some thoughts

[pryan67]

yes...they both can

[somedaysomehow]

Great thread, PRyan. I was just looking at all the threads in your siggy and really liked this one. So *bump* so other newbies can be motivated from it, like I am!

[punkinbee59]

BUMP!!!!

 

BEST.

THREAD.

EVAH.

 

[jack1212]

I am not rolling over. I am not giving up, BUT

 

I am ashamed to admit this, I have no desire to sue anyone. I am building up a paper trail to have in case they sue me, but since it is an old debt bought by a JDB and is not affecting FICO in a serious way, I seem to be content just answering their letters with a "please validate" alternating with a "the purported validation is not sufficient under applicable law." They have not threatened me with anything yet.

 

My type B personality, I guess.

 

I'm a type A. Just reading about your paper trail makes me salivate. I want to rip someone's head off.

 

I agree marcustx. Iv'e got the pissed off, IM MAD AS HELL AND I AINT TAKING IT NO MORE" attitude. But i have to be careful so i dont slip up this way.

[pryan67]

very important advice above....don't let emotion cloud your judgment....but also, don't let emotion totally escape either....keep just enough emotion in the game that you don't go overboard and make mistakes...but don't take enough away to dull your senses

[Jen23514]

^

[pryan67]

I'm feeling another rant coming on *LOL*

 

maybe about people not having "time" to do this *LOL*

Edited November 27, 2007 by pryan67

[pryan67]

bumping

[C R]

Thank you for bumping this. I've been a member for quite some time, but this is only my 2nd post. I needed to read that. I have such a long road ahead of me, but your post has inspired me a great deal. Thank you.

[heavyjay]

bumping

 

I know this is linked in your siggy, but a lot of people (like me) are missing it. Can it be made a sticky?

[InsultComicDog]

bumping

[Guest grendel]

Good thread. I used to post stuff like this.

 

Now I just eat people's heads for a hobby.

 

The laws are so stacked in the consumer's favor, it's not even funny.

 

Use 'em.

[yourguide]

:clapping:

[romadant]

I just wish they'd change the laws for me so if I won a case against a CA I could choose one or the other:

 

A ) $1,000 per violation

 

OR

 

B ) One gut punch to the president/CEO of the CA/JDB company for each violation

 

 

Hmmmmmmm.... which would I choose.

P.S. Of course I'm just kidding.

Edited December 29, 2007 by romadant

[pryan67]

I just wish they'd change the laws for me so if I won a case against a CA I could choose one or the other:

 

A ) $1,000 per violation

 

OR

 

B ) One gut punch to the president/CEO of the CA/JDB company for each violation

 

 

Hmmmmmmm.... which would I choose.

P.S. Of course I'm just kidding.

 

 

 

now THAT would be fun...wouldn't it?

[jack1212]

I just wish they'd change the laws for me so if I won a case against a CA I could choose one or the other:

 

A ) $1,000 per violation

 

OR

 

B ) One gut punch to the president/CEO of the CA/JDB company for each violation

 

 

Hmmmmmmm.... which would I choose.

P.S. Of course I'm just kidding.

 

Ah what da hell. Take the check and then bitchslap him anyway.

 

jack1212

[bird2006]

bump....

 

lets get angry!!

[pryan67]

fun bump

[WhatzUrPlan]

Thanks SOOOOO MUCH, pryan!!! I needed a good kick square in the flowers on this one! This post made me want to stand up on my chair & cheer like I was at a pep rally...or a Tony Robbins' seminar.

 

I used to just HIDE and ignore most of the calls when my phone rang...oops...toll-free number, don't answer it; oh...unknown name, unknown number, not answerin' that one, either! Recently, I decided to answer the calls, ask the "creditor" for the name, address & phone number of their agency and send them each a letter (forgot the name of the letter) telling them to only communicate with me IN WRITING. This is OUR PHONE that WE PAY FOR, therefore, WE DECIDE WHO CALLS IT and I'm NOT going to have it HIJACKED by a bunch of CA's whether legit or not! I refuse to live in "fear" of my phone ringing and be stressed because it rings OFF THE HOOK! I'm not paying ANYBODY based on their word OVER THE PHONE, anyway!

 

So...this morning, the EVIL Midland calls my house...asks for me, I tell her she is speaking with [me], she tells me who she is, what alleged bill she's calling about & how / when I plan to pay it. My response to her was: what company are you with & what's your address? The "B" has the nerve to ask me "WHY do you want the address???" (Because I'm bringing a steak & lobster lunch, ya genius) I said "excuse me", she reiterates the question, saying "I'll tell you the address when you tell me why you want it". I say "because, according to the Fair Credit Reporting Act, I have the RIGHT to know the name, address and phone number of any company CLAIMING I owe them money" She got VERY SNIPPY so I said "don't catch an attitude with me for knowing my RIGHTS ~ we can end the conversation here or you can give me the address!" She barks out the address, saying "it's NOT an ATTITUDE, MA'AM, HERE is the address, then gives me the phone number and, when I ask, the fax number. I said "thank you, you'll be hearing from me within 7 days IN WRITING" and ended the call.

 

Now, I may be crazy, however I do know this was no major victory but it SURE felt like one in the moment!

 

The one thing I forgot to get from her was the account / reference number (oops)! Since, thanks to the CRAs, they already have the phone number, should I call back & ask for the file number so I can include it in the correspondence?

 

 

Pryan, I think maybe I'll put your post up on the wall by my desk for THOSE DAYS!! Thanks again!

 

Here's a typical story of someone who hasn't been here yet.

 

 

1. CA harrasses you day and night for months on end

2. you ignore them, hoping they'll go away

3. They'll keep threatening you with wage garnishment, poisoning your puppy, eating your ancestors, setting fire to your car, causing a meteorite to fall on your home, creating a whirling vortex of demons to haunt your sleep

4. They'll call your friends and neighbors telling them that you're a deadbeat

5. Your parents will get phone calls from them asking how they could have raised such a loser

6. They'll call your boss and tell them that they have a thief working for them

7. They'll sell the account to another CA and it will start from number 1

 

(all the above is real, except for SOME of the threats they make)

 

NOW....

 

 

you're not going to let that happen to you, right? You're a member of CB...so you're going to read here...learn as much as you can...enforce your rights under FDCPA and FCRA, and HURT the bastards. Not just make them stop bugging you, but HURT them. I don't EVER want to hear that you're "just waiting them out, they'll go away". You're NOT waiting for a THING. Let THEM be the ones that want YOU to go away. You're going to push forward, you're going to FIGHT them, you're going to push them back under whatever rock they crawled out from. You're going to make them regret the day the rubber broke and the ill begotten result of their parents nighttime romp was conceived. They're going to FEAR you. They want YOU to be the one that's afraid, but you're not going to let it happen. You're going to strike TERROR into their flabby, black little hearts.

 

After they get your first letter, they're going to stand up on their lemonade soaked hind legs and say "SON OF A mouse, It's another one of those G DAM EDUCATED consumers." He's going to wish that he had taken that job cleaning public toilets with his tongue.

 

Sometimes I actually pity the poor bastards...I feel sorry for the poor, misguided souls that think they're actually doing a SERVICE for society. Sometimes I think that maybe some of them can't help it. Maybe they weren't held enough as a baby, maybe their parents were brother and sister. Maybe the best street corners are taking by other beggars...but don't let emotion get in the way, they are the ENEMY. No mercy for the bastards. Once you get ahold of them by the nose, KICK THEM IN THE flowers. Don't let up. Keep pushing them until they BEG you to stop, then kick them again. Let THEM be the ones to surrender. Let THEM be the ones to cry out for mercy. Let THEM be the ones to hide, hoping you'll go away. When you're through with them, they'll want to dig a hole and pull it back in over them.

 

 

Remember, these jokers are out for ONE thing and one thing ONLY. They're there to seperate you from YOUR money, whether you owe it or not. They don't care about your rights, they don't care about what's REALLY owed. All they care about is taking money from you to put it in their own pockets. In this respect, they're no better than common thieves. The only difference is that they break into your house using a telephone rather than the front door. Treat them as you would treat ANY intruder into your home. Use the laws that are there to protect you and FIGHT. If a stranger came up to you on the street and demanded money that they claimed you owed them, what would you do? Fork it over? Not a chance. You'd demand to know what it's for and why you owe them. If they couldn't prove what they said, you'd tell them to go lemonade up a rope. These CAs calling you are doing EXACTLY the same thing. Don't put up with it. The sooner you realize that YOU'RE in control the better for you, and the worse for them, and that should be the goal...make them MISERABLE...with any luck they'll quit and start doing something PRODUCTIVE for a living.

 

 

 

 

Syms.com says "An educated consumer is our best customer"

 

CAs say "An educated consumer is our worst nightmare."

[WhatzUrPlan]

OOHHHHHH PRYAN!!! I KNOW these posts of yours were over a year ago...but what you DON'T know is that they soooo apply to my life RIGHT NOW!!! I just spoke with my attorney's office THIS MORNING, in fact!

 

 

On June 1, 2008 I was hit by a red-light-running, invincible, profanity removed 19 year old who, after drinking all day the state fair with his two underage passengers, blew a .253 shortly after hitting me & flipping his car, nearly killed 4 people and spent LESS than 12 hours in jail! He was buying "his" car from a private party & never bothered to register or insure the damned thing!

 

He's walking around free, already having the opportunity to request reinstatement of his license and STILL HAS NOT seen a judge or any paperwork from the court / D.A.

 

Okay, I know this was off-topic, but you just haaaaad to bring up the intoxication!!!

 

Where the hell to even begin when it comes to "manning up"??!! MY family is still dealing with the consequences of HIS stupidity while he walks around free and still stupid.

 

 

to be honest though...people SHOULD "man up" if necessary...

 

for example, since we can't use a CA as an example, because they can't ever prove anything

 

 

 

so let's use something else...

 

let's say you're arrested for drinking in a place that's prohibited...for public intoxication...

 

a person in that case should own up to it and accept the consequences...not lawyer up and get off with a slap on the wrist....

 

right?

Edited July 14, 2008 by Stryker
Profanity removed. Consult TOS.

[madpoetx]

Not for nothing, but I do understand where someone like Mike comes from with what he is saying... CA's use loopholes, dirty tricks, and obscure legal references to justify their exorbitant claims on your money...while this site is useful for those truly in need of protection from illlegal collections acts, there tends to develop within it a mentality of escapism from the system without trying to actually fix the problem, which is that the credit system has been screwed up in this country for quite some time now. The mortgage banking crisis is evidence enough of that. While it is quite clear that there are abuses in the system perpetrated by CA's, to which the FDCPA has established a somewhat reasonable defense from, there is also the antithesis to the problem, which is that there are truly irresponsible people out there wasting credit and looking for an out, including individuals who intentionally defraud the system for ill-gotten gain.

 

We as citizens in this consumer society are inundated by mass media and advertising to buy excessively, to have the next bigger flat screen, the next cooler cell phone, the nicest cars, but we really never get to see the cost of them, at least not until the bill arrives. And to be truthful, all these things mean to an OC is another number on a page to justify at the end of the quarter, with the hopes of making a profit. Of course, CA's, being a naturally disreputable part of society(akin to loansharks, or the "money-lenders in the Temple" from Christian literature), operate within the quasi-legal realm of extorting payment for those debts, which they themselves have picked up for a fraction of the price. Of course, they, like the OC's are looking at their own bottom line, hoping to make a profit as well, and when 9 out of 10 debtors simply don't pay their debt, not because it's unreasonable as may be the case of many of yours(By yours I mean those of you who have reasonable and valid complaints against unfair debts on your record and not just a frivolous hope of getting something for nothing), but simply because they don't want to accept the responsibility for their actions. It is then that the CA's resort to the tactics you mentioned before to milk that 1 out of 10 debts for as much as they can, essentially victimizing instead of rewarding the honest person who just wants to pay their debt and nothing more.

 

Having browsed the forums a bit, I've noticed a lot of people monitoring their success by the types of credit cards and the level of credit limits they are getting. I do not mean to be rude with regard to that, but I would think that the objective would be to repair your credit so that you would never again dig yourself back into the credit market so deeply as to owe anyone so large a part of yourself, which your labor truly is...and the freedom to choose what the fruits of that labor will be, one of the few freedoms we really have left...perhaps we should begin monitoring our success by the level of happiness we find with the simpler things in our lives, which money cannot buy, and leave the consumerism to some other schmuck coming down the pipe...

 

So when you take what this man said at face value, to "man up and pay the creditor what you borrowed from them", I'd say that is a pretty accurate statement, just to save some of the rest of us the hassle of CA extortion which may be aimed at turning a profit. If the creditor barters with you for a pound of flesh, and you agreed to it, then give the pound of flesh, but don't let them take your blood...

 

I realize that I am a newbie to this forum, but I'm having a difficult time in trying to turn this into an adversarial "us versus them" situation. I'm sorry if I havn't been indoctrinated enough to see what is necessary to do that, but I am learning as I go...

[ProfessorMom]

Having browsed the forums a bit, I've noticed a lot of people monitoring their success by the types of credit cards and the level of credit limits they are getting. I do not mean to be rude with regard to that, but I would think that the objective would be to repair your credit so that you would never again dig yourself back into the credit market so deeply as to owe anyone so large a part of yourself, which your labor truly is...and the freedom to choose what the fruits of that labor will be, one of the few freedoms we really have left...perhaps we should begin monitoring our success by the level of happiness we find with the simpler things in our lives, which money cannot buy, and leave the consumerism to some other schmuck coming down the pipe...

 

Available credit does not equal debt. Optimal scores usually occur between 1-9% utilization. In order to charge $1000 monthly, I need to have a minimum $10000 of available credit and so on. Using credit is less expensive (not to mention safer) than using cash so having that available credit saves you money. On the flipside, it also allows tracking of your spending habits but that's personal choice. For me, I'll take the extra $$$$ in my pocket every year. What I make in bonuses from credit cards will pay for new spring clothes for my 4 kids. To a mom of four, that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

Success is not measured by your credit limit. Success is absolutely measured by level of happiness. Happiness comes from inner peace. I don't think the majority of people here guage their success by their credit score, although consumerism does run rampant in society. I think this past year or so has been an eye opener for many people and it will cause some change, at least for a generation or two.

[pryan67]

Not for nothing, but I do understand where someone like Mike comes from with what he is saying... CA's use loopholes, dirty tricks, and obscure legal references to justify their exorbitant claims on your money...while this site is useful for those truly in need of protection from illlegal collections acts, there tends to develop within it a mentality of escapism from the system without trying to actually fix the problem, which is that the credit system has been screwed up in this country for quite some time now. The mortgage banking crisis is evidence enough of that. While it is quite clear that there are abuses in the system perpetrated by CA's, to which the FDCPA has established a somewhat reasonable defense from, there is also the antithesis to the problem, which is that there are truly irresponsible people out there wasting credit and looking for an out, including individuals who intentionally defraud the system for ill-gotten gain.

people that intentionally defraud the system are in the minority (as are the CAs that are honest, upstanding people)...and they're not welcome here....I, for one, won't help someone that's just out to defraud...

 

We as citizens in this consumer society are inundated by mass media and advertising to buy excessively, to have the next bigger flat screen, the next cooler cell phone, the nicest cars, but we really never get to see the cost of them, at least not until the bill arrives. And to be truthful, all these things mean to an OC is another number on a page to justify at the end of the quarter, with the hopes of making a profit. Of course, CA's, being a naturally disreputable part of society(akin to loansharks, or the "money-lenders in the Temple" from Christian literature), operate within the quasi-legal realm of extorting payment for those debts, which they themselves have picked up for a fraction of the price. Of course, they, like the OC's are looking at their own bottom line, hoping to make a profit as well, and when 9 out of 10 debtors simply don't pay their debt, not because it's unreasonable as may be the case of many of yours(By yours I mean those of you who have reasonable and valid complaints against unfair debts on your record and not just a frivolous hope of getting something for nothing), but simply because they don't want to accept the responsibility for their actions. It is then that the CA's resort to the tactics you mentioned before to milk that 1 out of 10 debts for as much as they can, essentially victimizing instead of rewarding the honest person who just wants to pay their debt and nothing more.

CA's resort to those tactics from the get go....

 

 

 

Having browsed the forums a bit, I've noticed a lot of people monitoring their success by the types of credit cards and the level of credit limits they are getting. I do not mean to be rude with regard to that, but I would think that the objective would be to repair your credit so that you would never again dig yourself back into the credit market so deeply as to owe anyone so large a part of yourself, which your labor truly is...and the freedom to choose what the fruits of that labor will be, one of the few freedoms we really have left...perhaps we should begin monitoring our success by the level of happiness we find with the simpler things in our lives, which money cannot buy, and leave the consumerism to some other schmuck coming down the pipe...

what's arong with that? just because you might have 250k in available credit lines, that doesn't mean that you need to use it all...

 

 

 

So when you take what this man said at face value, to "man up and pay the creditor what you borrowed from them", I'd say that is a pretty accurate statement, just to save some of the rest of us the hassle of CA extortion which may be aimed at turning a profit. If the creditor barters with you for a pound of flesh, and you agreed to it, then give the pound of flesh, but don't let them take your blood...

sure....but WHO do I owe...and what do I owe them? that's the question....

I realize that I am a newbie to this forum, but I'm having a difficult time in trying to turn this into an adversarial "us versus them" situation. I'm sorry if I havn't been indoctrinated enough to see what is necessary to do that, but I am learning as I go...

 

 

the thing is, it IS "us vs them"....they're the criminals...out to extort money from consumers through any means necessary...and the more CAs that are called to task, the better it is for the consumer...

[madpoetx]

Not for nothing, but I do understand where someone like Mike comes from with what he is saying... CA's use loopholes, dirty tricks, and obscure legal references to justify their exorbitant claims on your money...while this site is useful for those truly in need of protection from illlegal collections acts, there tends to develop within it a mentality of escapism from the system without trying to actually fix the problem, which is that the credit system has been screwed up in this country for quite some time now. The mortgage banking crisis is evidence enough of that. While it is quite clear that there are abuses in the system perpetrated by CA's, to which the FDCPA has established a somewhat reasonable defense from, there is also the antithesis to the problem, which is that there are truly irresponsible people out there wasting credit and looking for an out, including individuals who intentionally defraud the system for ill-gotten gain.

people that intentionally defraud the system are in the minority (as are the CAs that are honest, upstanding people)...and they're not welcome here....I, for one, won't help someone that's just out to defraud...

 

We as citizens in this consumer society are inundated by mass media and advertising to buy excessively, to have the next bigger flat screen, the next cooler cell phone, the nicest cars, but we really never get to see the cost of them, at least not until the bill arrives. And to be truthful, all these things mean to an OC is another number on a page to justify at the end of the quarter, with the hopes of making a profit. Of course, CA's, being a naturally disreputable part of society(akin to loansharks, or the "money-lenders in the Temple" from Christian literature), operate within the quasi-legal realm of extorting payment for those debts, which they themselves have picked up for a fraction of the price. Of course, they, like the OC's are looking at their own bottom line, hoping to make a profit as well, and when 9 out of 10 debtors simply don't pay their debt, not because it's unreasonable as may be the case of many of yours(By yours I mean those of you who have reasonable and valid complaints against unfair debts on your record and not just a frivolous hope of getting something for nothing), but simply because they don't want to accept the responsibility for their actions. It is then that the CA's resort to the tactics you mentioned before to milk that 1 out of 10 debts for as much as they can, essentially victimizing instead of rewarding the honest person who just wants to pay their debt and nothing more.

CA's resort to those tactics from the get go....

 

 

 

Having browsed the forums a bit, I've noticed a lot of people monitoring their success by the types of credit cards and the level of credit limits they are getting. I do not mean to be rude with regard to that, but I would think that the objective would be to repair your credit so that you would never again dig yourself back into the credit market so deeply as to owe anyone so large a part of yourself, which your labor truly is...and the freedom to choose what the fruits of that labor will be, one of the few freedoms we really have left...perhaps we should begin monitoring our success by the level of happiness we find with the simpler things in our lives, which money cannot buy, and leave the consumerism to some other schmuck coming down the pipe...

what's arong with that? just because you might have 250k in available credit lines, that doesn't mean that you need to use it all...

 

 

 

So when you take what this man said at face value, to "man up and pay the creditor what you borrowed from them", I'd say that is a pretty accurate statement, just to save some of the rest of us the hassle of CA extortion which may be aimed at turning a profit. If the creditor barters with you for a pound of flesh, and you agreed to it, then give the pound of flesh, but don't let them take your blood...

sure....but WHO do I owe...and what do I owe them? that's the question....

I realize that I am a newbie to this forum, but I'm having a difficult time in trying to turn this into an adversarial "us versus them" situation. I'm sorry if I havn't been indoctrinated enough to see what is necessary to do that, but I am learning as I go...

 

 

the thing is, it IS "us vs them"....they're the criminals...out to extort money from consumers through any means necessary...and the more CAs that are called to task, the better it is for the consumer...

 

Well, I can agree with you for the most part, except that they are only criminals when they fraudulently try to get you to pay a debt that doesn't belong to you. At very least they are opportunists out to take advantage of the ill-informed and undereducated populace. The issue Mike brought up, and I agree with is more about personal responsibility. While I support and agree with the idea of burning those who would victimize you in this market, the overall system itself does not get fixed in the process of consumers exercising their rights in this situation, it merely stagnates until the next uninformed consumer gets burned twice as bad, simply because the CA's are twice as hungry...it is a symptom of the underlying problem that the credit markets have been so poorly run in this country that these CA's hover like vultures to pick apart honest citizens, simply because there is no other enforcement agent in this situation besides the informed consumer, and the vultures know from the economy that the pickings are slim. Their act of doing so is a sign of desperate times to come, and a much deeper depression than anyone in DC wants to admit. After all, politicians are only good at two things, emphasizing their own "accomplishments" and minimizing their mistakes in the public eye. There has definitely been a lot of minimalization going on when we are calling a downturn that began in 2001 merely a recession, yet in the same breath comparing it to 1929...

 

The sub-prime mortgage fiasco is a result of this attitude, in which creditors recognized a way to make a quick buck by offering what was supposed to be strictly an investor's tool (adjustable rate mortgages) to an undereducated public, who used it for buying their live-in home, and got caught holding the bag when the rates went up and home values went down with no where else to move to(investors would simply sell at this point and still come out ahead, because they didn't depend upon that home to live in, and therefore could vacate and dump the property quickly). The creditors knew in the end, that even if they did screw up, which they did in a big way, that we as tax-paying consumers would end up holding the bill (hello bailouts)...they KNEW this from the very beginning and proceeded anyway, giving credit to people who would have been better off and much happier without it, all the while making plans for when the bubble did actually burst, which the housing market definitely did. They got their golden parachutes ready, pre-positioned and gave up a few scapegoats, and are now long gone, having moved on to either obscurity, or the next scam to come down the road. The reason this worked...corporate personhood. It's the company's fault, not the criminals running it, after all...at least that's what the people who did it want you to focus on...

 

It does no person on this board any good to fix their own personal credit score when, on a societal level, we are coming to a society in which you will have to have no less than a perfect credit score to even borrow a dime anyway...all we can hope for is to not owe anybody anything when the bottom completely drops out(mortgages being a possible exception given the current political situation)...Fix your personal finances because you want to improve your life, not because you want to thumb your nose at the vultures hovering over you...if that means you have to make it an adversarial competition between yourself and the CA's, then by all means, feel free to do so...whatever it takes to get the rope from around your neck, right?

 

In the meantime, if you want to have a part in fixing the global economy, which is in a state of depression, feel free to write your politicians and suggest they stop promoting consumerism as an economic policy (think economic stimulus packages and $600 tax checks that you were urged to spend instead of save, or when you were urged to go out and spend right after September 11th happened) and return our societal structure to a process of production and innovation, investing public funds in hard infrastructure improvements, and new technologies, instead of using OUR money to save banks that, in the realm of free market capitalism, simply need to die. After all, out of all the industrialized nations, our country is almost, if not, dead last in terms of internet connection speeds, and one of the basic elements of a good economy is the speed at which transactions can take place, or more poetically put, "the energy of commerce."

 

I have learned a lot from these forums in terms of how I will go about dealing with my own personal credit situation, and I am deeply grateful to the people who have sacrificed their time and energy to make these forums both possible and rife with information for those who are not quite educated in the realm of personal credit. However, in the end, I fix my credit not with the ultimate goal of having more credit or a higher number on my FICO that I can post in my signature on this site, but rather to be able to get myself to a place where I will never have to be dependent upon credit ever again in my life, because I will have worked for the means to support my desires, which include a home, a business, and a family...things that I will allow no CA to ever take from me...

 

There is an important term that crosses into the financial world that many CA's probably do not recognize...some members here do when they realize why it is that the CA must respect the DV. That term is honor. The law was written in this case to force the dishonorable to be honorable in the transaction, to PROVE that you actually do owe them, which to a CA, you really don't owe the money. Yes they get the debt for pennies on the dollar, and yes, the most they really deserve in payment is pennies on the dollar, but that doesn't mean that a debtor shouldn't remember, and therefore, honor, his or her own debts. Exorbitant interest charges that continue from an OC that knows you are in financial straits and wants to drill you for every penny are completely wrong, but if you have a viable principal debt to an OC, you SHOULD have a plan to eventually repay that debt(preferably to the OC), even if it is not in the immediate future. That is all I am saying. In using the system to effectively escape a debt, you are feeding into everything that is wrong with the whole system...Original credit systems were based upon word of mouth and reputation. All the CRA's are is an inefficient and often inaccurate form of that original system and are grossly inadequate in regards to handling this world's population. We should all act accordingly in understanding that, because you cannot put a price on integrity, and yet so many sell it so cheaply. Good luck to all of you in life and I hope that you are all able to fix your credit problems...

[pryan67]

Well, I can agree with you for the most part, except that they are only criminals when they fraudulently try to get you to pay a debt that doesn't belong to you.

which is the majority of the time....since the CA can't seem to prove their claims, they must be false...

 

 

At very least they are opportunists out to take advantage of the ill-informed and undereducated populace. The issue Mike brought up, and I agree with is more about personal responsibility. While I support and agree with the idea of burning those who would victimize you in this market, the overall system itself does not get fixed in the process of consumers exercising their rights in this situation, it merely stagnates until the next uninformed consumer gets burned twice as bad, simply because the CA's are twice as hungry...it is a symptom of the underlying problem that the credit markets have been so poorly run in this country that these CA's hover like vultures to pick apart honest citizens, simply because there is no other enforcement agent in this situation besides the informed consumer, and the vultures know from the economy that the pickings are slim. Their act of doing so is a sign of desperate times to come, and a much deeper depression than anyone in DC wants to admit. After all, politicians are only good at two things, emphasizing their own "accomplishments" and minimizing their mistakes in the public eye. There has definitely been a lot of minimalization going on when we are calling a downturn that began in 2001 merely a recession, yet in the same breath comparing it to 1929...

which is why I'd fully support ANY candidate that will put more teeth into FDCPA/FCRA....starting with modifying FDCPA so it's 10k per violation...to start...

 

 

The sub-prime mortgage fiasco is a result of this attitude, in which creditors recognized a way to make a quick buck by offering what was supposed to be strictly an investor's tool (adjustable rate mortgages) to an undereducated public, who used it for buying their live-in home, and got caught holding the bag when the rates went up and home values went down with no where else to move to(investors would simply sell at this point and still come out ahead, because they didn't depend upon that home to live in, and therefore could vacate and dump the property quickly). The creditors knew in the end, that even if they did screw up, which they did in a big way, that we as tax-paying consumers would end up holding the bill (hello bailouts)...they KNEW this from the very beginning and proceeded anyway, giving credit to people who would have been better off and much happier without it, all the while making plans for when the bubble did actually burst, which the housing market definitely did. They got their golden parachutes ready, pre-positioned and gave up a few scapegoats, and are now long gone, having moved on to either obscurity, or the next scam to come down the road. The reason this worked...corporate personhood. It's the company's fault, not the criminals running it, after all...at least that's what the people who did it want you to focus on...

there's more to it than a bank "making a quick buck"....reasons that we won't go into here

 

 

It does no person on this board any good to fix their own personal credit score when, on a societal level, we are coming to a society in which you will have to have no less than a perfect credit score to even borrow a dime anyway...all we can hope for is to not owe anybody anything when the bottom completely drops out(mortgages being a possible exception given the current political situation)...Fix your personal finances because you want to improve your life, not because you want to thumb your nose at the vultures hovering over you...if that means you have to make it an adversarial competition between yourself and the CA's, then by all means, feel free to do so...whatever it takes to get the rope from around your neck, right?

that's what a big part of this board is...educating people...both on their rights, and how to use credit wisely...

 

 

I'm all FOR eliminating the adversarial competition...as soon as the CAs begin to play fair....

 

which won't happen...

 

 

as for rope around the neck, it's the CAs that have nooses....when they're dealing with educated consumers...

 

I have yet to run across ANY CA that follows the law...or that deserves a dime...

 

are you aware of any?

 

In the meantime, if you want to have a part in fixing the global economy, which is in a state of depression, feel free to write your politicians and suggest they stop promoting consumerism as an economic policy (think economic stimulus packages and $600 tax checks that you were urged to spend instead of save, or when you were urged to go out and spend right after September 11th happened) and return our societal structure to a process of production and innovation, investing public funds in hard infrastructure improvements, and new technologies, instead of using OUR money to save banks that, in the realm of free market capitalism, simply need to die. After all, out of all the industrialized nations, our country is almost, if not, dead last in terms of internet connection speeds, and one of the basic elements of a good economy is the speed at which transactions can take place, or more poetically put, "the energy of commerce."

 

what happens to an economy when consumers don't spend?

 

I'd be interested in your sources for us being in the "bottom" in terms of internet connection speeds...I'm unaware of any other country that a consumer can get up to 50 mB/s....

 

 

 

 

I have learned a lot from these forums in terms of how I will go about dealing with my own personal credit situation, and I am deeply grateful to the people who have sacrificed their time and energy to make these forums both possible and rife with information for those who are not quite educated in the realm of personal credit. However, in the end, I fix my credit not with the ultimate goal of having more credit or a higher number on my FICO that I can post in my signature on this site, but rather to be able to get myself to a place where I will never have to be dependent upon credit ever again in my life, because I will have worked for the means to support my desires, which include a home, a business, and a family...things that I will allow no CA to ever take from me...

 

no one should be dependent on credit...and I'm unaware of anyone preaching that people SHOULD be....

 

 

btw, how will you buy a home with zero credit?

 

There is an important term that crosses into the financial world that many CA's probably do not recognize...some members here do when they realize why it is that the CA must respect the DV. That term is honor. The law was written in this case to force the dishonorable to be honorable in the transaction, to PROVE that you actually do owe them, which to a CA, you really don't owe the money. Yes they get the debt for pennies on the dollar, and yes, the most they really deserve in payment is pennies on the dollar, but that doesn't mean that a debtor shouldn't remember, and therefore, honor, his or her own debts. Exorbitant interest charges that continue from an OC that knows you are in financial straits and wants to drill you for every penny are completely wrong, but if you have a viable principal debt to an OC, you SHOULD have a plan to eventually repay that debt(preferably to the OC), even if it is not in the immediate future. That is all I am saying. In using the system to effectively escape a debt, you are feeding into everything that is wrong with the whole system...Original credit systems were based upon word of mouth and reputation. All the CRA's are is an inefficient and often inaccurate form of that original system and are grossly inadequate in regards to handling this world's population. We should all act accordingly in understanding that, because you cannot put a price on integrity, and yet so many sell it so cheaply. Good luck to all of you in life and I hope that you are all able to fix your credit problems...

 

 

 

I'm also all for honor...

 

 

but then the problem comes in when the consumer, as far as they know, owes SOMEONE something...

 

but the OC won't accept it...and the CA can't show that they're owed a penny....who do you pay?