Firemen ignore burning house over unpaid fee

[JetTeach]

echo, put the remote down, turn off the Horror channel and go to sleep. Seriously.

 

The situation you painted is no different than any other that's been posted here. If there is a public service that is available to you for a fee, and you choose not to pay the fee, don't get upset when the service providers don't help you out.

 

The firefighters WERE there at the guys property to PROTECT THE HOMES THAT PAID THE FEE.

 

Frankly, I'm growing extremely tired of whiners who think that they should get something for nothing or that the rules don't apply to them. I don't feel a bit sorry for this guy. I do however, feel sorry for the pets inside that died.

 

This. More than anything else.

[orangecrush]

 

Chances are, you do. Sales tax. People always complain about the "big mean city" until they need something. Where do you shop? Where is your doctor located? Like I said, dealing with allll this wonderful backwoods BS with flood control around here.

 

 

Do you understand the difference between income taxes and sales taxes?

[orangecrush]

Townships generally have the authority to levy property taxes. You don't have to live in a city.

Does this guy have a $zero property tax bill? I doubt it.

 

 

If a county does not set aside property taxes for a certain service, then the cities can tax to get the needed service for their city.

 

He may be paying property taxes, but that does not mean any of those taxes went towards a fire department or other needed services.

[Labyrinthine]

http://troy.troytn.com/Obion%20County%20Fire%20Department%20Presentation%20Presented%20to%20the%20County%20Commission.pdf

 

A $0.13 increase in property taxes could have negated this whole thing.

 

Example # 3 ~ Increase in property taxes or enact "fire tax"

This scenario would add an amount to the county property tax

Records indicate that every .01 cent increase nets approx $42,000 in

revenue

 

.13 cent increase would equal-------> $546,000.00

 

This county must be full of efftards.

 

No, it's the efftard who thinks that the CITY can leverage a property tax on people WHO DO NOT LIVE IN THE CITY.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay property tax to a city I didn't live in.

 

This. Seriously.

 

I would not pay any sort of taxes to a city I do not live in. Why would I? But then again, I also would not expect their emergency services to assist me if I were not in their city...since, you know, I am not paying for them...

 

This is oddly reminiscent to my current state deciding they think I owe them taxes on money earned before I moved here...while I was living and working in another state.

 

Chances are, you do. Sales tax. People always complain about the "big mean city" until they need something. Where do you shop? Where is your doctor located? Like I said, dealing with allll this wonderful backwoods BS with flood control around here.

 

If I am paying sales tax, it is usually going to the state. On the rare chance it happens to be a local tax, I am fine paying it since I am using their services (driving on their roads, etc) while shopping. I would also expect their emergency services to assist me while in their city. My house in the county, however, is not using their services, therefore I am not paying a property tax to them. Ever. If I want their emergency services, I will pay a fee, if that is an option.

 

echo, put the remote down, turn off the Horror channel and go to sleep. Seriously.

 

The situation you painted is no different than any other that's been posted here. If there is a public service that is available to you for a fee, and you choose not to pay the fee, don't get upset when the service providers don't help you out.

 

The firefighters WERE there at the guys property to PROTECT THE HOMES THAT PAID THE FEE.

 

Frankly, I'm growing extremely tired of whiners who think that they should get something for nothing or that the rules don't apply to them. I don't feel a bit sorry for this guy. I do however, feel sorry for the pets inside that died.

 

A pet died?

 

Dang...that makes me even more angry these asshats didn't pay their fee. An innocent animal died because of this crap.

 

I know...I have some odd priorities but animals are a soft spot for me

[orangecrush]

 

 

A pet died?

 

Dang...that makes me even more angry these asshats didn't pay their fee. An innocent animal died because of this crap.

 

I know...I have some odd priorities but animals are a soft spot for me

 

I read somewhere that it took two hours for the fire to reach the home. If that is the case, those salamanders could have gotten their pets out.

[Pam]

Townships generally have the authority to levy property taxes. You don't have to live in a city.

Does this guy have a $zero property tax bill? I doubt it.

 

Yeah I live in a township and pay property taxes to them.

 

This guy, from what I can tell, also doesn't live in a township. His property taxes are likely to the COUNTY - and the county doesn't have fire service.

 

So he's not getting what he's not paying for

[Pam]

 

If I am paying sales tax, it is usually going to the state. On the rare chance it happens to be a local tax, I am fine paying it since I am using their services (driving on their roads, etc) while shopping. I would also expect their emergency services to assist me while in their city. My house in the county, however, is not using their services, therefore I am not paying a property tax to them. Ever. If I want their emergency services, I will pay a fee, if that is an option.

 

 

 

It hurts. A lot. But I totally agree with this.

[hinklesc]

I agree with the fire department. Well all now taxes/fees suck, but hey that is life.

 

I also feel their insurance should not pay out either for losses. It is not the insurance companies fault that they did not pay fee.

 

I hope this family reflects on this and wonders if they had been better off paying that big $75, like everyone else.

 

I doubt my house will burn down, but I will definitely make sure that taxes AND homeowner's insurance are paid each year.

[zx10 guy]

You know. You should get a bit more of a clue about this subject before speaking. Have you ever been on a scene of a fire and know what goes on with the various fire fighters, incident commanders, and battalion chiefs? The owners/residents were out of the house when the crews arrived. If there was someone trapped in there, they would have told the responding crews. There is no need to go in to a burning structure if there is no need for it. They did what they were supposed to do which is to keep safe other property in the area which opted to be covered by their services.

 

You should take the time to go on a ride along with your local fire/EMS station. Because maybe then, you'll get a clue about this and not continue to make yourself more ignorant about this than you are now. Everyone pays into the fire/EMS system to get some sort of service. Nothing is for free, even from a volunteer station. Do you think, the diesel fuel used to run the rigs just happen to come from the free diesel fairy? And just be glad if you are fortunate enough to be in an area where EMS service isn't run by a for profit commercial outfit. I've been in areas where this is the norm and trust me they will come after you to be paid.

 

Meh, i had meant to wash my hands of this.. public safety service version of a mafia protection extortion racket.. (Yeah, you guys see what happened to them? didnt pay huh... so... yous gonna pay?) But... I watched the young turks today, and my night cant get any worse, so here goes...

 

Let me paint you a picture... in the theme of Halloween...

 

It is late evening..cold...quiet... out in rural Tennessee..its cloudy tonight, no moon or stars tonight....you are settleing in, getting ready for bed... When there is a loud crash......probably the cat..but you find your mind lingering on that news story about the grizzly murders a country over...surely you dont have to worry about that...still...better go...wait...the back door...the back door is open... but you... locked...the glass is broken... you turn to reach for the phone.

 

Then you see him... a man..about 6 foot, maybe 220 pounds...hes dressed in overalls..muddy, has an unkept look at him... you puzzle for a moment as your heart races, then you see it, the axe, stained brown with dried blood around the head...you scream!, you run, shrieking away from him, hes chasing you.. heavy footsteps, not fast, but fast enough, he is enjoying the chase... you slam the door to your bedroom, push something, anything in-front of it, your wheeze for breath, you remember, you grab your phone...911! 911 911 911! Help! you scream into the receiver! without thinking...

 

"Ma'am i need you to calm down" comes the operator "what is the nature of your emergency?" the voice says "Man..man broke into my house...he has an axe!" *THUNK!* the blade splinters the wood of your door, but it holds... "Hes trying to get in! im in my bedroom! hes trying to get in! hes going to kill me!" the voice speaks again "ma'am, i need your address" you realize you havent provided it..you yell it into the phone..and the voice retorts "a moment please ma'am while i look up your profile.." your.. your...pr.. "my what?! please! send help! hes!" *Thunk* the blade sinks through the door, enough to see light from the other side.. "Ma'am?" the voice comes from the phone "Yes? are you sending help?" your heart flutters "no, im sorry ma'am, you failed to pay your annual emergency assistance bill, im afraid you are on your own.." this cant be happening, surely this is a sick joke! "NO!" you scream "Help me! oh god help me!" but the voice only says "im sorry ma'am, you cant monopolize any more of my time, there are paying callers i need to attend to.." and then click... "hello?...HELLO?!" but nothing......

 

This is the world of privatized social services, fugging wonderful aint it? and dont bs me that its different, there could of been someone in that house as it was burning, and the fire fighters got there before the house its self was even on fire..it could of whipped up into a massive wildfire that swallowed hundreds of square miles, destroying hundreds, thousands of homes.. they just stood around gawking, then took off like a bat out of hell as soon as the news got there... Stake these "heroes" down and leave them for the freaking crows to eat their eyeballs...and what ever other balls they might find laying around while they are at it...

 

This rant brought to you by the letter "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

 

Also. If you can read my rantwriting, you win a prize..

 

And now. I wash my hands of it.

Edited October 6, 2010 by zx10 guy

[Snork Maiden]

..this is what happens when Tigz doesn't come get her boy..

 

Echo, I bet next time the chick in your story will pay the fee, huh?

[BlackWater]

Meh, i had meant to wash my hands of this.. public safety service version of a mafia protection extortion racket.. (Yeah, you guys see what happened to them? didnt pay huh... so... yous gonna pay?) But... I watched the young turks today, and my night cant get any worse, so here goes...

 

Let me paint you a picture... in the theme of Halloween...

 

It is late evening..cold...quiet... out in rural Tennessee..its cloudy tonight, no moon or stars tonight....you are settleing in, getting ready for bed... When there is a loud crash......probably the cat..but you find your mind lingering on that news story about the grizzly murders a country over...surely you dont have to worry about that...still...better go...wait...the back door...the back door is open... but you... locked...the glass is broken... you turn to reach for the phone.

 

Then you see him... a man..about 6 foot, maybe 220 pounds...hes dressed in overalls..muddy, has an unkept look at him... you puzzle for a moment as your heart races, then you see it, the axe, stained brown with dried blood around the head...you scream!, you run, shrieking away from him, hes chasing you.. heavy footsteps, not fast, but fast enough, he is enjoying the chase... you slam the door to your bedroom, push something, anything in-front of it, your wheeze for breath, you remember, you grab your phone...911! 911 911 911! Help! you scream into the receiver! without thinking...

 

"Ma'am i need you to calm down" comes the operator "what is the nature of your emergency?" the voice says "Man..man broke into my house...he has an axe!" *THUNK!* the blade splinters the wood of your door, but it holds... "Hes trying to get in! im in my bedroom! hes trying to get in! hes going to kill me!" the voice speaks again "ma'am, i need your address" you realize you havent provided it..you yell it into the phone..and the voice retorts "a moment please ma'am while i look up your profile.." your.. your...pr.. "my what?! please! send help! hes!" *Thunk* the blade sinks through the door, enough to see light from the other side.. "Ma'am?" the voice comes from the phone "Yes? are you sending help?" your heart flutters "no, im sorry ma'am, you failed to pay your annual emergency assistance bill, im afraid you are on your own.." this cant be happening, surely this is a sick joke! "NO!" you scream "Help me! oh god help me!" but the voice only says "im sorry ma'am, you cant monopolize any more of my time, there are paying callers i need to attend to.." and then click... "hello?...HELLO?!" but nothing......

 

This is the world of privatized social services, fugging wonderful aint it? and dont bs me that its different, there could of been someone in that house as it was burning, and the fire fighters got there before the house its self was even on fire..it could of whipped up into a massive wildfire that swallowed hundreds of square miles, destroying hundreds, thousands of homes.. they just stood around gawking, then took off like a bat out of hell as soon as the news got there... Stake these "heroes" down and leave them for the freaking crows to eat their eyeballs...and what ever other balls they might find laying around while they are at it...

 

This rant brought to you by the letter "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

 

Also. If you can read my rantwriting, you win a prize..

 

And now. I wash my hands of it.

 

Well I can tell you what would happen around here if that happened. He would make it through the door jam and then get two to the chest with a shotgun or pistol and thats where he would be laying when the law showed up.

 

As for the FD, I agree with them. Having been in the fire service they have a chain of command to follow. I can only assume that they are paid by the city. So the city says you don't do this if this person hasn't paid the fee's. The Chief tells his chain of command, and it filters down.

 

And just to clear some things up, if there had been a living human in trouble they would have resuced the person, but I know of no firefighter who's going to go into a fully involved structure fire to save a pet. Its not worth risking a life of a firefighter just to rescue some cat or dog or whatever.

 

It said the residence was a mobile home, anyone know how long it takes for a single wide 14 x 70 to be fully involved from igition? About 7 minutes, not alot of time considering.

[orangecrush]

You know. You should get a bit more of a clue about this subject before speaking. Have you ever been on a scene of a fire and know what goes on with the various fire fighters, incident commanders, and battalion chiefs? The owners/residents were out of the house when the crews arrived. If there was someone trapped in there, they would have told the responding crews. There is no need to go in to a burning structure if there is no need for it. They did what they were supposed to do which is to keep safe other property in the area which opted to be covered by their services.

 

You should take the time to go on a ride along with your local fire/EMS station. Because maybe then, you'll get a clue about this and not continue to make yourself more ignorant about this than you are now. Everyone pays into the fire/EMS system to get some sort of service. Nothing is for free, even from a volunteer station. Do you think, the diesel fuel used to run the rigs just happen to come from the free diesel fairy? And just be glad if you are fortunate enough to be in an area where EMS service isn't run by a for profit commercial outfit. I've been in areas where this is the norm and trust me they will come after you to be paid.

 

 

 

I am gonna marry you. I thought I was the only one who sees the Free Diesel Fuel Fairy.

[Tigz]

I just wonder, if the wind were going the other way how the Fire Department would explained how they sat by and let a Forest Fire get started. His farm is surrounded by several forested areas.

 

I have also read several places now that the IAFF is considering revoking this fire department's membership for ethics and going against its code of conduct.

Personally, I doubt it will happen, the IAFF want their membership fees. But just the fact that the organization is looking into it shows the severity of their breach to the code of conduct.

[Snork Maiden]

I just wonder, if the wind were going the other way how the Fire Department would explained how they sat by and let a Forest Fire get started. His farm is surrounded by several forested areas.

 

I have also read several places now that the IAFF is considering revoking this fire department's membership for ethics and going against its code of conduct.

Personally, I doubt it will happen, the IAFF want their membership fees. But just the fact that the organization is looking into it shows the severity of their breach to the code of conduct.

 

The homeowner said in an interview he is surrounded by harvested corn fields, and that the firefighters had the fire put out in the fields around him.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

[zx10 guy]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

 

I hope you're someone to live by your words. I assume you give away what ever you do as a living for free for those in need.

 

I find it funny those that are the most vocal about the "evil" fire fighters seem to ignore that these guys were under orders NOT to. It's easy to play arm chair quarterback in the comfort of your home when you're not standing in front of a fully involved structure and have the potential of putting your well being at risk. Not to mention the possible hassles that may come out of it later if someone who disobeys orders gets hurt and can no longer work. Are you willing to man up and pay for this fire fighter's medical expenses and lost wages?

[zx10 guy]

You know. You should get a bit more of a clue about this subject before speaking. Have you ever been on a scene of a fire and know what goes on with the various fire fighters, incident commanders, and battalion chiefs? The owners/residents were out of the house when the crews arrived. If there was someone trapped in there, they would have told the responding crews. There is no need to go in to a burning structure if there is no need for it. They did what they were supposed to do which is to keep safe other property in the area which opted to be covered by their services.

 

You should take the time to go on a ride along with your local fire/EMS station. Because maybe then, you'll get a clue about this and not continue to make yourself more ignorant about this than you are now. Everyone pays into the fire/EMS system to get some sort of service. Nothing is for free, even from a volunteer station. Do you think, the diesel fuel used to run the rigs just happen to come from the free diesel fairy? And just be glad if you are fortunate enough to be in an area where EMS service isn't run by a for profit commercial outfit. I've been in areas where this is the norm and trust me they will come after you to be paid.

 

 

 

I am gonna marry you. I thought I was the only one who sees the Free Diesel Fuel Fairy.

 

[giraffy]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

But they did their jobs, exactly the way they're instructed to do it.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

But they did their jobs, exactly the way they're instructed to do it.

 

Because there are no corrupt and morally wrong supervisors anywhere. Their job is to fight fires. That's their job. It's pretty sad when the dollar gets in the way of one of the most basic service jobs out there. I was in a car fire a while back. FD came out and extinguished it. A FD to a town that I don't live in, don't shop in, don't spend money in...and they still came and did it, because that's their job. Pretty sad and pathetic when their priorities are so effed up that they have to check a list before they go out on a call.

[Pam]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

But they did their jobs, exactly the way they're instructed to do it.

 

Because there are no corrupt and morally wrong supervisors anywhere. Their job is to fight fires. That's their job. It's pretty sad when the dollar gets in the way of one of the most basic service jobs out there. I was in a car fire a while back. FD came out and extinguished it. A FD to a town that I don't live in, don't shop in, don't spend money in...and they still came and did it, because that's their job. Pretty sad and pathetic when their priorities are so effed up that they have to check a list before they go out on a call.

 

But you were within their service area, yes?

 

This guy's house WAS NOT within that fire department's service area. How do you keep missing that fact?

[giraffy]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

But they did their jobs, exactly the way they're instructed to do it.

 

Because there are no corrupt and morally wrong supervisors anywhere. Their job is to fight fires. That's their job. It's pretty sad when the dollar gets in the way of one of the most basic service jobs out there. I was in a car fire a while back. FD came out and extinguished it. A FD to a town that I don't live in, don't shop in, don't spend money in...and they still came and did it, because that's their job. Pretty sad and pathetic when their priorities are so effed up that they have to check a list before they go out on a call.

Um. They came and did that because you were in the area they were responsible for. I'm not really sure what you think you're arguing.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

What's the address of this guy's home? Is it 12345 X Street, South Fulton, TN XX345? 'Cause, to me, if the home has the town's address...that would be in it's service district. I fully understand the situation, I'm just amazed at how, in the year 2010, it's that backwoods. Also pretty amazed at the "that's not my job" mentality.

[Snork Maiden]

Well, whatever happened, happened.

 

What happened was dude chose not pay for a service. Didn't pay for it three years ago, either, expecting them to cover his flowers. Why is it that you don't grasp this. He KNEW that they let 4 other houses burn because of non payment.

 

He didn't value his home, with his cats and dogs, enough to spend $75 dollars. But you want people's lives/jobs risked to save it? You don't get to turn down a service that helps you and mouse and moan about how they wronged you after you turned them down. Especially not if you're burning stuff in your backyard, if you've had a previous fire, you have dogs and cats you might not be able to get out out in time, etc.

 

When you do something like that, you have to be OK with the consequences. And it's OK if you wanna burn stuff in your backyard and sit in your trailer in BFE with a giant sense of entitlement, thinking the world owes it to you to come by and save you, but you should probably be prepared in case it isn't and doesn't.

[zx10 guy]

Well, whatever happened, happened. And it strengthened my hatred for small, rural areas, and people. Mostly people. A FD who lets a home burn over $75...well I hope they all burn, too. Harsh words but...suck it up and do your job. Hopefully the IAFF will pull their membership so they can form a county FD that's able to get their fees paid by a tax and this won't happen again.

But they did their jobs, exactly the way they're instructed to do it.

 

Because there are no corrupt and morally wrong supervisors anywhere. Their job is to fight fires. That's their job. It's pretty sad when the dollar gets in the way of one of the most basic service jobs out there. I was in a car fire a while back. FD came out and extinguished it. A FD to a town that I don't live in, don't shop in, don't spend money in...and they still came and did it, because that's their job. Pretty sad and pathetic when their priorities are so effed up that they have to check a list before they go out on a call.

 

But you were within their service area, yes?

 

This guy's house WAS NOT within that fire department's service area. How do you keep missing that fact?

 

That is exactly right. And to further add to this for those that have no clue, when a unit responds out of their service area into another local government's jurisdiction this is called a mutual aid call. This is set up and pre-arranged by the two local governments. Mutual aid calls happen when the neighboring jurisdiction doesn't have any units to respond to calls. This happens a lot with many of the Montgomery County, MD units and the District of Columbia. The Mutual Aid calls are dispatched by the requesting local government. Since this call was done by people who had paid for the extension of the service, there was no local government of the rural residents involved.

[zx10 guy]

What's the address of this guy's home? Is it 12345 X Street, South Fulton, TN XX345? 'Cause, to me, if the home has the town's address...that would be in it's service district. I fully understand the situation, I'm just amazed at how, in the year 2010, it's that backwoods. Also pretty amazed at the "that's not my job" mentality.

 

And you still have no clue what you're talking about. I can tell you in one densely populated area near Metro DC that because you have a town's address doesn't mean you will get serviced by X fire station. Depending on how the first due areas are drawn will determine who responds to what calls first. I can also tell you that even though I have a certain city as my address, I am not covered by that city's fire and police service. I am under the county's.