Crediyt Card Fees

[gallagheria]

I constantly see how stores are not allowed to charge extra for credit card purchases, which usually happens at the trash gas stations/convenience stores. However, I was reading the rules on the Mastercard website, and it reads:

A Merchant must not directly or indirectly require any Cardholder to pay a

surcharge or any part of any Merchant discount or any contemporaneous

finance charge in connection with a Transaction. A Merchant may provide a

discount to its customers for cash payments.

How is that not the same thing? In other words, if you buy this soda, it is $1.00 with cash, but $1.10 with credit card, because you are getting a .10 discount for paying with cash? It seems the rules are saying that is okay. Edited April 1, 2009 by gallagheria

[Uncle Leo]

I constantly see how stores are not allowed to charge extra for credit card purchases, which usually happens at the trash gas stations/convenience stores. However, I was reading the rules on the Mastercard website, and it reads:

A Merchant must not directly or indirectly require any Cardholder to pay a

surcharge or any part of any Merchant discount or any contemporaneous

finance charge in connection with a Transaction. A Merchant may provide a

discount to its customers for cash payments.

How is that not the same thing? In other words, if you buy this soda, it is $1.00 with cash, but $1.10 with credit card, because you are getting a .10 discount for paying with cash? It seems the rules are saying that is okay.

 

It is the same thing, but sometimes specific semantics makes people feel better.

[gallagheria]

Visa's says the same thing.

[thelowpriceleader]

It is stupid, but basically all about how they word it:

 

VIOLATION:

 

Soda $1.00

Credit Card Fee $0.39

Total $1.39

 

Okay:

 

Soda $1.39

Cash Discount -$0.39

Total: $1.00

 

Same thing in my book. The bottom line is the credit card user is paying a higher price than the cash customer. Regardless of how the numbers are broken down, the net result is the same and that is a higher price for the credit card user.

 

I opt to not visit stores with "cash discounts" or split pricing such as gas stations that post a CASH and a CREDIT price.

[Uncle Leo]

It is stupid, but basically all about how they word it:

 

VIOLATION:

 

Soda $1.00

Credit Card Fee $0.39

Total $1.39

 

Okay:

 

Soda $1.39

Cash Discount -$0.39

Total: $1.00

 

Same thing in my book. The bottom line is the credit card user is paying a higher price than the cash customer. Regardless of how the numbers are broken down, the net result is the same and that is a higher price for the credit card user.

 

I opt to not visit stores with "cash discounts" or split pricing such as gas stations that post a CASH and a CREDIT price.

 

"Cash discounts" do tend to be rare, though. In my experience, most by gas stations, and even then they seldom last at a given gas station for very long.

[Continental]

Same thing in my book. The bottom line is the credit card user is paying a higher price than the cash customer. Regardless of how the numbers are broken down, the net result is the same and that is a higher price for the credit card user.

 

I opt to not visit stores with "cash discounts" or split pricing such as gas stations that post a CASH and a CREDIT price.

"Cash discounts" do tend to be rare, though. In my experience, most by gas stations, and even then they seldom last at a given gas station for very long.

...especially when you report them.

[thelowpriceleader]

Cash discounts seem to be very popular at gas stations in California for some reason. They seem rare to non-existant anywhere else.

 

I have seen a few stations locally start a cash discount on gas, then eliminate it fairly quickly.

[GEORGE]

Cash discounts seem to be very popular at gas stations in California for some reason. They seem rare to non-existant anywhere else.

 

I have seen a few stations locally start a cash discount on gas, then eliminate it fairly quickly.

People pass it up and go to another gas station that does NOT play games

 

It is not like they are the only place in town

[centex]

Same thing in my book. The bottom line is the credit card user is paying a higher price than the cash customer. Regardless of how the numbers are broken down, the net result is the same and that is a higher price for the credit card user.

 

I opt to not visit stores with "cash discounts" or split pricing such as gas stations that post a CASH and a CREDIT price.

"Cash discounts" do tend to be rare, though. In my experience, most by gas stations, and even then they seldom last at a given gas station for very long.

...especially when you report them.

 

There is NOTHING upon which to base a LEGITIMATE 'report.' Discounts for cash are EXPRESSLY PERMITTED by merchant agreement.

 

Or do we interpret your comment to be that people should file frivolous complaints?

[Continental]

Cash discounts seem to be very popular at gas stations in California for some reason. They seem rare to non-existant anywhere else.

 

I have seen a few stations locally start a cash discount on gas, then eliminate it fairly quickly.

Most major retailers forbid the practice. It’s usually only crooked independent places that attempt to pull this stunt.

[thelowpriceleader]

It is actually against the branding agreements of the major oil companies to have a "cash discount." He may mean until you report the station to the oil company that branded it.

 

As far as unbranded indy stations go, they can do whatever they want.

 

There have been some issues with this... between the different brands, as a result of mergers etc.

[Uncle Leo]

Same thing in my book. The bottom line is the credit card user is paying a higher price than the cash customer. Regardless of how the numbers are broken down, the net result is the same and that is a higher price for the credit card user.

 

I opt to not visit stores with "cash discounts" or split pricing such as gas stations that post a CASH and a CREDIT price.

"Cash discounts" do tend to be rare, though. In my experience, most by gas stations, and even then they seldom last at a given gas station for very long.

...especially when you report them.

Please point out the card company policy that forbids cash discounts.

 

 

It is actually against the branding agreements of the major oil companies to have a "cash discount." He may mean until you report the station to the oil company that branded it.

Many of Cont's posts of late have been pushing the limits of misinformation (sometimes by omission), so he should clarify when he posts such things as this is a VISA/MC policy forum and not an oil company forum.

[Continental]

It is actually against the branding agreements of the major oil companies to have a "cash discount."

…which is why this scam is rare to nonexistent.

[centex]

Cash discounts seem to be very popular at gas stations in California for some reason. They seem rare to non-existant anywhere else.

 

I have seen a few stations locally start a cash discount on gas, then eliminate it fairly quickly.

Most major retailers forbid the practice. It’s usually only crooked independent places that attempt to pull this stunt.

 

So I guess ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco have been relegated to the status of 'crooked independent places'- I'm sure their stockholders will be interested in hearing that...

 

(as a hint, both offer cash discounts at many of the stations)- I've also seen a number of Texaco stations that offer the cash price to people using the Texaco card.

[Continental]

Did you report them?

[improper_validation]

My local oil dealer has a $.10/gallon cash discount when paid in 30 days.

 

$.05 credit discount when paid in 30 days.

 

If paid after 30 days, it's late.

 

Smells like a $.05/gallon CC fee.

Edited April 25, 2009 by wcnghj

[centex]

Did you report them?

 

NO! THERE IS NOTHING TO REPORT!

Edited April 25, 2009 by centex

[Uncle Leo]

Cash discounts seem to be very popular at gas stations in California for some reason. They seem rare to non-existant anywhere else.

 

I have seen a few stations locally start a cash discount on gas, then eliminate it fairly quickly.

Most major retailers forbid the practice. It’s usually only crooked independent places that attempt to pull this stunt.

It is actually against the branding agreements of the major oil companies to have a "cash discount."

…which is why this scam is rare to nonexistent.

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, a business practice (in this case "cash discounts") which is perfectly legal... AND expressly approved in writing by the credit card companies in their own merchant agreements... is somehow a 'scam' and is being perpetrated by dishonest 'crooked' merchants. Is that what you're saying?

 

 

Did you report them?

Report what? Serious question. Report what? The cash discount? Or, are you going to bury your head in the sand because you know the true answer is too inconvenient for your agenda? (As seems to be your M.O. of late.)

Edited April 25, 2009 by Uncle Leo

[cctmsp13]

I constantly see how stores are not allowed to charge extra for credit card purchases, which usually happens at the trash gas stations/convenience stores. However, I was reading the rules on the Mastercard website, and it reads:

A Merchant must not directly or indirectly require any Cardholder to pay a

surcharge or any part of any Merchant discount or any contemporaneous

finance charge in connection with a Transaction. A Merchant may provide a

discount to its customers for cash payments.

How is that not the same thing? In other words, if you buy this soda, it is $1.00 with cash, but $1.10 with credit card, because you are getting a .10 discount for paying with cash? It seems the rules are saying that is okay.

 

The difference is in how they have to advertise the product. The price it's marked on the shelves is the credit price, and then the cash discount is taken at the register.

 

This way the credit card user always knows he's paying the price shown on the shelves, and not more.

[thelowpriceleader]

I have never seen any Exxon or Mobil stations that offer a cash discount. I have also never seen any Chevron or Texaco stations that participate in this practice. I have been through at least eight states since the beginning of the year with these stations, and have not seen this. It may be common practice in your area, but it isn't in others.

 

I have seen a number of 76 and Valero Stations that engage in this practice. With 76 is where it gets interesting. 76 branding agreements supposedly allow for this cash discount practice. Not the same for the branding agreements of the other two brands under Conoco's umbrella.

 

Just like many merchants break the credit card acceptance rules, many gas station operators break their branding agreement. Just because you see something in practice does not mean it is within the terms of their branding agreement.

[centex]

I have never seen any Exxon or Mobil stations that offer a cash discount. I have also never seen any Chevron or Texaco stations that participate in this practice. I have been through at least eight states since the beginning of the year with these stations, and have not seen this. It may be common practice in your area, but it isn't in others.

 

Houston, Austin, Dallas for starters all have stations under the four banners that are offering cash discounts. I also saw some other brands in Oklahoma as recently as last month.

[Continental]

Are you familiar with the broken window theory? Sociological research suggests that non-enforcement of minor violations of laws or rules encourages further violations from others, resulting in a viscous cycle that continues to breed breaches of what is defined as acceptable behavior.

 

This isn't esoteric stuff. People are more likely to litter if a city does not respond to a litter problem with cleaning and enforcement. The mere presence of litter is likely to breed more litter, as those who are not inherently inclined to litter feel that they aren't creating a problem that doesn't already exist.

 

Anecdotal evidence presented in this forum suggests that violations tend to cluster. Certain cities, and even certain sections of cities, have a high concentration of violating merchants. Although correlation is not causation, the argument that violations breed violations does have merit.

[centex]

oh geez...how many times are you going to drag out a theory that you have copied and pasted from somewhere else in the attempt of making it seem like an original thought. Only in this instance, there is not even a broken window to speak of in the theoretical because a CASH DISCOUNT IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE VERY MERCHANT AGREEMENTS THAT YOU APPARENTLY TREAT THE WAY SOME PEOPLE TREAT PORN!!!

[Uncle Leo]

I have never seen any Exxon or Mobil stations that offer a cash discount. I have also never seen any Chevron or Texaco stations that participate in this practice. I have been through at least eight states since the beginning of the year with these stations, and have not seen this. It may be common practice in your area, but it isn't in others.

Houston, Austin, Dallas for starters all have stations under the four banners that are offering cash discounts. I also saw some other brands in Oklahoma as recently as last month.

I've seen many Chevron stations use cash discounts in California.

[thelowpriceleader]

How very strange. I have not come across a Chevron that does this, and I've been to many in California both corporate owned and franchise/dealer operated or similar agreement.

 

It is also my understanding that Chevron's standard mandated (Nucleus; not all stations use it, but many do) register system does not support a multi price model, so it would be very interesting to see how the station handles giving customers a cash discount.