Again there are a lot if ifs, and those circumstances belong to a lot of different individuals. However, following him on property where he had a right to be is not criminal. If Martin hit him first and was beating him on the ground I don't give a damn about what non-criminal matters led to up to it, it would make it Martin's own fault he was shot. If that's not what happened I would believe differently. I am open-minded enough to realize we don't know though.
Well, that's just stupid.
You wouldn't think so if you were being assaulted.
No, it IS stupid, being assaulted or not. TM knew some creep was following him and I don't see how anyone could NOT feel threatened by that. Plus, he was smaller than GZ. First Creep was following him in the truck and then on foot. I would be defensive, too. Even if TM threw the first punch, I think he was justified.
Following someone in general is not illegal, assuming you have a legal right to be in that place. To assume that person is a threat, is just that, an assumption, until a real threat is presented. To strike that person first is not defense.... that would be offense, which is assault. I think there are potential arguments justifying TM defending himself, assuming he was not the aggressor. If he was the aggressor though and presented a threat to GZ's life, he made a bad and immature decision to beat on the wrong guy and paid for it with his life.
Also, please make sure you are paying attention to the facts and not the stories. TM was not the cute kid in the photographs.. more like 6' tall 150+ lbs athletic. GZ is also not the tub-o-lard from his booking photo from years ago. He had lost some of that weight and is around 5'10". Not that I think size changes the justification, but since you do, don't be mislead.
So then based your own words, you agree that GZ was wrong to assume that TM was a threat while he was walking along minding his own business, looking around?
I teach MY kids that if someone is in a vehicle and is creeping up along beside them or behind them or pulls in front of them that they are to be very cautious and/or they are to run. WTH is the difference here? Obviously TM FELT threatened or unsafe since he mentioned being followed to his gf on the phone. So am I wrong in telling my kids that they are NOT to feel threatened by a creeper or someone watching them for more than a minute or two?
You don't know wth I have read or haven't read as far as this situation goes. I NEVER said he was "the cute kid in the photographs". But he wasn't some horrible looking kid either, nor did he look as threatening as you want us to feel that he is. 150 lbs is a lot different than 200lbs or 230lbs. I am NOT mislead on anything when it comes to this, who is making the ASSumptions now?
TM had just as much right to walking on that sidewalk and in that neighborhood as GZ.
Edited by NeverQuietHere, 17 May 2012 - 12:36 PM.