Firemen ignore burning house over unpaid fee

[Bad Doctor Frost]

 

Oh go have a be-...wait.

 

Bite me. Meanie.

 

Since Rom seems to be off lately (probably making that nursery or something...)

 

You're beautiful.

I'm never THAT far away. She is beautiful, but... see below.

 

 

 

 

Since Rom seems to be off lately (probably making that nursery or something...)

 

You're beautiful.

You know he sniffs these posts out, and starts polishing his guns..

True. The Platinum Elite is looking a little dusty. Tonight, clean & polish... and load.

 

 

 

Platinum Elite. My, you sure give yourself a lot of credit, huh buddy?

 

Oh, don't let Snork go on her cruise when the baby is born. She said it's yours when it's an infant.

[romadant]

 

Oh go have a be-...wait.

 

Bite me. Meanie.

 

Since Rom seems to be off lately (probably making that nursery or something...)

 

You're beautiful.

I'm never THAT far away. She is beautiful, but... see below.

 

 

 

 

Since Rom seems to be off lately (probably making that nursery or something...)

 

You're beautiful.

You know he sniffs these posts out, and starts polishing his guns..

True. The Platinum Elite is looking a little dusty. Tonight, clean & polish... and load.

 

 

 

Platinum Elite. My, you sure give yourself a lot of credit, huh buddy?

 

Oh, don't let Snork go on her cruise when the baby is born. She said it's yours when it's an infant.

Eh... it would be the least I could do for making her pregnant. Plus, she should probably go on a cruise... before we pop #2 in.

[orangecrush]

 

Hmm. Back to burning houses and you being wrong. Did I read something about you admitting contributing the Dakota's stupidity assesment?

 

[radi8]

If I were a homeowner's insurance company, I'd want to get my hands on the list of folks who didn't pay the fee.

Then get to work cancelling their policies- and cranking the premiums of their neighbors (who DID pay the fee) right through the roof since they are at greater risk.

 

Problem is you can't force your neighbor to pay the fee, so you just get to live with the increased risk. Not exactly equitable. Taxes and levies make much more sense than an optional fee for things that are shared risks. This is short sighted at best.

[pryan67]

I wonder if the fire department also covers their rescue and emt's. If so, if someone has a heart attack....or if a child was trapped in the house, would they still refuse to help?

 

I would imagine there would be some exceptions if the local government was smart in drafting this policy. I would guess there would be a clause to allow rendering of aid when there is a situation where lives are at risk. In your hypotheticals, if someone was trapped in a burning house, they would render enough assistance to get the person out without going to the extent of putting the fire out completely unless it endangers others or other property which is covered. In the case of someone who is suffering from a heart attack, I would imagine they will still render aid and try to recover any costs from any applicable insurance. If there isn't supplemental funding available, the local government just eats the cost.

 

or maybe there should be a provision of pay the $75 upfront, and if you don't and we have to respond to your home, then it is $750 to be billed to you later with the threat of a lien (like taxes). There HAS to be a better solution that standing there and watching a house burn.

 

 

+100000

 

 

 

 

I'm curious though...I'm rural...

 

I still pay taxes to the town (even though I'm outside the city limits)....

 

ARE they paying taxes to the town, and the 75 bucks is just an additional fee?

[Islandgal]

They let animals die..they watched,stood by while 3 dogs and a cat burned to death...

[butterflywings]

HuffPost is now all over this; it's on their front page. Over 6k comments so far.

 

I agree with everyone that it was the homeowner's responsibility to pay the fee and they gambled and lost. My only point is the humanity of it; that when a person is right there in front of a burning house and has the means to stop it and doesn't, no matter the $75 or the mistakes made or the shoulda coulda's....I think that is so effed up. Mileages obviously vary on here. lol

 

Why did the fire department show up? I'd feel a lot better, well maybe not a lot but a little better if the fire dept had just said we cannot show up since you didn't pay the fee. But to show up and just stand there! Was there any other purpose to that than to rub their face in that fact that it was all their fault.

Edited October 5, 2010 by butterflywings

[orangecrush]

HuffPost is now all over this; it's on their front page. Over 6k comments so far.

 

I agree with everyone that it was the homeowner's responsibility to pay the fee and they gambled and lost. My only point is the humanity of it; that when a person is right there in front of a burning house and has the means to stop it and doesn't, no matter the $75 or the mistakes made or the shoulda coulda's....I think that is so effed up. Mileages obviously vary on here. lol

 

Why did the fire department show up? I'd feel a lot better, well maybe not a lot but a little better if the fire dept had just said we cannot show up since you didn't pay the fee. But to show up and just stand there! Was there any other purpose to that than to rub their face in that fact that it was all their fault.

 

The fire department showed up, because the house next door who had paid the fee needed help.

[butterflywings]

Last night, Keith Olberman interviewed the homeowner of the house that burned down.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#39510856

 

I didn't realize that that was why they showed up, OC. Thanks for clarifying.

[orangecrush]

They let animals die..they watched,stood by while 3 dogs and a cat burned to death...

 

 

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=446397

 

 

 

I don't get the outrage..its a cat...people treat their fellow humans much worst..

 

How we treat those smaller and weaker than ourselves is a pretty good indication of our (lack of) character.

 

imho.

 

I'm jaded.. I'd love to agree but can't...folk will get all out of sorts when it comes to animals but couldn't care less about fellow human beings..

 

It's only a cat...and the UK...

 

It's a pity people feel more outraged over that..than this

 

 

why do people have their knickers in a twist? It's not like the kitty got to use up one of it's lives

 

after walking through asian markets and seeing skinned cats on display for meat, I really can't work up any outrage over this...I can't remember the name of city in China but our guide was telling us something like 10,000 cats are eaten everyday forget drug dealers...one of the biggest problems was the cat meat dealers..

[orangecrush]

If I were a homeowner's insurance company, I'd want to get my hands on the list of folks who didn't pay the fee.

Then get to work cancelling their policies- and cranking the premiums of their neighbors (who DID pay the fee) right through the roof since they are at greater risk.

 

Problem is you can't force your neighbor to pay the fee, so you just get to live with the increased risk. Not exactly equitable. Taxes and levies make much more sense than an optional fee for things that are shared risks. This is short sighted at best.

 

These types of fees for years in many areas of the country, with few problems. It only makes the news, when a whiner who did not pay has something happen.

 

Many places in Florida have "unincorporated" areas. They are not a part of a city and many of them fight becoming a part of a city. When it comes time to vote on becoming a part of a city they vote "no", but want the same services the city offers its residents. They have to pay fees to the city to use those services.

 

If the unincorporated area has a large number of residents, they will usually vote on some sort of tax to get the services. If the area has only a few residents, they usually go with the optional fee.

 

ETA: Most insurers know the situation in rural areas with regards fire services. Their premiums already reflect that.

Edited October 5, 2010 by orangecrush

[orangecrush]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html

 

Cranick lives outside of the city limits and he admits that he forgot to pay a $75 annual service fee that would have provided him with fire protection.

 

Now his story has changed somewhat. He originally said:

 

Mr Cranick said: "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."

 

Why would he say that, unless he knew he had not paid the fee? I read in the comments on one site, that the family had never paid the fee. I don't know if that is true or not.

 

 

Hours later, the home was gone.

 

So were three dogs and a cat.

 

"They coulda' been saved if they put water on it. But they didn't do it," Cranick told MSNBC.

 

They could have been saved if they had paid the $75. But they didn't do it.

 

 

South Fulton Mayor David Crocker didn't exude compassion when interviewed for the same report, comparing the service to an insurance policy. "Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't."

 

A family in Tennessee didn't accept. They lost their home over a $75 fee.

 

They lost their homes over choosing not to pay that fee.

[butterflywings]

The homeowner said last night he has insurance and the adjuster is already on it, but I can't imagine the insurance company could be forced to pay when the homeowner didn't pay the fee for fire protection. That left the insurance company at risk. There should be something in these polices stating that coverage is void if the fee isn't paid.

[orangecrush]

The homeowner said last night he has insurance and the adjuster is already on it, but I can't imagine the insurance company could be forced to pay when the homeowner didn't pay the fee for fire protection. That left the insurance company at risk. There should be something in these polices stating that coverage is void if the fee isn't paid.

 

As I said in my previous post, the insurance companies are aware of the situation with regards to rural areas.

 

When I was shopping for a policy,one company asked the usual questions about how far from a fire hydrant and how far from a fire station, they also asked if the address was served by a fire department or police station. They also asked something about wells too, I don't remember what though.

[butterflywings]

The homeowner said last night he has insurance and the adjuster is already on it, but I can't imagine the insurance company could be forced to pay when the homeowner didn't pay the fee for fire protection. That left the insurance company at risk. There should be something in these polices stating that coverage is void if the fee isn't paid.

 

As I said in my previous post, the insurance companies are aware of the situation with regards to rural areas.

 

When I was shopping for a policy,one company asked the usual questions about how far from a fire hydrant and how far from a fire station, they also asked if the address was served by a fire department or police station. They also asked something about wells too, I don't remember what though.

 

But I don't think it goes far enough. I think there should be a special provision denying coverage. I don't beleive it is possible to raise the premiums enough on these rural homes to pad the insurance company's risk if these residents don't pay the "pay for spray" fee.

 

The dude last night said he didnt have enough insurance to cover the loss, but he came short of asking for help. I just don't think homeowners put enough serious thought into risk management of the most important asset they'll probably ever have. I remember when our assessment went up 33% a few years ago, it was a month or so before our policy was going to be paid by escrow. I said to dh we need to up our coverage to what they say the house is now worth but when we got the policy in the mail a few weeks later the insurance company had already done that. They knew our assessment went up. I guess these entities talk more than I thought.

[orangecrush]

Okay!!!! Hold the thread!!!! When this initially happened I got the impression that the fire had started, because lightning had struck a field. Now, I just read that this salamander was burning fires in barrels, in his backyard.

 

I had no sympathy for him already, so I guess I can't have any less after reading that.

 

He needs to shut up and take a look in the mirror. That is where the person to blame for this mess, will appear.

 

I hope they have an ordinance against burning stuff in the backyard and fine him for it.

 

ETA: Is it true that it took two hours to spread to his home? If that is the case, why didn't he let his pets out and start hauling out precious memories?????

Edited October 5, 2010 by orangecrush

[orangecrush]

 

 

But I don't think it goes far enough. I think there should be a special provision denying coverage. I don't beleive it is possible to raise the premiums enough on these rural homes to pad the insurance company's risk if these residents don't pay the "pay for spray" fee.

 

The dude last night said he didnt have enough insurance to cover the loss, but he came short of asking for help. I just don't think homeowners put enough serious thought into risk management of the most important asset they'll probably ever have. I remember when our assessment went up 33% a few years ago, it was a month or so before our policy was going to be paid by escrow. I said to dh we need to up our coverage to what they say the house is now worth but when we got the policy in the mail a few weeks later the insurance company had already done that. They knew our assessment went up. I guess these entities talk more than I thought.

 

Obviously the insurance companies think they make enough on the premiums, to justify the risk. If they didn't, then they would not insure the homes.

 

Assessment value here has nothing to do with replacement value for insurance purposes. Most homes in Florida are not assessed at anywhere near what it would cost to replace them. My home is assessed at around 50% of what it would take to replace it. None of my insurance companies used assessed value to determine the amount of coverage, I needed.

[Tigz]

OK, I have had time to ponder, and time to research.

 

I fully blame the County for this ridiculousness. - not particularly this specific case...but their emergency services in general.

 

A little bit of stats for Obion County:

Obion County TN

 

Population 2009 31,431

Overall land area: 555 sq miles (545 sq miles land, 10 sq miles water)

 

Cities in Obion County - Population - physical city size.

 

 

• Hornbeak – 435 – .5 sq miles
• Kenton – 1306 – 1.6 sq miles
• Obion – 1134 – 1 sq mile
• Rives – 331 – .4 sq miles
• Samburg – 260 – .6 sq miles
• South Fulton – 2517 – 3 sq miles
• Trimble – 728 – .5 sq miles
• Troy – 1273 – 1.1 sq miles
• Union City – 10876 – 8.8 sq miles
• Woodland Mills – 385 – 1.1 sq miles

Number of people living outside an incorporated area 12, 513 (please note that some of these towns don't have a fire department, or are volunteer departments that will cover two townships.)

 

Total amount of incorporated land - 18.6

Total amount unincorporated land - 545 (555 total area minus 10 sq miles water)

 

Obion County has no Fire Control Department (and I am presuming no Rescue/EMT service)

 

total amount of land that has no fire protection 526.4 sq miles.

 

I can see someplace like Union City having its own fire department, but truthfully everything else...including South Fulton...should be county service. The smaller the town, the higher the cost per person.

 

It is really absurd that there is no county service considering that greater than 1/3 of the population live in rural areas.

[orangecrush]

OK, I have had time to ponder, and time to research.

 

I fully blame the County for this ridiculousness. - not particularly this specific case...but their emergency services in general.

 

A little bit of stats for Obion County:

Obion County TN

 

Population 2009 31,431

Overall land area: 555 sq miles (545 sq miles land, 10 sq miles water)

 

Cities in Obion County - Population - physical city size.

 

 

• Hornbeak – 435 – .5 sq miles
• Kenton – 1306 – 1.6 sq miles
• Obion – 1134 – 1 sq mile
• Rives – 331 – .4 sq miles
• Samburg – 260 – .6 sq miles
• South Fulton – 2517 – 3 sq miles
• Trimble – 728 – .5 sq miles
• Troy – 1273 – 1.1 sq miles
• Union City – 10876 – 8.8 sq miles
• Woodland Mills – 385 – 1.1 sq miles

Number of people living outside an incorporated area 12, 513 (please note that some of these towns don't have a fire department, or are volunteer departments that will cover two townships.)

 

Total amount of incorporated land - 18.6

Total amount unincorporated land - 545 (555 total area minus 10 sq miles water)

 

Obion County has no Fire Control Department (and I am presuming no Rescue/EMT service)

 

total amount of land that has no fire protection 526.4 sq miles.

 

I can see someplace like Union City having its own fire department, but truthfully everything else...including South Fulton...should be county service. The smaller the town, the higher the cost per person.

 

It is really absurd that there is no county service considering that greater than 1/3 of the population live in rural areas.

 

The county has been dealing with this for years. Allegedly, they do not want to raise taxes and the residents do not want them to.

[hlburi]

I'm with OC. I have no sympathy for this dumbass. He could have paid the $75 but chose not to. Too bad for him.

 

They were talking about this story on the news this morning and the news people seemed sympathetic to him. The guy is a flippin moron. He offered to pay the $75 afterwards if they would put out his fire. It doesn't work that way dumbbutt. If it did, I would cancel my car insurance and "offer to pay it" after I got into a wreck.

[hlburi]

Why did the fire department show up?

 

They showed up to protect the homes that DID pay and make sure they didn't get burned.

 

I have no sympathy for the jackass.

[orangecrush]

I'm with OC. I have no sympathy for this dumbass. He could have paid the $75 but chose not to. Too bad for him.

 

They were talking about this story on the news this morning and the news people seemed sympathetic to him. The guy is a flippin moron. He offered to pay the $75 afterwards if they would put out his fire. It doesn't work that way dumbbutt. If it did, I would cancel my car insurance and "offer to pay it" after I got into a wreck.

 

 

Actually, they offered to pay whatever it cost the firemen to put the fire out. That is more than $75.

 

As I said earlier, he probably would not have paid up, when the bill came. He would probably claim he left his wallet in the house...

Edited October 5, 2010 by orangecrush

[butterflywings]

Why did the fire department show up?

 

They showed up to protect the homes that DID pay and make sure they didn't get burned.

 

I have no sympathy for the jackass.

 

I do, I can't help it. It's how I'm wired I guess.

 

Yes, he was stupid not to pay the fee and I think there should be consequences. I like the idea of putting a lien against the home. But there is no way in this world I could stand by and watch my neighbors house burn down, if I had the means to stop it, and not want to do something, anything about it. I don't know how anyone could be that cold. I guess I want to save people from themselves, I don't know. lol

[giraffy]

Why did the fire department show up?

 

They showed up to protect the homes that DID pay and make sure they didn't get burned.

 

I have no sympathy for the jackass.

 

I do, I can't help it. It's how I'm wired I guess.

 

Yes, he was stupid not to pay the fee and I think there should be consequences. I like the idea of putting a lien against the home. But there is no way in this world I could stand by and watch my neighbors house burn down, if I had the means to stop it, and not want to do something, anything about it. I don't know how anyone could be that cold. I guess I want to save people from themselves, I don't know. lol

You cannot be responsible for other people who choose not to be responsible for themselves.

 

It's just not possible.

[Seabee]

Why did the fire department show up?

 

They showed up to protect the homes that DID pay and make sure they didn't get burned.

 

I have no sympathy for the jackass.

 

I do, I can't help it. It's how I'm wired I guess.

 

Yes, he was stupid not to pay the fee and I think there should be consequences. I like the idea of putting a lien against the home. But there is no way in this world I could stand by and watch my neighbors house burn down, if I had the means to stop it, and not want to do something, anything about it. I don't know how anyone could be that cold. I guess I want to save people from themselves, I don't know. lol

 

You can still help. I'm sure it won't be long before they'll publish an address to which you can send your generous contribution.