72 replies to this topic

[LKH]

Why do we have two threads about this now?

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AND WHY DO YOU ASK???

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Because unless I get a good answer, this whole place is getting shut down.

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Care to explain this threat Justin?

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Some guy ran by my computer as I was preparing to write a thoughtful, meaningful post and put that in and hit "Add Reply." Then, with lightning fast fingers, he put a virus on my computer that locked it up so I couldn't get back on to edit it before the edit button timed out. Don't worry, I am OKAY. Man this neighborhood is getting bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK. I think maybe a timeout will cause you to give a REAL explanation to get your posting rights back? Do I need to do that to protect this site or are you going to explain it?

[cotterpin]

ya can't mess with the imaginary enigma also known as Zeus 

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Good thing you fixed that. lol
Tee had it right.

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Cotter = and Zeus

Some guy ran by my computer as I was preparing to write a thoughtful, meaningful post and put that in and hit "Add Reply." Then, with lightning fast fingers, he put a virus on my computer that locked it up so I couldn't get back on to edit it before the edit button timed out. Don't worry, I am OKAY. Man this neighborhood is getting bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't know we had a fiction writing contest going on

[LKH]

Since you don't think you need to respond to me Justin, I'll respond to you. I don't take threats to shut down this site lightly and then when asked to explain, I certainly don't appreciate your smartass remarks. So, your warning level was just increased to strike to for the threat. I'm now going to increase it to strike 3 for the smartass remark and then you'll HAVE to explain your BS to get your posting rights back.

[TrevorHere]

Why do we have two threads about this now?

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AND WHY DO YOU ASK???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because unless I get a good answer, this whole place is getting shut down.

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Care to explain this threat Justin?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some guy ran by my computer as I was preparing to write a thoughtful, meaningful post and put that in and hit "Add Reply." Then, with lightning fast fingers, he put a virus on my computer that locked it up so I couldn't get back on to edit it before the edit button timed out. Don't worry, I am OKAY. Man this neighborhood is getting bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exhibit A example of what happens when parents allow the internet to babysit their children.

[Elotemuygrande]

NO,
I pretty much don't show ID even on the very rare occasions that I buy liquor. If a place asks, I pretty much won't shop there, I'm that annoyed. I won't show reciepts going out the door either.

[Elotemuygrande]

If they aren't asking everyone, then why are they asking me?  Am I the wrong color?  Am I not good enough to shop here?

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The intent of the question assumes that everyone would be asked, not just some people. But, if only some were asked, I would agree that that would be a problem.

Is it possible for someone to memorize the information on my ID?  Like address and DL#?  I think so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely it's possible. How likely is it? Not very, I think. Maybe it's assessing one risk with another. To me, a signed credit card in the hands of a thief is more dangerous than a braindead retail person memorizing pertinent information in a couple seconds.

I would be more likely to use debit, if every time I wanted to use a CC I had to also display my ID.

I would also suggest there are better ways to correct the problem.  If cashiers just want to see a picture of me, why not put it on the card?  How about letting me provide a PIN on the keypad rather than a sig?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The picture on card thing could work pretty well. I had forgotten about the PIN option, but I see that as probably the best option. I see no reason why a PIN transaction cannot still be considered a credit transaction.

And last, but not least, if the sig system is so horrible, how come CC companies are making money hand over fist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because they're not paying for the costs of ID theft. The costs of ID theft are passed along for others to pay... merchants and us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

braindead


HUHHH???

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Highly off topic, sorry.

Depends on where you shop

There are PLENTY of braindead people in retail. Pretty faces selling stuff makes as much as competant people selling stuff in many industries(even some technical) and uneducated pretty faces are easy to get. Go to a cell phone store some time and ask the hotties that work there a question about their service and watch them get the supervisor.

And basic clerks don't get payed enough to do an above the call of duty job either. I sympathise because I just came from college making 5.15 for a while.

I've met some extremely sharp people that work retail sales, but I understand the reason for the stereotype.

Edited by Elotemuygrande, 01 July 2005 - 10:33 AM.

[rwgames]

I went to a nice restaurant, went in, to go order under $10, not asked for ID.

Went in two days later, placed the same order and was asked for ID, then they got my order wrong! Why ask one time and not the other? Did I look more like a fraudster the second time?

Also went and bought clothes from a nice department store around $100, self swipe terminal that has clearly stated in red:

"Please keep your card out for signature verification".

I kept the card out, and the the nice older lady sales clerk asked for ID and I said "I don't have one on me, sorry." She said: "I need something to verify your signature", and I said "Like the back of my card?"

She said any else besides the back of my card would be acceptable! I still said no. They let me out with the purchase, but she said management normally requires an ID to use the credit card.

The funny thing was that she never even look at the cc receipt or the back of my card.

[Uncle Leo]

If the credit card companies mandated the checking of IDs before completing a CC transaction, I would reluctantly comply. You agree to the terms of the card when you accept the card. But as of now, it's not required and I won't show ID as a condition of sale.

But there are many things to consider before you assume showing ID makes for a safer world.

Consider this. Showing ID can actually facilitate ID theft and credit card fraud. Most credit card fraud is committed by people who only have your card information, and it's mostly done online. Forcing people to show ID opens up the greater possibility of theft of their personal information, resulting in full blown ID theft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, possible.

One of the easiest ways to steal card information is through the use of card "skimmers." With many states (and eventually all of them) turning to the use of digital drivers licenses, it's entirely feasible that skimmers can be configured to read the information encoded on those licenses, opening the door to ID theft. Or the information can simply be copied. The point is, the more times you show people your personal information, the more likely it will pass by someone who has less than honorable intentions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with your last point here, but as far as the skimmer goes, I've never given up possession of my id when asked to show it. It stays in my wallet in my hand. Even if I were at a restaurant, I show it to the wait-person at the table and it never leaves my hand, even if the credit card does.

That touches on another slightly unrelated issue that I am increasingly becomming concerned with, and that's letting someone take your card then come back with it several minutes later. Especially with the existence with skimmers, I don't like that at all, and am thinking I need to start paying in person.

Being forced to show ID will not stop fraud. Anyone engaged in the business of fraud or ID theft will have no problem producing easy to make fake IDs to match whatever infomation they need.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that there's some "magic bullet" that would literally stop fraud.

[Uncle Leo]

You're naive if you believe the elimination of fraud will result in those savings being passed down to you. It's part of the cost of doing business, and if eliminated, would simply result in higher profits for the companies involved, not lower pricing to you.

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Prices would not necessarily go back down, but they could be prevented from going up as fast as time goes by.

[Uncle Leo]

It sounds like MC/Visa wants it both ways. No ID unless fraud is suspected. Then Charges back because you did not ID and it was fraud. Maybe they should send out a crystal ball or at least a Magic 8 Ball with there merchant account kits. Then you can ask the 8 ball if you need to check ID for this transaction.


BTW I don't care what they SAY their policy is. I do not believe they will cancel a merchent account for asking for ID. Not gonna happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then all the merchant would have to start doing is to say they suspect fraud on each transaction. Does seem like kind of a vague policy. Either have a policy to check the id or not but don't bog it down with a bunch of vague requirements.

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Seems that VISA is contributing to the problem by being so vague and wishy-washy about it. "If fraud is suspected" is a pretty broad term. Well, since ID theft is becoming so prevalent, couldn't the merchant say that everyone is suspect?

[crazyralph]

NO,
I pretty much don't show ID even on the very rare occasions that I buy liquor. If a place asks, I pretty much won't shop there, I'm that annoyed. I won't show reciepts going out the door either.

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Aren't you required to show ID to purchase liquor no matter how you're paying?

[brainlessareus]

When did ID Cards become mandatory?
When was a law passed that forces me to carry picture ID?
Maybe I just don’t have an ID or don’t want to carry around my passport when I don’t fly?

When I am getting asked for ID when trying to pay I say, sorry don’t have any. You are required to check the signature on the back of the card. If the bank wants more info, you would see a “call in”.

Fun is, that I have a picture on 2 of my Visa cards but I even get asked for “ID” when I am using them.

[terraweb]

Go to a cell phone store some time and ask the hotties that work there a question about their service and watch them get the supervisor.

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Wow. That's the industry I'm in, and a) my company spends significant amounts of time and money training retail staff, and I'm pretty sure that no "hotties" work here, anyway. So I guess you weren't talking about us.

To make this somewhat on-topic, we don't ask for ID when people pay with credit cards, and that policy is fine with me.

[hunter29180]

When did ID Cards become mandatory?

SINCE 1932 ISH

When was a law passed that forces me to carry picture ID?

most states have a VAGRANCY law that requires any person over the age of 18 to carry identification on their person. Although these laws are not enforced in most areas,but with the advent of 9/11 it seems they may be resurrected!

Maybe I just don’t have an ID or don’t want to carry around my passport when I don’t fly?

When I am getting asked for ID when trying to pay I say, sorry don’t have any. You are required to check the signature on the back of the card. If the bank wants more info, you would see a “call in”.

Fun is, that I have a picture on 2 of my Visa cards but I even get asked for “ID” when I am using them.

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[Elotemuygrande]

NO,
I pretty much don't show ID even on the very rare occasions that I buy liquor. If a place asks, I pretty much won't shop there, I'm that annoyed. I won't show reciepts going out the door either.

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Aren't you required to show ID to purchase liquor no matter how you're paying?

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I think so in most every state...if you look like you're below a certain age or something. I'm 21, I don't care, and noone ever asks me but they do all my friends. WAY off topic, but I think underage people will always get it easily regardless of government policy and they should either ban it or not worry about it and let it be up to kids' parents to sort out. People that abuse alcohol are generally pathetic people I don't worry about anyways...with only one exception and she's an exception in my mind in general. Although I'm conservative on my own, government policy that mostly protects me from me bothers me.

[Elotemuygrande]

Go to a cell phone store some time and ask the hotties that work there a question about their service and watch them get the supervisor.

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Wow. That's the industry I'm in, and a) my company spends significant amounts of time and money training retail staff, and I'm pretty sure that no "hotties" work here, anyway. So I guess you weren't talking about us.

To make this somewhat on-topic, we don't ask for ID when people pay with credit cards, and that policy is fine with me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's my experience with several Cingular stores which could certainly differ by area. Sorry if it makes me sound sexist, but I think it's really their company policy that makes women look bad. Hire a pretty face and don't train her or expect her to be competant.

[GEORGE]

It sounds like MC/Visa wants it both ways. No ID unless fraud is suspected. Then Charges back because you did not ID and it was fraud. Maybe they should send out a crystal ball or at least a Magic 8 Ball with there merchant account kits. Then you can ask the 8 ball if you need to check ID for this transaction.


BTW I don't care what they SAY their policy is. I do not believe they will cancel a merchent account for asking for ID. Not gonna happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then all the merchant would have to start doing is to say they suspect fraud on each transaction. Does seem like kind of a vague policy. Either have a policy to check the id or not but don't bog it down with a bunch of vague requirements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems that VISA is contributing to the problem by being so vague and wishy-washy about it. "If fraud is suspected" is a pretty broad term. Well, since ID theft is becoming so prevalent, couldn't the merchant say that everyone is suspect?

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THAT MANAGEMENT DORK FROM WAL*MART WITH THE BADGE THAT MATCHED THE NAME ON THE CREDIT CARD IS A SUSPECT

[GEORGE]

Go to a cell phone store some time and ask the hotties that work there a question about their service and watch them get the supervisor.

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Wow. That's the industry I'm in, and a) my company spends significant amounts of time and money training retail staff, and I'm pretty sure that no "hotties" work here, anyway. So I guess you weren't talking about us.

To make this somewhat on-topic, we don't ask for ID when people pay with credit cards, and that policy is fine with me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's my experience with several Cingular stores which could certainly differ by area. Sorry if it makes me sound sexist, but I think it's really their company policy that makes women look bad. Hire a pretty face and don't train her or expect her to be competant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have had a few REAL PRETTY FACES...

MINI SKIRTS...

TOP HEAVY...(AND SHOWING)

DIDN'T LAST TOO LONG...

(VOICESTREAM/T-MOBILE)

Edited by GEORGE, 01 July 2005 - 06:00 PM.

[GEORGE]

NO,
I pretty much don't show ID even on the very rare occasions that I buy liquor. If a place asks, I pretty much won't shop there, I'm that annoyed. I won't show reciepts going out the door either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aren't you required to show ID to purchase liquor no matter how you're paying?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ID IS REQUIRED FOR BOOZE PURCHASES JUST LIKE CANCER STICKS

[GEORGE]

NO,
I pretty much don't show ID even on the very rare occasions that I buy liquor. If a place asks, I pretty much won't shop there, I'm that annoyed. I won't show reciepts going out the door either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I GUESS YOU DON'T SHOP AT SAMS THEN...

I don't shop there because I WON'T pay $35.00 to get in the door...

WAL*MART
TARGET
K-MART
THE MALL
THE GROCERY STORES

NONE OF THOSE HAVE A FEE TO GET IN THE DOOR!!!

Edited by GEORGE, 01 July 2005 - 06:08 PM.

[BBQ123]

1) We want credit cards to be easier to use then cash or check. If ID has to be looked at, then it slows it down, and makes things more complicated. How about people with debit cards / credit cards who don't have their ID on them or teens who have them but no driver's license because they aren't 16/17 yet?

The idea is to make credit cards easier. The best way is to have those PIN terminals where you swipe it yourself, hit credit, and sign. (or with debit enter pin#)

That's why MC/AmEx are making the swipe-free cards, where at like CVS/McDonalds/movie theater you tap it to the reader and it is done... no signing required either.

Also - if you card is stolen/lost and someone uses it there is ZERO LIABILITY, so you need not worry too much anyway.

2) I would be against the companies changing policy to allow ID. This leads to slowness and could lead to profiling and stuff. Also, ID theft is easier if they have your CC#, name, address, and DL number (and mabye SSN).... with just a CC# and name they can use the card, but real ID theft is harder.

[hlburi]

WAL*MART
TARGET
K-MART
THE MALL
THE GROCERY STORES

NONE OF THOSE HAVE A FEE TO GET IN THE DOOR!!![/b]

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True...and you don't have to buy 50 rolls of toilet paper at once either...

[BBQ123]

It sounds like MC/Visa wants it both ways. No ID unless fraud is suspected. Then Charges back because you did not ID and it was fraud. Maybe they should send out a crystal ball or at least a Magic 8 Ball with there merchant account kits. Then you can ask the 8 ball if you need to check ID for this transaction.


BTW I don't care what they SAY their policy is. I do not believe they will cancel a merchent account for asking for ID. Not gonna happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then all the merchant would have to start doing is to say they suspect fraud on each transaction. Does seem like kind of a vague policy. Either have a policy to check the id or not but don't bog it down with a bunch of vague requirements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems that VISA is contributing to the problem by being so vague and wishy-washy about it. "If fraud is suspected" is a pretty broad term. Well, since ID theft is becoming so prevalent, couldn't the merchant say that everyone is suspect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They will not cancel an account the 1st time...

They can give a FINE to the merchant... possibly a LARGE FINE.

Repeat offenders could be canceled.

Note -- if your card WAS signed, but it wore off so that the signature is not visible, you need to RESIGN the card... that does not count as being signed.