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CC minimums will soon be legal


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133 replies to this topic

#1 soldiergurl74

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:10 PM

http://consumerist.c...it-charges.html



#2 hinklesc

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 02:12 AM

Refusing to shop at merchants that have minimums still legal as well.

As a matter of fact, I ate lunch at a small restaurant recently. When I go somewhere new I always make sure they have the card symbols on the door for acceptance. After ordering I notice a "$10 minimum on credit cards", small behind the register.

I was going to test it, check came to $8.50. I gave waitress my card and she ran it no questions asked. I WANTED an argument. :D

#3 thelowpriceleader

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 03:08 AM

Many businesses have a difficult time measuring the amount of sales they lose due to these policies, especially when they have had this sort of policy in place for an extended time period. But businesses that attempt to impose a "new' minimum purchase requirement, after customers have been coming in for years and not had any such policy, risks losing a lot of customers. I know a business that did this (a convenience store, with three locations) and the results were a disaster. They have since gone back on having a minimum. I suppose it is also possible MasterCard did something since I reported all of their locations. But, the way their manager explained it to me, the decision was because they "lost a whole lot of business."

I actually think a surcharge will go over better with customers than a minimum.

I'd avoid businesses with either, unless they were so much cheaper that their price with the surcharge was less than a nearby place that did not surcharge.

Edited by thelowpriceleader, 29 June 2010 - 03:08 AM.


#4 TrevorHere

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:59 AM

I actually think a surcharge will go over better with customers than a minimum.


Not sure about that. But, each biz that enacts this policy will got through trial and error. May not go over well with many of their customers. Especially in areas where competition is fierce. Some of their customers simply do not carry more than a small sum of cash around for day to day biz...

#5 centex

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 10:13 AM

Refusing to shop at merchants that have minimums still legal as well.

As a matter of fact, I ate lunch at a small restaurant recently. When I go somewhere new I always make sure they have the card symbols on the door for acceptance. After ordering I notice a "$10 minimum on credit cards", small behind the register.

I was going to test it, check came to $8.50. I gave waitress my card and she ran it no questions asked. I WANTED an argument. ;)


small restaurant/waitress tells me that they likely anticipated that the tip brought it to ten bucks anyhow...

#6 hegemony

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:07 PM

I will not shop anywhere that implements a min. or does not sell items for the same price, credit or cash.

I will then send a post card to each place that I start to avoid informing them of the reason they are losing customers.

but I am not unreasonable. I will start carrying cash for those subprime merchants who want to treat credit card users as second class citizens.

I am going to carry a single $100 bill and then let the subprime merchant decide if it want to give me $95 in change or take my credit card...subprime CASH has a real cost too...

#7 hinklesc

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:49 PM

Refusing to shop at merchants that have minimums still legal as well.

As a matter of fact, I ate lunch at a small restaurant recently. When I go somewhere new I always make sure they have the card symbols on the door for acceptance. After ordering I notice a "$10 minimum on credit cards", small behind the register.

I was going to test it, check came to $8.50. I gave waitress my card and she ran it no questions asked. I WANTED an argument. :lol:


small restaurant/waitress tells me that they likely anticipated that the tip brought it to ten bucks anyhow...


Actually sandwich only $6.50. She did not do enough to deserve a $3.50 (50%+) tip. Only brought me a sandwich, catsup and fry sauce.

#8 frank22

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:31 PM

I will not shop anywhere that implements a min. or does not sell items for the same price, credit or cash.

I will then send a post card to each place that I start to avoid informing them of the reason they are losing customers.

but I am not unreasonable. I will start carrying cash for those subprime merchants who want to treat credit card users as second class citizens.

I am going to carry a single $100 bill and then let the subprime merchant decide if it want to give me $95 in change or take my credit card...subprime CASH has a real cost too...


Don't you mean customer(singular) I know you think there is going to be a great groundswell of revolting credit card users, but my experience is that not that many get crazy over this at all. I know they all come to the internets, but they just might not add up to much. The cost to merchants may be just losing a few unprofitable customers. They will think your postcard is pretty funny and will share it with the help.

I did see where someone posted about one place where customers were not happy, but that could be much more about how it was implemented. A long enough notice and a nice explanation will do wonders.

You could also be a little disappointed, because there may be a lot of merchants who do not impose the minimums. They might have few customers who make small purchases with the cards, and not think it worth the hassle. This will give you little to get outraged about, but worse, you will not be able to call and complain about those that do. You won't have the rule to fall back on, your outrage will fall on deaf ears(except for here). You have to see that you take this more seriously than 99.9999% of the population, don't you? Losing the .00001% isn't going to mean much, especially at a loss.

What happens if there is just a discount for cash, what is wrong with that? You lose nothing, but others get a choice. Aren't you pro-choice? I bet you are in other things. B)

Don't we have fun?

Edited by frank22, 29 June 2010 - 07:39 PM.


#9 hegemony

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:45 PM

I will not shop anywhere that implements a min. or does not sell items for the same price, credit or cash.

I will then send a post card to each place that I start to avoid informing them of the reason they are losing customers.

but I am not unreasonable. I will start carrying cash for those subprime merchants who want to treat credit card users as second class citizens.

I am going to carry a single $100 bill and then let the subprime merchant decide if it want to give me $95 in change or take my credit card...subprime CASH has a real cost too...


Don't you mean customer(singular) I know you think there is going to be a great groundswell of revolting credit card users, but my experience is that not that many get crazy over this at all. I know they all come to the internets, but they just might not add up to much. The cost to merchants may be just losing a few unprofitable customers. They will think your postcard is pretty funny and will share it with the help.

I did see where someone posted about one place where customers were not happy, but that could be much more about how it was implemented. A long enough notice and a nice explanation will do wonders.

You could also be a little disappointed, because there may be a lot of merchants who do not impose the minimums. They might have few customers who make small purchases with the cards, and not think it worth the hassle. This will give you little to get outraged about, but worse, you will not be able to call and complain about those that do. You won't have the rule to fall back on, your outrage will fall on deaf ears(except for here). You have to see that you take this more seriously than 99.9999% of the population, don't you? Losing the .00001% isn't going to mean much, especially at a loss.

What happens if there is just a discount for cash, what is wrong with that? You lose nothing, but others get a choice. Aren't you pro-choice? I bet you are in other things. :P

Don't we have fun?



:)

merchants love losing high income households.

#10 frank22

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:55 PM

:)

merchants love losing high income households.


A loss is a loss is a loss.........

You can say that your $5 charge today, is going to be a $100 charge tomorrow, but it won't be the case at most of the places that have the $5 charges, and it won't be the case with most customers. The best thing is each merchant will be able to make his own choices based on his own business and those that agree with you will be able to keep doing what they are doing.

There are many decisions merchants make that may mean not satisfying all customers, this is just one of them.

What about this question:

What happens if there is just a discount for cash, what is wrong with that? You lose nothing, but others get a choice.


Edited by frank22, 29 June 2010 - 09:12 PM.


#11 hegemony

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:00 PM

:)

merchants love losing high income households.


A loss is a loss is a loss.........

You can say that your $5 charge today, is going to be a $100 charge tomorrow, but it won't be the case at most of the places that have the $5 charges, and it won't be the case with most customers. The best thing is each will merchant will be able to make his own choices based on his own business and those that agree with you will be able to keep doing what they are doing.

There are many decisions merchants make that may mean not satisfying all customers, this is just one of them.

What about this question:

What happens if there is just a discount for cash, what is wrong with that? You lose nothing, but others get a choice.


I already avoid one local establishment that discounts for cash.

my choice. for some reason you always have a problem with my choices.

#12 TrevorHere

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:02 PM

I will not shop anywhere that implements a min. or does not sell items for the same price, credit or cash.

I will then send a post card to each place that I start to avoid informing them of the reason they are losing customers.

but I am not unreasonable. I will start carrying cash for those subprime merchants who want to treat credit card users as second class citizens.

I am going to carry a single $100 bill and then let the subprime merchant decide if it want to give me $95 in change or take my credit card...subprime CASH has a real cost too...

:)

#13 hegemony

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:03 PM

I will not shop anywhere that implements a min. or does not sell items for the same price, credit or cash.

I will then send a post card to each place that I start to avoid informing them of the reason they are losing customers.

but I am not unreasonable. I will start carrying cash for those subprime merchants who want to treat credit card users as second class citizens.

I am going to carry a single $100 bill and then let the subprime merchant decide if it want to give me $95 in change or take my credit card...subprime CASH has a real cost too...

:)


I can't wait to report back on how the merchants react :P

#14 improper_validation

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:27 PM

I am going to join the pact- I won't purchase anything from a business that has a minimum. They will soon find out that they have less business and will go back to no minimum.

#15 radi8

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 01:51 AM

I know you think there is going to be a great groundswell of revolting credit card users, but my experience is that not that many get crazy over this at all. I know they all come to the internets, but they just might not add up to much.


Overall it'll be a ho-hum event. I'll venture that 95% of the customers won't care, and the 5% they lose will be more than offset by the folks who either buy more to hit the minimum, or pay cash for small purchases and save the processing fees.
Using a CC to purchase a $0.95 Snickers bar is ludicrous, it isn't that difficult to carry a modest amount of cash for small purchases.

It's one of those rules that IMO Visa/MC is more than willing to forget about anyway. I have yet to see a verifiable instance of complaints about CC minimums actually being pursued.
If Visa/MC won't enforce their own rules they're pointless to even have.... and they don't enforce them because pissing off a merchant costs them far more than pissing off the small handful of consumers who complain.

#16 Grizzly Bear

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:28 AM

Actually a 5% loss of customers would be huge even with the little "offsets" you mentioned. Keeping customers happy(or unhappy) is of far more consequence than you (and many poorly run businesses) realize.

#17 frank22

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:33 AM

Actually a 5% loss of customers would be huge even with the little "offsets" you mentioned. Keeping customers happy(or unhappy) is of far more consequence than you (and many poorly run businesses) realize.


Not in anyone's wildest imaginations would there be a 5% drop of in sales(that was thrown out as an example), but if there were, a drop off in sales that brought in no profits or losses would be welcome. Many businesses have found by really crunching the numbers they have many customers that cost more than they bring in. That is what they say about these customers, and while many here disagree, or rationalize it, it is the merchants who run their business, so I am thinking they may know better.

You want to keep profitable customers happy, and if possible make unprofitable customers profitable ones, but blindly keeping all customers happy is not usually the best thing. Some customers are just not worth having, even rich ones.

The main thing is they will have a choice, and even though some may make a wrong choice I think they should be able to make it, like they do with every other cost.

A real possibility is that banks will want to keep the small transaction customer, and will change the fee structure to be more accommodating. This possibility does not seem to be accepted here because everyone is presently focusing on their outrage, but banks want us to go for our cards without thinking, anything that changes that dynamic will get a response from them. It seems to me they will be better off lowering these fees a bit. It likely will bring in more revenue. They will respond to the market(after some posturing) the way it will be, not the way it is now.

Edited by frank22, 02 July 2010 - 11:36 AM.


#18 centex

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:16 PM

I know you think there is going to be a great groundswell of revolting credit card users, but my experience is that not that many get crazy over this at all. I know they all come to the internets, but they just might not add up to much.


Overall it'll be a ho-hum event. I'll venture that 95% of the customers won't care, and the 5% they lose will be more than offset by the folks who either buy more to hit the minimum, or pay cash for small purchases and save the processing fees.
Using a CC to purchase a $0.95 Snickers bar is ludicrous, it isn't that difficult to carry a modest amount of cash for small purchases.

It's one of those rules that IMO Visa/MC is more than willing to forget about anyway. I have yet to see a verifiable instance of complaints about CC minimums actually being pursued.
If Visa/MC won't enforce their own rules they're pointless to even have.... and they don't enforce them because pissing off a merchant costs them far more than pissing off the small handful of consumers who complain.


Even if you presume that 5% might take umbrage, I would venture to say the number that absolutely refuse to carry currency would be in the tenths of a percent. Few people are as uptight as a few posters in this thread claim to be...and the local corner store probably won't care about losing the Life Nits.

#19 hegemony

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 03:30 PM

Using a CC to purchase a $0.95 Snickers bar is ludicrous, it isn't that difficult to carry a modest amount of cash for small purchases.

that is why I now carry a single $100 bill. take my card with no B.S. mins or give me change...

#20 radi8

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:23 PM

Using a CC to purchase a $0.95 Snickers bar is ludicrous, it isn't that difficult to carry a modest amount of cash for small purchases.

that is why I now carry a single $100 bill. take my card with no B.S. mins or give me change...



If the point of your visit were to get a Snickers bar, carrying a $5 or a $10 would seem prudent.
OTOH if your point is to create a scene a $100 should do nicely. :o
I suspect the end result will be you leaving the store sans Snickers as many places won't take bills over $50 or $100. But you walking DID cost them approximately $0.10 profit. That'll teach 'em. :rolleyes:

What is your "cash back" reward on a $0.95 candy bar, $0.047? My ideological outrage doesn't kick in until there's real money on the table.

#21 hegemony

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:35 PM

Using a CC to purchase a $0.95 Snickers bar is ludicrous, it isn't that difficult to carry a modest amount of cash for small purchases.

that is why I now carry a single $100 bill. take my card with no B.S. mins or give me change...



If the point of your visit were to get a Snickers bar, carrying a $5 or a $10 would seem prudent.
OTOH if your point is to create a scene a $100 should do nicely. :o
I suspect the end result will be you leaving the store sans Snickers as many places won't take bills over $50 or $100. But you walking DID cost them approximately $0.10 profit. That'll teach 'em. :rolleyes:

What is your "cash back" reward on a $0.95 candy bar, $0.047? My ideological outrage doesn't kick in until there's real money on the table.


how is it that many places, such as starbucks, don't bat an eye at a 1.98 transaction but these merchants all cry foul?

#22 radi8

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:40 PM

how is it that many places, such as starbucks, don't bat an eye at a 1.98 transaction but these merchants all cry foul?



What at Starbucks is $1.98? When you charge north of $3 for a cup of coffee, you have some pretty good margins to play with. :(

#23 athensgaguy

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:43 PM

how is it that many places, such as starbucks, don't bat an eye at a 1.98 transaction but these merchants all cry foul?



What at Starbucks is $1.98? When you charge north of $3 for a cup of coffee, you have some pretty good margins to play with. :(

Around here, a large coffee is about 2 dollars at Starbucks.

McDonald's also doesn't seem to complain about purchases of any size.

#24 frank22

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:49 PM

how is it that many places, such as starbucks, don't bat an eye at a 1.98 transaction but these merchants all cry foul?



What at Starbucks is $1.98? When you charge north of $3 for a cup of coffee, you have some pretty good margins to play with. :(


Plus the corporations are able to negotiate a smaller per transaction swipe fee. It costs them less.

#25 hegemony

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:09 PM

how is it that many places, such as starbucks, don't bat an eye at a 1.98 transaction but these merchants all cry foul?



What at Starbucks is $1.98? When you charge north of $3 for a cup of coffee, you have some pretty good margins to play with. :(

I don't drink milkshakes. espresso is under $2 :)




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