JC Penney

[green2408]

So I was at Penney's a couple of days ago, where I've only shopped a few times but never had any trouble. I bought some $600 earrings and some clothing on sale for around $80, paid with Visa, no problems. I put it all in the same bag to consolidate and was leaving when I saw this great linen shirt for 5.99. I took it up to the checkout, the girl rang it up, I swiped my card, signed the terminal, she put it in the same bag, and then asked me for ID. I said my card is signed and handed it to her,she said I still need ID. I said the sale is completed, give me my receipt, and she said I have to call the manager.

 

Long story short FOUR different people ended up being summoned, 2 managers, a loss prevention person and a supervisor. One of the managers said she had voided the sale. At one point a manager successfully grabbed the bag out of my hand after a small tug of war, and they all started rummaging through my stuff looking for the offending blouse, which was now technically stolen property because they had voided the sale. Of course they were confused as to what was what. It was horrible, and hilarious in retrospect; meanwhile the customers behind me were getting in on it and yelling at them, putting in their two cents worth and egging me on.

 

What I should have done was just walked out without the receipt, wasn't in much danger for 5.99, and called the store manager the next day.

[Uncle Leo]

Purposely walking out without the receipt could have been a huge mistake. Too easy for them to claim you stole it. Sure, you could maybe defend yourself later with CC records, but that adds a whole extra level of hassle.

 

Generally, it's not technically stolen until you walk out the door without buying it.

[Maxima]

This seems to be a requirement at JC Penny. I can't recall when I have not been asked to show my ID. I have challenged, but complied each time. The cashier even show me the screen that says to compare the signature with a form of ID, Drivers License!! I am sure this is nothing locally, it has to be programmed from their corporate or head locations!!

[green2408]

This seems to be a requirement at JC Penny. I can't recall when I have not been asked to show my ID. I have challenged, but complied each time. The cashier even show me the screen that says to compare the signature with a form of ID, Drivers License!! I am sure this is nothing locally, it has to be programmed from their corporate or head locations!!

 

Maybe, but I've never had any problem there before, I usually just say "my card is signed" and they go OK, and even that day had bought some more expensive earrings, and then at another checkout point they go all ballistic for a 5.99 blouse. Go figure. At the very least it's discriminatory if they aren't following the same procedure all the time.

[thelowpriceleader]

No maxima the screen on the cashier side clearly says to ask for the customer's card and compare the signature on the card with what is below (your signature) and "if unsigned or CID, ask to see Driver's License or official form of ID.

 

Green, email the corporate office. You should receive a reply from the store manager.

[Continental]

meanwhile the customers behind me were getting in on it and yelling at them, putting in their two cents worth and egging me on.

Trying to get someone's ID is just about the most offensive and insulting thing the salamander cashier could do to a customer. When others see ID blasphemy take place they go ballistic. salamander cashier must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once. You compare the signature on the back of the credit card with the signature on the receipt. ID should never be asked for at all. No one should ever be put through such nonsense.

 

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

 

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

 

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or picture ID.

 

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement.

 

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

 

WHAT YOU CAN DO

 

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to: MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine.

 

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that issued your Visa card.

 

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

[Uncle Leo]

Trying to get someone's ID is just about the most offensive and insulting thing the salamander cashier could do to a customer. When others see ID blasphemy take place they go ballistic. salamander cashier must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once. You compare the signature on the back of the credit card with the signature on the receipt. ID should never be asked for at all. No one should ever be put through such nonsense.

 

Refer to the Spanish Inquisition for appropriate punishment. Make sure they walk with a limp afterward.

[credit_help]

I bought some $600 earrings and some clothing on sale for around $80, paid with Visa, no problems. I put it all in the same bag to consolidate and was leaving when I saw this great linen shirt for 5.99. I took it up to the checkout, the girl rang it up, I swiped my card, signed the terminal, she put it in the same bag, and then asked me for ID. I said my card is signed and handed it to her,she said I still need ID. I said the sale is completed, give me my receipt, and she said I have to call the manager.

Repeat purchases raise suspicion.

[Uncle Leo]

I bought some $600 earrings and some clothing on sale for around $80, paid with Visa, no problems. I put it all in the same bag to consolidate and was leaving when I saw this great linen shirt for 5.99. I took it up to the checkout, the girl rang it up, I swiped my card, signed the terminal, she put it in the same bag, and then asked me for ID. I said my card is signed and handed it to her,she said I still need ID. I said the sale is completed, give me my receipt, and she said I have to call the manager.

Repeat purchases raise suspicion.

 

Possibly, but would the last clerk have necessarily known there had been multiple purchases? JCP is a big store.

[green2408]

I bought some $600 earrings and some clothing on sale for around $80, paid with Visa, no problems. I put it all in the same bag to consolidate and was leaving when I saw this great linen shirt for 5.99. I took it up to the checkout, the girl rang it up, I swiped my card, signed the terminal, she put it in the same bag, and then asked me for ID. I said my card is signed and handed it to her,she said I still need ID. I said the sale is completed, give me my receipt, and she said I have to call the manager.

Repeat purchases raise suspicion.

 

Why on earth would repeat purchases raise suspicion, and more to the point why would it be a corporate policy to be suspicious of shoppers in your store who are making multiple purchases. It seems that would be what you want in a department store!!

[credit_help]

From http://merchants.visa.com/card/cardpresent.jsp#c10 :

 

Six warning signs of fraud at the Point-of-Sale

Certain customer behavior could point to card fraud, but it doesn't necessarily indicate criminal activity. You know your customers, so let your instincts steer you in the right direction. Watch out for customers who:

1. Purchase a large amount of merchandise without regard to size, style, color, or price.
   
2. Ask no questions on major purchases.
   
3. Try to distract or rush you during the sale.
   
4. Make purchases and leave the store, but then return to make more purchases.
   
5. Make large purchases just after the store's opening, or as the store is closing.
   
6. Refuse free delivery for large items.
   

Edited August 1, 2008 by credit_help

[thelowpriceleader]

In a department store, there are going to be repeat purchases just because of how the store is laid out and set up.

 

Furthermore, if they were suspicious of the multiple purchases made by green, they didn't need to even let green know they were suspicious. After green made two purchase,s all they needed to do was get into their register records and look up green's credit card number. They could in turn call up the processing center and say we have card #xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx here they are making multiple purchases in here today and we are suspicious. At that point, green gets a call from the bank asking to verify the purchases.

 

Most of the literature on fraud prevention says that you are encouraged to watch for it, but discouraged from actively accusing someone of anything. If you can report it without the customer being aware of what you are doing, that is encouraged. Code 10 calls after the transaction has been completed are also encouraged.

 

Has the store manager responded to this yet?

[Uncle Leo]

From http://merchants.visa.com/card/cardpresent.jsp#c10 :

 

Six warning signs of fraud at the Point-of-Sale

Certain customer behavior could point to card fraud, but it doesn't necessarily indicate criminal activity. You know your customers, so let your instincts steer you in the right direction. Watch out for customers who:

1. Purchase a large amount of merchandise without regard to size, style, color, or price.
   
2. Ask no questions on major purchases.
   
3. Try to distract or rush you during the sale.
   
4. Make purchases and leave the store, but then return to make more purchases.
   
5. Make large purchases just after the store's opening, or as the store is closing.
   
6. Refuse free delivery for large items.
   

 

#5 is simply ridiculous.

 

This still doesn't answer how the last clerk would know it was a multiple purchase, however.

[credit_help]

#5 is simply ridiculous.

Yeah, especially on a black Friday.

 

This still doesn't answer how the last clerk would know it was a multiple purchase, however.

 

Clerk noticed OP holding a bag in hand and put the new purchase in the same bag? It is probably the POS system that displayed some alert.

Edited August 1, 2008 by credit_help

[webworm98]

From http://merchants.visa.com/card/cardpresent.jsp#c10 :

 

Six warning signs of fraud at the Point-of-Sale

Certain customer behavior could point to card fraud, but it doesn't necessarily indicate criminal activity. You know your customers, so let your instincts steer you in the right direction. Watch out for customers who:

1. Purchase a large amount of merchandise without regard to size, style, color, or price.
   
2. Ask no questions on major purchases.
   
3. Try to distract or rush you during the sale.
   
4. Make purchases and leave the store, but then return to make more purchases.
   
5. Make large purchases just after the store's opening, or as the store is closing.
   
6. Refuse free delivery for large items.
   

 

 

#5 is simply ridiculous.

Yeah, especially on a black Friday.

 

This still doesn't answer how the last clerk would know it was a multiple purchase, however.

 

Clerk noticed OP holding a bag in hand and put the new purchase in the same bag? It is probably the POS system that displayed some alert.

 

No, the credit card terminal knows. I forgot an item and went back to the same store. On the receipt it said caution multiple use. However, I do not see much of those anymore but it could still show up on the merchant terminal screen.

 

 

I do this one a lot

Make purchases and leave the store, but then return to make more purchases.

[Uncle Leo]

This still doesn't answer how the last clerk would know it was a multiple purchase, however.

Clerk noticed OP holding a bag in hand and put the new purchase in the same bag? It is probably the POS system that displayed some alert.

 

Ok, ya got me on the bag part, that should have been obvious to me.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Uncle Leo

[green2408]

This still doesn't answer how the last clerk would know it was a multiple purchase, however.

Clerk noticed OP holding a bag in hand and put the new purchase in the same bag? It is probably the POS system that displayed some alert.

 

Ok, ya got me on the bag part, that should have been obvious to me.

 

I told the clerk I had other purchases because I said that she could just put the blouse in the bag I had, which she did, as I was signing the terminal. She then had the receipt in her hand and as she was handing it to me, she asked to see ID, sort of as an afterthought, it was my impression. It seems to me that if there was an alert on the system that she would have seen that when I swiped my card, and then done something at that point. I'm not sure but don't they have to press some button before the screen comes up where you sign?

[green2408]

In a department store, there are going to be repeat purchases just because of how the store is laid out and set up.

 

Furthermore, if they were suspicious of the multiple purchases made by green, they didn't need to even let green know they were suspicious. After green made two purchase,s all they needed to do was get into their register records and look up green's credit card number. They could in turn call up the processing center and say we have card #xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx here they are making multiple purchases in here today and we are suspicious. At that point, green gets a call from the bank asking to verify the purchases.

 

Most of the literature on fraud prevention says that you are encouraged to watch for it, but discouraged from actively accusing someone of anything. If you can report it without the customer being aware of what you are doing, that is encouraged. Code 10 calls after the transaction has been completed are also encouraged.

 

Has the store manager responded to this yet?

 

 

I showed the manager, the next day, one of those letters I get where it says amerchant may not refuse to complete a purchase etc., and he said he was unaware of that rule and he would check with corporate office. He said that is Penney's policy, and I pointed out that it had never happened to me before. He was very pleasant but not helpful. I also emailed Penney's corporate and have not heard anyting despite a bot email that says all emails are answered within 48 hrs.

[thelowpriceleader]

It is not policy at JC Penney at all and it is spelled out right on the screen as you sign.

 

To make the transaction process, the cashier has to total it and then hit the credit tender. After you sign, the cashier has to press enter/ok to accept your signature or cancel to clear your signature. There is also a function to get a paper slip to print for a customer who does not want to sign the screen or for when there is a signature match issue and the argument from the customer is they cannot accurately sign the screen with a signature that matches the back of their card but can sign a paper.

 

Green check your PM.

[Continental]

She then had the receipt in her hand and as she was handing it to me, she asked to see ID, sort of as an afterthought.

salamander cashier obviously made-up her own insulting and prohibited policy on the spot, and must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once.

[Continental]

Repeat purchases raise suspicion.

Doesn’t matter. Merchants cannot require ID. If they are really that suspicious, they can do a code 10 authorization call, but cannot require ID. Immediately call 1-800-VISA-911. Make sure that horribly behaving JC Penny shapes-up and never asks for ID again.

 

Never show ID for signed credit card purchases.

 

No ID required for signed credit card purchases. Merchants cannot require ID.

 

If a merchant tries to require ID, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911 to ensure they never do again.

 

VISA: 1-800-VISA-911

MasterCard: 1-800-300-3069

 

 

Also easily report merchant violations online at:

 

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

 

Check the box that says "Merchant required ID"

 

 

 

Never show ID for signed credit card purchases.

 

No ID required for signed credit card purchases.

 

Make sure your community is 100% violation-free.

[Uncle Leo]

salamander cashier obviously made-up her own insulting and prohibited policy on the spot, and must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once.

 

-

-

 

Hey, at least they gave him something to sit on. A "kinder gentler" enforcement, if you will.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Uncle Leo

[green2408]

salamander cashier obviously made-up her own insulting and prohibited policy on the spot, and must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once.

 

-

-

 

Hey, at least they gave him something to sit on. A "kinder gentler" enforcement, if you will.

 

 

LOL

[Uncle Leo]

She then had the receipt in her hand and as she was handing it to me, she asked to see ID, sort of as an afterthought.

salamander cashier obviously made-up her own insulting and prohibited policy on the spot, and must be fired/disciplined/retrained at once.

 

Why is name calling necessary?

[Continental]

Why on earth would repeat purchases raise suspicion, and more to the point why would it be a corporate policy to be suspicious of shoppers in your store who are making multiple purchases. It seems that would be what you want in a department store!!

Multiple purchases are common and normal. There is no reason to walk miles back to your car just to put your new earrings in the trunk, and then walk miles back to the store to purchase a $5 blouse etc.. And if you took public transportation to the store, even that would not be an option.