the car that is )))

I went to the Nissan Dealership today and walked out or should I say rode out in new 2006 Nissan Altima special edition )))

Only one problem.....the financing isn;t completely done. The finance manager says it shouldn't be a problem to get financed through a certain company I believe she said it was WFS??? I am nervous nervous nervous though I keep thinking something is going to happen and there gonna be like sorry you gotta bring the car back!!...Arghhh


DO you think she would have let me leave with the car if she didn't think I would be financed...am I worried for no reason??

JMO I would have not left with the car until it was signed and totally done.. i think it is their way of saying here take it, like it and when we can't get you financed thru x for 5% we can get you thru z for 11%
but just my thinking?

yeah that's what I was afraid of but since I still have my trade in and the deal is not completely sealed anyways until an approval has gone through then I should be fine right? I'm definitely not getting any 5% financing right now. They have me at 16% right now and she said the most it will go will be to 18.99%...Still horrible interest rates but much better than the 25% I am currently paying now.

I'm just worried that they will tell me to bring the car back!

yes that interest rate is better and you can always get a better interest rate down the line and refin.. which if they tell you to bring it back, then do so with your chin up and work on getting a better rate! as my dh tells me Patience.. anyywas.. also.. you still can so no and take the car back if they don't get the rate you want!

True your so right!

I am just going to see what happens...what other choice do I have...lol.. The finance manager did ask me if my other scored were better. They pulled Equifax and showed me at a 537....she asked if any of my scores were over 580 because WFS would most likely pull all three bureaus. I told her I didn't think so because last time I checked none of them were....I just couldn't help myself. I went to myfico and fed the monster....Experian went up to 598!!!!!!!!! I can't believe it Adding that Blair account really did help! I hope this helps with the rate some.

Should of waited for the all new Alitma

I spot deliver everyone, then get the approval later.

sometimes you gotta come back in an resign.

goodluck!

WFS, btw way is probably westlake financial services. Quite possibly the most difficult people to deal with. My 22 APR loan was through them. *shudder*

I did that once, and then came back and they told me I'd have to put $3000 down for the car.. I had to leave the car after having it for 2 days!! My credit was in REALLY BAD shape then lol.

Good luck and congrats!

WESTLAKE FINANCIAL SERVICES IS NOT WFS.

No not the same people as far as I can tell from there website. The finance lady says it doesn't really stand for anything.

SO let's hope it's not the same company. Thanks for the good luck vibes

Thanks Marv....I haven't heard anything from them today...should I call or just be patient??

They will call you if they need something.

But I suppose couldn't hurt to call and check in with F&I.

I recently got an auto loan thru WFS. My scores were around 640 and interest was 12%. WFS has been really good to deal with so far, and they gave me my first car loan all by myself. Good luck!

WFS stands for Western Financial Services. I've had a couple of cars financed through them. They are pretty cool....Their website is www.wfsfinancial.com.

Ok So now I'm worried....I just pulled TC and I have about a zallion inquiries on my reports.....if WFS accepted me then they woulnd't have run additional inquiries right??? I'm getting on the phone NOW and calling the F&I lady...this is driving me crazy I should have left the dang on car there until I knew something for sure...arghhhhh

I have to admit, this is such a good tactic on making a sale. If your financing hasn't been approved and you've been driving around in your hopefully, new car with that big grin on your face, chances are that you might agree to terms that you weren't comfortable with when they call you back with higher interest rates.

I did see the other thread about the interest rate being raised and I can see how your having the dilemma. I don't know if your comfortable paying $100 more but you probably wouldn't have gone with the deal if that was the original payment plan.

Isn't this kind of thing a scam some dealers pull.

You drive off with the car with pending financing at X%

You later get a call that they tried their best but the bank won't do it, the best rate you can get is higher.

You say you want to just return the car but they tell you, you already drove it, you put miles on it.

You still refuse and will return the car, they tell you that they will report the car stolen unless you buy the car.

Either that or you are stupid enough to agree to the higher interest from the beginning.'

Driving off the lot without doing all the numbers and finalizing the deal was a stupid decision.

Also, as the previous poster mentioned, the Altima is gettting replaced with a brand new improved version is 2007, so your car's value just dropped even more off the bat.

can someone tell me EXACTLY how this is a scam?

What are talking about????? A scam..... please.....

Carbuyingtips.com lists it as their number one scam

Sounds to me, a dealer shouldn't let anybody take a car without the final financing coming through and later telling the person that they must pay a higher price is a scam in my book. But here's the quote from carbuyingtips


Scam #1: The Financing Fell Through Scam (Spot Delivery Scam)
How the scam works: This is the oldest trick in the scam book, increasing in 2005. Lots of people complain about to us about this scam. You buy a new car, the "LieNance" manager says you got a low APR, hands you the keys, and you drive home. (Not all finance managers are LieNance managers, just the ones who lie, so salespeople stop whining to me about this name I made up for the few bad apples). Two weeks and 500 miles later, the dealer calls you saying "Sorry, you didn't qualify for that low interest". This is where "subject to financing" clauses on contracts bite you in the butt. Everyone thinks that you sign papers it's a done deal. The dealer knew exactly what you qualified for before you signed, unless you lied about your income.

They knew your credit score. If it's above 680, you'll get a low APR. If it's below 680, expect a higher APR. Your credit union will print your credit history and approve you in 10 minutes. I got approved instantly online with Capital One Auto Finance. So why the problems with the dealer's Retail Installment Sales Contract? There usually is no problem, it's a scam. There is a phrase on most sales contracts stating "subject to loan approval". This Jedi mind trick means: "The deal is not final, even though you signed this contract." They'll tell you that you must produce an additional $1000 AND your payments would go up. They pull this scam on people with bad credit, because it's believable. They get the least resistance from this crowd, and figure you'll just pay up somehow.

so again I'd ask EXACTLY how is it a scam?

It Can Definitely be a Scam.

I don't think spot delivery in and of itself is a scam. When F&I has a reasonable degree of certainty, based on experience, that financing will happen but cannot at the moment for whatever reason secure it (after business hours at lender, for instance), AND, it's explained to the customer that final financing has not been obtained but he can take spot delivery subject to final approval, then it's not a scam.

But it has the potential to be a scam. Happened to me in March. Dealer spot delivered car, promising rate X at payment Y with downpayment Z. Signed papers, left with car. I was lied to. After having the car for more than a week, they called me and said "Good news, you're getting Gap insurance and an extended warranty, just drop by and sign the papers". I smelled a rat. I pulled my credit reports and found that my deal had been shopped out to eight companies AFTER I signed paperwork and left with car. Sure enough, when I when to sign the new papers, the terms had changed, and they demanded: higher payment, and more down payment. I raised my middle finger and walked away. Now, if this had been my only source of transportation, I may have felt compelled to grumble a little and roll over and sign. In this case it was a scam.

New Hampshire's Attorney General's site:
http://www.nh.gov/nhdoj/consumer/sourcebook/autos_new.html

The Michigan Attorney General:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/cis_ofis...t%20delivery%22

The Arizona Attorney General's press release:
http://phoenix.about.com/od/scam1/a/spotdelivery.htm

The better business bureau:
http://www.bbb.org/Alerts/article.asp?ID=611

Georgia Consumer Affairs Division of AG:
http://www.georgia.gov/00/article/0,2086,5...3094224,00.html

And others:
http://www.lemonlaw.com/spotdelivery.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/spot_delivery.html

Don't freak out! The one that approved you could have been the 9th or 10th lender to finally say yes. All the inquiries will all add up to one INQ total because it happened the same day.

Don't forget, you'll get all those denials for auto credit through the mail, too.

[color=#000000]
This answers the "SCAM" statement!! Remember as a consumer... you are NOT obligated to buy the car. The doors of the dealership are not locked, you are free to leave at any time.

Gee, a whole 20 miles a day allowance before the Dealer can claim "excessive" miles.

chortle

Is this a scam? Better yet, is it fraudulent? Let's see since fraud is best determined by the action to decieve.

Did the OP understand the above document, was it explained in detail to her or was it "keys and go" puppy dog sales tactics? Did the salesman or FI know that they had an unknowledgeable and emotionally driven buyer (which she is). Sure they did, what conclusion did they draw? Was the OP purposefully taken advantage of?

Fraud, scam...all terms of law; what about honesty, customer service, integrity? Was the OP serviced?

Yeah, she got hosed alright.

Car salesman, FIs, dealers, they love to play with their words, show documents that make it OUR fault that we didn't fine read the contracts.

Tell me, do you think this OP was scammed? Was treated fraudulently?

I sure as hell do.

So it is the Dealerships fault that the customer did not read the contracts in their entirety????? WAKE UP!!!!!!

Not referring to the OP, just the statement above...if someone is neither capable nor willing to read and understand a contract they have no business buying a car.

And no, I don't work for anything even remotely connected to the auto industry.

I thought you made some bad calls during the finals REF.

If the dealership, or it's sales and/or finance people, knew that the OP either did not understand the transaction (obviously she didn't), or they did not take the time to explain the above contract, including the potential ramifications, then they are culpable.

Tell me, when a mortgage broker places a 2nd on an 88 yos only home, knowing that their "customer" was unaware, uninformed (purposefully) or emotionally incapable of making an appropriate decision in the CUSTOMER'S best interest, it is the brokers fault that the customer did not read the contracts in their entirety????? WAKE UP TO SCAMMERS is what I say, those that knowingly prey on your heart and your wallets then hide behind the "Oh, it's your fault I scammed you, you idiot, you didn't read the entire contract" ploy.

Would you teach your children these type of sales schemes and tactics? Claim they were appropriate? All is well since it is Caveart Emptor, Baby?

What hors**t, 99% of the world is incapable of reading and comprehending contracts that are governed by statuatory and federal case law. Let them eat cake and walk in the snow, right?

There is no case for honesty, feeling comfortable that customer service really means that the customer's best interests are being taking care? Is the dealer a fox in sheep's clothing, part of the process that assesses a customer's personal weaknesses, and then aims directly at those weaknesses..for what...one more vehicle sale in 100s done each month?

Consumer fraud is so rampant that I believe the spot delivery agreement was developed to serve in those cases where the consumer had a deliberate intent to mislead a prospective lender on their credit application.

And I might add, merely as an afterthought, we are in the business to sell vehicles, not to take them back.

No question about that, the question is how they get sold, not ifthey get sold, MB.

At least that is how the customer/consumer looks at it, would you not agree?

Put the shoe on your foot, this OP comes into you, you know she can't read the contracts, you know is emotionally driven and is riding out in a car is not in her best interests (is it ever prior to sale?), do you "spot her" to enhance the chances of making a sale or take the high road and explain the contract, the pitfalls, that there is no reason that benefits her to "drive now, hope for the best later"?

Then don't spot deliver.

You have absolutley no idea what you are talking about.

We have managed to get off topic. I would prefer the responses in this thread specifically be address to assist the original poster.

If anyone wishes to discuss the evils of the automotive industry whether real or percieved from the consumer perspective I will be happy to move those topics to the general forum, where everyone can rant and rave all they wish.

I'm all ears. Please enlighten us, especially the OP, as to how her spot delivery was in her best interests. Feel free to include any information that would also support the contention that "he spot delivery agreement was developed to serve in those cases where the consumer had a deliberate intent to mislead a prospective lender on their credit application" vs the above bailment was written to support the dealer's interests before the consumers.

I would also appreciate your addressing that according to the bailment, excessive mileage being an average of 20 miles per day ( a ridiculous number since the average ropund trip to-from a dealer may wel exceed this with no further travel), and the ability of the Dealer to hold back any deposits at the Dealer's sole discretion once that limit has been exceeded. That would be "abuse" by the T and Cs.

Rather than the bailment as a primary for the dealer getting protected by consumer fraud/theft, at 20 cents per mile for all miles over the 20 mile daily average, the bailment can flip into a rental agreement. Without the consumer thinking of this "bailment" as such (did the OP? No; anyone else on this board as a consumer note that? Bet not).

When you are through, feel free to also recollect my posts in this thread and explain "how I have absolutley no idea what I am talking about."

Or.......

we can get back to the OP's original question and assist her.

Did the dealer do her right by spot delivering to her? Was it in her best interests, she wanted to knw.

Answer any or all but at least come back with something that has more meat and credibility than "You have absolutley no idea what you are talking about" unless, of course, that is the part and the parcel of all you have to say.

Let's not leave the OP any confusion here.

I think someone is lonely.

OR

argumentative.

I posted an update on what the final outcome was in a new thread