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How many ppls here has their home or properties in a TRUST?


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47 replies to this topic

#26 matty8199

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:32 PM

i'm confused by all of this...you're saying i should put my house in a trust? i don't understand what the advantages are...



#27 Unmet Potential

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

i'm confused by all of this...you're saying i should put my house in a trust? i don't understand what the advantages are...


for most people in most situations, there are none.
but, if you feel that the sky is falling, or if you're a relatively public figure, or you have extensive assets, it can make sense.
people think "oh if someone sues me, they can take my house" but in truth, there are homestead protections that cover MOST people.
and anyone who thinks that having the property in trust will protect if the suit arises BECAUSE of the property (for instance, a slip-and-fall on the property), is just mistaken. if the property owner is liable, that means the trust. if the property is the res of the trust, guess what? that's all that can be used to satisfy a judgment. AND, a trust does not receive homestead protections.

now i'll stop being a wet blanket. trusts can be useful and prudent. but one really should contact a trusts & estates lawyer.

#28 KristofsMom

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:04 PM



I hadn't heard of this before. Kinda pisses me off the lady at Wells Fargo Bank didn't mention it when we discussed the accounts wouldn't be in Mom's Trust. She made it very clear the money would not be available for 45 days once a death certificate was produced. I didn't push the issue as the beneficiary is well enough off that it won't be an issue to wait. But it would have been nice if WFB would have said something or offered up they have other ways to set up the account. One more reason I hate WFB...I'll check into this as long as there are no liability issues such as adding the beneficiary or myself as Joint Tenant to the accounts. That would not be a smart move to do that as it definitely puts Mom at risk of losing her liquid assets at this bank.


To be fair, WFB probably doesn't want their banking folks to give advice to customers on how to title an account. You can imagine how that could backfire badly on the bank.


I understand your comment, prudent - The only thing WFB is/was and will continue to be when it comes to customers accounts is greedy. It benefits WFB not to say anything as they will make money off the accounts being frozen for 45 days. I'm not willing to make an excuse for them although I see your point. A polite comment from the bank to check with Mom's attorney would have been a nice thing to do. But nothing. Just a very stern warning the money will be frozen. I'm a very polite and businesslike customer with them, but can't stand how they do business. There are better ways to handle customer accounts and WFB certainly has mastered how NOT to treat customers.



You are right in the way you feel! Banks are like attorneys... they just want to help out their pocket! This is why I started this topic about Trusts and properties!!

#29 Unmet Potential

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:37 PM




I hadn't heard of this before. Kinda pisses me off the lady at Wells Fargo Bank didn't mention it when we discussed the accounts wouldn't be in Mom's Trust. She made it very clear the money would not be available for 45 days once a death certificate was produced. I didn't push the issue as the beneficiary is well enough off that it won't be an issue to wait. But it would have been nice if WFB would have said something or offered up they have other ways to set up the account. One more reason I hate WFB...I'll check into this as long as there are no liability issues such as adding the beneficiary or myself as Joint Tenant to the accounts. That would not be a smart move to do that as it definitely puts Mom at risk of losing her liquid assets at this bank.


To be fair, WFB probably doesn't want their banking folks to give advice to customers on how to title an account. You can imagine how that could backfire badly on the bank.


I understand your comment, prudent - The only thing WFB is/was and will continue to be when it comes to customers accounts is greedy. It benefits WFB not to say anything as they will make money off the accounts being frozen for 45 days. I'm not willing to make an excuse for them although I see your point. A polite comment from the bank to check with Mom's attorney would have been a nice thing to do. But nothing. Just a very stern warning the money will be frozen. I'm a very polite and businesslike customer with them, but can't stand how they do business. There are better ways to handle customer accounts and WFB certainly has mastered how NOT to treat customers.



You are right in the way you feel! Banks are like attorneys... they just want to help out their pocket! This is why I started this topic about Trusts and properties!!


do-it-yourself trusts: a stupendous idea!

#30 KristofsMom

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:29 AM





I hadn't heard of this before. Kinda pisses me off the lady at Wells Fargo Bank didn't mention it when we discussed the accounts wouldn't be in Mom's Trust. She made it very clear the money would not be available for 45 days once a death certificate was produced. I didn't push the issue as the beneficiary is well enough off that it won't be an issue to wait. But it would have been nice if WFB would have said something or offered up they have other ways to set up the account. One more reason I hate WFB...I'll check into this as long as there are no liability issues such as adding the beneficiary or myself as Joint Tenant to the accounts. That would not be a smart move to do that as it definitely puts Mom at risk of losing her liquid assets at this bank.


To be fair, WFB probably doesn't want their banking folks to give advice to customers on how to title an account. You can imagine how that could backfire badly on the bank.


I understand your comment, prudent - The only thing WFB is/was and will continue to be when it comes to customers accounts is greedy. It benefits WFB not to say anything as they will make money off the accounts being frozen for 45 days. I'm not willing to make an excuse for them although I see your point. A polite comment from the bank to check with Mom's attorney would have been a nice thing to do. But nothing. Just a very stern warning the money will be frozen. I'm a very polite and businesslike customer with them, but can't stand how they do business. There are better ways to handle customer accounts and WFB certainly has mastered how NOT to treat customers.



You are right in the way you feel! Banks are like attorneys... they just want to help out their pocket! This is why I started this topic about Trusts and properties!!


do-it-yourself trusts: a stupendous idea!



Ummmm NOT a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. If anyone has any questions just PM me!

#31 cashnocredit

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:23 PM


do-it-yourself trusts: a stupendous idea!



Ummmm NOT a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. If anyone has any questions just PM me!


I think UP's comment expressed sarcasm.

I have doubts about how valuable your answers would be given that you suggested protecting assets against lawsuits via revocable trusts. You have two attorneys working for you? Perhaps you could have one of them post their legal opinion on how revocable trusts protect against lawsuits.

#32 Unmet Potential

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

edit: comment wasn't helpful, so deleting.

Edited by Unmet Potential, 02 May 2012 - 01:26 PM.


#33 Unmet Potential

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:24 PM

edit: i added nothing of importance.

Edited by Unmet Potential, 02 May 2012 - 01:26 PM.


#34 SportsNut

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:57 PM

Asset protection: The only value of a Revocable Trust, aka Land Trust if it hold real property, aka Inter Vivos Trust, is PRIVACY. If they can't find the asset then maybe they leave you alone.

However, lets by e.g. that a person is involved in some situation which could create liability. They find where the person lives, (pretty easy today) and you are living in a 500K house, not owned by you but owned by "Caribbean Investments Trust". The ownership wouldn't dissuade a half decent Atty from pursuing this as a lawsuit, assuming there was merit. Now, lets say that the Defendant in this suit really has 100 props all owned by Trusts, but not yet known by the Plaintiff (party suing). Things progress to the point that the Pl obtains a Judgment against the Def. One of the next steps is a Judgment Debtor Exam, meaning the Def would go on the stand in a courtroom, under oath, and be deposed about their assets, INCLUDING ANY BENEFICIAL INTERESTS IN A TRUST. So either you commit perjury or you divulge your assets at this point.

Once the assets are divulged, and for the sake of this example we are saying the Def owed big time bucks to the Pl, the Def can be forced to direct the Trustee to liquidate the assets, and once liquid the funds are absorbed.

Not much asset protection here. There are other benefits of the Revocable Trust such as avoiding probate and maybe that is a good idea depending on the circumstances. Although, for Grandmas house, and not a lot of other assets, some states recognize TOD Deeds; Transfer on Death Deeds, which means once a death cert is filed the property transfers w/o probating the asset. There might currently be 14 states that recognize TOD Deeds.

Edited by SportsNut, 02 May 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#35 hegemony

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:00 PM

get a 10 million dollar umbrella policy if your holders are not complicated enough for a trust.

#36 KristofsMom

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:03 AM



do-it-yourself trusts: a stupendous idea!



Ummmm NOT a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. If anyone has any questions just PM me!


I think UP's comment expressed sarcasm.

I have doubts about how valuable your answers would be given that you suggested protecting assets against lawsuits via revocable trusts. You have two attorneys working for you? Perhaps you could have one of them post their legal opinion on how revocable trusts protect against lawsuits.



I am sorry... I just got online today! Sorry, the attorneys that work for me can't answer legal questions online!(are you serious)

I didn't start this topic for a war, that why I asked if anyone wanted to PM me! However, I wanted to see how many people have protected their assest. Yes, most attorneys don't see what you owe and THEY will leave you alone! In my state.. this is a way to avoid probate!

I'm not trying to tell anyone to put you assests in a trust to do things illegal in any way shape or form!!!

I only thought this would shed some light on ppl who HAVE no clue what a trust is and/or think it's only for the wealthy ....... is ALL!

#37 SportsNut

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:18 AM




do-it-yourself trusts: a stupendous idea!



Ummmm NOT a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. If anyone has any questions just PM me!


I think UP's comment expressed sarcasm.

I have doubts about how valuable your answers would be given that you suggested protecting assets against lawsuits via revocable trusts. You have two attorneys working for you? Perhaps you could have one of them post their legal opinion on how revocable trusts protect against lawsuits.



I am sorry... I just got online today! Sorry, the attorneys that work for me can't answer legal questions online!(are you serious)

I didn't start this topic for a war, that why I asked if anyone wanted to PM me! However, I wanted to see how many people have protected their assest. Yes, most attorneys don't see what you owe and THEY will leave you alone! In my state.. this is a way to avoid probate!

I'm not trying to tell anyone to put you assests in a trust to do things illegal in any way shape or form!!!

I only thought this would shed some light on ppl who HAVE no clue what a trust is and/or think it's only for the wealthy ....... is ALL!


While you are shedding light on what a trust is, which is a decent idea, your posts and the thread give the illusion that there is some asset protection of a revocable living or land trust. There is NONE, except that you seem to think that the invisibility defense may cause an Atty to leave you alone. This just doesn't happen in real life.

Anyone who is half decent at digging around the courthouse for assets would be able to find enough a paper trail to tie you to the property personally. There are exceptions to this, but they would be the rarity, versus the other way around.

So let it be understood by anyone who reads this thread that a Revoacble Living (Land) Trust does not provide any asset protection. This is not to say that Trusts are not good, they can be a useful tool when fully understood, with the most notable benefit being the bypassing or elimination of probate procedings. I know many people that use them, but they have some drawbacks and short comings too, and best to understand those in advance as well.

No war intended here either, just a counter balance or explanation of some ideas about Trusts.

Edited by SportsNut, 07 May 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#38 cashnocredit

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:48 AM


I have doubts about how valuable your answers would be given that you suggested protecting assets against lawsuits via revocable trusts. You have two attorneys working for you? Perhaps you could have one of them post their legal opinion on how revocable trusts protect against lawsuits.



I am sorry... I just got online today! Sorry, the attorneys that work for me can't answer legal questions online!(are you serious)

I didn't start this topic for a war, that why I asked if anyone wanted to PM me! However, I wanted to see how many people have protected their assest. Yes, most attorneys don't see what you owe and THEY will leave you alone! In my state.. this is a way to avoid probate!

I'm not trying to tell anyone to put you assests in a trust to do things illegal in any way shape or form!!!

I only thought this would shed some light on ppl who HAVE no clue what a trust is and/or think it's only for the wealthy ....... is ALL!



Of course I'm serious. Lawyers discuss such general questions all the time. Online, in published books, etc. For instance there are lots of explanations on how corporations provide limit liability of investing shareholders from actions of the corporation. If revocable trusts provided asset protection it would be perfectly appropriate for lawyers to write about and publicly discuss it. It is not the same as providing specific legal advice to a client which is not done publicly.

Revocable trusts are useful for avoiding probate though. Wills can be more flexible and more easily adjust for changing financial pictures but they are easier for disgruntled heirs to attack which can delay things as well as run up legal costs. There are reasons for each and a good estate attorney can explain why and taylor advice to a client's situation.

#39 BobWang

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

I can't afford lawyers, and I'm not rich enough for trusts.

#40 Unmet Potential

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

I can't afford lawyers, and I'm not rich enough for trusts.


for BobWang, i'll work pro bono.

#41 BobWang

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:29 PM


I can't afford lawyers, and I'm not rich enough for trusts.


for BobWang, i'll work pro bono.

Now, THAT I can afford, barely. :P

#42 Unmet Potential

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

your pictures are payment enough.

#43 KristofsMom

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:51 PM

get a 10 million dollar umbrella policy if your holders are not complicated enough for a trust.


Yes, you can do this if you have the money.... nahhh jk.. an umbrella isn't that expensive!

#44 BobWang

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:53 PM


get a 10 million dollar umbrella policy if your holders are not complicated enough for a trust.


Yes, you can do this if you have the money.... nahhh jk.. an umbrella isn't that expensive!

I DO have those.

#45 KristofsMom

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:53 PM



I have doubts about how valuable your answers would be given that you suggested protecting assets against lawsuits via revocable trusts. You have two attorneys working for you? Perhaps you could have one of them post their legal opinion on how revocable trusts protect against lawsuits.



I am sorry... I just got online today! Sorry, the attorneys that work for me can't answer legal questions online!(are you serious)

I didn't start this topic for a war, that why I asked if anyone wanted to PM me! However, I wanted to see how many people have protected their assest. Yes, most attorneys don't see what you owe and THEY will leave you alone! In my state.. this is a way to avoid probate!

I'm not trying to tell anyone to put you assests in a trust to do things illegal in any way shape or form!!!

I only thought this would shed some light on ppl who HAVE no clue what a trust is and/or think it's only for the wealthy ....... is ALL!



Of course I'm serious. Lawyers discuss such general questions all the time. Online, in published books, etc. For instance there are lots of explanations on how corporations provide limit liability of investing shareholders from actions of the corporation. If revocable trusts provided asset protection it would be perfectly appropriate for lawyers to write about and publicly discuss it. It is not the same as providing specific legal advice to a client which is not done publicly.

Revocable trusts are useful for avoiding probate though. Wills can be more flexible and more easily adjust for changing financial pictures but they are easier for disgruntled heirs to attack which can delay things as well as run up legal costs. There are reasons for each and a good estate attorney can explain why and taylor advice to a client's situation.



Cashnocredit..
To be honest, they aren't memebers of this board. However,I will see if they don't mind joining to answer questions and etc. I think it could help people who have questions...

#46 KristofsMom

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:54 PM

I can't afford lawyers, and I'm not rich enough for trusts.



Bahahah....... you are tooo funny! Bob...... you know you are big balling and shot calling.. :yahoo:

#47 Link2k

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:12 PM



get a 10 million dollar umbrella policy if your holders are not complicated enough for a trust.


Yes, you can do this if you have the money.... nahhh jk.. an umbrella isn't that expensive!

I DO have those.


+1

First thing that came to mind reading this thread an umbrella policy is very affordable and offers actual monetary protections. As has been said a lawyer will find hidden assets, also they may find assets that don't belong to you but they think are yours (seen it happen). If they're willing to include relatives assets in a lawsuit because they think they may belong to you I'm not quite sure how hidden a trust would be.

Edited by Link2k, 07 May 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#48 Unmet Potential

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:46 PM

and, as i've said, a trust doesn't protect the property AT ALL in a premises liability situation.
insurance can cover, though.
trusts have their use, but, in your example of someone falling on the property, the trust is worthless.




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