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Do you support current Amex FR Policy ?


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142 replies to this topic

Poll: Do you support current Amex FR Policy ? (114 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you support current Amex FR Policy ?

  1. Yes (42 votes [36.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.84%

  2. No (72 votes [63.16%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 63.16%

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#51 breeze

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 05:28 PM

looks like a decent blog, I'll give her a link...

http://whyguncontrol...guns-arent.html



#52 Anubis

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 05:51 PM

re receipts: After you purchase something it belongs to you, the store can make no policy that says you may not leave the premise until they check your receipt. If you know you did not steal anything, there is no reason to stop.....

Membership clubs like Costco, Sams, BJ's, etc., can make such policies and you consent to them as part of your membership agreement.

I once had a police officer who was talking to the receipt checker at Home Depot stop me after I politely told the receipt checker "no thank you" and tell me that I *had* to show my receipt. I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times. After about 30 seconds of him stammering and not knowing what to do, I walked out without further impediment and without showing my papers.

I'm just waiting for someone to lay a hand on me for refusing to produce a receipt.

#53 BobWang

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 05:56 PM

Not smart to provoke simians.

#54 dnm45227

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:31 PM

I do not like amex FR. I would close my amex accounts if they asked for those documents.

re receipts: After you purchase something it belongs to you, the store can make no policy that says you may not leave the premise until they check your receipt. If you know you did not steal anything, there is no reason to stop.....

I mostly agree with you here. The exception would be a Sam's or Costco type club where you agree to membership terms. Of which, I'm sure presenting receipt upon request is a condition of membership. To be honest though I haven't read the terms do I can't speak with certainty on the matter.

#55 Gronnie

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:56 PM


re receipts: After you purchase something it belongs to you, the store can make no policy that says you may not leave the premise until they check your receipt. If you know you did not steal anything, there is no reason to stop.....

Membership clubs like Costco, Sams, BJ's, etc., can make such policies and you consent to them as part of your membership agreement.

I once had a police officer who was talking to the receipt checker at Home Depot stop me after I politely told the receipt checker "no thank you" and tell me that I *had* to show my receipt. I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times. After about 30 seconds of him stammering and not knowing what to do, I walked out without further impediment and without showing my papers.

I'm just waiting for someone to lay a hand on me for refusing to produce a receipt.


I'm confused. Are you saying that you have to show your receipt or not? Your first and second paragraphs seem to be in contradiction with each other.

#56 LustfortheMoment

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times.


I agree. There's no violation of MASS law if you don't agree to show your receipt. However, you agree to do so within the Costco terms: "To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse."

Hey, if you don't like the conditions of the membership, shop elsewhere :wave: ......

Love the pink .38 S&W, but it's a bit girly. I'm much more feminine than the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but a .40 Glock is a more serious firearm.........

Posted Image

#57 BobWang

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:32 PM

If you have a Gen4, there is a recall on the RSAs.

#58 dnm45227

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:33 PM

I am partial to a Glock 23 (.40 cal). Just large enough to function as a duty weapon, yet moderately easy to conceal.

#59 BobWang

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:35 PM

Or, do as I do, just get them all. :D

#60 shaddix

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:21 PM


re receipts: After you purchase something it belongs to you, the store can make no policy that says you may not leave the premise until they check your receipt. If you know you did not steal anything, there is no reason to stop.....

Membership clubs like Costco, Sams, BJ's, etc., can make such policies and you consent to them as part of your membership agreement.

I once had a police officer who was talking to the receipt checker at Home Depot stop me after I politely told the receipt checker "no thank you" and tell me that I *had* to show my receipt. I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times. After about 30 seconds of him stammering and not knowing what to do, I walked out without further impediment and without showing my papers.

I'm just waiting for someone to lay a hand on me for refusing to produce a receipt.




They cannot make a policy that says "you may not leave the premises without having your receipt checked". They can say "if you leave the premises without receipt check we will revoke your membership". But they cannot tell you you may not leave.

Note I am not one of those who won't let people see my receipt just for the heck of it. I think it's worth showing my receipt just so the receipt checker guy feels like he is doing his job. It's a nice thing to do. But! If there's a big line or something, seeya. I've yet to have my costco membership cancelled.

Edited by shaddix, 19 December 2011 - 11:23 PM.


#61 OceanAir

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:55 PM

Do you support current Amex FR Policy ?



I do especially when as you yourself stated in another CC forum "I probably have 60 or 70 inq's on my EX and I am not sure how many I have on my EQ."

#62 OceanAir

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:00 AM


I don't flip out when the 70 year old asks to see my receipt when leaving Costco, it's all part of business.

Exactly the reason I don't shop at Costco. If you think I have committed a crime detain/arrest me, if not don't restrict my liberty. I now they get away with calling me a thief by making it part of the membership policy to show a receipt upon request, so I vote with my feet in this instance as well.



We have to do that also at our Lowe's Home Improvement store. Never much of a line there but Costco can be a 3 minute or so wait. It's quite stupid considering how carts can be loaded to the brim with hundreds of dollars worth of items and they look at it for one second.
While I don't like it I have to pick and choose my battles to keep my sanity. I really like Costco so will put up with this minor inconvenience.

#63 OceanAir

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:06 AM


I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times.


I agree. There's no violation of MASS law if you don't agree to show your receipt. However, you agree to do so within the Costco terms: "To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse."

Hey, if you don't like the conditions of the membership, shop elsewhere :wave: ......

Love the pink .38 S&W, but it's a bit girly. I'm much more feminine than the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but a .40 Glock is a more serious firearm.........

Posted Image


""To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse."

That's such BS as there is no way in hell they check all merchandise. Also, there are no prices on the products so how would they compare to your receipt. It should state "to insure you're not ripping us off......

Nice glock. Unfortunately, I live in one of the worst states for gun ownership. Guns go off by themselves around here just shooting people at random.

#64 spigot

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:14 AM

Meh, Amex 'trusted' me enough to give me a $500 Zync with a 580 EX FICO, 9 months AAoA, and 75% util. After six months they removed the spending limit without me asking. I've already been FR'ed once, but I can't really blame them. As long as you're truthful on your application, it's just a minor inconvenience. Worth it for the positive tradeline on my report. EX is still only 601 and they've treated me very well considering the circumstances. The almost-daily softs are pretty amusing though.

#65 Anubis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:56 AM



re receipts: After you purchase something it belongs to you, the store can make no policy that says you may not leave the premise until they check your receipt. If you know you did not steal anything, there is no reason to stop.....

Membership clubs like Costco, Sams, BJ's, etc., can make such policies and you consent to them as part of your membership agreement.

I once had a police officer who was talking to the receipt checker at Home Depot stop me after I politely told the receipt checker "no thank you" and tell me that I *had* to show my receipt. I asked him to cite the chapter and section of MA General Law that mandated such a requirement, and he got indignant. I asked him to arrest me if he thought I had stolen something or had broken another law -- several times. After about 30 seconds of him stammering and not knowing what to do, I walked out without further impediment and without showing my papers.

I'm just waiting for someone to lay a hand on me for refusing to produce a receipt.




They cannot make a policy that says "you may not leave the premises without having your receipt checked". They can say "if you leave the premises without receipt check we will revoke your membership". But they cannot tell you you may not leave.

Note I am not one of those who won't let people see my receipt just for the heck of it. I think it's worth showing my receipt just so the receipt checker guy feels like he is doing his job. It's a nice thing to do. But! If there's a big line or something, seeya. I've yet to have my costco membership cancelled.

Absolutely they can.

They are a private membership club. They can require all members carry a pink parasol at all times while in their store if they so desire and stipulate so in their membership agreement. Their membership agreement clearly states "To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse." If you want to leave the warehouse with your purchases, you must submit to the inspection. Of course you are welcome to leave the warehouse unimpeded without your purchases if you do not desire to comply.

For an establishment open to the general public, there is no law (in my state nor most others) requiring you to stop and submit to inspection unless they believe that you have stolen something. There are however numerous laws regarding unlawful detainment and harassment. This is America, and I'm not going to cooperate with a system of receipt inspections ("papers please!") that starts with the presumption that I am anything but an honest consumer. It's amazing how many sheep are willing to have their rights trampled upon by allowing themselves to be treated like a criminal who has to prove they haven't done anything wrong in order to leave a store with their purchase. You're not being "nice" by complying, you're giving away your freedom.

#66 shaddix

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 08:38 AM

Absolutely they can.


There is a difference between an agreement and a policy. It doesn't matter if they're a private club, they cannot make a policy that states you may not leave without having your receipt checked. You have stated you will not leave until someone checks your receipt, willingly, this is different from them not allowing you to leave. They cannot restrict your ability to leave without having seen you take something due to that "shopkeepers privilege" or whatever that thing is. Wanting to check your receipt is not enough for them to hold you though, no matter what you've agreed to. If you break your agreement then they might cancel your membership, but they can't stop you from leaving.

#67 Anubis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:02 AM

I've never said that they can stop you. Their agreement -- that you AGREE to when you sign the dotted line when you join -- says that they will inspect receipts upon your exit.

You are at all times free to leave without your purchase. They can't stop you from leaving unless they have a legal right to under state law concerning theft. If you want to leave the store with your purchase, they can require you to submit to their inspection.

What other agreements or contracts have you signed that you have no clue what you're agreeing to?

#68 Jon77

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:22 AM

What other agreements or contracts have you signed that you have no clue what you're agreeing to?

The agreement when I signed up for CB.com comes to mind. ;)

#69 shaddix

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:38 AM

I've never said that they can stop you. Their agreement -- that you AGREE to when you sign the dotted line when you join -- says that they will inspect receipts upon your exit.

You are at all times free to leave without your purchase. They can't stop you from leaving unless they have a legal right to under state law concerning theft. If you want to leave the store with your purchase, they can require you to submit to their inspection.

What other agreements or contracts have you signed that you have no clue what you're agreeing to?


Agreement means willingness, meaning you are stopping on your own, they are not stopping you. If you change your mind and break your agreement, they cannot hold you and force you to show receipt in order to exit.



How do you reconcile the two bolded statements above?

#70 virtualtreasure

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:13 AM


I've never said that they can stop you. Their agreement -- that you AGREE to when you sign the dotted line when you join -- says that they will inspect receipts upon your exit.

You are at all times free to leave without your purchase. They can't stop you from leaving unless they have a legal right to under state law concerning theft. If you want to leave the store with your purchase, they can require you to submit to their inspection.

What other agreements or contracts have you signed that you have no clue what you're agreeing to?


Agreement means willingness, meaning you are stopping on your own, they are not stopping you. If you change your mind and break your agreement, they cannot hold you and force you to show receipt in order to exit.

How do you reconcile the two bolded statements above?


If, for real or imagined reasons, a retailer believes a customer has shoplifted, for eg.
they may request receipts and detain them upon refusal to do so...additionally 'shoplifters' are routinely arrested and prosecuted
so-if the customer is unable or unwilling to confirm
payment for the merchandise on their person and the retailer doesn't take kindly
the situation could escalate quite rapidly.


#71 shaddix

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:22 AM

If, for real or imagined reasons, a retailer believes a customer has shoplifted, for eg.
they may request receipts and detain them upon refusal to do so...additionally 'shoplifters' are routinely arrested and prosecuted
so-if the customer is unable or unwilling to confirm
payment for the merchandise on their person and the retailer doesn't take kindly
the situation could escalate quite rapidly.


Refusing to produce a receipt for purchased merchandise is not enough to detain someone. You must be observed taking something and then attempting to leave the store without paying in order for them to have any legal ability to stop you. If you stop for any other reason than you are actually stealing something, then you are doing it willingly.

#72 hegemony

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:25 AM




http://microbiology....nsmission.shtml

Don't care. If they are going to take the positions of near strip searches and no adherence common to sense when applying screening standards then they are going to look me in the eye and put hands on me. Hopefully by putting a human face and real person in front of them it at least proves my point that there are better ways to screen people (i.e. a verified traveler type of program being piloted currently). Just because I want to board a plane I shouldn't be considered a terrorist, or treated like one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for security. My wife works for an airline and as stated above I'm ex-law enforcement, and currently work in a crime lab. Taking bad guys off the street and protecting our citizen's is very important to me. It just has to be balanced within the rights afforded us by the Constitution.


so do you also avoid walmart, sams club, and most major electronics retailers?

No, but I do advise the clerk that checks my receipt that I don't support the policy or in some cases they may keep the receipt and keep walking, or in some cases they can check the garbage can I just threw it in.

I honestly try to temper my personal views on the matter when speaking with the employee asking because most of the time it's either and elderly person or a person that is not high functioning mentally, either way I go out of my way to show the proper level of respect.



let me guess...you happily let clerks check your drivers license when using a credit card to pay? If so, you need to rethink the focus of your ire.

Why single-out costco when walfart and other subprime merchants do the same?

#73 BobWang

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:39 AM

Walmar does NOT do this.

Sam's Club DOES.

And your irrational bias is showing.

#74 BobWang

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:40 AM

t

#75 hegemony

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:47 AM

Walmar does NOT do this.

Sam's Club DOES.

And your irrational bias is showing.

maybe the walfart near you does not, but that last one I was in was asking anyone with large items or full shopping cards for receipts. nothing irrational about noting an event that happened. perhaps your irrational assumptions about me and my shopping habits are showing. :lol:

the worst offenders are big box electronics store. if Fry's thinks I am a shop lifter, they should call the police.




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