Credit and debit card transaction fees at my local store

[green2408]

Hey Frank

I can't cut and paste all that stuff - I really don't know how- but I want to take issue with the idea that people who use credit cards have some kind of ethical obligation to assure that every discrete transaction is profitable for a merchant. Or that common courtesy requires us not to use credit cards for small transactions. The consumer doesn't really have the information that would allow him to make that determination and of course a consumer's judgement would always be suspect anyway, tending to weigh evidence in his own self-interest.

You seem to think it would be a good idea for the merchant to make his own determination as to the requirements he would impose on CC use, but it seems to me that that would not be a credit card as we know it and would thus not be as valuable to either consumers or to merchants. I have to assume there are some advantages to accepting credit cards or no one would do it. It's for the merchant to determine whether overall it makes sense for him to use the product, not for the consumer to try and figure out. I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill.

[GEORGE]

Hey Frank

I can't cut and paste all that stuff - I really don't know how- but I want to take issue with the idea that people who use credit cards have some kind of ethical obligation to assure that every discrete transaction is profitable for a merchant. Or that common courtesy requires us not to use credit cards for small transactions. The consumer doesn't really have the information that would allow him to make that determination and of course a consumer's judgement would always be suspect anyway, tending to weigh evidence in his own self-interest.

You seem to think it would be a good idea for the merchant to make his own determination as to the requirements he would impose on CC use, but it seems to me that that would not be a credit card as we know it and would thus not be as valuable to either consumers or to merchants. I have to assume there are some advantages to accepting credit cards or no one would do it. It's for the merchant to determine whether overall it makes sense for him to use the product, not for the consumer to try and figure out. I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill.

I buy something at that business BECAUSE they take credit cards

 

NO CREDIT CARDS...NO SALE

 

PERIOD...THE END

[frank22]

Hey Frank

I can't cut and paste all that stuff - I really don't know how- but I want to take issue with the idea that people who use credit cards have some kind of ethical obligation to assure that every discrete transaction is profitable for a merchant. Or that common courtesy requires us not to use credit cards for small transactions. The consumer doesn't really have the information that would allow him to make that determination and of course a consumer's judgement would always be suspect anyway, tending to weigh evidence in his own self-interest.

 

You never responded to Post#162, you guys are tag teaming it with different spins! It is getting like herding cats. Could you reply to that one? I will touch on some the the points I didn't hit there, and maybe hit on ones I did for a bit of clarity? It is getting too porous, and I am trying to avoid going around in circles.

 

You are making the practice sound more difficult than it actually is. I have answered that with simple remedies in the past on this thread. It is a simple matter to know that small transactions cost merchants money and knowing that it is helpful to the merchant to not charge these. There IS some common courtesy involved. Even if you don't agree with this, you at least know when the merchant asked that you only charge a certain limit. In my view you are being discourteous when you call and complain. You said you understand the small merchants dilemma, so you understand you are hurting him, and then you go and press it.

 

What I do is simple. I don't charge small purchases, I know some stores that do have minimums and I actually don't think it is a problem. Most people understand, common sense really, and it is very few whom press the issue. You are making the practice sound confusing and difficult. It just isn't. I do not put much thought in the merchants welfare either when I make a purchase. I really let him worry about that, but I didn't have to think hard about this and really didn't ever think it altruistic to not charge small things. It was a mental shrug of my shoulders and I went on with my life. I can't understand how this would be anything but a minor cost to you compared to what you know it cost him. This is dealt with in #162, so hopefully you will look at it there and respond.

 

 

You seem to think it would be a good idea for the merchant to make his own determination as to the requirements he would impose on CC use, but it seems to me that that would not be a credit card as we know it and would thus not be as valuable to either consumers or to merchants. I have to assume there are some advantages to accepting credit cards or no one would do it. It's for the merchant to determine whether overall it makes sense for him to use the product, not for the consumer to try and figure out.

 

Again, the practice is not that difficult, if the CC industry wanted, they could allow a certain minimum that would likely be agreed upon, and again, the CC answer is more cumbersome. It would be a negligible adjustment because most consumers do this in practice anyway. I really think you are making it sound more difficult than you know it is. In practice it already works and would be more standardized with a CC industry agreement, meaning even more understanding.

 

I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill

 

Um.....electricity is a expense that merchants normally manage to whatever extent they can. You are the one asking them to NOT manage CC expenses, but a good business manages all expenses and tries, to the extent they can, to attribute them to individual transactions. They should charge accordingly. Like extra cheese on a pizza increases the cost of that pizza. Please see post #47.

Edited September 16, 2009 by frank22

[Uncle Leo]

As is common with subjects like this, comparing things like electricity and sewer and water to CCs rates is irrelevant. Utilities are mandatory. No, not in a "hold a gun to your head" mandatory sense, but in a practical real-world mandatory sense. And all businesses have pretty much a level playing field in this aspect in the sense that they all have them, albeit different amounts based on size and usage, etc. Believe it or not, CCs are not (yet) practical real-world mandatory and are still a choice of the merchant. Most morchants can do without them and do just fine.

[frank22]

I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill.

 

I meant post# 27 instead of #47. Sorry

[green2408]

Hey Frank

I can't cut and paste all that stuff - I really don't know how- but I want to take issue with the idea that people who use credit cards have some kind of ethical obligation to assure that every discrete transaction is profitable for a merchant. Or that common courtesy requires us not to use credit cards for small transactions. The consumer doesn't really have the information that would allow him to make that determination and of course a consumer's judgement would always be suspect anyway, tending to weigh evidence in his own self-interest.

 

You never responded to Post#162, you guys are tag teaming it with different spins! It is getting like herding cats. Could you reply to that one? I will touch on some the the points I didn't hit there, and maybe hit on ones I did for a bit of clarity? It is getting too porous, and I am trying to avoid going around in circles.

 

You are making the practice sound more difficult than it actually is. I have answered that with simple remedies in the past on this thread. It is a simple matter to know that small transactions cost merchants money and knowing that it is helpful to the merchant to not charge these. There IS some common courtesy involved. Even if you don't agree with this, you at least know when the merchant asked that you only charge a certain limit. In my view you are being discourteous when you call and complain. You said you understand the small merchants dilemma, so you understand you are hurting him, and then you go and press it.

 

What I do is simple. I don't charge small purchases, I know some stores that do have minimums and I actually don't think it is a problem. Most people understand, common sense really, and it is very few whom press the issue. You are making the practice sound confusing and difficult. It just isn't. I do not put much thought in the merchants welfare either when I make a purchase. I really let him worry about that, but I didn't have to think hard about this and really didn't ever think it altruistic to not charge small things. It was a mental shrug of my shoulders and I went on with my life. I can't understand how this would be anything but a minor cost to you compared to what you know it cost him. This is dealt with in #162, so hopefully you will look at it there and respond.

 

 

You seem to think it would be a good idea for the merchant to make his own determination as to the requirements he would impose on CC use, but it seems to me that that would not be a credit card as we know it and would thus not be as valuable to either consumers or to merchants. I have to assume there are some advantages to accepting credit cards or no one would do it. It's for the merchant to determine whether overall it makes sense for him to use the product, not for the consumer to try and figure out.

 

Again, the practice is not that difficult, if the CC industry wanted, they could allow a certain minimum that would likely be agreed upon, and again, the CC answer is more cumbersome. It would be a negligible adjustment because most consumers do this in practice anyway. I really think you are making it sound more difficult than you know it is. In practice it already works and would be more standardized with a CC industry agreement, meaning even more understanding.

 

I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill

 

Um.....electricity is a expense that merchants normally manage to whatever extent they can. You are the one asking them to NOT manage CC expenses, but a good business manages all expenses and tries, to the extent they can, to attribute them to individual transactions. They should charge accordingly. Like extra cheese on a pizza increases the cost of that pizza. Please see post #47.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. You think it's good citizenship to avoid using CCs for small purchases. I'm not sure what the absolute definition of a small purchase is, or who decides, but from what I hear you say that determination should be made by the merchant.

 

Now, if you think that's a good idea, all you need is a good way to get everyone else to go along. I don't see that happening. I, for one, see other, competing values as more important.

 

I suppose merchants could band together to make the kind of credit card they would like, and try to make that attractive to consumers in some way. I can't imagine what that way would be.

 

In fact, I have never reported anyone for having minimum charge requirements or surcharges because I never run into it. The couple of times in the past I did run into it, and I'm going back maybe 3 years or so, I've just said "you can't do that" and they go "oh, OK" and just run the credit card. Maybe if I started being confronted with it at a majority of places I shop and it became a problem for me I might report someone.

Edited September 16, 2009 by green2408

[BBQ123]

I noticed a sign on the register today that they will now be charging a transaction fee of $3.00 for EVERY CC or DC transaction

 

So, if I go buy a soda and a pack of smokes it will cost me 6.32 PLUS 3.00 from now on!!!!!!!!!!!! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!! Guess who will NOT be going back to that store?

It is ashamed, I have been going to that store for 30 years

 

With business practices that stupid, I wouldn't even bother reporting them as by the time Visa or MasterCard gets a chance to deal with them the business will likely have gone under.

 

I'm sure that no one loves paying their credit card merchant fees just like no one loves paying their electricity bill.

 

If you want to have electricity, cable television, internet, a slice of pizza, a steak, a bottle of diet pepsi, etc. you either:

 

1) Pay for it (in some way) whether it be a bill, at the store, or you buy ingredients and make it yourself.

 

2) Steal it

 

So if a merchant wants to sell something they can either:

 

1) Accept the contract terms to take credit cards, and then take the cards

 

2) Not accept the contract terms, and put up a sign in the store saying they only accept cash or cash/check

 

 

The most profitable retailers in the United States have decided to accept credit cards, and follow the contract terms. It is a proven fact that acceptance of credit cards increases revenues.

Edited November 2, 2009 by BBQ123

[GEORGE]

IF I CAN'T USE VISA or MC or DISCOVERCARD...I CAN'T BUY IT