The Chuck Stewart book is available from Amazon but only as a third party. Amazon will
collect your money and then forward it to the author once it has confirmed shipment. I am not advocating or dismissing this book, just stating its availability.
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed
in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
Good luck everyone.
Full Version: I am going to bankrupt my student loans
QUOTE(SuperMike1992 @ Jan 12 2006, 07:26 AM) 
The Chuck Stewart book is available from Amazon but only as a third party. Amazon will
collect your money and then forward it to the author once it has confirmed shipment. I am not advocating or dismissing this book, just stating its availability.
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed
in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
Good luck everyone.
collect your money and then forward it to the author once it has confirmed shipment. I am not advocating or dismissing this book, just stating its availability.
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed
in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
Good luck everyone.
I haven't seen posts like you refer to...I however DID see a post where someone told the OP to not put all her eggs in one basket...which is WONDERFUL advice...
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later.
Mike,
I think the fact that MAY have tipped the balance was the collateral damage to a spouse who had nothing to do with the loans. All of this was done prior to marriage. He got no benefit from her education and a repayment would impact him and his children. Maybe that angle needs to be played out some more if circumstances warrant when trying to discharge SL's.
As someone posted, this case just had about every bad outcome that could happen to a family short of death. The circumstances will be difficult to replicate.
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later.
Mike,
I think the fact that MAY have tipped the balance was the collateral damage to a spouse who had nothing to do with the loans. All of this was done prior to marriage. He got no benefit from her education and a repayment would impact him and his children. Maybe that angle needs to be played out some more if circumstances warrant when trying to discharge SL's.
As someone posted, this case just had about every bad outcome that could happen to a family short of death. The circumstances will be difficult to replicate.
QUOTE(SuperMike1992 @ Jan 12 2006, 07:26 AM)
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
It is absolutely essential that anyone contemplating ANY action related to credit matters understand what they are getting into. Horror stories abound of people that followed a course of action based upon some snippet of a thread they read on the web and wound up in far worse trouble than they were to start with. And the reality of student loans is that they don't go away as easily as some would make it out to be.
QUOTE
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
The other thing in the Reynolds case that is overlooked by many is that there was a lengthy history of mental distress that predated the student loans. It was not simply an issue of someone being stressed post-graduation over repayment and then claiming interference with enjoyment of life.
Success post-graduation should not even be an element in the equation for the simple reason that it is no different than buyer's remorse at some point after entering into a mortgage or vehicle loan.
The Chuck Stewart book is available from Amazon but only as a third party. Amazon will
collect your money and then forward it to the author once it has confirmed shipment. I am not advocating or dismissing this book, just stating its availability. Thanks
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
Mike, we are not stopping anyone from doing anything. We give advice on this board, based on experience. We're not lawyers, we don't pretend to be. If someone posts in public that they are a lawyer, and ths is their advice -BEWARE. That facts are, it is extremely difficult, near impossible, to get a SL bk'd or discharged on hardship basis. Our guiding principle is, people can take what they hear on this board, and act on it with the confidence that they will not get into any more trouble than they are already in when they get here (I know the grammar is bad).
We're not going to change this.
Neither are we going off into the politics of any of it. This is the way it is. You are free to dsagree, but that's as far as you can take it.
We have a vision (goal, plan) for this board. It does not include radical experimentation with the legal system - You can go to the slave site for that. That's why I allowed the link. It also does not include taking a political position, discussing politics, or allowing topics to veer off into politics. The closest we come to that on this board is to advise memers (by announcement) of pending legislation that they may want to study, and of means to let their legislators know how they feel. Technically, an announcement does not allow replies, so there is no discussion here. People are invited to discuss the politics of it at http://www.politicsfirst.com
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed
in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
It sounds like you think the stress of having to repay the loan is the impairment that qualifies one to have their loan fogiven. Excuse me, but catch 22 applies. You are crazy if you believe that. But that kind of crazy will not get your loan discharged. In the summary we have, this gal had received treatment for a mental condition for most of her life. DOE appealed the lower court's decision twice.
Good luck and let us know how it goes - if you are successful, we will pay attention, I promise.
*******
One more note on our attitude towards people who come here and post about this more radical approach. You can post about it. But please post this as your own experience, not as authoritative advice. You may find a mod or admin qualifying your post, or contributing to your thread, to make our POV clear. This is not an attack, but we don't want new people who come here to see this as the board's position on how to deal with SL's.
Also, please don't attack our advice as "working for the CA's and OC's" - we don't. As stated previously, we give advice based on the existing legal framework. If there were a law that could be used to the debtor's advantage, we would use it. We do take a hard line on this, because wishing doesn't make it true. Somewhere down the line, people who take our advice will be living with the results. What you advocate is similar to refusing to pay taxes because you disagree with the tax law. You can disagree all you want, and you can try to change the laws - but you better pay your taxes in the meantime. Same with SL's.
If Susie Q comes here, two years out of college, and says "I quit working to have a baby, now i want to stay home, but I can't pay my SL's" - we are going to tell her she better find a way to pay that loan now. We aren't going to say "go see a shrink and build a track record of mental illness so you can get your SL's bk'd."
collect your money and then forward it to the author once it has confirmed shipment. I am not advocating or dismissing this book, just stating its availability. Thanks
I find this thread disturbing. There are not supposed to be any political statements made on CB. Yet those who posted possible ways to discharge student loans are met with harsh and frequent criticism. Those of us in the know realize that SLs are extremely difficult to discharge whether by BK, compromise or writeoff. We can all tell everyone what the law is now and what their chances are. But must this board deny those who seek the long shot? Please allow them to pursue their hopes even if it is a dismal chance. Tell them the truth of current student loan law but also allow them to make their own decisions.
Mike, we are not stopping anyone from doing anything. We give advice on this board, based on experience. We're not lawyers, we don't pretend to be. If someone posts in public that they are a lawyer, and ths is their advice -BEWARE. That facts are, it is extremely difficult, near impossible, to get a SL bk'd or discharged on hardship basis. Our guiding principle is, people can take what they hear on this board, and act on it with the confidence that they will not get into any more trouble than they are already in when they get here (I know the grammar is bad).
We're not going to change this.
Neither are we going off into the politics of any of it. This is the way it is. You are free to dsagree, but that's as far as you can take it.
We have a vision (goal, plan) for this board. It does not include radical experimentation with the legal system - You can go to the slave site for that. That's why I allowed the link. It also does not include taking a political position, discussing politics, or allowing topics to veer off into politics. The closest we come to that on this board is to advise memers (by announcement) of pending legislation that they may want to study, and of means to let their legislators know how they feel. Technically, an announcement does not allow replies, so there is no discussion here. People are invited to discuss the politics of it at http://www.politicsfirst.com
Reynolds is an interesting case. I think the main part of this case is that a SL borrower who has suffered
emotional or mental damage that impacts their ability to enjoy life and repay their loans should get a full or partial discharge of their loans. This is not the greatest case for SL borrowers but it does help those who
borrow for school then run into financial problems later. Not every student who goes to school will succeed
in life, but the govt does not seem to care about that. At the risk of going political, I must stop now.
It sounds like you think the stress of having to repay the loan is the impairment that qualifies one to have their loan fogiven. Excuse me, but catch 22 applies. You are crazy if you believe that. But that kind of crazy will not get your loan discharged. In the summary we have, this gal had received treatment for a mental condition for most of her life. DOE appealed the lower court's decision twice.
Good luck and let us know how it goes - if you are successful, we will pay attention, I promise.
*******
One more note on our attitude towards people who come here and post about this more radical approach. You can post about it. But please post this as your own experience, not as authoritative advice. You may find a mod or admin qualifying your post, or contributing to your thread, to make our POV clear. This is not an attack, but we don't want new people who come here to see this as the board's position on how to deal with SL's.
Also, please don't attack our advice as "working for the CA's and OC's" - we don't. As stated previously, we give advice based on the existing legal framework. If there were a law that could be used to the debtor's advantage, we would use it. We do take a hard line on this, because wishing doesn't make it true. Somewhere down the line, people who take our advice will be living with the results. What you advocate is similar to refusing to pay taxes because you disagree with the tax law. You can disagree all you want, and you can try to change the laws - but you better pay your taxes in the meantime. Same with SL's.
If Susie Q comes here, two years out of college, and says "I quit working to have a baby, now i want to stay home, but I can't pay my SL's" - we are going to tell her she better find a way to pay that loan now. We aren't going to say "go see a shrink and build a track record of mental illness so you can get your SL's bk'd."
Centex said it in way fewer words!! 
Thanks Breeze, Centax and all those who responded.
I enjoyed the responses to the Reynolds case. I like to see a diversity of opinions.
Like I said before, I dont think this is a super case to help student loan borrowers but
it does raise a new issue...that being the stress of overburdening SLs causing the borrower
to endure emotional and mental stress that prevents them from repaying such loans. It is
true that this will not help most borrowers but it may help a few. Previous problems may be
needed to successfully use this argument.
I understand your approach to new visitors to this site. We all know that student loans are
almost impossible to discharge. That fact should be stated everytime. But to that one percent
who may qualify we should also help them. At least tell them there are some ways to get out
of the loans if you are in really dire straits. Besides the hardship proceeding in BK there are also
compromise and writeoff procedures available. Even tho I know a lot about student loans, I
know little about compromise and writeoffs so I'd like to hear more about them.
We should be honest with all posters about their chances of getting rid of their SLs. Yes it is
extremely unlikely based on current law but in certain circumstances it can be done. This board
seems to just state the dire circumstances that will befall most, but not all, borrowers. I do
better understand your goals based upon the last post. And you are right, most borrowers
should follow your advice as they will not qualify for one of the narrowly defined ways out of
the SL maze. But a few may and those are the ones I wish to help.
At the risk of sounding political, I believe that if enough people fight the current laws then those
laws will be changed. It is true that most people should not attempt this as they could find
themselves in a worse situation. But there is strength in numbers. The more who fight, the
better the chance of a change in the law.
I have gone on too long. But as a final statement, I must mention Susie Q. In your scenario,
she was a stay at home wife. Depending on whether she lives in community property state or
not, the lenders may or may not have the ability to collect from hubbie's income. That is what
I'm talking about. There are many factors that can make someone immune from a student loan.
Can we explore those here on this board or is this board a rubberstamp for the lenders?
Please tell me.
I enjoyed the responses to the Reynolds case. I like to see a diversity of opinions.
Like I said before, I dont think this is a super case to help student loan borrowers but
it does raise a new issue...that being the stress of overburdening SLs causing the borrower
to endure emotional and mental stress that prevents them from repaying such loans. It is
true that this will not help most borrowers but it may help a few. Previous problems may be
needed to successfully use this argument.
I understand your approach to new visitors to this site. We all know that student loans are
almost impossible to discharge. That fact should be stated everytime. But to that one percent
who may qualify we should also help them. At least tell them there are some ways to get out
of the loans if you are in really dire straits. Besides the hardship proceeding in BK there are also
compromise and writeoff procedures available. Even tho I know a lot about student loans, I
know little about compromise and writeoffs so I'd like to hear more about them.
We should be honest with all posters about their chances of getting rid of their SLs. Yes it is
extremely unlikely based on current law but in certain circumstances it can be done. This board
seems to just state the dire circumstances that will befall most, but not all, borrowers. I do
better understand your goals based upon the last post. And you are right, most borrowers
should follow your advice as they will not qualify for one of the narrowly defined ways out of
the SL maze. But a few may and those are the ones I wish to help.
At the risk of sounding political, I believe that if enough people fight the current laws then those
laws will be changed. It is true that most people should not attempt this as they could find
themselves in a worse situation. But there is strength in numbers. The more who fight, the
better the chance of a change in the law.
I have gone on too long. But as a final statement, I must mention Susie Q. In your scenario,
she was a stay at home wife. Depending on whether she lives in community property state or
not, the lenders may or may not have the ability to collect from hubbie's income. That is what
I'm talking about. There are many factors that can make someone immune from a student loan.
Can we explore those here on this board or is this board a rubberstamp for the lenders?
Please tell me.
OK, let me address a couple of things here before we proceed. First of all, the tone of your posts sounds like you plan to render your approval or disapproval of our site. Let me make clear that I am not seeking anyone's approval, I'm just being nice. Secondly, you keep mentioning politics. Fla-tan is the moderator of this board, and I believe that when this came up a while back, you accepted our terms - that we do not go into the politics of credit and the credit industry. Now, you can stop with the politics, and the sideways, muted challenges to our policy. We are not about politics. We aren't going to change. I'm being nice, discussing the concerns of people who have come here with a specific purpose, which is parallel to our purpose, but IS NOT our purpose. You "speak" as if you are used to having authority. You may be disappointed here in that regard. I will be glad to create a forum on politics first for discussing credit and related issues as they relate to politics, but we aren't going to do it here. This is not up for discussion or debate. We're not going to do it.
We don't give legal advice. If someone wants to challenge existing law by taking it to court, they need to make that decision on their own. We're not going in that direction. I allowed the links to the studentloanslave.org site for just that purpose. Feel free to use it. They are all about activism. We are not, and we do not pllan to change, whether you call us shills or anything else, even if you couch it in other words. No, we aren't interested. That's not our purpose. Not up for discussion or debate.
If someone possibly qualifies to have their loans discharge or dismissed, we refer them to the lawyers. Again, we don't give legal advice, we aren't lawyers. Most people do not. We are here to help the people who do not qualify. Our first thought is not "how can this person get out of this?" Your first thought apparently is exactly that.
We are giving people practical advice that works under the existing system. We're not here for people to beat their heads bloody fighting the system, while they piss and moan about how unfair it all is. It doesn't help. We're not arguing for the system, we are helping people deal with the system, because it is reality.
We don't give legal advice. If someone wants to challenge existing law by taking it to court, they need to make that decision on their own. We're not going in that direction. I allowed the links to the studentloanslave.org site for just that purpose. Feel free to use it. They are all about activism. We are not, and we do not pllan to change, whether you call us shills or anything else, even if you couch it in other words. No, we aren't interested. That's not our purpose. Not up for discussion or debate.
If someone possibly qualifies to have their loans discharge or dismissed, we refer them to the lawyers. Again, we don't give legal advice, we aren't lawyers. Most people do not. We are here to help the people who do not qualify. Our first thought is not "how can this person get out of this?" Your first thought apparently is exactly that.
QUOTE
But a few may and those are the ones I wish to help.
Fine, start your own site for self help, where you are the one with the legal liability. We are not taking that on. Not up for discussion or debate.We are giving people practical advice that works under the existing system. We're not here for people to beat their heads bloody fighting the system, while they piss and moan about how unfair it all is. It doesn't help. We're not arguing for the system, we are helping people deal with the system, because it is reality.
QUOTE
At the risk of sounding political
Excuse me, but enough is enough. Knock it off.QUOTE
I believe that if enough people fight the current laws then those
laws will be changed. It is true that most people should not attempt this as they could find
themselves in a worse situation. But there is strength in numbers. The more who fight, the
better the chance of a change in the law.
http://www.studentloanslave.org. - anyone who wants to join is free to do that. laws will be changed. It is true that most people should not attempt this as they could find
themselves in a worse situation. But there is strength in numbers. The more who fight, the
better the chance of a change in the law.
QUOTE
or is this board a rubberstamp for the lenders?
Please tell me.
Again, enough is enough. If you don't like us, go away. You won't. Why? Because we have the audience you want. Why do we have them? Because our advice helps. We aren't going to change.
Please tell me.
SuperMike1992,
I enjoy reading your posts. We could really use you at StudenLoanSLAVE for more of your ideas.
I want to see that forum grow in the direction that you are heading. (changing current laws) This site
is basically here to help people get back on track to help people pay their loans. I would love to see
more dialogue on the StudentLoanSlave site. Lets get that growing so laws can be changed!
SLAVE
I enjoy reading your posts. We could really use you at StudenLoanSLAVE for more of your ideas.
I want to see that forum grow in the direction that you are heading. (changing current laws) This site
is basically here to help people get back on track to help people pay their loans. I would love to see
more dialogue on the StudentLoanSlave site. Lets get that growing so laws can be changed!
SLAVE
That's a good idea. That was my purpose in posting the link. CB maintains friendly relationships with other boards, and we have no objection to linking to the slave site.
I think many people who find that site, follow their links, find us, and expect us to have the same attitude. Since CB is very active, it's natural that they want to post their ideas here. They're met with big-time resistance. We are different sites with different purposes, but we're not in competition or opposition. CB is not opposed to activism, we just don't want to do it here. The most you will ever see here is an announcement that there is important legislation pending, and info about how to contact your representatives. These announcements are closed to discussion, to avoid the political firestorm that will naturally follow. We also work with the press whenever we have the opportunity, because they can accomplish a lot with just a few paragraphs. One of our members was on NBC nightly news on Monday night. We were in the WSJ last week. We contributed background info for the PBS piece on credit cards. There are many others like that. That's our kind of activism. We keep our objectives clear, and go about our business. Both the people, and the opportunities to make our issues public, have come to us - we feel it's precisely because we stick to our primary purpose.
disclaimer: CB has no control over the content or advice given on other boards; but then, our members know that, and can make their own decisions.
I think many people who find that site, follow their links, find us, and expect us to have the same attitude. Since CB is very active, it's natural that they want to post their ideas here. They're met with big-time resistance. We are different sites with different purposes, but we're not in competition or opposition. CB is not opposed to activism, we just don't want to do it here. The most you will ever see here is an announcement that there is important legislation pending, and info about how to contact your representatives. These announcements are closed to discussion, to avoid the political firestorm that will naturally follow. We also work with the press whenever we have the opportunity, because they can accomplish a lot with just a few paragraphs. One of our members was on NBC nightly news on Monday night. We were in the WSJ last week. We contributed background info for the PBS piece on credit cards. There are many others like that. That's our kind of activism. We keep our objectives clear, and go about our business. Both the people, and the opportunities to make our issues public, have come to us - we feel it's precisely because we stick to our primary purpose.
disclaimer: CB has no control over the content or advice given on other boards; but then, our members know that, and can make their own decisions.
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