creditpow

Thought I'd bump this little gem from 2003.... I'm actually looking at doing a re-fi and was on myfico.com today wondering what happened to the experian option....Should have checked here first ....lol Look at the first post of this thread.....Oh the irony...... -creditpow

I bet if not for the high bal, the NSF woulda just cost you $39 or whatever they charge now... I would definitely call citi now and talk to them. Update Mon 7:55am I just spoke with the credit management department at Citi.... They confirmed Toopooor's theory. In a review of my credit report, they determined that my utilization was too high with other creditors, and was the reason for my account closure. Furthermore, they have also closed my other Citi accounts (the store cards like home depot)... Lastly, they told me that these accounts could not be re-opened in the future, but that I was welcome to apply for a new account at a later date. The individual I spoke with was polite, but even me being a customer for 12 years, there was "nothing they could do". Well, that was a fun phone call as you can imagine. I hope my experience can serve as a warning to others. Even if you have outstanding payment history on all your accounts, and are a profitable customer to the bank...simply running a high balance makes you a candidate for the chopping block. Now the only decision left to make is after I pay these balances down next month.... Do I focus on, and enhance the relationships/accounts I have with other banks? (I have good reward accounts with my credit union and Chase)....or..... Do I write a letter to Citi formally expressing my disgust with how they've treated a longtime customer, and request the accounts be re-evaluated? My gut reaction is to take my money and my business to a company that values both. However, the creditboard, practical side of me says its worth trying to keep a long standing account, for the positive role it plays on my credit report. I'm interested to hear what any of you would do in this situation? -creditpow

in normal times, that is probably what would happen... but these are not normal times. We also don't know if they did an AR after the NSF... if they did the high utility could be the killer, not the NSF. One NSF generally doesn't get an acct closed, just as one late pay usually isn't a problem... OP hasn't said how high utility is - if the cards are essentially maxed or just at like 50 -60% each... but if they are near maxed out the NSF just got their attention and the real reason is the high utility. The OP really needs to call citi and explain his situation - if tis just the NSF he has a chance to get them reopened. Chase CLD me from 32K to 8 earlier in the week because of an AR. I had just paid one card to 0 bal, the other acct was under 5% utility, the 3rd had a BT at 50% utility. Why? Because too many accts with balances and high total debt during an AR. WTF? It's christmas... i used my store cards. The reason satisfied the analyst and after a review (job history & income, no hard pull) i got my limits back. toopooor - I think you hit the nail on the head..... Your post got me me curious, so I just took a peek at Equifax, and here's what I found... AR-CITI CARDS CBSDNA 01/11/08 This was the same day as the NSF (and the day prior to the account closure) To answer your other question, the Citi card and a couple of my other major cards are close to max right now. This is not the ideal position to be in I realize of course...and probably factored strongly into their decision. This past year, I've been helping my wife get her business launched....so it was a calculated decision to carry those balances (and pay interest for the privilege ) for a while, in exchange for a future increase in household income. My income is sufficient to make the payments regardless of the success or failure of that venture.....and in fact I have been faithfully paying on all my obligations. I've also got 7 years at current employer and am a homeowner with healthy amount of equity. I'll be paying off a significant percentage of the revolving debt next month, between a yearly bonus and tax return. That should help the overall situation I would imagine. I admit I'm a bit naive as to the way these companies operate. It had been my general impression over the years that all of the statistical risk modeling applied primarily to the decision process whether to give someone a loan (CC or otherwise) or not. Once the account was established, I thought it basically boiled down to whether or not they were getting their money repaid as agreed or not. I'm sure this continuous evaluation process of whether or not you're worthy to remain a customer, based on factors other than payment history is not news to many folks on this board....but it was an eye opener for me.... More to come.... -creditpow

I agree - even though the letter didn't mention it...I have to believe it played a large role in their decision. Also, in 12 years with them, it's the only time I can remember an NSF occuring...so this was an isolated incident. I think you're right. And given the current environment, I am sure you can understand Citi's position. It does suck, though. In some ways I can see the logic, and some ways not.... In this environment, where they've already lost so much money, due to previous loose lending standards, they are taking steps to reduce their exposure as much as possible. To the extent which my account represents an increased risk (in their opinion) due to the factors I described, I can understand their position somewhat. I'm the type of person that takes full responsibility for my actions, and that being said, I understand that they've made a business decision based on the available data. However, here is the flip side to the argument....If I was a Citi shareholder...in the current environment...I'm not sure how thrilled I would be at the bank dumping a longtime performing asset, because they've determined that the asset might be a problem in the future. Obviously, I'm nobody to a company of their size, and it could be that they are simply doing some limited account housekeeping, and I didn't make the cut. However if this is more widespread, I openly question whether emabarking on qwest for a short term economic recovery by alienating your best customers is in the best long term interest of the organization. I appreciate everyone who posted words of support. I will post an update to let everyone know what they say (as far as a reason) when I call them tomorrow. -creditpow

Well....Just opened the mail tonight, to find this little gem from Citi... "We have closed your accounts listed below based on information obtained from a consumer reporting agency" The account in question is a visa card which I've had for over 12 years (in fact, it is my oldest tradeline). They list equifax as the CRA they used, and provide no other information as to their reasons. I just got off the phone with customer service, who also could provide absolutely zero information other than to provide a number for the credit management department, which doesn't work weekends naturally. It sounds like I'm not the first CBer this has happened to in the last couple of months. Right now I feel a mixture of disappointment in losing this account, along with anger and frustration with Citibank....which I have other accounts with as well (Sears and Home depot). However, I thought I would try and take a step back and look at this as objectively as I could, for my own understanding of the situation, and anyone else would might be in this same boat (or could be). Here is the background on the account.... Opened in 1995 (had $300 CL back then....it's up to $7,000 now) Credit report shows perfect payment history (zero 30 day lates) Occasionally over the years paid a couple of days past the due date - late fee incurred...but not late to CRA Usually carry a balance, which has been up and down over the years (currently high) Applied for CLI increase in November - denied January 10th - submitted online payment for Jan payment January 11th - payment rejected by my bank NSF (first time this has happened, my fault for not transferring adequate funds to checking) January 12th - VISA account closed (just found out today though) January 13th - automatically resubmitted electronic payment clears my checking My best guess is that the NSF (coupled with high utilization and perhaps the CLI request) spooked them into closing the account. However, the letter only refers to the CRA report....but the timing is just so coincidental.... Credit report highlights Equifax FICO = 637 High utilization on most revolving accounts All accounts in good standing (last late payment was 2001) 2 accounts opened within last 12 months A couple of mortgage (re-fi) inquires in last 30-60 days I can only assume that they've made a business decision that my account has a level of risk that they now deem unacceptable. Ironically, in these tough economic times (Citi has taken substantial losses recently if you weren't aware already), they need loyal (and profitable) customers more than ever. I had always been under the impression that folks that paid their bills but carried balances were highly valued by banks. Apparently I was mistaken. Someone mentioned in another thread that they are on a hair trigger for closing accounts right now....I can certainly attest to that....Even long standing accounts with good history are fair game if they get nervous or you give them an excuse. Bottom line is that I can live without Citi, as they have made clear they don't want my business any longer. Thanks for listening to me vent....wasn't a decision I saw coming. I just thought I would share my story, as it appears this might not be an isolated incident and any policy decisions by a player as large as Citi has far reaching consequences, . -creditpow

liverichly, Thank you for the very informative responses. This basically confirmed my suspicion that credit standards are a bit higher for these types of deals. Sounds like good news on the rate, however, as long as you throw some down payment at the deal. I was afraid the rate would be much higher on a NOO. As far as the liquid reserves...a couple of thousand underwater stock options probably wouldn't light a fire under any underwriters I assume?

Making a generalization such as this confirms your noob status as an investor. 800s <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well...I fully admit I'm a noob investor However, I was just quoting some of the doom and gloom analysts out there. If I were to believe the hype, I wouldn't be considering a move into this arena. rknight29 - That's not a bad idea, starting off being a bottomfeeder as you call it. I know several people who have slowly built significant wealth through property, and I'm willing to be patient.

Thanks guys...I read both posts...thanks for pointing me in the right direction I pretty much assumed it was both, however, some of my confusion actually came from myfico.com itself. On their score simulator, it lumps up everything into total revolving debt and asks how much you would apply toward it - implying that is the whole picture...

I know this question has been asked before...I did use the search function, and I have not found a definitive answer. If I missed it in a stickie somewhere, I apologize, please point me the right direction... Anyway, bottom line, does the revolving utilization portion of your FICO score take into account total balances versus total available credit, or do they calculate each one individually? I have about 6K spread over 6 revolving accounts, 90-95% utilized on each one. I am going to be applying for a refi very soon, and I have about 4K to throw at these accounts. I want to get the biggest bang for my buck FICO wise in a short period of time. Most all of these account hit the CRAs shortly after statement close. If I spread the 4K proportionally across the cards to get around 30% utilization across the board, it will take 4-6 weeks for CRA/FICO update. A couple of the larger balance account close within the week, and therefore will update soon with the CRAs. I could pay them nearly in full, and leave the other 3 or 4 smaller accounts close to maxed. Any of the gurus know for sure how the score is calculated? Thanks, -creditpow

I'm not sure if there is any way out of paying closing costs, but there are ways to roll it into the loan. One way is through a "gifting" program through a third party that fronts the money, and then is paid back from loan proceeds (plus their fee). There are several companies out there that do this.

As everyone is no doubt aware, many analysts are sounding the warning of impending disaster when the "housing bubble" bursts. Whether or not that is true, the fact remains that the US market is hot right now, and no one can predict with certainly when it will end, and whether or not the eventual corrections will be national or regional. We feel forunate to have already purchased our primary residence a couple of years ago, and realized a very nice gain in equity. I know many others are still striving for their dreams, and I truly wish them good luck, it was one of the best things we've done. That being said, we've discussed dipping our toes in the investment property water, and we admittedly know just a shade more than zero about how to go about it. I know there are countless books etc on the subject that go into details on property managment etc - but I had some specific mortgage questions that either a mortgage pro, or an perhaps an investor can answer... 1) With all other factors being equal (credit score, down payment, assets etc) what is the average difference in interest rate between an owner occupied single family home and a non-owner occupied single family home? The same, .5%,1%,2% ? 2) Are there lenders that do 100% LTV on non-owner occupied? If so, what kind of mid-score would be required? If not, what kind of LTV is required for a NOO mortgage? 3) If money were to be put down, can it come from an equity line from another home? 4) If the plan is to rent the house out, which would obviously significantly offset the mortgage, can this be factored into income? I did a search on the board, and read a post from liverichly. It stated that most lenders will use 75% as rental income if you have two years landlord experience, but that exceptions can be made. First off, even if you do have the experience, do the tenants have to be lined up already, or does the lender use 75% as an average, probable figure of what future tenants would pay? Under what conditions are exceptions made to the two year rule? When you are doing you first rental property, are folks stuck with having to find a way to qualify based on their existing income? 5) Do ARM/option ARMs have higher credit standards than standard fixed rate loans? 6) Are the closing costs the same/lower/higher on a non-owner occupied loan versus owner occupied? I know this is a lot of questions, but I'm guessing there might be some other folks who might be interested in the answers as well. Any and all feedback is appreciated. -creditpow

That's a very broad question, but the bottom line, is that just about anyone can purchase a home, no matter their down payment or their credit. The variable of course, is the kind of terms you would get. From what I've seen, generally you need a mid score in the 600-620 range to start qualifying for "decent" rates. However, that's not a hard and fast rule, and will vary lender to lender. I've seen posts on this boards post stories of qualifying below 600. Also, some programs aren't score driven - like FHA. They look at the credit report and especially the recent history to make their decisions.

I can directly relate... Two years ago, we bought our first home with an 80/20. At the time, we debated whether or not to save for additional months/years for a big downpayment. Home prices in our area have appreciated around 8-10% a year. While this is decent, it is small compared to many areas of the country. Even with these relatively modest increase, that has given us 40-50 thousand in equity in two years! I am sure with more down, and better FICOs, we could have secured a better rate/terms (and now we are now looking to re-fi), but looking back - it's difficult to imagine moving forward not being the right decision. While we will have paid more in interest over the last two years than the person with a 750 FICO and 20% down, if we had waited, we would have simply watched home prices rise faster than our ability to save money. I don't know what part of the country you live in, or what your long terms goals of ownership are. However, as pavlov mentioned, there are a ton of programs out there. Talk to a good broker - your goal may be closer than you think. -creditpow

Congrats - I'm sure it's a great feeling!

I'm no expert, but there are tons of different programs out there to look at. I think some lenders want the money to be seasoned on your bank statements for 3 months +, but some other lenders/programs don't have this requirement. While I'm sure that having the 20% down from your own funds would be better, it seems a stretch to say this would look "bad". I'm guessing that having the 20% down no matter the source would put you in a better position than not having it. Maybe one of the mortgage pros can chime in here...Good luck with everything! -creditpow