63 replies to this topic

[Nemeweh]

Thanks for sharing your story, zx10. I appreciate it.

You're welcome. A felt a bit wierd airing my dirty laundry but just wanted to provide a personal insight on someone who actually lived the topic being discussed on the far end of the disadvantaged group.

Pfft. Dirty Laundry my patootie. That was inspirational and just makes me (and Im sure Im not alone) you more for your awesomeness. Your parents just out-n-out rock. You are proof of this.

[blackberry74]

And his story also backs up a point I've made time & again as it relates to education - it's not just involved parents, students, teachers, school administrators, or money/access to resources. It's a combination of all of those things, with parental involvement being of the most important of them all. It's a recipe for success.

[orangecrush]

Zx10guy, I you more very day.

[orangecrush]

If I was broke, lived in a cave with no electricity or running water, you better believe that Ugby would be able to read (in at least 4 languages), use a computer and drill a well so we could get water. That's what time and public libraries are for.


Before there were computers, there was a thing called paper. It is fairly cheap. Use it.

Before there was Kindle, there was something called books. Check them out.

Before there were magnet schools, there was sitting at the table and helping your kid learn. Try it.



Yeah...yeah... I know that parents are tired and work hard. They knew that kids were shady time drains when they had them. It is on them to make sure they get a good education.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

If I was broke, lived in a cave with no electricity or running water, you better believe that Ugby would be able to read (in at least 4 languages), use a computer and drill a well so we could get water. That's what time and public libraries are for.


Before there were computers, there was a thing called paper. It is fairly cheap. Use it.

Before there was Kindle, there was something called books. Check them out.

Before there were magnet schools, there was sitting at the table and helping your kid learn. Try it.



Yeah...yeah... I know that parents are tired and work hard. They knew that kids were shady time drains when they had them. It is on them to make sure they get a good education.

Yes, but you're an intelligent individual. A good majority these people were born when their own parents were 15-16, they've known nothing else but to be a leech on society. The funny thing is, these are the same kids who don't give a flying fudge in school, because "it's not cool." They make fun of the kids who work hard. Well, you know what? That's why you live in a trailer with your mommy and her 4th boyfriend and your 7 brothers and sisters. And that's why you'll always be there. People just don't care when they can get what they need given to them. We have to stop supporting mediocrity. If you want all your things, get off your lazy butt and earn them.

[giraffy]

Oh, Frosty. You just don't know when to stop, do ya?

[Bad Doctor Frost]

Oh, Frosty. You just don't know when to stop, do ya?

I have no idea what you're talking about.


Also, your siggy

[Labyrinthine]

It is easy to say the schools are to blame. But they are not the only ones. You can give some students every opportunity an they will still fail. I saw it in my own school not that long ago. It comes from the student and family not caring or the student and family not having the means to focus on education.

Yes, it would be nice if all things were equal and ideally they would be. But how do you measure that? If a school is underperforming is it because of the students and parents or is it because of the teachers? If you move those teachers to another school with the same resources will the students do better, the same or worse?

I stand with the unpopular opinion that a school can be great or it can suck. Neither one matters if the student isn't driven to gain an education. Every day we see evidence of kids in the worst schools out there coming out of that environment and making a new life and gaining a better education and every day we see evidence of kids that went to the best schools and are pushing off their opportunities and failing out.

[dingaling]

Just to give you an idea how it is in the real world for teachers. Our high school came out with a memo to teachers yesterday explaining that all kids learn at different levels and at different times. It went on to explain that if the kid fails a test, he might not have been ready to learn that subject. Therefore, if a kid fails the test, the teacher must be willing to let the child retake the test when the child is ready. And, the child will get the higher grade, not an average of the two grades.

This means that if a kid does not want to study for a test, he can just tell the teacher "I'll take it later when I'm ready". Then the teacher gets to make up a new test for this kid. The teachers are working long hours now. They don't have the time to give individual tests to 170 students.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the kids just refuse to do the work. They don't study and they don't do homework. They know the rule is that everyone passes.

The rationale of the memo is that just as long as the kid learns the material, that is all that is important. If he doesn't study or do his homework, then he should be given "redos" until he passes.

Lets apply that to real life. Say you are in a plane high in the sky. Your pilot didn't prepare for the flight because he was lazy or just didn't feel like it. The plane encounters a problem and crashes because of this . Everyone dies. Does he get a redo?

Or say the attorney has a death penalty case and doesn't prepare because he doesn't feel like it. The defendant is convicted, sentenced to death, and executed. Does he get a redo after the execution? I knew a guy who was executed. I know for a fact that a "redo" will not do him any good.

The system is broken. I don't know any teacher who likes the job or plans to stay in the job for any length of time. My son says at his university they have said that applications to the teaching program dropped by 50% this year. The local high school just lost a long time teacher because he got fed up. They got a replacement who quit the first day. Now they are looking for another replacement. They said the guy they hired was the only one who was qualified, so where do they find another person?

We are in an upscale community with good schools (at least the facilities are good). But I would guess that close to 50% of the students have given up and don't do anything.

[Nemeweh]

Just to give you an idea how it is in the real world for teachers. Our high school came out with a memo to teachers yesterday explaining that all kids learn at different levels and at different times. It went on to explain that if the kid fails a test, he might not have been ready to learn that subject. Therefore, if a kid fails the test, the teacher must be willing to let the child retake the test when the child is ready. And, the child will get the higher grade, not an average of the two grades.

This means that if a kid does not want to study for a test, he can just tell the teacher "I'll take it later when I'm ready". Then the teacher gets to make up a new test for this kid. The teachers are working long hours now. They don't have the time to give individual tests to 170 students.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the kids just refuse to do the work. They don't study and they don't do homework. They know the rule is that everyone passes.

The rationale of the memo is that just as long as the kid learns the material, that is all that is important. If he doesn't study or do his homework, then he should be given "redos" until he passes.

Lets apply that to real life. Say you are in a plane high in the sky. Your pilot didn't prepare for the flight because he was lazy or just didn't feel like it. The plane encounters a problem and crashes because of this . Everyone dies. Does he get a redo?

Or say the attorney has a death penalty case and doesn't prepare because he doesn't feel like it. The defendant is convicted, sentenced to death, and executed. Does he get a redo after the execution? I knew a guy who was executed. I know for a fact that a "redo" will not do him any good.

The system is broken. I don't know any teacher who likes the job or plans to stay in the job for any length of time. My son says at his university they have said that applications to the teaching program dropped by 50% this year. The local high school just lost a long time teacher because he got fed up. They got a replacement who quit the first day. Now they are looking for another replacement. They said the guy they hired was the only one who was qualified, so where do they find another person?

We are in an upscale community with good schools (at least the facilities are good). But I would guess that close to 50% of the students have given up and don't do anything.

I wish our school system would come out with that madness. I would flip the H out. All that type of permissive behavior is doing to creating a generation of morons, idiots, and lazy-azzes. What kind of mental midgets is your school system/board trying to churn out? And the parents allow it?

[Gronnie]

And the parents allow it?

Allow it? I bet they encourage it! It can't possibly be little Johnny's fault that he failed!

Edited by Gronnie, 01 March 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

And the parents allow it?

Allow it? I bet they encourage it! It can't possibly be little Johnny's fault that he failed!

Yep. Parents these days are atrocious. Especially American parents. I had a friend who did his student teaching in China. Boy was he in for a shock when he came back to the states and saw what little Hellions were in the classrooms here.

[dingaling]

About half the parents care and they make the kids do the work. About half the parents don't care and neither do their kids. Since the system has effectively instituted the policy of passing everyone, the kids who don't want to work know they can get away with it.

[sirrowan]

Exactly, Radi8...and that's the real issue that nobody wants to address. Inferior schools are creating a permanent underclass and not too many people seem to care. It's disheartening.

The first question a family with kids asks of a realtor is "what are the schools like?"

Everyone likes to have people to blame. Preferably other people.

One of the interesting side effects of ubiquitous tech is that learning and education is disconnecting from brick and mortar knowledge transfer factories. Zip codes, down to the 4 digit street code, where parents live will become more important than the zip codes of their schools.

A lot of families with kids won't be asking a realtor anything of the sort since they won't be purchasing a home anytime soon. I'm not sure what your second sentence has to do with anything being discussed here. And while technology is a wonderful addition to education - the digital divide isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Those with the means can certainly "disconnect" from brick & mortar buildings, as you put it. Those who don't, can't. My whole point is public education should be the same caliber for every kid no matter their parents' financial situation. Right now it's not.

The real discussion needs to be why there are two different educational systems based on what zip code you happen to be born into. But I suppose that's not as much fun as drawing spurious conclusions.

I think that's a gross oversimplification of the problems. Swap the students in those schools and the bad school likely becomes the good school.

What you just said was a gross oversimplification.

I wonder...of the people who have contributed to this thread, how many of you have spent significant amounts of time, money, and/or effort in public schools in your area? I'm really curious.

I was like?