58 replies to this topic

[orangecrush]

http://www.clickorla...az/-/index.html

http://www.clickorla...uz/-/index.html

[road2freedom]

wtf... if that's the entire story, that's really messed up.

[blackberry74]

I believe it. Schools are sticklers about those medical forms being signed - no form, no meds...even if it's something like a simple Motrin or Advil. They're scared of the liability. But I don't see a how a nurse just stood there and watched the boy basically suffocate right in front of her. She didn't even call 911...WTF?

[brazen]

I believe it. Schools are sticklers about those medical forms being signed - no form, no meds...even if it's something like a simple Motrin or Advil. They're scared of the liability. But I don't see a how a nurse just stood there and watched the boy basically suffocate right in front of her. She didn't even call 911...WTF?

this

[orangecrush]

I believe it. Schools are sticklers about those medical forms being signed - no form, no meds...even if it's something like a simple Motrin or Advil. They're scared of the liability. But I don't see a how a nurse just stood there and watched the boy basically suffocate right in front of her. She didn't even call 911...WTF?

Exactly. I would have put her in a choke hold, so she would know how it feels.

[blackberry74]

That's the part that took me over the edge. I can get why you didn't give him the inhaler - but you took the time to call ME but not 911 and then watched as he passed out? After you locked him in the room? After I made sure my baby was okay, that door would have been locked again and some furniture would be movin' around in there. Madness.

[Sniper762]

This is what happens when everything is driven by "policy and procedures"....

The ultimate crutch of the weak and infective.

[Nemeweh]

I almost stopped reading when I saw this...

DELTONA, Fla

But I forged onward until I got to this...

"As soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse's office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack," Rudi said.

And thought it should have ended along these lines...

"After I took my son to the hospital, and he was stabilized... I went back to the school and stabbed the Nurse and the Principal in the face with that medical release form. I may also burned down the school district building and a few superintendent's houses."

[orangecrush]

And thought it should have ended along these lines...

"After I took my son to the hospital, and he was stabilized... I went back to the school and stabbed the Nurse and the Principal in the face with that medical release form. I may also burned down the school district building and a few superintendent's houses."

It's Deltona. That is how it normally would have ended. I figure his mother is from up North or something...

[orangecrush]

http://www.wesh.com/...650/detail.html

"The student was obviously upset because we had taken the medication from him. The nurse felt he was becoming a little bit aggressive, and she felt threatened, so she closed her door. The administrator took the student into his office and kept him there until mom was at the school," said Nancy Wait, spokeswoman of the Volusia County Schools.

"This is absolute disregard for human life. How can you watch a human being suffocated and do nothing?" said Susan Rudi.

"The way it's being portrayed is not how it happened," Wait said. "The student was never in a full-blown asthma attack. The administrator and the school nurse, who is a licensed practical nurse, were both watching the student, and at no time did they determine that an ambulance needed to be called for this student. She followed protocol. It’s not only the schools district's policy to administer medication without the proper paperwork, it's a state law

Idiots. If they had erred on the side of caution and called 911, a mob wouldn't be out for their blood.

[sirrowan]

His paperwork should have been properly filled out. However, aren't they-the nurses-required to act in certain situations? Is it illegal to administer first aid? Are inhalers part of the school's first aid kits? She KNEW he was having an asthma attack. To use that to teach both him and his mother a lesson is just sick.

There are people in the health care field that are there for the paycheck only. It's scary!!!!

Oh and I wanted to add that the boy has been on this medicine for YEARS. They've had the proper paperwork every year. I don't see how not having it properly signed this year INVALIDATES the previous 10 years properly filled out/signed paperwork....

[sirrowan]

I almost stopped reading when I saw this...

DELTONA, Fla

But I forged onward until I got to this...

"As soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse's office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack," Rudi said.

And thought it should have ended along these lines...

"After I took my son to the hospital, and he was stabilized... I went back to the school and stabbed the Nurse and the Principal in the face with that medical release form. I may also burned down the school district building and a few superintendent's houses."

[Echo_X]

And the nurse or administrator is not in jail...why?

[road2freedom]

And the nurse or administrator is not in jail...why?

Because he didn't have skittles in this pocket.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

And the nurse or administrator is not in jail...why?

Because he didn't have skittles in this pocket.

That's awful.

[iH8cra]

The nurse was not allowed to give the medication. . The nurse followed the law by not giving any unapproved medications.

In regards to why didn't she do "something", that is potentially valid. It is a judgement call and an argument could be made that her judgement was faulty and therefore her inaction constituted professional negligence. I would assume that a nurse would notify the parents for a kid with a mild to moderate asthma attack who did not have any approved rescue inhalers. With a severe asthma attack, I would assume 911 would be called. A problem with this argument is that the kid became physically aggresive and the nurse felt that her safety was in jeapardy. In that case, the nurse's safety takes precedence over the child's issue regardless of what the issue is. Also, a person who is physically threatening a healthcare provider could be argued to be not severe because a patient in severe respiratory distress would not be able to effectively threaten someone. Still, I cannot imagine the nurse not doing anything. I think a minimum action would be to call the police for a security issue in the event that the nurse felt the medical issue was minor to moderate. I think the failure to even call security/police is going to be the biggest issue and it will cause the nurse to be found negligent.

Edited by iH8cra, 25 May 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[road2freedom]

Here's my question... given the severity of the situation, why not return the inhaler, which undoubtedly had been noted from previous years at the school, and likewise probably had his name and subscription information on the canister? She didn't have to medicate him. Why not just return his property and allow him to decide to medicate himself?

[iH8cra]

Here's my question... given the severity of the situation, why not return the inhaler, which undoubtedly had been noted from previous years at the school, and likewise probably had his name and subscription information on the canister? She didn't have to medicate him. Why not just return his property and allow him to decide to medicate himself?

Nurses are not allowed to provide unapproved medications to children. It doesn't matter that it has the child's name and prescription on it. The only allowable action is to give the medication to the responsible party which is the parent.

There's no middle ground under the law.

I'm aware that lots of children successfully hide thier inhalers and manage their own problems but if the child in not successful in hiding it, the nurse has a duty to confiscate the unapproved medication. Protip: Sign a medication release for anything you want given to your child.

[road2freedom]

Here's my question... given the severity of the situation, why not return the inhaler, which undoubtedly had been noted from previous years at the school, and likewise probably had his name and subscription information on the canister? She didn't have to medicate him. Why not just return his property and allow him to decide to medicate himself?

Nurses are not allowed to provide unapproved medications to children. It doesn't matter that it has the child's name and prescription on it. The only allowable action is to give the medication to the responsible party which is the parent.

There's no middle ground under the law.

I'm aware that lots of children successfully hide thier inhalers and manage their own problems but if the child in not successful in hiding it, the nurse has a duty to confiscate the unapproved medication. Protip: Sign a medication release for anything you want given to your child.

Unapproved by... the school? IMO a prescription is between a doctor and patient. I know what you are saying and why you are saying it (my wife is a teacher), but it doesn't make it the best decision in my eyes. I imagine a lawsuit over a death would be more troublesome than one for providing a medication that was prescribed by an actual doctor, not a nurse. There needs to be an emergency policy in place just for these situations. Logic should prevail at some point.

[Tigz]

It should also be noted that the nurse in question was a LPN not a RN.

[road2freedom]

Not too familiar with how they rank... I take it NP > RN > LPN?

[iH8cra]

Here's my question... given the severity of the situation, why not return the inhaler, which undoubtedly had been noted from previous years at the school, and likewise probably had his name and subscription information on the canister? She didn't have to medicate him. Why not just return his property and allow him to decide to medicate himself?

Nurses are not allowed to provide unapproved medications to children. It doesn't matter that it has the child's name and prescription on it. The only allowable action is to give the medication to the responsible party which is the parent.

There's no middle ground under the law.

I'm aware that lots of children successfully hide thier inhalers and manage their own problems but if the child in not successful in hiding it, the nurse has a duty to confiscate the unapproved medication. Protip: Sign a medication release for anything you want given to your child.

Unapproved by... the school? IMO a prescription is between a doctor and patient. I know what you are saying and why you are saying it (my wife is a teacher), but it doesn't make it the best decision in my eyes. I imagine a lawsuit over a death would be more troublesome than one for providing a medication that was prescribed by an actual doctor, not a nurse. There needs to be an emergency policy in place just for these situations. Logic should prevail at some point.

Logic has little to do with the law. The law is what the nurse is required to follow and if she does now follow it, she can be charged.

Prescriptions are between a doctor and a patient. A school nurse is required to have written permission from the parent to administer said medication. The parent can choose to personally medicate the child, medicate the child outside of school hours, or have the nurse do it for them with written permission.

It should also be noted that the nurse in question was a LPN not a RN.

I don't believe this is relevant. Both nurses would have the same duty.

Not too familiar with how they rank... I take it NP > RN > LPN?

Yes. NPs in many (most?) states can prescribe medications.

[jack1212]

Highest RN

Lower LPN

Both can give meds and it shouldn't make any difference.

As for the pt being combative or fighting, I have seen it many times. The pt becomes hypoxic, and oxygen to the brain is decreased. I had one 14 y/o who did it. She didn't
even recognize her parents she was so bad.

In any event, 911 should have been called. You're not gonna go wrong with that.

[beli]

I'm surprised no one's brought up the fact that the only reason the nurse HAS his prescription was because the school did a random locker check for drugs. What right does the school have for confiscating someone's prescription if it has the students name, dr's name etc? They can tell it's his by checking his ID.

I would assume that having a signed note would have been for things like aspirin, an epi pen etc for someone who didn't have one and had a sudden unknown allergic reaction. NOT the kids own medication that they shouldn't have had in the first damn place.

Edited by beli, 26 May 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[iH8cra]

As for the pt being combative or fighting, I have seen it many times. The pt becomes hypoxic, and oxygen to the brain is decreased. I had one 14 y/o who did it. She didn't
even recognize her parents she was so bad.

I dunno, I've seen hypoxic people get agitated but in my mind (ICU nurse), severe means almost status asthmaticus. You could be wheezing up a storm but if you can raise your fists, stand, or whatever it is that kid did that was threatening, then I'm just not impressed and wouldn't call it severe.

I'm surprised no one's brought up the fact that the only reason the nurse HAS his prescription was because the school did a random locker check for drugs. What right does the school have for confiscating someone's prescription if it has the students name, dr's name etc? They can tell it's his by checking his ID.

I would assume that having a signed note would have been for things like aspirin, an epi pen etc for someone who didn't have one and had a sudden unknown allergic reaction. NOT the kids own medication that they shouldn't have had in the first damn place.

Students are minors and are not allowed to keep drugs (illegal or prescribed) on school property. Only exception is for medications that are prescribed and have a release signed by the responsible party. In this case, the school had a duty to remove the drug from the minor's locker upon finding in.

Arguments can be made all day that this is stupid but this is the product of zero tolerance policies.