852 replies to this topic

[Echo_X]

I'm just going to jump to the bottom here because on my netbook's tiny screen, I can't deal with all the multiquote text.

Blackberry. A private citizen does have the right to detain another private citizen if he knows for a fact that they are committing a crime. For instance, if you act to stop a violent rape, you can detain that person until police enforcement arrives. Same if you interrupt a mugging, or have a strong belief that a home is being robbed (for instance by pulling your vehicle up sideways infront of the burglar's vehicle in such a way that it prevents them from being able to wiggle out of pull around it). So that right does exist, and might even be considered obligatory for a member of a neighbourhood watch.

How ever, authority ends at that. Only under clear and present danger of loss/damage to property, or grievous injury or death to an apparent victim. As you say, the man should have kept his butt in his car, as he was ordered. He wanted to be a cowboy, and now an innocent child is dead.

This is a yet another case of vigilante justice gone horribly wrong.

As someone mentioned. There are some people who are just unstable, ticking time bombs, they seem normal, even brave and dependable. And some of these brave, dependable, ticking time bombs have guns..

[Tigz]

This is a yet another case of vigilante justice gone horribly wrong.

Vigilante justice almost always does go horribly wrong.

That is why we have courts and a judicial system. Yeah, it is a pain in the butt. and Yeah, sometimes the bad guy walks or the good guy is locked up...or worse.

but anything is better than vigilante justice where it is a 50/50 shot as to whether the person shot/hung/whatever did what they claim he/she did.

[Echo_X]

This is a yet another case of vigilante justice gone horribly wrong.

Vigilante justice almost always does go horribly wrong.

That is why we have courts and a judicial system. Yeah, it is a pain in the butt. and Yeah, sometimes the bad guy walks or the good guy is locked up...or worse.

but anything is better than vigilante justice where it is a 50/50 shot as to whether the person shot/hung/whatever did what they claim he/she did.

I don't think I was implying that there are cases where vigilante justice is A-Okay.

Come to think of it, 50/50 sounds way too optimistic.

[orangecrush]

No probable cause to arrest shooter.

http://www.orlandose...0,3967780.story

[mk_378]

Wow. The police are trying to operate above their pay grade here. The claim of self-defense has enough serious doubts that Zimmerman needs to face a judge or two. This was a killing, not a bar-room scuffle.

> Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon but somehow found him again.

In other words, he chased the victim down and started a fight. It's Trayvon who was acting in self defense.

Edited by mk_378, 12 March 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[blackberry74]

No probable cause, eh?

[breeze]

I imagine a civil suit will be filed before the week is out and settled quickly. Sad.

[mk_378]

There is probable cause for a charge of murder. The evidence includes a dead body that has been shot in the chest, and a man found at the scene with the smoking gun in his hand.

In a case of self-defense, the burden is on the defendant to prove that it was self-defense. Sometimes that is obvious, for example "castle doctrine" makes it automatic when killing an intruder in one's home. But that is nowhere near what happened here. There are considerable gaps in Zimmerman's story.

Edited by mk_378, 12 March 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[hegemony]

There is probable cause for a charge of murder. The evidence includes a dead body that has been shot in the chest, and a man found at the scene with the smoking gun in his hand.

In a case of self-defense, the burden is on the defendant to prove that it was self-defense. Sometimes that is obvious, for example "castle doctrine" makes it automatic when killing an intruder in one's home. But that is nowhere near what happened here. There are considerable gaps in Zimmerman's story.

very well put.

I wonder how far from the nazi's car the body was found? I mean, how far did the nut go to confront the kid? if more than a few feet then self-defense is absurd.

[orangecrush]

http://www.huffingto..._n_1340358.html

George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

The meeting was attended by Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, the detective assigned to the investigation and an unnamed member of the city council, according to the homeowner’s association newsletter. The chief couldn't immediately be reached for comment about the complaints. A member of the homeowner’s association board, who asked not to be quoted by name, said she “hadn’t heard about any complaints” about Zimmerman. Zimmerman's phone number is disconnected and efforts to reach him have been unsuccessful.

[orangecrush]

From what I have heard and read, the shooter was jerk and people were fed up with him. Some also seem to think that he is connected to someone important, because of how the police department has slide on this, the complaints and the earlier charges.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

From what I have heard and read, the shooter was jerk and people were fed up with him. Some also seem to think that he is connected to someone important, because of how the police department has slide on this, the complaints and the earlier charges.

I'd have a field day with this. Someone important? I wonder how much more important than a President-appointed Federal Judge....

Also, with all the PR, how cam the police side with this guy? There must be some ramifications because of this. I mean, if you got caught by this PD, after this, would you take anything seriously? I sure wouldn't.

Edited by Bad Doctor Frost, 12 March 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[orangecrush]

Orlando Watch Shooting Probe Reveals Questionable Police Conduct


http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=15907136

[Tigz]

Orlando Watch Shooting Probe Reveals Questionable Police Conduct


http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=15907136

This is going to turn ugly.

Good.

A young man was deprived of his life. Something needs to be done.

Just by what has been said so far, it looks like Zimmerman started a fight with this boy, and when Zimmerman started losing, he shot the him.

[orangecrush]

It is going to get really ugly. People in the area are very upset. Every day something comes out that makes the police look more suspicious.

[Tigz]

I am wondering about this supposed expunged record. Once a record is sealed/expunged, no one has access to it except by a judge ordering it unsealed......so how did they get this information?

edited to add:

By "they", I mean the media.

Edited by Tigz, 13 March 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[orangecrush]

I am wondering about this supposed expunged record. Once a record is sealed/expunged, no one has access to it except by a judge ordering it unsealed......so how did they get this information?

edited to add:

By "they", I mean the media.

I saw the case myself. It is in public records. I think he did pre-trial diversion and the charges were dropped.

[Tigz]

I am wondering about this supposed expunged record. Once a record is sealed/expunged, no one has access to it except by a judge ordering it unsealed......so how did they get this information?

edited to add:

By "they", I mean the media.

I saw the case myself. It is in public records. I think he did pre-trial diversion and the charges were dropped.

Ahhhh, ok....then it wasn't expunged....just dropped/Nol Prossed/etc. The media needs to learn what the terms they use actually mean.

[blackberry74]

Orlando Watch Shooting Probe Reveals Questionable Police Conduct


http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=15907136

Hmmm...ya don't say?

[angeleyeskkhr]

I am wondering about this supposed expunged record. Once a record is sealed/expunged, no one has access to it except by a judge ordering it unsealed......so how did they get this information?

edited to add:

By "they", I mean the media.

Here "expunged" just means the public doesn't have access to it. But law enforcement and probation can still view it. At least that is how I understand it work.

[Tigz]

I am wondering about this supposed expunged record. Once a record is sealed/expunged, no one has access to it except by a judge ordering it unsealed......so how did they get this information?

edited to add:

By "they", I mean the media.

Here "expunged" just means the public doesn't have access to it. But law enforcement and probation can still view it. At least that is how I understand it work.

In Florida, expunged is supposed to mean "destroyed"

(ahem, however, I heard that many are kept in a file and treated as "sealed"....but you didn't hear that from me)

[mdw2006]

Makes me wonder what the police are hiding not allowing the 911 tapes out of their site.

[cljohnr]

This was on the news station in the breakroom just now. Said the police have turned the case over to the prosecutor's office, who will decide whether to press charges. Reporter said something on the 911 tape before the gunshot is heard supports the guy's story, according to police. I guess he was on the phone the entire time?

[orangecrush]

This was on the news station in the breakroom just now. Said the police have turned the case over to the prosecutor's office, who will decide whether to press charges. Reporter said something on the 911 tape before the gunshot is heard supports the guy's story, according to police. I guess he was on the phone the entire time?

It is my understanding that police said the grass stains and bloody nose of the shooter support his claims. There are numerous 911 calls and the shot is heard on some of them. I don't think the shooter was on the phone the entire time. He hung up after being told not to confront the kid.

I think that people in the area have lost faith in the police department and not releasing those 911 tapes makes it seem as if they are hiding something.





This is the same police department that refused to arrest an officer's son, for hitting a homeless man from behind and knocking him unconscious. They didn't arrest him even though, there was videotape of him committing the crime. Nothing was done, until after a video of the crime was uploaded to youtube. Even then, he was not arrested until a month later and I think that was due to the district attorney filing charges.

The officer's son had several previous run-ins with the law. He was charged with beating and choking his girlfriend. Those charges were dropped, because the victim stopped cooperating and allegedly his parents gave her money. He had also been arrested for shooting a man.

[dingaling]

By saying the guy did not commit a crime, and then sending it to the state attorney to "make the decision on filing charges", the police are just passing the buck. Very seldom will the state attorney file charges against a person when the police don't support filing the charges. This is just a way for the police to take some of the heat off themselves.

I do trust that SA office because I have dealt with them a lot in the past. But can you imagine them filing the charges, going to trial, and having the police testify that they didn't think charges were justified? Makes it difficult to win the case.

I think it is time to get the FDLE in for an independant investigation and then send the case to the statewide prosecutor for the prosecution. Both have offices in Orlando, just about 30 miles away. And both have great reputations. And, they tend to keep politics and local prejudices out of the equation. And, a change of venue might help.