245 replies to this topic

[Continental]

here's the thing...

Visa/MC FORBIDS merchants asking for ID.

If you want to show your ID, fine...go for it...

if you want to hand your wallet to a stranger on the street, more power to you

if you want to stick a fork in an electrical outlet, I won't stop you

but the merchant IS NOT allowed to ask for ID, and they can lose their ability to accept credit cards if they do so...

NO MINIMUMS

NO MAXIMUMS

NO SURCHARGES

NO ID

[GEORGE]

BURP

Edited by GEORGE, 07 November 2008 - 12:23 PM.

[GEORGE]

YOU PROVE I'M NOT THE PERSON NAMED ON THE CREDIT CARD

[Continental]

There is a drive thru shop here that has signs all over the drive thru "we id for credit cards, no id no sale".

Completely prohibited. What is their name and address?

[gweedoh]

Thanks for the explanation. What about when the merchant does not have the key pad pin option but processes your debit card LIKE a CC and requires a signature? Rather than allowing you to use your PIN, it's not even an option, you have to sign a receipt?

I believe this is a system set up - in other words, it costs the merchant 'x' to have both debit AND CC capabilities. So, some merchants opt out for only the CC option to avoid the additional fees.

So, in this case, they are treating the transaction as a Visa/MC transaction and would be accountable to the associated merchant laws? This would require them to not ask for a photo ID to confirm sig, correct?

When you use your PIN, it's a debit transaction. When you sign, it's a credit transaction.

If there is no PIN pad, the only option is credit transaction. It may be that it costs the merchant more in equipment up front to provide a PIN pad (although it can't be more than $50-$100), but the per-transaction charges on debit are significantly less than credit transaction, if there even is a charge at all.

[gweedoh]

THERE IS NOTHING TO DEBATE ABOUT CREDIT CARD POLICY

We're all vigorously debating it so this clearly is not the case.

[Jen23514]

THERE IS NOTHING TO DEBATE ABOUT CREDIT CARD POLICY

We're all vigorously debating it so this clearly is not the case.

[GEORGE]

People here DISPUTE "ACCURATE" stuff with the BIG 3 (as in "baddies") and refuse to give any information...

But some of those same people WILL SHOW ID AT THE DROP OF A HAT

Some even put CID or SEE ID or SEE LICENSE on their credit cards instead of their signature

[spoiledtcangel]

I just read this entire thread and i just had to add

To the person who said they would get a citi card with their pic on it ................. I feel the same way my credit one card has a pic of me & my DH on it you would be shocked how many times i got asked for ID and im like ummm really look at the card and just laugh. Their like ohhh ok thats a cute card sorry didnt realize it because they were looking at the back.

And as for the costco post well you should be glad they were letting you check out with someone elses card in the first place Costco, Sams & Bjs will normally NEVER do that and some of them have where if your not a member your charged a 15% surcharge I would have gladly flashed my ID and ran.

I just moved recently but before that I lived in a pretty "ghetto" neighborhood and EVERY store downtown has signs that No ID no credit card charge. Even the Quick Check has a sign if your trying to buy more than 1 carton of cigarettes with a CC ID required.

Because as someone posted, In my old neighborhood I can get an official looking driver ID, boat ID, county ID, heck even car insurance... as long as I have the money to pay the guy I can be just like the kid in the movie and my new name will be MCLOVIN with the holograms and everything LoL

[gweedoh]

I had a lot of running around to do yesterday, so I decided to try an experiment on this topic. Here's my results.

I went to a local hardware store three times, went to Home Depot twice, grocery store once and grabbed lunch at Subway. I used my favorite credit card, my Target Visa at each location.

On my first trip to the hardware store, I noticed a card at each of the registers that said ID was required for CC purchases. The total purchase price was under $4. I handed the clerk my Visa and waited for her to ask for my ID. She did and I asked what would happen if I didn't show ID. She told me she could not accept my CC. (She had not swiped the card yet.) I told her that the Visa merchant agreement prohibits this. She sort of smiled and I said "I'm serious." By this time, there were two other people in line behind me. The cashier said "Oh, my boss has to hear this!" and called the store manager to the checkout. I could see the people behind me getting restless now. I decided to not take this any further and showed her my ID. The manager ended up coming over anyway and I told him the same thing. He basically said "yeah, ok" in that condescending "customer is always right" tone. I spent at least 5 minutes on the ordeal.

My next trip was to Home Depot. They only had the self checkout lanes open and I've never been asked for ID there and this trip was no exception.

My next trip was back to the small hardware store. Different cashier and the total was ~$14. I handed her my CC again and she again asked for my ID. I mentioned the Visa merchant agreement again and told her about the convo I had with the other cashier. She had that mildly amused expression on her face as I explained the Visa merchant agreement and said something like "huh, well our store policy is to require ID, but that is interesting..."

On to Subway. Never asked for ID and I didn't have to sign the sales slip. I've noticed this is not uncommon for most fast food chains, actually. Sometimes the local hamburger shop or taco stand will require a signature, but very rarely, if ever, have I been asked for ID.

Back to HD now. They had one of the traditional cashier counters open. Total was ~$75 and I swiped my CC on the keypad and then the girl asked to see ID. There were 2 or 3 people behind me again. I explained the Visa MA to her and she said "no ID, no sale". I showed her my ID and finished the transaction.

I went to the grocery store on my way home and was not asked for ID.

Back to the hardware store. Total was ~$23. Same cashier as before. She remembered me as said "I remember you, I'm not going to ask for ID", indicating she intended to follow the store policy otherwise.


Here's the recap...
1. I only visited 4 stores, so this is not a very scientific experiment, but I will say it seems typical of my experiences in general.
2. In each case where I was asked for ID, it was clearly a store policy. These were not renegade clerks looking out for the best interest of their employer.
3. In 2 of the 3 cases where I was asked for ID, there were customers waiting in line behind me.
4. In each of the 3 cases where I was asked for ID, my trips to these merchants were deliberate to pick up specific items. To get similar items elsewhere would have required significant extra time and gas to get there. Not to mention I had baskets/buckets with items that took time to find within the store. Going somewhere else meant that time I spent driving to the store and finding the items was also wasted.
5. I bill customers per hour and my time costs them money. It would not be fair for me to charge a customer to spend the entire day driving from one merchant to the next until I found one that would accept a CC without requiring an ID.


At the end of the day I asked myself "what's in it for me to take issue with this practice?" My conclusion?

NOTHING!

[Continental]

What is the name and address of the hardware store and the address of the Home Depot?

[gweedoh]

What is the name and address of the hardware store and the address of the Home Depot?

haha

<shaking head>

You missed the ENTIRE point of my post.

Edited by gweedoh, 11 November 2008 - 10:45 AM.

[Shane]

I just write "SEE ID" on the back of my cards. Even with that some people wont even look at my ID when I give it to them so they can see that the card belongs to me. Other people ask for my ID and I like when they do that. All they do is compare and ID with my name and picture to the name of the card.

EZ.

The Post Office is the only place that I have had a problem with this. I just use my debit card there now.


Oh yes, My ID never leaves my site. I make sure that the person at the counter compares my ID to the card and that they give my ID back before they process the transaction.

[Continental]

An unsigned card is not valid and should not be accepted.

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or picture ID.

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement. The contract MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine.

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that that issued your Visa card or call 1-800-VISA-911.

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

[gweedoh]

I just write "SEE ID" on the back of my cards.

I discourage this practice.

The cards clearly state they are not valid unless signed. If someone steals your card and makes unauthorized purchases, the CC issuers can decline to honor their protection agreements if they find out you had been using your card with no signature.

[Credit Matters]

What is the name and address of the hardware store and the address of the Home Depot?

LOL.

[MarvBear]

Continental, is being a very bad boy. I probably approved some posts that normally I would not have in my haste.

So.............., I'm moving this to the credit card policy forum.

And

if patience is overtaxed, then will consider my power tripping locking powers.

[Continental]

I can get an official looking driver ID, boat ID, county ID, heck even car insurance... as long as I have the money to pay the guy I can be just like the kid in the movie and my new name will be MCLOVIN with the holograms and everything.

Any serious in-store crook will have fake ID.

[GEORGE]

I just write "SEE ID" on the back of my cards.

I discourage this practice.

The cards clearly state they are not valid unless signed. If someone steals your card and makes unauthorized purchases, the CC issuers can decline to honor their protection agreements if they find out you had been using your card with no signature.

Shane wants to use a VOID credit card???

[Uncle Leo]

Any serious in-store crook will have fake ID.

To match every card they steal. Right.

It would be easier to spend the 30 seconds to learn to forge a new signature.

[Continental]

Point is, if a thief is anything but a total idiot, he'll have already either gotten a fake ID before he goes to use the cards he stole, or he'll have cloned the info off the mag stripe on the card he stole to a new card, WELL BEFORE you ever get to see his smiling face. For a real CC fraudster, checking his ID isn't gonna do squat.

So, the net result of your insistence on IDs is probably very unlikely to stop an actual CC thief and a lot more likely to inconvenience and P.O. your true customers. Especially if they forgot their license or something. Plus, as stated here, it is definitely against the issuer's policies, and eventually someone will probably report you.

The multibillion dollar CC companies already fully protect their customers from fraud and unauthorized use, they really don't need a checkout clerk to help them out.

[gweedoh]

Point is, if a thief is anything but a total idiot, he'll have already either gotten a fake ID before he goes to use the cards he stole, or he'll have cloned the info off the mag stripe on the card he stole to a new card, WELL BEFORE you ever get to see his smiling face. For a real CC fraudster, checking his ID isn't gonna do squat.

I'm not sure what is required to be considered a "real" CC fraudster, but for the majority of credit card fraud that takes place at brick-n-mortar stores, the person presenting the card got it by stealing it, which means they'll usually have the remaining contents of the victim's wallet/purse, which also means they'll also have a non-MacGyver matching ID. I'm pretty sure the victims of these crimes would describe their experiences as "real". That being said, brick-n-mortar CC fraud is a very small percentage of the total. Most of it takes place online where a matching ID is irrelevant, but so is a signature for that matter.

So, the net result of your insistence on IDs is probably very unlikely to stop an actual CC thief and a lot more likely to inconvenience and P.O. your true customers. Especially if they forgot their license or something. Plus, as stated here, it is definitely against the issuer's policies, and eventually someone will probably report you.

On a scale of 1-to-10, I would rate showing my ID to make a CC purchase a 2 and having to deal with post-911 security measures at the airport a 9. We all rolled over on having our privacy rights violated because we were told it makes us safer. Just as an "actual CC thief" is unlikely to be discouraged by a merchant asking for ID, "actual" terrorists aren't going to attack us using our airports anymore. Yet we all wait hours and hours at our airports clinging to the idea that we're safer for it.

By the way, how often would someone happen to have their CC, but no ID? This is a ridiculous argument.

The multibillion dollar CC companies already fully protect their customers from fraud and unauthorized use, they really don't need a checkout clerk to help them out.

I agree, however, I believe the merchants are doing this for their own protection.

[Continental]

What is the name and address of the hardware store and the address of the Home Depot?

haha

<shaking head>

You missed the ENTIRE point of my post.

You missed the ENTIRE point of this thread.

Simply report violation, VISA/MC will bring the violating merchant back into line, and you will no longer need to drive around for hours trying to find some place that will accept your credit card.

[GEORGE]

Point is, if a thief is anything but a total idiot, he'll have already either gotten a fake ID before he goes to use the cards he stole, or he'll have cloned the info off the mag stripe on the card he stole to a new card, WELL BEFORE you ever get to see his smiling face. For a real CC fraudster, checking his ID isn't gonna do squat.

I'm not sure what is required to be considered a "real" CC fraudster, but for the majority of credit card fraud that takes place at brick-n-mortar stores, the person presenting the card got it by stealing it, which means they'll usually have the remaining contents of the victim's wallet/purse, which also means they'll also have a non-MacGyver matching ID. I'm pretty sure the victims of these crimes would describe their experiences as "real". That being said, brick-n-mortar CC fraud is a very small percentage of the total. Most of it takes place online where a matching ID is irrelevant, but so is a signature for that matter.

So, the net result of your insistence on IDs is probably very unlikely to stop an actual CC thief and a lot more likely to inconvenience and P.O. your true customers. Especially if they forgot their license or something. Plus, as stated here, it is definitely against the issuer's policies, and eventually someone will probably report you.

On a scale of 1-to-10, I would rate showing my ID to make a CC purchase a 2 and having to deal with post-911 security measures at the airport a 9. We all rolled over on having our privacy rights violated because we were told it makes us safer. Just as an "actual CC thief" is unlikely to be discouraged by a merchant asking for ID, "actual" terrorists aren't going to attack us using our airports anymore. Yet we all wait hours and hours at our airports clinging to the idea that we're safer for it.

By the way, how often would someone happen to have their CC, but no ID? This is a ridiculous argument.

The multibillion dollar CC companies already fully protect their customers from fraud and unauthorized use, they really don't need a checkout clerk to help them out.

I agree, however, I believe the merchants are doing this for their own protection.

ID FREE SALE...or I don't buy anything

TSA made me cut back on flying like 75%

YOU prove the card is NOT mine

Edited by GEORGE, 12 November 2008 - 09:55 PM.

[GEORGE]

I have a license to drive a car/truck...it is not a permit to use my signed credit card

I can WALK/RIDE A BIKE to a store and not NEED a drivers license to get there

My ID is in my wallet...the credit card is not