Ok. Here is the scoop.
First, I haven't touched student loans in nearly 10 years. I thought they were taken care of in bankruptcy in 92.
Now I get a threatening letter of wage garnishment.
And I start researching the internet. I HATE being a victim of Trade school missrepresenation but thats what its boiled down to and I'm the stooge left holding the bag. started a blog site to start fighting the predatory trade schools, many of which have been closed, or sold, or changed their names over the years.
5 Loans. All GSL's. Original principal about 17k now over 37 with interests etc..I doubt I can make even a minimum payment.
I know NOTHING of the new laws. I have applied for the forms to consolidate them, and rehabilitate them, if possible. But Im also paying off State Unemployment overpayment and untill just this last month, the company I work for was going to close its doors. The president announced 2 Nov that the company was again operating out of debt, and we got a big contract which resulted in Overtime for what should be about 4 months. Then its back to 40 hours, and I can only barly survive on that, due to Michigans totaly screwed up economy.
Ive contacted several loan consolidation places, but they want 500 to 600 a month payments, and thats my rent payment for my apartment, which represents 2/3rds of my take home pay.
I already have a 15 percent IRS garnishment on me. Can US Dept of Ed add another 15 percent?!
What are my options?
Also, the US Dept of Ed sent me 150+ pages of documents and not one shows my signature on any of the alleged documents. And none of the amounts match up to the other paper work they sent me. That is, as far as the principal amounts are concerned.
I can't make heads or tails of the contracts, as many have stickers covering a quarter of the pages.
And most are barly readable, even with computer enhancement.
How can the govenrment justify its claim, if it itself cannot read the original contracts?
Totally confused, tired of trying to get ahead, only to get shafted again.
Time is running out.
any help appreacated.
Full Version: help, old loans thought discharged. Recent activity.
Unemployment fraud/accepting overpayments and failure to pay taxes are separate issues from student loans.
The p-notes all said basically the same thing- although MPNs didn't exist before 1993, you'd better believe ED has seen others from your guarantor or lender for the same years. One thing they all said was that your lender, guarantor, and ED don't vouch for your school, you agree to repay whether you graduate and get a job in your field of study or not, and it's your responsibility to ensure it meets your educational and vocational needs.
No, they can only get another 10% until you've satisfied your tax debt, then they can get 15%.
If the school closed before you could complete your program (and you were still there at time it closed) you should look into a closed school discharge. Otherwise, you should look into consolidation with ED under ICR.
The p-notes all said basically the same thing- although MPNs didn't exist before 1993, you'd better believe ED has seen others from your guarantor or lender for the same years. One thing they all said was that your lender, guarantor, and ED don't vouch for your school, you agree to repay whether you graduate and get a job in your field of study or not, and it's your responsibility to ensure it meets your educational and vocational needs.
No, they can only get another 10% until you've satisfied your tax debt, then they can get 15%.
If the school closed before you could complete your program (and you were still there at time it closed) you should look into a closed school discharge. Otherwise, you should look into consolidation with ED under ICR.
QUOTE(Cynic @ Nov 17 2007, 12:55 PM) 
Unemployment fraud/accepting overpayments and failure to pay taxes are separate issues from student loans.
The p-notes all said basically the same thing- although MPNs didn't exist before 1993, you'd better believe ED has seen others from your guarantor or lender for the same years. One thing they all said was that your lender, guarantor, and ED don't vouch for your school, you agree to repay whether you graduate and get a job in your field of study or not, and it's your responsibility to ensure it meets your educational and vocational needs.
No, they can only get another 10% until you've satisfied your tax debt, then they can get 15%.
If the school closed before you could complete your program (and you were still there at time it closed) you should look into a closed school discharge. Otherwise, you should look into consolidation with ED under ICR.
The p-notes all said basically the same thing- although MPNs didn't exist before 1993, you'd better believe ED has seen others from your guarantor or lender for the same years. One thing they all said was that your lender, guarantor, and ED don't vouch for your school, you agree to repay whether you graduate and get a job in your field of study or not, and it's your responsibility to ensure it meets your educational and vocational needs.
No, they can only get another 10% until you've satisfied your tax debt, then they can get 15%.
If the school closed before you could complete your program (and you were still there at time it closed) you should look into a closed school discharge. Otherwise, you should look into consolidation with ED under ICR.
Ok.. just what is this, ICR?
Again, I have been out of the loop for some time.
if I gotta pay these things, fine. But im still going to go after the school, and maybe the government itself.
I've just begun my new battle. The government removed most of the consumer protections, are denying us our right to a court hearing before the theift of our pay, (in violation of the 7th amendment of the US constitutiton), and has by its failure to properly regulate interstate commerce, and to protect citizens from fraud.
For what its worth, any contract entered into, under missreprenation or fraud is null and void. The student loans in this case, were done under those conditions, and I will fight that all the way to the US Supreme court.
Law applies to everyone, even the government.
ICR = Income Contingent Repayment
Ok.. just what is this, ICR?
Again, I have been out of the loop for some time.
if I gotta pay these things, fine. But im still going to go after the school, and maybe the government itself.
You have no grounds to go after the government.
I've just begun my new battle. The government removed most of the consumer protections, are denying us our right to a court hearing before the theift of our pay, (in violation of the 7th amendment of the US constitutiton), and has by its failure to properly regulate interstate commerce, and to protect citizens from fraud.
You were sent a warning of garnishment. They are giving you an opportunity to avoid garnishment by entering into repayment. They are not stealing your pay..Have you called the CA yet or have you answered the garnishment notice for hearing??You only have 30 days from the date of the letter to do so.
On your BK issue...you might be after your attorney if he specially told you that the loan would be discharged. If you filed Pro Se, well that is your own fault for not investigating the BK rules for student loans.
For what its worth, any contract entered into, under missreprenation or fraud is null and void. The student loans in this case, were done under those conditions, and I will fight that all the way to the US Supreme court.
You totally do not understand that you entered into more than one contract. One was with the school. The other was with your lender to lend you the money to go to the school of YOUR choice.
Let's put it in simpler terms. You want to buy a used car. The average person will look under the hood, take it for a test drive, as for an independant opinion or take it to a mechanic. 18-80, you will ask questions. You then take a loan out from a bank to purchase that car. 2 months later that car dies. Do you complain to the bank?? Nope. You might be able to go after the person or company you bought it from. However the bank still wants it payments whether you have a car to drive or not. The same goes for student loans. You "purchased" an education. Did you ask for opinion or check under the hood before you signed up?? Or did you listen to their promises of jobs and high income? Tradeschools , particularly private for profit schools can be a crap shoot. Look at ITT....some people get a great education...others do not. Often it comes down to what YOU put into it. Even getting a certificate or degree does not guarantee you a job or good pay. My cousin is a PhD....he works in a bookstore at $10 an hour.
Anyway you look it, you dont have a case against the goverment and any case against the school is long since gone.
Law applies to everyone, even the government.
QUOTE(LynnInMN @ Nov 18 2007, 08:34 PM)
Ok.. just what is this, ICR?
Again, I have been out of the loop for some time.
if I gotta pay these things, fine. But im still going to go after the school, and maybe the government itself.
You have no grounds to go after the government.
WRONG. They removed the constitutional protections against FRAUD. That is reason enough. They are the regulating agency that didn't do its job.
I've just begun my new battle. The government removed most of the consumer protections, are denying us our right to a court hearing before the theift of our pay, (in violation of the 7th amendment of the US constitutiton), and has by its failure to properly regulate interstate commerce, and to protect citizens from fraud.
You were sent a warning of garnishment. They are giving you an opportunity to avoid garnishment by entering into repayment. They are not stealing your pay..Have you called the CA yet or have you answered the garnishment notice for hearing??You only have 30 days from the date of the letter to do so.
When they are stealing a persons pay, without a court order it is a criminal act, even when its done by by government, especially when the contracts are void for fraud.
Whats the matter with you people? If a contract is entered into under misleading circumstances, or fraudulent missrepresentation, by our rules of law, that contract is VOID, un-eforceable. But the government thinks it is exempt from the law.
On your BK issue...you might be after your attorney if he specially told you that the loan would be discharged. If you filed Pro Se, well that is your own fault for not investigating the BK rules for student loans.
For what its worth, any contract entered into, under missreprentation or fraud is null and void. The student loans in this case, were done under those conditions, and I will fight that all the way to the US Supreme court.
You totally do not understand that you entered into more than one contract. One was with the school. The other was with your lender to lend you the money to go to the school of YOUR choice.
You are making excuses for the criminal acts done by another party. Let me guess, you work for the banks right? FYI they don't loan money, they loan bank credit, and thats unlawful.
Do you think those banks would have "loaned the money" if they knew the government would only reemburse them only 40 percent? NO they would not, and they would have scruitinzed the schools better.
Stop making excuses for those criminals.
Let's put it in simpler terms. You want to buy a used car. The average person will look under the hood, take it for a test drive, as for an independant opinion or take it to a mechanic. 18-80, you will ask questions. You then take a loan out from a bank to purchase that car. 2 months later that car dies. Do you complain to the bank?? Nope. You might be able to go after the person or company you bought it from. However the bank still wants it payments whether you have a car to drive or not. The same goes for student loans. You "purchased" an education. Did you ask for opinion or check under the hood before you signed up?? Or did you listen to their promises of jobs and high income? Tradeschools , particularly private for profit schools can be a crap shoot. Look at ITT....some people get a great education...others do not. Often it comes down to what YOU put into it. Even getting a certificate or degree does not guarantee you a job or good pay. My cousin is a PhD....he works in a bookstore at $10 an hour.
They didn't have this kind of information available in 1985. The internet did not exist as it does today. How were people supposed to find out about those schools way back then? What part don't you understand? There was no information available.
Anyway you look it, you dont have a case against the goverment and any case against the school is long since gone.
Anyway anyone with half a brain looks at it, we do have a case against the government. IT started the HEA program, IT was responsible for it. It failed in its oversight, It FAILED to protect consumers from interstate commerce fraud, It failed when it removed the constitutional protections that people could claim. It has created a whole generation or 2 of perpetual debt slaves. IT can be the solution, but either way IT is profiting from the loans by selling the debts. THAT is not what our government is supposed to be doing.
Law applies to everyone, even the government.
Again, I have been out of the loop for some time.
if I gotta pay these things, fine. But im still going to go after the school, and maybe the government itself.
You have no grounds to go after the government.
WRONG. They removed the constitutional protections against FRAUD. That is reason enough. They are the regulating agency that didn't do its job.
I've just begun my new battle. The government removed most of the consumer protections, are denying us our right to a court hearing before the theift of our pay, (in violation of the 7th amendment of the US constitutiton), and has by its failure to properly regulate interstate commerce, and to protect citizens from fraud.
You were sent a warning of garnishment. They are giving you an opportunity to avoid garnishment by entering into repayment. They are not stealing your pay..Have you called the CA yet or have you answered the garnishment notice for hearing??You only have 30 days from the date of the letter to do so.
When they are stealing a persons pay, without a court order it is a criminal act, even when its done by by government, especially when the contracts are void for fraud.
Whats the matter with you people? If a contract is entered into under misleading circumstances, or fraudulent missrepresentation, by our rules of law, that contract is VOID, un-eforceable. But the government thinks it is exempt from the law.
On your BK issue...you might be after your attorney if he specially told you that the loan would be discharged. If you filed Pro Se, well that is your own fault for not investigating the BK rules for student loans.
For what its worth, any contract entered into, under missreprentation or fraud is null and void. The student loans in this case, were done under those conditions, and I will fight that all the way to the US Supreme court.
You totally do not understand that you entered into more than one contract. One was with the school. The other was with your lender to lend you the money to go to the school of YOUR choice.
You are making excuses for the criminal acts done by another party. Let me guess, you work for the banks right? FYI they don't loan money, they loan bank credit, and thats unlawful.
Do you think those banks would have "loaned the money" if they knew the government would only reemburse them only 40 percent? NO they would not, and they would have scruitinzed the schools better.
Stop making excuses for those criminals.
Let's put it in simpler terms. You want to buy a used car. The average person will look under the hood, take it for a test drive, as for an independant opinion or take it to a mechanic. 18-80, you will ask questions. You then take a loan out from a bank to purchase that car. 2 months later that car dies. Do you complain to the bank?? Nope. You might be able to go after the person or company you bought it from. However the bank still wants it payments whether you have a car to drive or not. The same goes for student loans. You "purchased" an education. Did you ask for opinion or check under the hood before you signed up?? Or did you listen to their promises of jobs and high income? Tradeschools , particularly private for profit schools can be a crap shoot. Look at ITT....some people get a great education...others do not. Often it comes down to what YOU put into it. Even getting a certificate or degree does not guarantee you a job or good pay. My cousin is a PhD....he works in a bookstore at $10 an hour.
They didn't have this kind of information available in 1985. The internet did not exist as it does today. How were people supposed to find out about those schools way back then? What part don't you understand? There was no information available.
Anyway you look it, you dont have a case against the goverment and any case against the school is long since gone.
Anyway anyone with half a brain looks at it, we do have a case against the government. IT started the HEA program, IT was responsible for it. It failed in its oversight, It FAILED to protect consumers from interstate commerce fraud, It failed when it removed the constitutional protections that people could claim. It has created a whole generation or 2 of perpetual debt slaves. IT can be the solution, but either way IT is profiting from the loans by selling the debts. THAT is not what our government is supposed to be doing.
Law applies to everyone, even the government.
VOPS, you are on the wrong board. I think you might feel more at home on http://studentloanslave.org/ This is not an activist board and we have no interest in becoming an activist board.
QUOTE
They didn't have this kind of information available in 1985. The internet did not exist as it does today. How were people supposed to find out about those schools way back then? What part don't you understand? There was no information available
WOW...how did anybody find out anything prior to the internet?? How did we live before google?? You talk to the students walking in and out of the doors of school. You talked to a high school or vocational counselor. You asked the names of the employers who hired from that school and you call them. You ask for credentials and call the licensing body. The BBB. There were no computers when I went to school back in the late 70's, early 80's and I had no problem doing research on my schools.
What it comes down to is you are going to end up paying this debt whether you like it or not. Right now you have a choice of voluntary or by garnishment if you dont answer the garnishment package. If the garnishment starts, you will not be able to consolidate.
Again you have no legal case. I spent 15 years in the student loan industry and I have heard your story over and over again. Obviously you don't have the money to hire an attorney and believe me, nobody is going to take you on contingency.
I will let Cynic put his 2 cents worth in.
I disagree with the assertion that the government has "removed the constitutional protections against FRAUD".
You have a legal remedy if:
-your loan(s) were issued by someone else's perjury of your name and signature, and you neither signed the loan agreement(s) nor took the classes paid for with the loan(s)
-a school official falsely certified your ability to benefit from the program(s) of study the loans were taken to obtain
-the school closed while you were still attending, before you could complete your program of study
-you officially withdrew before completing all or part of your study and the school retained a portion of the loan proceeds they were required by law to return to the lender based on when you officially withdrew.
In all above cases, the remedy is a discharge of your obligation to repay the loans in question, or, if the loans were issued on a basis partially false/fraudulent or incorrect, discharge of the principle and all interest and fees on the false/fraudulent or incorrect portion.
I do NOT agree with the theory that the lender, guarantor, and ultimately ED are liable for all actions and representations of a school they do not operate, control, share revenue with, or even endorse.
In the event that the entity that funded the loan(s) and the school you attended were really the same party, every action that can or could be taken against the school can be taken against the original and subsequent loan holder (including the federal government), but that's almost never the case. Generally, the lender and the school are different parties, and your contract with the school is legally separate from your contract with the lender; neither contract negating the other if breached by anyone.
Lynn gave an excellent analogy with the example of the car dealer and car loan, but I would add that if the car dealer (or an entity they owned or had true interest and control in) issued the car loan, any defenses or actions you could could take against the car dealer could be taken against the car lender.
Breeze has provided you with one resource if you want existing laws changed. Another is studentlaonsjustice.org. Keep in mind that until laws are changed your rights and responsibilities under the existing laws remain intact, and that no one's opinion on this website or either of the above constitutes legal advice. For possible free legal assistance you should contact your local bar association and ask for referral to a pro bono legal organization in your area. If you still feel your fundamental constitutional rights are being violated, you can also contact your local chapter of the ACLU.
You have a legal remedy if:
-your loan(s) were issued by someone else's perjury of your name and signature, and you neither signed the loan agreement(s) nor took the classes paid for with the loan(s)
-a school official falsely certified your ability to benefit from the program(s) of study the loans were taken to obtain
-the school closed while you were still attending, before you could complete your program of study
-you officially withdrew before completing all or part of your study and the school retained a portion of the loan proceeds they were required by law to return to the lender based on when you officially withdrew.
In all above cases, the remedy is a discharge of your obligation to repay the loans in question, or, if the loans were issued on a basis partially false/fraudulent or incorrect, discharge of the principle and all interest and fees on the false/fraudulent or incorrect portion.
I do NOT agree with the theory that the lender, guarantor, and ultimately ED are liable for all actions and representations of a school they do not operate, control, share revenue with, or even endorse.
In the event that the entity that funded the loan(s) and the school you attended were really the same party, every action that can or could be taken against the school can be taken against the original and subsequent loan holder (including the federal government), but that's almost never the case. Generally, the lender and the school are different parties, and your contract with the school is legally separate from your contract with the lender; neither contract negating the other if breached by anyone.
Lynn gave an excellent analogy with the example of the car dealer and car loan, but I would add that if the car dealer (or an entity they owned or had true interest and control in) issued the car loan, any defenses or actions you could could take against the car dealer could be taken against the car lender.
Breeze has provided you with one resource if you want existing laws changed. Another is studentlaonsjustice.org. Keep in mind that until laws are changed your rights and responsibilities under the existing laws remain intact, and that no one's opinion on this website or either of the above constitutes legal advice. For possible free legal assistance you should contact your local bar association and ask for referral to a pro bono legal organization in your area. If you still feel your fundamental constitutional rights are being violated, you can also contact your local chapter of the ACLU.
10 years!?!? Consider yourself lucky. They got me after 6 months!!!! 
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.