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financing?


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67 replies to this topic

#1 Medsport

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:20 PM

Ok my lease is about to expire in about 2 months. My bk7 was discharged around last July and I have a credit card with a $500 limit 0% right now and a debit card. I currently have a Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0t track. Its a decent car and that's why I reaffirmed it. I did'nt think it would be a problem trading it in for a new one since I've never missed a payment nor been late. But the dealer doesn't seem to want to work with me and says a new one will be at least what I'm paying now and probably a little more even for another lease. Although I haven't taken my car in to get it appraised it sounds like I will most likely break-even. I currently pay $375 and would really like to stay around that price or less. I've come to realize a lease doesn't get you anywhere so I'm looking to purchase my next car even if its a longer term. I found a really good deal on a 2012 Mustang (I know another sports car), but they are really good cars now and get decent mileage. I got a deal of about 6k off MSRP because of the new models coming out. Problem is he could only find one place that would grant my financing and that was at 7.24% for 75 months. The payment would be around $435 or so and that's too high. I did find a guy that might buy my car which would give me about 3k to put down so that would make it right around $400 which may be doable. He has to sell his car first though so I don't know for sure. I did some searching on my own and after calling most of the banks and credit unions in the area (including mine), I only found one that would approve me. The rate is around 6.25, but they will only go to about 16k because of my debt to income ration (school loans mostly), but she didn't take into account my bonuses and occasional OT. I thought about buying out my lease, but it doesn't really make sense to take a 4 year loan on a 3 year old car with payments around what I'm paying now and I know the brakes and other things will start needing replaced and they are really expensive for this car.

I did some searching on here for good places to get a loan and tried Chase, but they didn't approve me. Any ideas what I should do or any good institutions to try for a loan? I was thinking maybe Cap. One, but the dealer said he already tried there. I was also thinking if that one guy sells his car so he can buy mine, I could use the 3k to get a beater to drive for a year or so and save up money for a bigger down payment around this time next year, but that hinges on whether he ends up buying it or not as he lives out of state.



#2 mk_378

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

If you discharged the car lease you can just send the car back to the bank at any time and owe nothing. Leased cars almost never have positive equity. Lots of people will say they want to buy your car but few will actually come up with the money. Don't sign a 75 month loan when you like to change cars more often than that.

Edited by mk_378, 10 April 2012 - 12:55 PM.


#3 MarvBear

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

Fresh out of BK

nd that was at 7.24%

take that and run. Just don't buy as expensive of a vehicle.

#4 Medsport

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:20 PM

If you discharged the car lease you can just send the car back to the bank at any time and owe nothing. Leased cars almost never have positive equity. Lots of people will say they want to buy your car but few will actually come up with the money. Don't sign a 75 month loan when you like to change cars more often than that.

I understand that, but there is a $400 disposition fee I believe and they look for any damage or excess wear and tear to charge you for which I don't think I have, but you never know. They reason I want to try to sell it is the payoff is about 16k and a guy on my car forum is interested in buying it for 19.5k since its a rare model and has low miles. The only catch is he has to sell his car too and it has a ton of mods on it. btw, I know 75 months is a long time, that's why I'm pretty sure I like this car I'm looking at and it definitely won't need any power mods (which I normally end up doing to my cars b/c they have always seem to lack the power I want). I don;t think 24k is too much to pay for it as most new family sedans cost around the same ballpark. I know I could get something cheaper like a compact, but know I won't be satisfied and would be locked into at least a 5 year contract. I hate to say it but maybe I should look into another lease. I've seen ads for mid-100 to mid-200's for cars for as short as 2 years. That way I wouldn't be locked in long-term and could save a little money during the term at least.

#5 mk_378

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

OK now I see you reaffirmed the lease. So yes you're obligated to the contract.

Like Marv said, a rate below 10% is good for a post-BK buyer. Most companies will not lease to someone with a BK. To keep the payment down you are going to have to buy a less expensive car.

#6 AKAGeorgiaGirl

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

Its a simple math problem. You said you were able to get approval @ 7.24% for 75 months, for a payment of about $435. That means you're financing approximately $26,200. You wisely don't want to finance it for so long - but even if you could get 0% APR then you're at $435+ for 5 years. The only ways to get a lower payment: a ) buy less car b ) pay more down or c ) finance for a longer period of time. And c isn't reliable because the longer you finance for, the higher APR you pay.

Edited by AKAGeorgiaGirl, 11 April 2012 - 07:15 AM.


#7 road2freedom

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:05 AM

A couple of thoughts after reading all of this...

Shopping based on "X off MSRP" is not a great way to tell if you are getting a good deal. Check out truecar, figure out the invoice, non-negotiable fees, holdback, and incentives, and work from there.

Are you a member of any credit unions? If not, join and see if they will offer you a better rate. Are you eligible for NFCU? You can join Alliant pretty easily. There are many others. From what I've seen in terms of rates, the banks are typically higher, especially for those with spotty credit. My local CU gave me nearly 3% less than CapOne.

You have not mentioned having money down (aside from the slim possibility of selling it in time). Do you have any down payment? Can you pay TTT on the transaction? Many will argue that it's better to do this but I know it's not always possible. I'm just interested for the sake of figuring out what you can afford.

Leasing may or not be an option. I've only heard from one other person on CB that got a lease with a recent BK and the kicker is you usually need a 700-720 score to qualify for the top tier, which makes the lease more affordable than traditional financing in many cases. The only way to know is to apply.

If you are trying to keep the payment $435 or less, assuming that same rate, you are going to have to consider some alternatives like GeorgiaGirl mentioned.
For 48 months you are looking around 18k.
Honda Civic
Kia Forte

For 60 months you are looking around 22k.
Scion tC
VW Golf

For 72 months you are looking around 25K.
VW GTI
Ford Mustang (base)
Hyundai Genesis (base)
Chevy Camaro (base)
Nissan Altima Coupe (base)
Honda Accord Coupe (base)

What are you looking for in a car? It seems like you tend to favor sporty coupes (I'm the same way) but are there any must-haves? Are you only looking for new? I've suggested a few options above. Trim and packages will vary based on what you can put down and TTT in your area. It's just an idea.

#8 MarvBear

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:36 PM

Its a simple math problem. You said you were able to get approval @ 7.24% for 75 months, for a payment of about $435. That means you're financing approximately $26,200. You wisely don't want to finance it for so long - but even if you could get 0% APR then you're at $435+ for 5 years. The only ways to get a lower payment: a ) buy less car b ) pay more down or c ) finance for a longer period of time. And c isn't reliable because the longer you finance for, the higher APR you pay.



You said that so nicely and succinctly. I need an assistant. :angel:

#9 Medsport

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:27 AM

Good post road2freedom. I actually did go through truecar and that's how the dealer called me. He's offering a deal of around 24.5 for a car that originally stickers around 30k (Mustang GT base). I was going to look at the Mustang V6 with a few options, but those don't have a big of a discount as the GT and I know I would end up getting mods for it to get more power, while the GT with the new motor that came out in 2011 will be more than enough and its actually a pretty efficient motor as long as you keep your foot out of it for a good part of the time. I currently have a 2010 Genesis Coupe 2.0t in which the lease is up in about 2 months. I considered getting another one of those since I have some mods on mine and a 2nd set of wheels/tires, but the 2013's have a 2k price bump across the board so the base model is still around 25.5k. I haven't actually gone to the dealer yet, but he was saying over the phone that best case a lease would be around what I'm paying now and possibly a little higher, although he said I may get about a grand of equity if they buy out my lease early. So if that's in the same ballpark as a GT and its 412 vs. 274hp seems like a no-brainer. Insurance is only about $7/m more for the Mustang too. The gen would get slightly better gas mileage, but requires premium while the stang only requires reg. so its about a wash there. I don't like the Camaro or Honda, not sure about the Nissan or VW though.

As far as paying, if that one guy that is interested in my car comes through (has to sell his car first) that would give me about 3k extra in cash to put down which would really help. I wouldn't really feel comfortable unless I could get it real close to $400. I do have a little money saved from tax time (about 2k), but really need a new computer and would like to get my ceiling fixed at some point and I'm guessing those will run about $500 and $750 or so. I actually did think about paying most of the TTT up front (approx. $1450) and that would put the payment around $410 or so, but I hate to not have a little cash as a buffer because you never know anymore and I lived paycheck-to-paycheck for years and it gets stressful. This is based on his new quote of around 24.5k which is better than the first quote of 25.5. But if I wait and see if that guy will buy my car it would lower it a bit, but the dealer would take off the $750 competitive discount so it would only be just over 2k better depending on the up-to-date quote that could go up or down. btw, the dealer did say my credit score was around 730 which surprised me. I already tried calling some credit unions in the area. One declined me because they have a 2 year after bk policy, but another did approve me for 16k for 60 month max at about 6.25. That kind of limits you to cheap compacts though. I know something like that would probably be smarter (say maybe a Focus, Forte, or Elantra), but I know I wouldn't be happy and would be locked in for at least 4-5 years. If I got the stang I know I would be happy and could always refinance in a year or two for a lower rate and/or shorter term. The other alternatives I thought of was using the money from selling my car (if I could sell it for 3k or so equity) and get a beater for about a year to save some money up or get a cheap lease like maybe an Elantra. I need to check out some other dealers to see if they will deal with me like maybe Huyndai or Chrysler, maybe GM. I just got a letter for Hyundai's trade-in program too. Another thought is to try to sell my wheels and other mods on ebay or something, but may want to keep them if I end up getting another gen. If they guy buys my car then I could sell the 19" wheels and get more, but will have to return those if I keep it until the lease is up.

btw, I searched that today's approval thread and did a search of some of those credit unions, but most are out of state or I can't join. That Alliant looks really interesting, but I don't belong to any of their qualifying organizations. Doe's anybody know of a similar one in the Ohio area? Also does it really hurt your credit score to call around and apply at a bunch of places all at once or should I limit it?

Edited by Medsport, 12 April 2012 - 07:45 AM.


#10 road2freedom

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:15 AM

I totally understand wanting the GT over the V6. B) If the price it right, then definitely pursue it.

You can join Alliant by making a small contribution to an affiliated charity. It's linked on the membership page and a fairly easy process. The 730 is great considering the BK. Unfortunately that stigma will cause rates to creep up. Don't forget that LTV and DTI play into the deal as well.

#11 MarvBear

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:26 PM

Also does it really hurt your credit score to call around and apply at a bunch of places all at once or should I limit it?


You already have an approval or so you posted. How many inquiries are you willing to spend by your own hand, for another approval?

#12 road2freedom

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

Score-wise, it depends on the model pulled. I'd try to keep all shopping to within a 14 day window, as that is what the least lenient FICO model considers your "shopping period". However keep in mind that this could also affect any manual reviews done. At least inquiries are temporary and only affect your score for 12 months, unless you B*.

#13 Medsport

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:22 AM

Also does it really hurt your credit score to call around and apply at a bunch of places all at once or should I limit it?


You already have an approval or so you posted. How many inquiries are you willing to spend by your own hand, for another approval?


Well because I would like to get the payment down another $30-40 or so and a couple percentage points would make a big difference and do the trick. But I'm just wondering if its a waste of time and I should just go with the one I got offered? I know the simple answer would be to get a slightly less expensive car. I'm thinking of asking the dealer that got that deal to see about the V6 Mustang or maybe a Fusion. I did just notice a lease special in the paper for a Fusion Sport for $262/m with no money down which seems to good to be true. Although it does say 1k trade and t&t extra so in all reality that would be in the 2.5k ballpark I'm guessing. What about trying those credit repair places I keep getting in the mail like 321rebuild, ect.? Also I'm assuming if I go to another Ford dealer they will try to get financing through the same places that the one in IN did correct or is it worth a shot to keep trying? btw, I got one of the rejection letters and it said my score was only 664 so it came back with a lower score than the other dealer for some reason. It also said no recent revolving balances but I do have a credit card that I got about 3-4 months ago and have been using and paying the balance off. I'm guessing its too new to register? One other thought is when I tell them what I make I'm saying just the base salary, but in all likelyhood I will end up making a little more with occasional OT, holiday pay and bonuses, but I don't know the exact figure. What do you put down for that and would it do any good to call that credit union back that approved me for the 6.25 for only 16k and try to explain that to her?

#14 road2freedom

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:42 AM

Those credit repair places probably aren't going to beat the rate you posted. They are looking for people desperate to accept rates 2-3 times what you we're told. In all honesty, considering the score you posted, the rate isn't that bad. You could try to ask the F&I guy if there's any wiggle room in the rate in order to close the deal. Otherwise you could try to refi in 6 months, but really with a domestic and minimal down payment and no room for additional principle payments, that probably isn't going to happen.

For the income, I would stick to what you can prove. If you have recent pay stubs reflecting those variations you may be able to use them. Hopefully you have some W-2s to prove your income for last year that would also prove it. It probably won't mean much to a bank that already approved you (especially if they don't base the rate off of DTI or DTI alone) but it could help if you continue to apply or talk to the F&I guy.

#15 hoapres

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

Agreeing with all of those above saying a rate of under 10% is real good for one fresh out of a BK. I would even contend that under 10% is pretty good even for one with a 2 year old BK.

#16 MarvBear

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

In the resource section of this forum is an income calculator that I've had posted for years that one of my lenders use. You should be accurate when you complete an application. Don't sell yourself short, nor overstate your income.

#17 Medsport

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:05 AM

Thanks for the replies. I'm starting to get stressed out over this. I tried applying at a couple more places (one of which I had a auto loan in the past in good standing) and got declined by both. Maybe I'm asking for too much or maybe they just have policies for bk too recent? I called the Hyundai dealer back where I got my coupe and it sounds like they are going down on what they will give me on my lease so I'd be lucky to break even if they bought it out early even though its in good shape and low miles.

Do you think its worth a shot to try the local ford dealer and ask about the lease special on the Fusion or Focus? I don't know if I would even qualify for a lease now or not now. Also would they try the same places that the IN ford dealer tried to get financing? I think that dealer said it was Allied (used to be GMAC). The Chevy dealer right down the street sent a letter saying they might give me a little more than I owe on my car, but I'm not really interested in any of their vehicles. The only other places I'm thinking of possibly trying are the local Chrysler dealership or maybe KIA (but no dealership close).

btw, I emailed that dealer that I've been talking too about the Mustang and asked if he could do anything with my extra set of wheels or mods I have on my current car to get the payment down another $20 or so and he hasn't replied. Right now it looks like I'd be right around $420/m for 75 months with about 1k down. I could probably do it, but would have to really watch my spending and maybe cut out some things like maybe cable (which I only watch on weekends anyway) or maybe get a 2nd job. Just working a couple days a month would be enough. I guess I could try selling some of the mods and I have on my car on craigslist, but I would have to take them off first. I also have the 18" wheels on my car now that I could sell, but most likely could only get in the 400-500 range. I could probably get 600-700 out of my 19" wheels, but those came with the car and I would have to put those back on if I end up keeping it until lease turn-in. I'm not sure if the ford dealer would care which set is on it if I trade it in. One other thought is seeing what that ford dealer can offer for a V6 Mustang, but my guess is only about 1-1.5k less range since I wouldn't want a totally base model on one of those.

#18 road2freedom

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

The aftermarket stuff is not doing you any good. Dealers don't care for modified cars and you are really better off if the car is not modified at all. They also see it as an opportunity to offer less for the value since most customers relate that to the vehicle being dogged out (rightly so in most cases). I'm not sure what all you have done - hopefully just some simple bolt-ons that did not permanently alter the vehicle. If so, I would swap what you can back to factory parts. But if you did anything too complex it will not only tank any value you might get out of it, but it will cause problems when it's time to turn the car in.

For the wheels, I would keep the OEM and sell the after-market wheels.

Don't over extend yourself for a car payment. Plus any good underwriter will see it too, which will get more declines anyway.

If you are stressing, take a breather from it and do something to get your mind off the car and come back to it after a few hours or a day. You are all over the place in this thread so I can only image where you are in person. You need to take it 1 step at a time.

#19 Medsport

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:27 PM

Well the wheels are actually stock wheels that come on the base and premium models. They are 18" all-seasons and I got better tires for the rear for winter driving. The 19's are what came on my car (Track edition) and are summer-only tires. As far as mods, I did keep it fairly simple as I only have an aftermarket shift knob (5 min. change), computer flash module (10-15 min. change) all you have to do is plug it in and flash it back, but I have to find or look up the directions. The intake will take a little more time and work. I probably should take it over to my parents house to change in case I run into trouble as they are usually easier to take off the stock box than put it back on. I could then sell the parts and hopefully get a couple hundred or so out of them. I may have some good news as another guy is interested in my car, but its the same story as the last guy as he has to sell his car first and now I have the price down a grand, but still would make about 2k on it and that's about what I need.

I tried calling that dealer a couple times to see about the V6's possibly, but he was busy and hasn't returned my call yet. I hope the deal is still good as it may be the only place that will approve me. I don't think applying at a few more places would effect it would it? I'm thinking the dealer is just thinking I'm not too serious or something.

#20 road2freedom

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

The dealer probably thinks you are not serious yet. Plus they are usually swamped Friday and the weekends, as that's when most working people have time to shop. I would give it some time, wait until Tuesday and reach out again. It might also help to go up there in person. Swap the mods before you go up there. Keep the 19s with the car and sell the 18s, and other mods. In my experience, decently priced parts move quickly on the forums. If the other guys can sell their cars and come through in time - great. You may want to consider a good plan B in the meantime. If it wasn't a lease I'd just say wait but you are dealing with a set timeline.

#21 Medsport

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:04 AM

Update(seems like I always get into unusual situations). I still hadn't heard anything from the dealer until this morning. It seems the guy I was dealing with is no longer with the company (which is weird because I kind of liked him even though I hadn't met him in person). Anyway, they said someone else from their dealership will be contacting me shortly. I had kind of decided I wanted to go with the last deal he quoted a few days ago because it looks like that was the best deal I was going to get at least finance-wise. My question now is will the deal still be good? I'm kind of concerned if I'm really approved or not because I've gotten several letters in the mail, most of which saying they are declining me because of the recent bk mostly. He said the approving bank was Ally. I was thinking of applying for Dodge loan also just to see if I would get approved, but I noticed it was also Ally, so I decided not too. I was also thinking of applying at a more local Ford dealership to see about a decent looking lease or calling the first Ford dealer through truecar in which he never ran my credit report. What do you guys think? I don't want to apply to too many places as it sounds like it may lower your score each time or possibly only once if you do a bunch of them within a 2 week window (I've gotten conflicting opinions on this and am close to the 2 weeks now I believe). I guess my main question is will it hurt the one approval I have to apply at other places in the meantime? One reason is I would like to actually see and drive one of the cars I'm interested in, but the place I got approved at doesn't have the car there and is about a 2 hour drive. The other places are closer, but also don't have a car like I have specked, but have some similar ones.

On a side note, how long can you typically wait to accept an offer before it is no good or the terms change? Like I said I kind of want to jump on it, but also want to make sure I can't do better or possibly sell my car. There is another person interested in my car now, but he wants to sell his car first and said it will most likely be the end of next week before he thinks he can buy it. But we tentatively agreed to a price about a grand less than I was asking. That would give me about $2,250 extra cash, but if I go with the quoted deal above, they would subtract $750 for trade assistance. So I'm basically wondering if it's worth the time and effort to try to sell my car for around $1500 off the new car. I'm still not sure how it would work to buy out the lease and sell the car at the same time? It sounds like the other party has to pay me and I send a check to the leasing company and then they send the title back to me after 4-5 days and then I sign it over to the buying party. I assume I would have to sign some sort of contract to the other party for them to trust me to do this? My next payment on my lease is also due by the 25th, so I'm not sure if I should do something by then or not? I guess it would just be deducted from the buyout amount if I sell or from the purchase price if I end up trading it in? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to figure out the best way to proceed.

#22 Medsport

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:05 AM

.

Edited by Medsport, 17 April 2012 - 08:10 AM.


#23 Medsport

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:06 AM

error

Edited by Medsport, 17 April 2012 - 08:09 AM.


#24 Medsport

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:07 AM

multiple post

Edited by Medsport, 17 April 2012 - 08:09 AM.


#25 road2freedom

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

Yeah that database error was getting me too.

Sooo many questions... :lol:

Really, any verbal or email discussion you had doesn't mean squat until you sign the papers. If anything, it's an unofficial agreement. You could certainly tell them "he promised me X and I expect that same deal" but really there's nothing holding them to that since any conversation you had was circumstantial. Most reputable places will try to work with you and make good on any offer. Use it as a starting point for the next person, just as you would at any other dealership. The finance terms shouldn't really change, assuming the F&I guy is still there. I would have the new salesperson check with them to verify your approval.

Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler are all with Ally now, however there are alternative finance sources. If you see a deal you really want, don't be afraid to pursue it.

Inquiries matter for scoring more than anything. I can tell you without a doubt that for scoring they are grouped to count as 1 inquiry, but again that window varies based on the model the lender pulls... so it's a crapshoot, which is why I said try to keep them within 14 days. If you can get a deal done though, you have no choice but to apply again. The good news is it creates a second window. So 10 auto inquiries in the first 14 days and 30 in the next 14 days counts against your score as 2 inquiries, for that model.

It sounds like you have a lot of interest in your car as is. If you have a chance to make some $$ off of it, I would let those play out. Any money received is money saved. This will also give you time to sell any after-market parts or wheels if you choose.

I'm not sure how the private sale works with a leased vehicle. I imagine it's not much difference, except that you would owe any pre-payment penalties or fees. Hopefully someone else knows.

Not sure I got to everything. try to list out specific questions line by line or with bullets - makes it easier to follow. :grin:




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