113 replies to this topic

[hinklesc]

That was 1920. Hmm. I have the feeling that these laws will change in the not-so-distant future to keep up-to-date with the changing ways of business. Not accepting checks, having minimums for CC use, not taking certain bills. Do you want customers? What happened to the days when money was...money? I'm the customer. I should be able to pay any way I want. If not for me, you wouldn't HAVE a business. When does it stop?

+1

Since when can't a restaurant not afford a counterfeit pen.

[radi8]

Theft at restaurants is usually reserved for the people that walk out on the check.

Go back and read your previous post. That is exactly the scenario you stated- heading for your car while telling the proprietor to "have a nice day".

[hinklesc]

Theft at restaurants is usually reserved for the people that walk out on the check.

Go back and read your previous post. That is exactly the scenario you stated- heading for your car while telling the proprietor to "have a nice day".

OH I would WAIT for the police... Gotta tell my side... Even if outside the business.

Edited by hinklesc, 26 July 2010 - 01:31 AM.

[radi8]

What happened to the days when money was...money?

The morons committing fraud got better at it, that's what happened.
Stores refuse checks because their fraud/NSF losses outweigh the reduction in sales that accompany the policy.
They refuse larger bills because counterfeiters have become pretty good. The counterfeit detection pens only find the crappiest faux bills made on copier paper stock.
Now they may impose CC minimums because the processing fees have increased to the point where some are losing money on sales under a certain amount.
Welcome to 2010.
If you don't like the almost universal rejection of checks and increasing refusal to accept large bills- blame the fraudsters.
If you don't like CC minimums, blame the banks who made those sales unprofitable. Neither is the fault of the merchant who is only trying to protect his business from loss.

OH I would WAIT for the police... Gotta tell my side... Even if outside the business.

This really isn't a difficult concept, it's just a simple contract. A merchant agrees to provide you a product or service, and you agree to pay them for it according to terms they accept.
Once they have performed their part you can't just reverse course and not accept their terms unless they also agree to modify them. maybe they will- maybe they won't....but the law is on their side.
Nothing requires them to accept a certain method of payment after they've informed you they do not, just as nothing requires you to buy their product or service. If you don't like the terms presented- walk away.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

If you don't like the terms presented- walk away.

That's funny...these small business are so worried about "loss" that they end up losing customers...which is the whole point of being in business.

Yes. I do blame the businesses. It's called risk. Everyone deals with it. Find a way to deal with it that doesn't inconvenience ME, the customer. Because it will come to that point, where the customer has no WAY to pay for the services. AKA crappy customer service. CC fees are a cost of doing business. What you pay in transaction fees is more than paid for by the revenue that accepting CCs brings in. Checks...I'm not as bothered by that. I don't know the last time I used by checkbook besides a huge bill or something. Counterfeit? Yeah I can see that. Just had a huge counterfeit ring busted here about a week ago or so. But again, it's risk. No matter what, people will copy whatever form of currency has value. It's just a way of life. Let the Fed deal with it like everyone else has to. Just don't inconvenience the people who pay for your business to be open.

I used to like most small businesses. They used to have the best service. Used to. Now, I just wish they'd go away and make way for ones who can function in 2010. There's only one place...ONE...that I still go to after finding out they don't accept Discover (actually they don't accept any CCs). It's a little mom-n-pop drive in. But they have the best homemade raspberry shakes I've ever had. So I continue to go there. Oddly enough, they'll gladly take a check...and even cash. I could go for a shake right now..

[radi8]

If you don't like the terms presented- walk away.

That's funny...these small business are so worried about "loss" that they end up losing customers...which is the whole point of being in business.

I used to like most small businesses. They used to have the best service. Used to. Now, I just wish they'd go away and make way for ones who can function in 2010. There's only one place...ONE...that I still go to after finding out they don't accept Discover (actually they don't accept any CCs). It's a little mom-n-pop drive in. But they have the best homemade raspberry shakes I've ever had. So I continue to go there. Oddly enough, they'll gladly take a check...and even cash. I could go for a shake right now..

The question is which is a greater loss- losing a certain % of their customers, or losing money to fraud and/or fees.
If they lose 10% of their customers- but it saves 20% in losses or costs- it's a different story than running off 10% of their customers to save only 2%. I'm sure some will figure it out by trial and error and some will guess wrong.
It's just not a big deal to me, lol. If I don't like their terms I'll just shop elsewhere. That fact may or may not matter to them. If they lose enough money they'll either reverse course, or go out of business. Again- that isn't my problem. Fun to watch though.


Oddly enough it seems the little mom & pop stores around here are the most likely to still accept checks. It's the big chain places that raise a stink.
I hate getting stuck behind a check writer at Kmart or the rare expedition to DumpMart, it's a 10 minute process for them to call the Manager over for approval, run the check through their authorization terminal, stand around while the customer gets offended and roots around for cash when the check is denied... Bah. They should just not accept them at all and be done with it.
I write one check a month for my electric bill because they charge a 3% "convenience fee" for plastic. Can't vote with my feet there, they're the only utility company in town.

[hegemony]

bump...this is still working like a charm. subprime merchants have yet to take the $100 over a credit or charge card.

[frank22]

bump...this is still working like a charm. subprime merchants have yet to take the $100 over a credit or charge card.

Still fighting the good fight! The stores must get a kick out of you! A trip down memory lane reading this thread.


It doesn't seem like much has been happening on this front though. In my area there has not been any increase in minimums, the same stores have them that did though(very few). Some merchants had said they would be looking at offering cash discounts, but I haven't seen any of those either. It seems like the bill both sides fought for had little effect? I did say before that the bill could spur the card industry to lower the per swipe fee, this would eliminate the need for the merchants to want to have minimums. Did that happen, at least to some degree?

I am not interested in bringing up past discussions(wasn't that fun?), I am really asking what has been the fallout?

[hegemony]

bump...this is still working like a charm. subprime merchants have yet to take the $100 over a credit or charge card.

Still fighting the good fight! The stores must get a kick out of you! A trip down memory lane reading this thread.


It doesn't seem like much has been happening on this front though. In my area there has not been any increase in minimums, the same stores have them that did though(very few). Some merchants had said they would be looking at offering cash discounts, but I haven't seen any of those either. It seems like the bill both sides fought for had little effect? I did say before that the bill could spur the card industry to lower the per swipe fee, this would eliminate the need for the merchants to want to have minimums. Did that happen, at least to some degree?

I am not interested in bringing up past discussions(wasn't that fun?), I am really asking what has been the fallout?

I give the merchant a choice. they could take the $100 bill if they value subprime cash so much. but they don't.

I have not seen much movement on the regulation proposals etc. such things are beyond my pay grade. I just pay for retail items in a manner that best serves my interests. if a merchant gave me an incentive to change, I would.

[Uncle Leo]

What's this I read about "new rules" regarding some minimums and maximums being acceptable? Did I miss something in my hiatus?

[frank22]

What's this I read about "new rules" regarding some minimums and maximums being acceptable? Did I miss something in my hiatus?

http://blog.vantagec...-Frank-Act.aspx

The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act contains two provisions that impact card acceptance by US merchants:

Using discounts to incentivize preferred payment types
Setting thresholds for the acceptance of credit cards for payment.

These items do not have explicit “in force” dates, so should be effective now that the bill was signed into law on July 21, 2010.

Under the law, payment card networks are restricted from limiting merchants’ ability to offer discounts to incentivize customers to use payment types preferred by the merchants. Merchants would have legal protection under the law to offer customers discounts to pay with cash, check, or debit instead of a credit card. Merchants would not be able to offer a discount for payment with one card brand instead of another, or by cards issued by one issuer instead of another issuer.

Merchants are also able to set a minimum transaction threshold for credit card transactions only. The minimum amount must not exceed $10.00 (a merchant could set a smaller minimum if they wish). The law allows merchants who are federal agencies or institutions of higher education to set maximum transaction amounts on credit card transactions. Merchants should be cautioned that minimum and maximum transaction amounts do not apply to debit card transactions under this law, and that the card associations can still cite violations of the regulations for debit card transactions.

I haven't seen any sign of it at all though.

This is also the bill that allows the Fed Reserve to write the rules on debit card fees.

[frank22]

What's this I read about "new rules" regarding some minimums and maximums being acceptable? Did I miss something in my hiatus?

This was the main thread on this.

http://creditboards....ic=441438&st=50

[Castleton]

Minimums above $10 remain illegal.

The OP need not do this. Simply report them and the nonsense will stop.

http://creditboards....howtopic=265954

[Uncle Leo]

What's this I read about "new rules" regarding some minimums and maximums being acceptable? Did I miss something in my hiatus?

This was the main thread on this.

http://creditboards....ic=441438&st=50

Informative. Thanks.