucked.

well, the merchants aren't SUPPOSED to accept it...

however, most of them do...


I'd much rather have the protection offered by using a credit card than NOT have those protections (and if you don't sign your card, technically you don't have that protection since the card itself isn't valid)


speaking of which, I have to pick out a card for my trip tomorrow....

here we go again

Here we go again....

With MOST card issuers, if you fail to properly sign your card with your legal signature, you forfeit your ZERO FRAUD LIABILITY PROTECTION, that alone gets me to sign my cards!

And how in the hell would they know if your card is signed or not?

I worked retail for a long time as a cashier. I could careless if a card said SEE ID. I didn't check an ID cause I really didn't feel like it.

Sometimes I would purposely not ask for ID just to see if the customer would say anything...

my retail experience since joining cb has been fun in this regard.

i used to get quite the kick out of the effect i could have on the customers who handed me the card and id TOGETHER. the looks on their faces when i refused to take their ids from them ranged from total confusion to utter rage.

also had quite a few moments where i used unsigned cards to torment customers who'd been rude to me earlier.

happened to me too a couple years ago, they refused to accept any form of photo id i had in my wallet. last time i went i used a different card that wasnt signed and the guy gave me a pen to sign it.

You missed the point!

There is NO benefit to not signing and a HUGE benefit to signing, so what is the argument?

Now in regards to your question, having worked in the financial fraud world for many years, when the bad guys get busted with tons of hot plastic on them or in their dwelling, you bet the card issuer finds out if you signed or not! Seen it happen MANY times! If your bank(s) decide to stick you with the fraud losses for an unsigned card, that is very YMMV.

An unsigned card is not valid and should not be accepted.

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or picture ID.

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement.

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard International, c/o Radio City Station, P. O. Box 1288, New York, NY 10101. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine.

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that issued your Visa card.

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

Great thanks! And thanks to those who PM'd me as well!

Take the time to look at the card. Counterfeit cards and the people who present them sometimes just don't "look right". Learn to trust your instincts.

Verify the signature on the back of the card with that on the sales receipt. An unsigned card is considered invalid and should not be accepted. If a customer gives you an unsigned card, the following steps should be taken:

Where permissible by law, request a photo ID. The ID serial number and expiration date should be written on the sales receipt before you complete the transaction. Note: In most cases, a merchant may not ask for an ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures, either when a valid card is first presented or to complete a sale. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.

Ask the customer to sign the card. The signature on the card should match the signature on the photo ID. A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted. Ask the customer for another signed Visa card.

Compare the signature on the card to the signature on the ID.
If a cardholder refuses to sign the card and you accept the card, you may end up liable for the transaction should the cardholder dispute the item.

Check the account number on the front and back of the card to make sure they match.
Watch for suspicious behavior such as making large purchases at opening or closing time, not asking any questions regarding major purchases, requests for delivery to foreign countries (particularly Nigeria, Ghana or Indonesia), etc.




information above is taking from Heartland Payment Systems website

people get offended when they are asked for an ID
but who cares, what if someone walks in with their signed credit card..
they are not responsible for the un-authorized charges, who do you think pays for those charges?
VISA? MC? AMEX?
none of the above..
its comes outta merchants pocket..

you do the math.

If your card is signed and then stolen, the thief will have an easier time replicating your signature and this could make your dispute more difficult. Though, personally I have all my cards signed--the chances of having your signature on your card coming back to bite you are very small considering how many other things you sign.

we don't accept cards that are not signed with a valid signature. no where inthe merchant agreement doe sit require us to accept them like that. in fact, it states that we are liable if we accept an invalid card. and failure to sign invalidates it.

Here's my experience.

My post office DOES require a signature.

My signature is little more than a scribble anyway.


I write SEE ID in permanent marker, clearly across 70% of the signature panel - if I then use that card at the post office (the ONLY place I've EVER been that requires a signature), I scribble my signature in the remaining inch or so of space.


FROM MY EXPERIENCE:

I would say 80% of retailers DO NOT check signatures, partially from having been one (people come to me with a card that they've had for over a year and say "Oh, no one ever pointed out before that I hadn't sign it") and just watching people.

Of transactions where I have to hand the card over, 60-70% ask for my ID when it's written in large block lettering (all caps, same size) with permanent marker. (and occasionally I have to point out my tiny signature to post office employees).


Technically it's not valid not to sign, but the attention rate to double check that it's me increases many times over when you write it loud and clear

The official answer was already posted so I'll summarize:

1. Cards MUST be signed or they are not valid. You can add your "see ID" if you wish but the sig still has to be there.
2. Merchant agreements generally forbid the requesting of additional ID unless circumstances warrant a doublecheck, even if it's by the request of the cardholder.
3. Banks have begun denying fraud claims in cases where a lost or stolen card is recovered and found to not be signed.

oO

Shoot, I missed that one - that's weak.

I get it - and their argument probably holds up in court, but that's really weak.

Why would it be weak? The bank says you must sign your card to be valid. You don't sign it and put See ID on the back. Someone steals your wallet, but gets busted later and the recover the card...after they spend a few thousand dollars on it. The bank gets the card and sees you didn't sign it. You are now liable for any charges on the card just because you didn't sign it.

I am awaiting the day when banks have someone standing at the door and they ask to see your credit/debit card. You can't say no, it is the property of the bank. Ad when they see you don't have it signed they can take it away from you.

How is that "weak"? It's a requirement by the c/c company that you sign your card, this completes the contract. If you fail to sign it, the contact is not completed and they certainly have every right to void the claim.

It’s quite simple:

You want the full protect of your c/c, SIGN IT!

If you have no worries in the world and think you’ll never have a fraudulent charge on your c/c and if you did are willing to be responsible for it, DON’T sign it.

Me, I sign my cards!

All of my cards are signed and I still get asked for ID regularly, and YES I do produce it. I have nothing to hide and I don't care if it's against Visa/MC regulations for the merchant to ask. I am glad they do ask. There is so much fraud nowadays I don't blame the merchants for wanting to be careful.

I too am one of those people that just show my I.D when I asked. I hate tying people up behind me just to prove a point and start with the....you know you are not allowed to ask for I.D becasue my card is signed speech.

I can understand the contract isn't technically valid unless you sign the card - but I find it weak that you're taking extra steps to protect yourself (and THEM, as a side effect) so the penalize you for it.

May no good deed go unpunished, I guess

If a merchant tries to require ID, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911 to ensure they never do again.

VISA: 1-800-VISA-911
MasterCard: 1-800-300-3069


Also easily report merchant violations online at:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

Check the box that says "Merchant required ID"

I Happily and Gratefully SHOW MY ID!! I never call VISA/MC as the business is protecting my when they ask for ID!

NO they are NOT protecting you!!

One of the reasons NOT to show ID is so the punk behind the counter does not compromise your identity or decide to steal it! Besides, if you signed your card you have no fraud liabilty and are protected!

+ 1

Thats for this. I just reported 4 merchants that have requested either IDs, or minimum transaction amounts.

I'm NOT going to spend $10 for a $1.09 cup of coffee. If you don't like the merchant fees, then don't accept credit cards!

That is what the business wants you to believe. In reality they are just wasting your time as you are NOT liable for any fraud that occurs.

Any violating merchant must be reported immediately. Call 1-800-VISA-911 Press zero twice and ask to file an "incident report" regarding a merchant violation/merchant who required ID. It's quick, easy, and fun! 1-800-VISA-911. Make sure your community is 100% violation-free.

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or picture ID.

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement.

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard International, c/o Radio City Station, P. O. Box 1288, New York, NY 10101. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine.

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that issued your Visa card.

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

My Visa card is through my credit union. The credit union sent out a newsletter where they advised in lieu of signing the card, we should write "see id".

When I contacted the credit union about this advice (specifically asking if this would void the card and the protections that come with it), their security/fraud department told me that they had verified with Visa that this was ok.

I call Visa to verify and was told to contract my financial institution. Since the credit union is the one who told me to write "see id" I have to hope that I would still be protected.

I would suggest retaining a copy of that newsletter they sent out as documentation of this.

You also need to get names and written statements regarding this.

Five years down the road when the person who wrote the newsletter is long gone and nobody remembers who the security/fraud department spoke with at Visa, and your unsigned card is stolen, used, and then returned to the processing center, and it is discovered the card is unsigned, they will try to stick you with any liability from unauthorized charges. Nobody will remember this so called advise.

(And this is the ONLY time a merchant can ask for ID)

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rul...a_merchants.pdf

Unsigned Cards

While checking card security features, you should also make sure that the card is signed. An unsigned card is considered invalid and should not be accepted. If a customer gives you an unsigned card, the following steps must be taken:

• Check the cardholder’s ID. Ask the cardholder for some form of official government identification, such as a driver’s license or passport. Where permissible by law, the ID serial number and expiration date should be written on the sales receipt before you complete the transaction.

• Ask the customer to sign the card. The card should be signed within your full view, and the signature checked against the customer’s signature on the ID. A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted. Ask the customer for another signed Visa card.

• Compare the signature on the card to the signature on the ID.

If the cardholder refuses to sign the card, and you accept it, you may end up with financial liability for the transaction should the cardholder later dispute the charge.

“See ID”

Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don’t take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting.

“See ID” or “Ask for ID” is not a valid substitute for a signature. T he customer must sign the card in your presence, as stated above.

But that is part of how fraud is committed. The majority of it is from information stolen at the Point of Sale. So now in addition to your card number, they have your Driver License number and/or DOB and/or address. The more information the bigger the risk of fraud against you.

Obviously it is a major security and identity theft risk, extreme invasion of privacy, and a no-brainer to keep your ID to yourself. The most important thing is making sure it never happens again and if any violating merchant pops-up in your community, make sure they are eliminated/brought back into line immediately - 1-800-VISA-911.

You DON'T want to sign your cards...SIMPLE don't apply

You're welcome. Thank you for taking the time to make a difference.

Back years ago I was really lazy about signing cards (this was before you had to call them in to turn them on and peel off the sticker, etc... I'd just stick them in my wallet). I generally could go through quite a few transactions before someone noted the lack of signature and made me sign the thing.
I can tell you a large slew of transactions these days, my card never even gets turned over (oft it never leaves my hand). This makes the "CID" argument even more laughable.

Frankly, the majority of fraud and other issues are caught these days by the instantaneous electronic authorization system. Signatures and ID are entirely spurious in making a difference.

Exactly.

We could catch even more with chip and PIN, but ID is laughable.

99% of places could check ID, and the thieves would gravitate to the remaining 1%, and the cashier-not-present merchants.

ID check policies are like beware of dog signs - they may deter some crooks from a specific target, but they don't reduce the overall level of crime. Petty property crime is highly opportunistic, and a thief deterred from one target will find another.

Visa and MC know that the fraud can't be stopped by things like ID, and have thankfully put policies in place that keep merchants from competing in an "arms race" for card security that annoys customers and slows lines, but does not reduce aggregate fraud losses.

Signatures as ID even more so.

I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that signatures are a good solution.

The assertion of the anti-ID crowd revolves around the fact that ID introduces new problems without fixing existing ones.

Stopping crime is tough. In the context of retail ID checks, the specific criminals we are trying to stop are petty thieves who have stolen the physical cards, or moderately sophisticated thieves using phony cards that have been skimmed and cloned. The criminal who steals entire identities, and opens or hijacks existing accounts, can easily have fake ID made before the fraudulent cards arrive. That type of criminal will never be deterred at the point of purchase, regardless of what we do about it. Identity thieves must be stopped on the supply side.

Stopping petty thieves in possession of stolen plastic is a demand side problem. This problem will never be fixed on the supply side, because there will always be irresponsible or absent minded cardholders, and petty thieves will always engage in burglaries, robberies, and pickpocketing to obtain possession of cards.

The best way to stop these petty thieves at retail points of purchase is to convert to a system in which the physical presence of a card alone is 100% not capable of producing a card present qualified authorization on its own. These thieves seek to possess the plastic itself, so the logical solution to the problem is to ensure that possession of the card alone is useless at the retail point of sale. The best way to accomplish this is to switch to chip and PIN.

Skimmers are also stopped by chip and PIN, both on the supply and demand side. A chip and PIN card communicates only with the network's mainframes. In a chip and PIN transaction, cardholder information, along with the pin, is encrypted uniquely for every transaction by a chip on the card itself, in a way that only the network's computers can understand. This information, once it leaves the card, passes through the terminal to the network. If the authorization is valid, the terminal will receive all of its information directly from the network. This makes skimming far too difficult to ever be practical. Skimmers cannot clone cards, compromise terminals, or obtain PINs, therefore making chip and PIN an obstacle to both the production and use of bogus cards.

Chip and PIN is a technological measure, that can be implemented with 100% compliance automatically by equipment. Cashiers are human, and 100% compliance will always be impossible. ID checking requires adherence to the policy, in addition to judgment and expertise for spotting and stopping fakes. ID checking can never happen at a fully self-serve gas pump or checkout line, but chip and PIN can. ID checking is useless if the cashier is cooperating with the criminal.