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72 replies to this topic

#1 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:42 AM

Playing Devil's Advocate... sorta.

Two-part question:

1) Ok, we all know it's "against the rules" to ask for ID when paying by credit card. That's established. No need to rehash that part. Now, can anyone give another legitimate reason why ID should not be asked for?

2) For those who fully support the policy of not showing ID when using a signed card, would your position change if the credit card companies were to reverse their policies and allow it, or even mandate it?



#2 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:44 AM

Playing Devil's Advocate... sorta.

Two-part question:

1)  Ok, we all know it's "against the rules" to ask for ID when paying by credit card.  That's established.  No need to rehash that part.  Now, can anyone give another legitimate reason why ID should not be asked for?

2)  For those who fully support the policy of not showing ID when using a signed card, would your position change if the credit card companies were to reverse their policies and allow it, or even mandate it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HELLO WALL

#3 rixflix

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:48 AM

george is too funny. :)

#4 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:51 AM

ELIMINATE THE SIGNATURE STRIP

ID REQUIRED AT P.O.S.

CREDIT CARD LAW AND FEDERAL LAW...NO EXCEPTIONS

FACE TO FACE SALES ONLY

NO PHONE SALES
NO INTERNET SALES
NO US MAIL SALES


YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!


#5 lbjones

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:52 AM

1)  Ok, we all know it's "against the rules" to ask for ID when paying by credit card.  That's established.  No need to rehash that part.  Now, can anyone give another legitimate reason why ID should not be asked for?


If they aren't asking everyone, then why are they asking me? Am I the wrong color? Am I not good enough to shop here?

Is it possible for someone to memorize the information on my ID? Like address and DL#? I think so.

2)  For those who fully support the policy of not showing ID when using a signed card, would your position change if the credit card companies were to reverse their policies and allow it, or even mandate it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I would be more likely to use debit, if every time I wanted to use a CC I had to also display my ID.

I would also suggest there are better ways to correct the problem. If cashiers just want to see a picture of me, why not put it on the card? How about letting me provide a PIN on the keypad rather than a sig?

And last, but not least, if the sig system is so horrible, how come CC companies are making money hand over fist?

#6 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:32 AM

If they aren't asking everyone, then why are they asking me?  Am I the wrong color?  Am I not good enough to shop here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The intent of the question assumes that everyone would be asked, not just some people. But, if only some were asked, I would agree that that would be a problem.

Is it possible for someone to memorize the information on my ID?  Like address and DL#?  I think so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Absolutely it's possible. How likely is it? Not very, I think. Maybe it's assessing one risk with another. To me, a signed credit card in the hands of a thief is more dangerous than a braindead retail person memorizing pertinent information in a couple seconds.

I would be more likely to use debit, if every time I wanted to use a CC I had to also display my ID.

I would also suggest there are better ways to correct the problem.  If cashiers just want to see a picture of me, why not put it on the card?  How about letting me provide a PIN on the keypad rather than a sig?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The picture on card thing could work pretty well. I had forgotten about the PIN option, but I see that as probably the best option. I see no reason why a PIN transaction cannot still be considered a credit transaction.

And last, but not least, if the sig system is so horrible, how come CC companies are making money hand over fist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Because they're not paying for the costs of ID theft. The costs of ID theft are passed along for others to pay... merchants and us.

#7 tkang69

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:32 AM

I've always been impressed with merchants that ask for my ID. It makes me feel a little safer in a way.

Keep in mind, in a round about sort of way, I was a victim of identity theft while I was deployed a couple of years ago. Not credit related, but someone stole my checking information, and forged checks in my name.

That person did it to a lot of military families in the area, and they are sitting in jail :aggressive:

So, at any rate, I like the idea of being asked for my ID.

Now, if I wasn't used to it, I probably would have a problem with it.

#8 800SomeDay

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:34 AM

Gas stations would have to have 20 more
people to put an attendant at every pump
to check your ID before you sneek out.

#9 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:38 AM

If they aren't asking everyone, then why are they asking me?  Am I the wrong color?  Am I not good enough to shop here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The intent of the question assumes that everyone would be asked, not just some people. But, if only some were asked, I would agree that that would be a problem.

Is it possible for someone to memorize the information on my ID?  Like address and DL#?  I think so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Absolutely it's possible. How likely is it? Not very, I think. Maybe it's assessing one risk with another. To me, a signed credit card in the hands of a thief is more dangerous than a braindead retail person memorizing pertinent information in a couple seconds.

I would be more likely to use debit, if every time I wanted to use a CC I had to also display my ID.

I would also suggest there are better ways to correct the problem.  If cashiers just want to see a picture of me, why not put it on the card?  How about letting me provide a PIN on the keypad rather than a sig?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The picture on card thing could work pretty well. I had forgotten about the PIN option, but I see that as probably the best option. I see no reason why a PIN transaction cannot still be considered a credit transaction.

And last, but not least, if the sig system is so horrible, how come CC companies are making money hand over fist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Because they're not paying for the costs of ID theft. The costs of ID theft are passed along for others to pay... merchants and us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

braindead


HUHHH???


#10 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:40 AM

Gas stations would have to have 20 more
people to put an attendant at every pump
to check your ID before you sneek out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


So, because it (checking ID) is not 100% foolproof in absolutely every conceivable situation, it's not good enough? That makes no sense at all.

#11 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:42 AM

Gas stations would have to have 20 more
people to put an attendant at every pump
to check your ID before you sneek out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

4 or 5 CASHIERS INSIDE...

YOU MUST GO INSIDE WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD AND ID

THEN PUMP GAS THEN GO BACK INSIDE...WAIT YOUR TURN FOR NEXT IN LINE

AND 5 PEOPLE ARE WAITING YOUR YOUR SPOT AT THE PUMP

Edited by GEORGE, 01 July 2005 - 01:42 AM.


#12 lbjones

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:42 AM

Do you all remember those "visa check cards" commercials where they really hit upon the checking ID thing? Pay with a check, then they start asking for ID, and it takes forever? Wasn't the point of that whole ad that using your check card like a visa was more convenient because you wouldn't have to go through all that hassle?

Edited by lbjones, 01 July 2005 - 01:45 AM.


#13 lbjones

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:44 AM

So, because it (checking ID) is not 100% foolproof in absolutely every conceivable situation, it's not good enough?  That makes no sense at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's not good enough because it's not the right solution.

#14 coreytaz

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:46 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's. Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card? This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot. You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

#15 misstrish06

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:53 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's.  Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card?  This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot.  You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



What would I care? I wouldn't be held responsible for the charges. It would be a PITA, but then again, so is being carded for every nickel and dime purchase made.

Are you saying that instead of someone having access to your CC number, you'd rather they have your CC number, your address, your DOB, and/or your DL number?

I guess you're a giver.

#16 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:54 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's.  Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card?  This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot.  You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I DON'T SHOW ID FOR CHECKS AT RETAIL

I USE CREDIT FOR 100% OF PURCHASES

NO CREDIT CARD...NO PURCHASES!!!

CHECKS ARE NOT CASH!!!

#17 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:55 AM

So, because it (checking ID) is not 100% foolproof in absolutely every conceivable situation, it's not good enough?  That makes no sense at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's not good enough because it's not the right solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But, that's a different point entirely and can be argued on it's own merits.

#18 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:02 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's.  Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card?  This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot.  You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What would I care? I wouldn't be held responsible for the charges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why is it so difficult to understand that while it may not show up as a line item on one's bill, the cost always gets passed down to the lowest rung on the ladder (consumers) in the form of higher prices and/or fees? You most certainly are paying for it.

#19 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:06 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's.  Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card?  This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot.  You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What would I care? I wouldn't be held responsible for the charges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why is it so difficult to understand that while it may not show up as a line item on one's bill, the cost always gets passed down to the lowest rung on the ladder (consumers) in the form of higher prices and/or fees? You most certainly are paying for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOU HAVE A CARD THAT HAS NO FEE and YOU PIF SO NO INTEREST...

How does one pay "EXTRA"

FRAUD IS NOT CHARGEABLE...

YOU REALLY THINK THAT BANKS DON'T HAVE "FRAUD" INSURANCE???

or

THEY ARE BANNED FROM WRITING THEM OFF ON THEIR TAXES???

#20 justin28004

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:09 AM

Why do we have two threads about this now?

#21 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:11 AM

Why do we have two threads about this now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AND WHY DO YOU ASK???

#22 GEORGE

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:15 AM

Started by two DIFFERENT people...

Kinda' related...KINDA' NOT

#23 justin28004

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:20 AM

Why do we have two threads about this now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AND WHY DO YOU ASK???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Because unless I get a good answer, this whole place is getting shut down.

#24 misstrish06

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:23 AM

I actually like the picture on the card's.  Makes things much easier.

You have to show id to write a check so what's the big difference with a credit card?  This is not a invasion of your privacy, your SSN is not on your drivers license.

So when your credit card is duplicated onto a fake card and the credit card company that lost your info did not tell you becuase they're afraid or whatnot.  You're not going to complain to macy's that they did not card the guy that bought a few grand worth of shoes or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What would I care? I wouldn't be held responsible for the charges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why is it so difficult to understand that while it may not show up as a line item on one's bill, the cost always gets passed down to the lowest rung on the ladder (consumers) in the form of higher prices and/or fees? You most certainly are paying for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, we only pay fees for rewards cards that get PIF anyway.

The merchant doesn't absorb the hit IF THEY FOLLOW THE MERCHANT AGREEMENT WITH VISA/MC.

So why do I care about the Visa/MC part? They don't seem to be losing any money.

BTW, it's not "so difficult to understand," so much as it's not a compelling argument.

#25 Uncle Leo

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:25 AM

YOU HAVE A CARD THAT HAS NO FEE and YOU PIF SO NO INTEREST...

How does one pay "EXTRA"

FRAUD IS NOT CHARGEABLE...

YOU REALLY THINK THAT BANKS DON'T HAVE "FRAUD" INSURANCE???

or

THEY ARE BANNED FROM WRITING THEM OFF ON THEIR TAXES???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You should know better. Do you really believe that merchants fully absorb the cost of losses like chargebacks and theft? Get real. They pass it along in the form of higher prices. If a bank were to have fraud insurance, you don't think the rates for that insurance wouldn't reflect the probability of loss? And even if you did pay your no-fee card in full every month, do you think that banks and/or credit card companies wouldn't pass along all of their costs to the merchant, who would then adjust prices accordingly?

Business 101: Theft is part of the cost of doing business, and the cost of doing business gets passed to the comsumer.




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