98 replies to this topic

[breeze]

There's a difference between getting a card stolen and getting your ID stolen, isn't there? The first is pretty easy to deal with - it's happened to me several times. The second seems to haunt you forever.

[Grizzly Bear]

Apparently the posts have to be about showing ID in Las Vegas.

SO SHOWING ID (with a credit card sale) IN LOST WAGES IS A REASON TO PARTY

You are with the in crowd (IN FAVOR OF SHOWING ID)

I still want to know WHO they are protecting when they ask for ID

I don't need their protection

If someone shows up in LV with YOUR card that ISN'Y you, I am reasonably certain you would be appreciative of a sale not taking place PRECISELY because someone asked for ID...

Again. it wouldn't help that someone checked ID because there are millions of other places the card could be used. Why do you not grasp that simple concept?

Edited by Grizzly Bear, 05 January 2010 - 07:50 PM.

[centex]

Apparently the posts have to be about showing ID in Las Vegas.

SO SHOWING ID (with a credit card sale) IN LOST WAGES IS A REASON TO PARTY

You are with the in crowd (IN FAVOR OF SHOWING ID)

I still want to know WHO they are protecting when they ask for ID

I don't need their protection

If someone shows up in LV with YOUR card that ISN'Y you, I am reasonably certain you would be appreciative of a sale not taking place PRECISELY because someone asked for ID...

Again. it wouldn't help that someone checked ID because there are millions of other places the card could be used. Why do you not grasp that simple concept?

Perhaps it is because I lived the nightmare and checking ID WOULD have prevented many of the losses (if not all of them, based upon the size of the losses). You try recovering from nearly $200K and then come back and tell me YOU won't think differently...

[Grizzly Bear]

Apparently the posts have to be about showing ID in Las Vegas.

SO SHOWING ID (with a credit card sale) IN LOST WAGES IS A REASON TO PARTY

You are with the in crowd (IN FAVOR OF SHOWING ID)

I still want to know WHO they are protecting when they ask for ID

I don't need their protection

If someone shows up in LV with YOUR card that ISN'Y you, I am reasonably certain you would be appreciative of a sale not taking place PRECISELY because someone asked for ID...

Again. it wouldn't help that someone checked ID because there are millions of other places the card could be used. Why do you not grasp that simple concept?

Perhaps it is because I lived the nightmare and checking ID WOULD have prevented many of the losses (if not all of them, based upon the size of the losses). You try recovering from nearly $200K and then come back and tell me YOU won't think differently...

Again, they would have just used the card somewhere else.

[GEORGE]

Apparently the posts have to be about showing ID in Las Vegas.

SO SHOWING ID (with a credit card sale) IN LOST WAGES IS A REASON TO PARTY

You are with the in crowd (IN FAVOR OF SHOWING ID)

I still want to know WHO they are protecting when they ask for ID

I don't need their protection

If someone shows up in LV with YOUR card that ISN'Y you, I am reasonably certain you would be appreciative of a sale not taking place PRECISELY because someone asked for ID...

Again. it wouldn't help that someone checked ID because there are millions of other places the card could be used. Why do you not grasp that simple concept?

ADD...........

COLLEGE CROWD--->go to the border like south of SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA get your fake ID to prove you are over 21 so you can drink...how hard would it be to get one so you can use a "BORROWED" credit card???

("BORROWED" wouldn't want to accuse anybody of theft)

Edited by GEORGE, 05 January 2010 - 08:52 PM.

[BananaTheDog]

I just got back from the grocery store where I went through the self checkout. When I pressed the pay by credit button the automated voice blurted out, louder than really is appropriate, "Please wait for cashier assistance," The clerk ran up to me and asked for my ID, I asked if he was aware that it was against visa/mc policy to ask for ID and he said, "The only reason we ask for ID is because you don't have to sign your receipt," This seemed pretty reasonable to me, I said, "Fair enough," and went on my way.

[Uncle Leo]

Again, they would have just used the card somewhere else.

So you admit that their current method of ID verification and fraud prevention (signature comparison) is a huge fail.

[Quarterchips]

So you admit that their current method of ID verification and fraud prevention (signature comparison) is a huge fail.


George--care to address the above?

I think they should have a pin # for confirmation, at least it would be a 2nd line defense--just like a debit card transaction.

[BBQ123]

I just got back from the grocery store where I went through the self checkout. When I pressed the pay by credit button the automated voice blurted out, louder than really is appropriate, "Please wait for cashier assistance," The clerk ran up to me and asked for my ID, I asked if he was aware that it was against visa/mc policy to ask for ID and he said, "The only reason we ask for ID is because you don't have to sign your receipt," This seemed pretty reasonable to me, I said, "Fair enough," and went on my way.

Still a violation -- they can't replace a signature with ID checks.

(There is a program to eliminate signatures for small sales under $25 or $50 at some places, and under this program ID checking still is not allowed.)

[GEORGE]

I just got back from the grocery store where I went through the self checkout. When I pressed the pay by credit button the automated voice blurted out, louder than really is appropriate, "Please wait for cashier assistance," The clerk ran up to me and asked for my ID, I asked if he was aware that it was against visa/mc policy to ask for ID and he said,
"The only reason we ask for ID is because you don't have to sign your receipt,"
This seemed pretty reasonable to me, I said, "Fair enough," and went on my way.

...AND I DON'T SIGN AT TACO BELL

...AND McDONALDS

...AND BURGER KING

NEXT EXCUSE...

Edited by GEORGE, 05 January 2010 - 09:59 PM.

[GEORGE]

So you admit that their current method of ID verification and fraud prevention (signature comparison) is a huge fail.


George--care to address the above?

I think they should have a pin # for confirmation, at least it would be a 2nd line defense--just like a debit card transaction.

FROM ONE OF THE MANY HATE and BAIT CLUB MEMBERS

[GEORGE]

I WOULD GO FOR PIN NUMBER

"IF" I COULD PICK THE NUMBER

"IF" I COULD CHANGE IT ON-LINE or BY TOLL FREE PHONE NUMBER 24/7

"IF" THERE WAS NO NAME ON THE CARD TO ELIMINATE ANY REASON FOR FOOLS ASKING FOR ID

Edited by GEORGE, 05 January 2010 - 10:17 PM.

[BBQ123]

A PIN system would speed up purchasing (no need to hand over card, no need to sign, no need to compare signatures, etc.)... but I would only support a PIN system if the zero-liability for fraud remained as it does with signature systems.

[GEORGE]

A PIN system would speed up purchasing (no need to hand over card, no need to sign, no need to compare signatures, etc.)... but I would only support a PIN system if the zero-liability for fraud remained as it does with signature systems.

PIN # WOULD BE THE SAME AS A SIGNATURE

[wanabe]

How about when I used a credit card at the clinic they asked for ID and wrote my DL# and credit card # on their copy.
I told her it is one thing to ask for Id but to display all that on the copy is against the law. She told me to pay cash
from now on because that is their policy.

Edited by wanabe, 05 January 2010 - 10:29 PM.

[GEORGE]

How about when I used a credit card at the clinic they asked for ID and wrote my DL# and credit card # on their copy.
I told her it is one thing to ask for Id but to display all that on the copy is against the law. She told me to pay cash
from now on because that is their policy.

SORRY CREDIT CARD POLICY and THE LAW SAYS OTHER-WISE

Report them

Edited by GEORGE, 05 January 2010 - 10:34 PM.

[Uncle Leo]

I just got back from the grocery store where I went through the self checkout. When I pressed the pay by credit button the automated voice blurted out, louder than really is appropriate, "Please wait for cashier assistance," The clerk ran up to me and asked for my ID, I asked if he was aware that it was against visa/mc policy to ask for ID and he said, "The only reason we ask for ID is because you don't have to sign your receipt," This seemed pretty reasonable to me, I said, "Fair enough," and went on my way.

One, they have self-checkout by their choice. Two, there's a program to allow no signatures for purchase. So, their excise fails on both counts.

[Uncle Leo]

How about when I used a credit card at the clinic they asked for ID and wrote my DL# and credit card # on their copy. I told her it is one thing to ask for Id but to display all that on the copy is against the law. She told me to pay cash from now on because that is their policy.

I would definitely report them to the AG for that one.

[BananaTheDog]

A PIN system would speed up purchasing (no need to hand over card, no need to sign, no need to compare signatures, etc.)... but I would only support a PIN system if the zero-liability for fraud remained as it does with signature systems.

PIN # WOULD BE THE SAME AS A SIGNATURE

No PIN #, machine asked for zip code only.

[2fast]

Apparently the posts have to be about showing ID in Las Vegas.

SO SHOWING ID (with a credit card sale) IN LOST WAGES IS A REASON TO PARTY

You are with the in crowd (IN FAVOR OF SHOWING ID)

I still want to know WHO they are protecting when they ask for ID

I don't need their protection

If someone shows up in LV with YOUR card that ISN'Y you, I am reasonably certain you would be appreciative of a sale not taking place PRECISELY because someone asked for ID...

Zero liability.

*snort* yeah, right. The only people that taut it are those that never got hit with fraud...

True, but note that even if the 100% fraud liability waiver did work 100% of the time, certain people don't understand that the merchant is usually out the money.
George could care less whether or not the merchant looses money as long as he doesn't. More to that point he's against the merchant doing anything to protect themselves, even though the impact to him may be 3 seconds at the POS.
The argument that people like using "fake ID's are easy to get" makes me laugh. Does George have a fake ID with my name on it? If Wal Mart carded 100% of the time and I dropped my card at Wal Mart, what are the odds that it'll be used at that store on that day? Very small, so someone who found my card would have to go somewhere else to use my card and possibly give me time to notice it's loss and shut it down saving either myself or the next merchant from the loss.
It's a really simple concept for anyone who cares about anything outside of what directly affects them on a moment by moment basis.

I'm sure if my money came from running stolen cards I'd have a copy of the Visa TOS in my wallet, I'm sure every time George walks away from a sale he's just reassuring the cashier that they just stopped frud by carding him.

And to the OP, to answer your question... The point of caring is to take a technicality put in place by a marketing gimmick of falsly created id theft fear used by the card industry to give them an advantage against checks (which were the preferred method of payment) and use it as a way to think you know more about the rules than the merchant.
It's important to ignore the fact that the merchant already knows their TOS in most cases and is carding to protect themselves from fraud (and handing out free merchandise as a result).
It's also important to ignore the fact that while even though Visa offers a 100% fraud waiver, someone will be paying the bill if your card is stolen and used.
It is important to forget that the rules you carry into battle as your flag were set in place a long time ago and were not put in place by the fraud mitegation department and have been the subject of much heated debate within the Visa company.
In short, as long as you're shortsighted enough to not care about the risk to you, or care about the loss to the merchant then pick up your flag, throw a copy of the TOS in your wallet and go show them how big you are. If this is something you worry about andyou can't see any truth in the opposing argument it'll probably be the largest battle you're equipped to fight.

Edited by 2fast, 06 January 2010 - 11:50 AM.

[centex]

2fast, like you, I also find the false/fake ID thing to be something that some around here make out to be FAAAAAAR more common that is really is, just as the cloning is WAAAAAY overblown. I've been involved with enough clients and/or cases who got charged with the various theft/fraud/CCA offenses to know that very few were found with fake ID's that matched the cards in their possession. Even fewer were found with cloning equipment, although I did post about one prospective client that got popped in Louisiana precisely because a clerk asked for ID, at which time the co-defendant boogied from the store. At the time of the felony car stop, a laptop and card-reader was found where the suspects were encoding other information onto cards in the name of the subject.

But, again, very few around here have had to deal with the aftermath and so it becomes easier for them to rail against a minor inconvenience that has a far greater prospect of HELPING them rather than subjecting them to risk...